NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by wahaha360, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. JTIlla

    JTIlla n00b

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    So after following this thread for more than a year my build is now complete and I've been running it at work for a few weeks now without any problems. I work in VFX for the film industry and I do a lot of 3d work and editing. I absolutely love it and it would never have been built if it wasn't for the wealth of information on this forum so thank you all.
    My build is centred around an Ryzen 1800x and a MSI 1080ti FE with an Accelero xtreme 3 cooler. Quite shocked as how low my temps are using this cooler. Hopefully I can answer any questions anyone else has looking for a similar build. I found the whole build pretty straight forward but I did do a lot of research beforehand. Actually the trickiest part was putting the Accelero cooler on the 1080ti which was a bit fiddly. I also managed to retain the FE backplate with the cooler using nylon bolts which I was pleased about. I'm controlling the MLpro 120 fans with MSI afterburner and they are plugged directly into the gpu while exhausting out of the bottom of the case. I chose the corsair MLpro fans for this build as I've used Noctua fans for years but I prefer the noise of the Corsairs when spinning over 1000rpm. Create more of a whoosh than a hum. Maybe this is due to the magnetic levitation.
    My case fans at idle run at around 600rpm and are barely audible. In fact I can't here them in the office and the case is on my desk.
    My GPU at idle runs at around 24 degrees and at 98% load runs at only 59 degrees.
    Ive OCd my CPU to 4ghz and its stable and temps are also good. If anyone wants detailed benchmarks and temps I can upload them.
    Room temperature was 22 degrees.

    build_begin.jpg
    stripped.jpg

    heatsinks_accelero.jpg backplate_accelero.jpg
    1080ti cooler assembly. Adding the VRM and mosfet heatsinks was a bit tricky. I used thermal glue and you have to be so careful not to have them touching the edges of the surface mounted capacitors.
    The backplate i put on using the original nuts and screws from the FE cooler and some m2.5 nylon bolts.

    ncase_complete.jpg

    Since tidied the cables at the bottom :)

    gpu.jpg






    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  2. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    Very nicely done, where did you manage to fine an original NH-C14?

    The cooler combo you have, Noctua NH-C14 and the Arctic Accelero Xtreme 3 are probably the best combo I have seen for air cooling in the Ncase. Both are able to utilize 2 X 120mm fans and manage to produce some really good temps at low noise levels.

    Glad you are happy with the build.
     
  3. JTIlla

    JTIlla n00b

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    I think I got really lucky with the C14. I went on Amazon UK and there was a company which had one in stock new. I did'nt believe it at first and had to double check with them that it wasn't a C14s which had been listed wrongly. It arrived promptly too.
     
  4. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    I got the same one from Amazon UK! :D It's been a few months and I still haven't installed it as I am doing something else with my M1 now and my new massive air purifier has drowned out the grinding noise from my AIO pump (which inspired the switch to air initially), but I am doing the same air cooling setup as you with a C14 and an Accelero Xtreme III, which I'll get around to eventually. It's the way to do air cooling in the M1. You know, if you'd gotten the EVGA 1080 Ti SC2 instead of the reference design, you could have kept the faceplate and not had to deal with those pesky heatsinks. You would have needed a copper shim though. Just FYI if anyone else is considering it, but your setup looks amazing, well done!
     
  5. icc0rz

    icc0rz n00b

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    Very nice setup indeed :)
    What RPMs are you getting from the ML120 fans when you set the fan control to the min. %?
    I'm running the SC2 bios on my 1080ti FE and the ML120s goes down to 440 rpm when set to min. (0 %).
    I also tested with the NF-f12 and they stop completely at 0 %, but I too prefer the ML120 at higher RPMs.
     
  6. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    More info or link(s) on this (please) , for science...!
     
