NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

rasesh said:
Ncase M1 - TERRIBLE SUPPORT:
Must read: Character limit reached here so couldn't post it.
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I gave you a week of false hope - guilty and I apologize. I did try to help, just couldn't get to the answer you wanted.

I offered you a refund option if you opened the box and made sure there are no other problems. You refused. I wanted to avoid complications *after you open the box. You demanded a refund immediately, you wanted everything your way, on your terms.

I spoke with KMPKT, who resides in Canada. When Canada Post delivered, you had to pay the absurd import fee on the spot - the high import fee should have jump out immediately. If you notify us then, the issue could have been addressed. By paying the wrong import fee, and then trying to challenge it, you have complicated the situation. Even at this point, your can still file a complaint with CBSA.

As Necere said on Reddit, We've shipped many cases to Canada over the past 4+ years and have never had an issue like this. It's also a bad precedence to clean up mistakes made by others and doing so will bankrupt us shortly.


I tried to help you on a problem not of our own doing. You antagonized over email, try to blackmail us, when that didn't work, posted on public forums to extort us. We don't respond well to being antagonized, hustled, blackmail or extorted, and technically it's not even our fault.

We extended an olive brach, you burned the bridge to the ground.
 
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Necere said:
Dan informed me of your situation a few days ago. Here's what I understand of it:

1. Canadian customs charged you an import fee of $101.70 CAD on a value of $550.56 for the package - much more than it should have been.

2. This was apparently the result of incorrectly using Chinese Yuan as the currency to convert from, rather than New Taiwan Dollars, as was clearly indicated in pictures of the labels you sent us ([1], [2]).

3. Canadian customs admitted that it appeared to be a mistake on their part, yet for whatever reason refused to fix it.

4. They also misclassified the package as containing "articles of leather" ([3]), which has a higher import fee than the correct classification as a PC case.

As far as I can tell, all of the available evidence points to your local Canadian customs office as being 100% at fault. Consequently, they are the ones you should seek recompense from.

Now, despite no apparent fault on our part, Dan did offer to try to help you and call Canadian customs to see if there was anything we could do. However, as he is travelling currently, he hasn't had a good opportunity.

I understand your frustration, but it seems to be misplaced; we bear no fault in this, and are under no obligation to help you in this situation. That Dan has tried to work with you to resolve the situation is beyond what is required, and your antagonism towards him/us is unwarranted.

I would also suggest to you that this does not belong on a public forum, and could have/should have been resolved in private. I don't believe, given the evidence, that publicly making accusations against us will go in your favor.
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3) No they didn't. You seem to not know the situation if this is what you believe and or you're trying to show people I'm at fault.

Dan was not traveling 2 weeks ago.
 
wahaha360 said:
I gave you a week of false hope - guilty and I apologize. I did try to help, just couldn't get to the answer you wanted.

I spoke with KMPKT, who resides in Canada. When Canada Post delivered, you had to pay the absurd import fee on the spot - the high import fee should have jump out immediately. If you notify us then, the issue could have been addressed. By paying the wrong import fee, and then trying to challenge it, you have complicated the situation. Even at this point, your can still file a complaint with CBSA.

As Necere said on Reddit, We've shipped many cases to Canada over the past 4+ years and have never had an issue like this. It's also a bad precedence to clean up mistakes made by others and doing so will bankrupt us shortly.

I tried to help you on a problem not of our own doing. You antagonized over email, and posted on public forums to blackmail us - it doesn't make us want to help you or resolve any problem.
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How on earth am I blackmailing you.
Why are you trying to make me out to be the bad guy?
What have I done to deserve such a nonsense accusation?
I have waited and been kept waiting despite you doing nothing which you even admitted after I pointed it out. You were not in Thailand during that time either.

You can hate on me all you want, I did everything in my power to help you & myself but all I received back were lies.

Now you blame me for blacking you which makes 0 sense.
 
rasesh said:
Dan was not traveling 2 weeks ago.
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rasesh said:
I have waited and been kept waiting despite you doing nothing which you even admitted after I pointed it out. You were not in Thailand during that time either.
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I been traveling in Asia since JUN, I'm not in North America, so depending on the quality of my internet access, getting things done varies.
 
wahaha360 Necere I think you guys should just move on from this and let it be. You're never going to make this guy see different than he believes and everyone on this forum knows you are stand up and reliable people.
 
wahaha360 said:
I been traveling in Asia since JUN, I'm not in North America, so depending on the quality of my internet access, getting things done varies.
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I tried everything on my end and we both know that.
I didn't receive any support from your end.
On top of that you tell me things will be done "this week" and instead nothing was.
I was receiving false statements and hope.

Now you have some people here believing it was customs fault.
When have I said it wasn't and it was your fault?

Customs is saying it was your fault.
As such, how on earth does that make it my opinion?

I have no opinion here except in how I was treated.

Either way, you have a-lot of support here and I seem to be the one that looks like the bad guy due to it.
It's alright though.
If you feel that I have been the bad guy despite trying to help you out every step of the way giving you whatever you wanted whenever you wanted it then so be it.

Also, I am being blamed for the motive of making Ncase look bad. This is not my intention at all, I just wanted people to know both my situation and the type of support I was receiving.
I never intended to do anything more.
I love the Ncase M1 & that's why I bought it.

I'll delete my own post as I don't want to receive any hatred. Hope "necere" & "wahaha" can do the same.
Im just a normal average guy & don't want to fight anyone. Just wanted to be treated fairly and not lied to.
Also, being blamed for blackmailing for whatever reason ... that's something I've never done & will never do in my life.
Also would like to apologize if I have hurt anyone in the process. Wasn't my intention. If I have personally hurt you let me know I'll personally apologize to you.

Again, my intention was never to hurt Ncase Rep.
Nor do I want to fight.


Thanks anyways.
 
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Just to clarify this, you would have still had to pay brokerage fees (flat rate) and the GST/PST on the proper price to get your package, so I don't think NCase could possibly owe you 101.07 CAD. The way Canada Post calculates this is a brokerage fee based on service and parcel origin, size/weight + GST/PST based on your province of parcel receipt. From very large amounts of experience importing through Canada post they gouge for these services. I have chosen to use DHL on all of my international shipments when possible as a result.

The fairest way to calculate what NCASE owes you (if in fact they owe it to you, I'm not siding here) is to subtract the GST/PST difference between what you paid and what you would have paid were you charged customs at the actual price. The balance are fees unfortunately. Gotta keep them union lifers at Canada Post paid somehow!
 
KMPKT said:
Just to clarify this, you would have still had to pay brokerage fees (flat rate) and the GST/PST on the proper price to get your package, so I don't think NCase could possible owe you 101.07 CAD. The way Canada Post calculates this is a brokerage fee based on service and parce origin,l size/weight + GST/PST based on your province of parcel receipt. From very large amounts of experience importing through Canada post they gouge for these services. I have chosen to use DHL on all of my international shipments when possible as a result.

The fairest way to calculate what NCASE owes you (if in fact they owe it to you, I'm not siding here) is to subtract the GST/PST difference between what you paid and what you would have paid were you charged customs at the actual price. The balance are fees unfortunately. Gotta keep them union lifers at Canada Post paid somehow!
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Canada post told me after showing them the $123 CAD value that I don't have to pay anything or barely anything at that cost.
Either way, appreciate the reply.
 
While on that topic and living in Canada (Québec) what is the total amount I should expect this case to cost me?

$185 USD now translate to $230 CAD but what else? I just want to know and avoid a hidden fee I wasn't expecting.
 
Rhialto said:
While on that topic and living in Canada (Québec) what is the total amount I should expect this case to cost me?

$185 USD now translate to $230 CAD but what else? I just want to know and avoid a hidden fee I wasn't expecting.
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Shouldn't be much higher then $10 unless what happened to me happens to you.
In that case customs nor ncase will give you the money back.
 