  7. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    It's hard to find any one source, this is info I've accumulated thru lots of research. Basically, a lot of people have tried to install an NZXT G10/G12 on their EVGA GPUs without taking off the awesome EVGA faceplate. Unfortunately, EVGA's mounting prevents an Asetek pump to be installed because of 4 tabs protruding into the GPU area; the cold plate comes within ~ 2 mm of the GPU. So the way to do it is by using a copper shim. Surprisingly, it hardly affects temperatures and people were still seeing ~ 50C with an AIO installed. So I thought, would it be possible to install an Accelero Xtreme 3 using this method? I remember doing research on this and confirming that people had used an Accelero + copper shim on other cards, but couldn't find anyone who had done it on a new EVGA while keeping the faceplate. So I looked at the dimensions/shape of the Accelero coldplate and concluded it would work. That's my recollection at least, it was a few months ago and I still haven't done it because of my mining project (running my 1080 Ti outside). I don't think I found anyone who had done/documented EVGA faceplate + copper shim + Accelero. I'll definitely do it sooner or later, but my conclusion after exhaustive research was that it would work. It would definitely look better to keep the faceplate and the backplate vs. using the annoying Accelero heatsinks. And the new EVGA ICX faceplate is bananas, so it's definitely worth it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  8. Nahkarankaisija

    Nahkarankaisija n00b

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    This maybe kind of unrelated, but I am experiencing terrible noise coming from my speakers with my Ncase build. I have my PC connected to my receiver and TV both via HDMI, but whenever the GPU is under load I get this horrible noise coming from my speakers, this also happens from my motherboards optical output. Could this be because everything is so tightly packed inside the Ncase that the different components are causing interference to the GPU/Mobo, also the Corsair SFX 600 PSU may be to blame, but at this point I am pretty much out of ideas. Anyone else ever experience this with your SFF builds?

    GPU: Asus GTX 1080TI Strix
    MOBO: Asrock AB350 ITX
    PSU: Corsair SFX 600
     
  9. icc0rz

    icc0rz n00b

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    This isn't an uncommon issue and I believe interference can often happen when multiple devices share the same "ground". I'm no expert on the matter, but I always separate the "ground" of my audio devices(TV and PC) from the amplifier using a "ground loop isolator".
    But before you start purchasing stuff to try and fix the issue, try isolating the cause. Make sure that the noise isn't coming from the receiver it self. Try to disconnect the TV. Double check which combo actually triggers the noise.

    Another option is of course to use a USB DAC (external sound card) and something like AudioQuest's JitterBug. Personally, I prefer the DragonFly for clear audio, though the Realtek chip should be sufficient for most.
     
  10. Dartulius

    Dartulius n00b

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    Anymore heatsinks I need to attach before I put on the Accelero? This is an EVGA 1080 to SC2 if it helps. I think I have my bases covered but should there be anymore put on on the right side of the card?

    I did one of these on a 970 but it's been a while, can't remember! Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  11. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think you have them all covered, looks good.
     
  12. Dartulius

    Dartulius n00b

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    Great! Thank you! I added a few more just because I had the heatsinks and figured I'd use them so here's the final product!
     

    Attached Files:

  13. icc0rz

    icc0rz n00b

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    Isn't it possible to use the faceplate of the SC2 cooler to help distribute the heat? I believe I saw someone do that.
     
  14. Dartulius

    Dartulius n00b

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    I was thinking about doing the same, but due to the tabs that hold it on and the large cylindrical heat pipes over the VRMs on that plate, you'd have to remove the tabs and grind down the pipes to get it to fit. I'm using Akasa thermal adhesive tape with this so I'll be able to remove the heatsinks in case of an RMA, which I'd like to keep as an option.
     
  15. Qrash

    Qrash Gawd

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    FYI Another option to gluing lots of small heatsinks to the graphics card when switching to the Arctic Accelero Xtreme III was posted in June by rfarmer. He posted the photo below that showed small heatsinks on each of the RAM chips, but also a large black heatsink covering the VRMs and other components. This heatsink is the Gelid Icy Vision GTX1070/1080 Enhancement Kit and it seems to me to be a simpler solution, though of course it means another purchase.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    Yes, I was considering this for my 1070 before I got the 1080 Ti. I actually got the Gelid kit, it was $15 from eBay, never used it. This works, but only on the 1070 and 1080 reference PCBs, not the 1080 Ti. Gelid hasn't released a version for the 1080 Ti and neither has anyone else. For the 1070 and 1080, you don't even need heatsinks on the RAM honestly, just the VRMs.
     
  17. ptirmal

    ptirmal [H]Lite

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    Can someone take a look at this and tell me what they think regarding voltage and temps?

    [​IMG]
    Ambient is about 78-80F with these temps. GTX 1070 blower card below.

    This is a stock 3.5Ghz 4770k with a Noctua C12P cooler, using the 140mm fan but mounted about 2" away from the heatsink mounted on the side bracket, heatpipes towards the right, Silverstone ST45SF-G PS.

    I've been running it like this for 4 years. I played around with bumping the multiplier up to get it around 4.0Ghz, it was stable but I decided the elevated temps were not worth it, think it was 85-90c at load. I re-seated the thermal paste earlier this year when I added more RAM so I know that's good.

    My question is, how can I bring temps down and overclock? I know very little about overclocking, I think those voltages being shown are normal, set to auto in the bios; temps seem high to me. I wasn't sure if a small exhaust fan would help, can't really fit another side fan with the current 140mm on the side bracket. When I first built this I ran a NF-F12 directly over the heatsink with PWM and determined the fan was too loud for the temp range, but I forget the exact temps.

    Should I not worry much about the temps? I know Haswell tends to run hot but a lot of you guys are able to achieve much better temps than I've been running on air.
     
  18. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    Have you tried mounting the fan directly to the heatsink? 2" is quite a gap, air needs to blow between the fins. I would try that first and possibly mounting additional fans to the fan bracket.
     
  19. ptirmal

    ptirmal [H]Lite

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    I just checked and it's more like 1".

    [​IMG]

    I can't use the stock fan because it's 140mm and the way it attaches to the C12p cooler would push it out of the case, that's why I tried the NF-F12 fan. I guess I have 2 things I can try. I remember at the time not noticing a difference between using the ultra low noise adapter and the low noise adapter (not sure if I connected directly, as it was so long ago). I guess I should bypass the adapter completely and assess temps that way and also see how it runs with the 120mm attached directly to the heatsink (now to find those attachment clips...).
     
  20. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    That is the first thing I would try. It is a Noctua fan so shouldn't be too loud even at full speed. Try the fan mounted to the heatsink with full speed fans and see if that helps.
     
  21. ptirmal

    ptirmal [H]Lite

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    I actually don't think I ever tried the 120mm on the heatsink directly, I can't remember if they're was clearance issues or if I just figured it wouldn't make a difference.

    Still though, seems most people just mount the fan to the side bracket on the Ncase.
     
  22. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    Are the pipes touching the case? Could be an issue if they are.
     
  23. Chapeau

    Chapeau Gawd

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    Wow.. that C14 box is quite something....
    Nicely done with the build (y)
     
  24. JTIlla

    JTIlla n00b

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    I really wanted a card which had an adequate cooling face plate already to save me from using the mini heatsinks. Good to know for the future. I looked at an MSI gaming X 1080 which I've got which would have been ideal as but of course the PCB is too wide for the N-Case. I wasn't aware of the EVGA 1080 Ti Sc2 in this regard but it was out of stock everywhere when I was buying initially. In the end it was a little more homework but the FE card is running well.

    My fans are set to run at 20% at idle and they're also running at around 450rpm. Their super quiet at this speed so not worried about having them stop. As well they most likely add a little bit of airflow by dragging a bit of air out from the top of the case through the small gaps around the gpu .
     
  25. ptirmal

    ptirmal [H]Lite

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    It's not touching.
    Removed the adapter (kept the fan on the bracket) and max CPU temps were 67c while gaming... That was easy :eek:.

    Now to start looking into overclocking a bit.
     
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  26. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well that is good to hear.
     
  27. ptirmal

    ptirmal [H]Lite

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    Yea, I'm going to work on making my own attachment clips if I can to get the fan on the heatsink directly, but I'm the meantime this is good.

    Also considering to move to an ATX PSU, mostly for noise (ST45SF has some annoying ticks) but I think it could also help with temps slightly. Is the general consensus that you need to use a PCI-E riser to lower the GPU with an ATX PSU? I'm looking at the Seasonic seafocus plus 750w, which is 140mm but modular.
     