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Rhialto said:
While on that topic and living in Canada (Québec) what is the total amount I should expect this case to cost me?

$185 USD now translate to $230 CAD but what else? I just want to know and avoid a hidden fee I wasn't expecting.
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No more than CAD 11.50 according to CA Custom Calculator

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Rhialto said:
While on that topic and living in Canada (Québec) what is the total amount I should expect this case to cost me?

$185 USD now translate to $230 CAD but what else? I just want to know and avoid a hidden fee I wasn't expecting.
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In practice, if you check the google docs spreadsheet, the dozen or so Canadians that have added their case to the V5 buyers list have mostly paid nothing, while a couple had to pay around $40 CAD. Those were only in Toronto though, so maybe it varies from province to province. That's on top of shipping, of course (which our website tells you when you put in your address).
 
wahaha360 said:
No more than CAD 11.50 according to CA Custom Calculator
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Necere said:
In practice, if you check the google docs spreadsheet, the dozen or so Canadians that have added their case to the V5 buyers list have mostly paid nothing, while a couple had to pay around $40 CAD. Those were only in Toronto though, so maybe it varies from province to province. That's on top of shipping, of course (which our website tells you when you put in your address).
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Unless:

Ncase initial promise: "If the situation is such, and we can’t get you the refund from Candian Customs, we will refund you."

Another Ncase promise: "Don't hold up your build, either you will get a refund from us or from Customs."

Ncase after promise: "Therefore, we must conclude the customs fee you were charged are an error on the part of Canadian customs.
As suggested on the forum, your best course of action at this point is to submit an adjustment request to the Canada Border Services Agency..."

If you get stuck in my situation Ncase will basically just turn away or at-least so it seems very likely so far.
I filled that form and it's a negative.

In which case expect to pay ~$100 on top of the case.
 
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rasesh not taking sides here but the above shipping labels clearly show the unit is not from China and that the currency is correct. So if you agree that that is the case and it is the fault of the Canadians why are Ncase guys responsible?
 
harsaphes said:
rasesh not taking sides here but the above shipping labels clearly show the unit is not from China and that the currency is correct. So if you agree that that is the case and it is the fault of the Canadians why are Ncase guys responsible?
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I can't see your case here.
 
harsaphes said:
I can't see your case here.
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Why am I responsible then?
You know harsaphes, for this sole reason I didn't even open the box yet, just incase something like this were to come up.

I even told Ncase that we can follow what CBSA says & I'll send it to CBSA out of my own pocket but then CBSA will send it back to Taiwan as that is their rule but Ncase will be charged for it.
I obviously would want my Case money back & the import fee.

When I mentioned this to Dan he very quickly replied saying ""If the situation is such, and we can’t get you the refund from Candian Customs, we will refund you.".


Just for 1 minute harsaphes put your self in my shoes & read the following:

I was very professional for the time that I was asked to give in which they didn't do anything. Not my fault. The time was set by Dan himself.
I had to pay for the delivery because if I didn't and sent it back to CBSA & CBSA still said it was not their mistake (which they did) then I would've had to pay another shipping fee for me to get that package back or pay for it to go back to Taiwan.

You have to understand my situation here.
I have been trying to resolve this for a long time, it's not something that just popped up and I asked for a refund right away.
I gave time, I gave proof, I gave responses, I did everything in my power to help Ncase.
Although it's not my responsibility when Ncase says "end of the week" and then doesn't deliver.

On top of that the promises didn't get lived up to at all.
Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. As a customer & not as a business owner.
I don't make money off of this I'm paying for it. Then when asked to pay $100 more for something you didn't buy you can understand how that feels.

Just go back and check my wording and professionalism throughout all this till the last couple days in which promises were broken:
Ncase initial promise: "If the situation is such, and we can’t get you the refund from Candian Customs, we will refund you."
Another Ncase promise: "Don't hold up your build, either you will get a refund from us or from Customs."
At that point you must understand how that feels.

Just for 1minute, give it some thought.
A sincere request.

Thanks.
 
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I can put myself in your shoes but it is not the fault of Ncase. They shipped out your case like they do others..I have two..and everything was done in accordance with the laws. Once the item arrived a mistake was made on that end. The fault lies with the Canadians. ...it's pretty straight forward. You can't accuse someone of lying to you especially when they are trying to help you.
 
Looking at that calculator, I can't figure out any reasonable way for Canada Post or CBSA to have arrived at such a high number. Even on a 500-600 dollar purchase the supposed fees and taxation should have been a fraction of what you paid. Right now the Yuan equals 4.6 TWD. 4.6x 11.50 is a far cry from 101 CAD.
 
harsaphes said:
I can put myself in your shoes but it is not the fault of Ncase. They shipped out your case like they do others..I have two..and everything was done in accordance with the laws. Once the item arrived a mistake was made on that end. The fault lies with the Canadians. ...it's pretty straight forward. You can't accuse someone of lying to you especially when they are trying to help you.
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At this point, doesn't even matter who's fault it is unless it was mine which obviously it's not because I just received the box asking $101.07.
Anyways, Ncase says Customs and customs closed on me saying Ncase, so basically I'm left to just .... yeah.
I never accused anyone of lying. I said promises were broken.

Either way, we should seriously stop arguing my friend.
Trying to make everything right here is the goal.

Thanks for the input though!

KMPKT said:
Looking at that calculator, I can't figure out any reasonable way for Canada Post or CBSA to have arrived at such a high number. Even on a 500-600 dollar purchase the supposed fees and taxation should have been a fraction of what you paid. Someone fucked up hard on the calculations.
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Maybe they don't use that calculator?
No idea, either way let's just try & make this better.
Hopefully Ncase still co-operates with me.
Im just trying to make it work so both parties can be happy.

Thanks for the input KMPKT!

--
Hopefully ya'll can support Ncase & myself aswell as it's not my fault either & customs has closed the door.
Hopefully together we can close this case with both parties being a little happier?

Thanks.
 
If you get a flat tire on your way to pick up a package at the post office will you ask the seller to pay for that too?
 
My two cents..

It seems to me that a fair way to settle this dispute would be to use the calculators provided to determine an agreed upon "fair" customs and brokerage charge based on the true value of the case. Subtract that amount from the 101 CAD to get the amount that has obviously been overcharged in error by either Canadian Border Services Agency or Canada post. Split that amount between you which would be a refund of somewhere in the neighbourhood of 30-40 CAD from NCASE. In this situation you've split the liability which ultimately belongs to a massive lumbering bureaucracy that stopped giving a shit the second they received the customs payment.

So 185 USD is 230 CAD. Putting 230 CAD into the calculator gives 11.50 CAD. Apparently Canada Post charges a 9.00 CAD brokerage fee bringing the appropriate total to 20.50. Subtracting that from the 101 CAD basically gives 80 bucks. Refund of 40 CAD sound fair?

This way NCases isn't paying you to take their case out of their cost of the case, and you're not getting ripped off by the powers that be for the full amount. Not a perfect solution by any means, but in this case no one has to be the bad guy and no one has to get publicly slandered.
 
KMPKT said:
My two cents..

It seems to me that a fair way to settle this dispute would be to use the calculators provided to determine an agreed upon "fair" customs and brokerage charge based on the true value of the case. Subtract that amount from the 101 CAD to get the amount that has obviously been overcharged in error by either Canadian Border Services Agency or Canada post. Split that amount between you which would be a refund of somewhere in the neighbourhood of 30-40 CAD from NCASE. In this situation you've split the liability which ultimately belongs to a massive lumbering bureaucracy that stopped giving a shit the second they received the customs payment.

So 185 USD is 230 CAD. Putting 230 CAD into the calculator gives 11.50 CAD. Apparently Canada Post charges a 9.00 CAD brokerage fee bringing the appropriate total to 20.50. Subtracting that from the 101 CAD basically gives 80 bucks. Refund of 40 CAD sound fair?