  28. Qrash

    Qrash Gawd

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    I think it depends on the PS. Some PS S units have the modular connectors offset slightly so rotating the PS in the ATX mounting bracket can place the PS connectors just beyond the end of a graphics card. The Seasonic Focus Plus 750 has nice flush connectors, but they are in two rows that are fairly symmectically centered. You would almost certainly need to use connectors on both rows.

    Focus-plus-gold-004.png

    Have you considered a Corsair SF600? Many owners have found it to be fairly quiet and some report that the fan rarely comes on. A slightly better fit in the case than an ATX power supply may be one of the SFX-L units from Silverstone and Lian Li.
     
  29. ptirmal

    ptirmal [H]Lite

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    Yea I've considered it but I hear people saying it's louder than the SF450 when it turns on and I've heard the same thing about the SFX-L unit. I'm sure it's probably better than the ST45SF but if I'm going to swap PSUs for quietness I thought I'd just go ATX.

    Are there any issue dropping the GPU using a riser?
     
  30. Putz

    Putz I have a custom title

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    couple changes to mine, new side fan and rotated the cpu fan so its pulling in fresh air and pushing out the back with the 92mm noctua

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  31. sparky1_2007

    sparky1_2007 2[H]4U

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    Well, my M1 should be coming in today. Wasn't expecting it for another couple of weeks, but that's a pretty fast turn around time! I'm pretty sure I ordered right around the beginning of September.
     
  32. Putz

    Putz I have a custom title

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    took longer for mine to go 400KM from northern Ontario to Southern Ontario than it did to go 1000's of KM from Taiwan -> BC-> northern Ontario but all in all much quicker than expected
     
  33. Icte

    Icte n00b

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    Hello!

    I am looking for some tips regarding airflow in the NCASE M1 v5. Will try to keep this post as short as possible.

    Background

    I recently built a computer in this case with the following components:
    • GTX 1070 Founder's Edition (reference cooler)
    • i5 CPU which is cooled by a Noctua NH-U9S with one 92mm fan installed in push configuration
    • A 600W SFX PSU with the fan inwards, taking in air from inside of the case
    • 2 Noctua NF-F12 PWM fans at the bottom of the case
    • All three fanfilters (bottom + side) installed
    The components are currently installed similarly to the setup in this photo (excluding the HDD):
    [​IMG]

    It was inspired by several other users who posted here and I wanted a setup where cool air is taken from the bottom of the case and directed both against the GPU's fan (which blows hot air out of the case) as well as circulated into the case for use by the CPU cooler and the PSU.

    However, I did some reading recently and found out that this is not an optimal setup, especially having read this case study. It also introducted me to Noctua's new 15mm slim fans, Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM, which have received good rating from a couple of reviews (similar airflow to NF-F12 PWM but not as high static pressure).

    My plan is to rotate the Noctua cooler on the CPU 90 degrees such that it blows hot air towards the back of the case as well as buy another intake fan which will be installed on the side of the case, which hopefully will yield cooler temperatures on both the motherboard and the CPU:
    [​IMG]

    Theory

    1. Bottom intake fans
    SInce the NF-F12 PWM fans are 25mm thick there is currently ~2-3mm distance between the bottom intake fans and the GPU which I believe causes some issue for the airflow, even though these fans have a high static pressure. Installing two NF-A12x15 PWM will yield another 10mm distance between the fans and the GPU. However, according to Noctua's specifications these fans have a static pressure of 1.53mm H2O (while NF-F12 PWM have a rated static pressure of 2.61mm H2O) which might decrease the amount of air pulled in to the case due to having to pull air through the installed fan filters.

    2. Side intake fan
    I have narrowed down the choice of the side intake fan to the following three fans:
    According to the test above, this is how it will look like in the case with the slim fan installed:
    [​IMG]

    I also found a picture of how it will look like with the NF-A15 PWM installed:
    [​IMG]

    With the slim fan (NF-A12x15 PWM) installed there will be more distance between the fan and the PSU which will increase the volume of air from which the CPU-fan can draw air from.