This way NCases isn't paying you to take their case out of their cost of the case, and you're not getting ripped off by the powers that be for the full amount. Not a perfect solution by any means, but in this case no one has to be the bad guy and no one has to get publicly slandered.
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That is something I would be okay with & hopefully Ncase can also agree.
I'm losing a bit on my end aswell but it's a good compromise.
Only thing is they don't take $230 as their value, they only take 2960 TWD as the value which is $123 and for that according to my local Canada Post the import charge is nothing.
You can even ask, I have already. Canada Post told me that if it were 2960TWD than the import charge on me is nothing.
In that case it would just be the $101.07 / 2 = $50 both ways.

I dont mind losing the $50 if Ncase can work with me & hopefully they do.

Thanks KMPKT.
 
rasesh said:
Only thing is they don't take $230 as their value, they only take 2960 TWD as the value which is $123 and for that according to my local Canada Post the import charge is nothing.
You can even ask, I have already. Canada Post told me that if it were 2960TWD than the import charge on me is nothing.
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Most likely the 123 CAD valuation the value is the replacement cost to NCases, not the retail price. They most likely (ironically) put that value down intentionally to minimize your customs charges while still reflecting the insurance coverage they would need should something happen to the case in transit. I know when I order products from HDPlex and they come via Hong Kong this is the practice that is used.
 
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KMPKT said:
Most likely the 123 CAD valuation the value is the replacement cost to NCases, not the retail price. They most likely (ironically) put that value down intentionally to minimize your customs charges while still reflecting the insurance coverage they would need should something happen to the case in transit. I know when I order products from HDPlex and they come via Hong Kong this is the practice that is used.
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Makes sense, either way though my import charge will be 0 for this item if it were at the correct price.
Some provinces get charged $40 in Canada & other's 0. Mine is 0.
 
rasesh said:
Wondering why you didn't go with Asus Z370-i strix?
Personal preference or a specific reason?
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The Asrock board has HDMI 4K @ 60hz via the HDMI port (requires 3rd party chip), Thunderbolt 3, and PCI-E bifurcation.

By comparison the ROG Strix has 2x M.2.

Keep in mind that "ROG Strix" aren't true ROG boards - it's a new mid-range lineup by Asus. The "Maximus" line remains the true ROG series.
 
Vittra said:
The Asrock board has HDMI 4K @ 60hz via the HDMI port (requires 3rd party chip), Thunderbolt 3, and PCI-E bifurcation.

By comparison the ROG Strix has 2x M.2.

Keep in mind that "ROG Strix" aren't true ROG boards - it's a new mid-range lineup by Asus. The "Maximus" line remains the true ROG series.
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I wasn't aware of that actually.
In terms of reliability & constant updates is Asrock any good? Atleast compared to Asus? Mostly thinking about the z170 mini-itx boards. So, z170i, z170n, z170 fatal1ty.
Asus has always had a very high success rate with reliability although I don't know too much about gigabyte, msi, and asrock mobo's.
Thanks.
 
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After many, many months of my M1 sitting on a shelf taunting me I was finally able to transfer my components into it. No build log and anything because that's been beaten to death at this point and there really isn't anything standout about my parts list to warrant another one.

Just wanted to give a shoutout for an incredible case. I was worried the build would be difficult because of how tiny the case is, but it ended up being the most pleasant build I've ever done. Kudos for that.
 
MB_ said:
After many, many months of my M1 sitting on a shelf taunting me I was finally able to transfer my components into it. No build log and anything because that's been beaten to death at this point and there really isn't anything standout about my parts list to warrant another one.

Just wanted to give a shoutout for an incredible case. I was worried the build would be difficult because of how tiny the case is, but it ended up being the most pleasant build I've ever done. Kudos for that.
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Well build logs may have been done to death but we still like to see pictures, even if yours doesn't incorporate any new designs.
 
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