    The 140mm fan has a higher rated airflow than the slim fan (yet similar static pressure) but yields 10mm less space between the fan and the PSU, minimizing the volume from which the CPU-fan can draw air from.

    The high-static-pressure fan (NF-F12 PWM) yields similar airflow to the slim fan but has a higher static pressure than both the slim fan and the 140mm fan according to Noctua's specifications.

    Questions

    1. Should I switch out the NF-F12 PWM fans underneath the GPU to NF-A12x15 PWM slim fans in order to increase the distance between the bottom intake fans and the GPU? Will this result in a better airflow to the GPU/throughout the case although the former fans have a higher static pressure?

    2. Which of the NF-F12 PWM, NF-A12x15 PWM and NF-A15 PWM is the best choice for a side intake fan, if you consider airflow to the CPU cooler, the motherboard and the PSU?


    Thank you for your help!
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  34. Putz

    Putz I have a custom title

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    wouldn't over think it too much, the two intakes in the bottom will bring in more air than the GPU can consume, so some will be forced up to the top.

    i did find having the intake on the top on the right fed the cpu cooler which directed warm air to the 92mm exhaust. originally i had the cpu cooler pushing out the top but seems rotating it gave it some fresh air and better path to the rear exhaust fan, slightly better temps (2-3 C)

    right now under 100% cpu load and gpu i sit around 60C on cpu and 70 on GPU (overclocked gpu, stock 7700k, cpu test with aida64 stress test and furmark for gpu) ..the PSU fan i wouldn't account for anything, the sf450/600 they dont seem to need to run too often or at all

    your rear 120mm on the bottom is probably feeding almost all of its air to the top area, the reference cooler is pulling from the front 120mm since its an external exhaust cage fan

    I know they recommend the external exhaust if 150w+ but i figure if you can put some SP fans in the bottom and side and pressurize the entire case then it shouldn't make much difference if it exhausts internal or external, mine is a 180w card and probably closer to 200w with overclocking but until you get into vega cards or maybe a 1080ti i dont think you have much to worry about with bottom intakes blowing right on the card and forcing warm air up and out, i can feel warm out coming out the top (with no top exhaust) and lots of warm air out the rear 92mm exhaust

    personally, just my 2 cents, i wouldn't waste the space on a 3.5" drive in this unit. mount 1 or 2 2.5" ssd behind the front panel if you need something in addition to m.2

    why don't you put a slim 120mm under the front bottom intake to give the GPU space to pull that air in and might help with noise. sometimes have two fans too close make annoying sounds, and leave the 25mm standard on in the back to get more air into the case, move the front bottom 25mm sp fan to the from side panel to feed cpu. i5 and 1070 don't exactly make alot of heat in the first place

    https://s26.postimg.org/5ec5bgivd/File_000.jpg
     
  35. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ok I found exactly the opposite effect in having intake fans below a reference style GPU. I had 2 Noiseblocker NB Multiframe M12-P fans below my GPU running at 1000 rpm which is decent airflow. I recently removed the fan below the GPU intake fan and my load temps dropped by 5C. I think the fan was actually restricting the GPU intake. I still have a fan on the left side because it lowers the temps on my M.2 my 10C.
     
  36. Icte

    Icte n00b

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    Thanks for the response!

    Yeah it seems that the best thing to do is to install another fan on the side intake for the CPU-cooler to feed directly and position the CPU-cooler so that it blows out the air to the back of the case, just like you did. My PSU fan doesn't actually rev up at all, even during load so I am not very worried about it.

    Very impressive temperatures for such a powerful setup! Currently my setup is running stock and I am getting the follow temperatures after ~10 mins under idle and load (tested with Prime95 v26.6 [no AVX2 instructions] and Unigine Heaven):

    CPU (i5-5675C) - Idle: 40 degrees, Load: 65 degrees
    GPU (GTX 1070 Reference) - Idle: 37 degrees (GPUFAN: 27%), Load: 83 degrees (GPUFAN: 55%)

    The NF-F12 PWM fans spin between 300-1200 RPM (idle-load). I am not sure if it is that my GPU isn't getting enough air/being suffocated during load or if it is the fact that the GPU fans go up to only 55%. I am aware that GTX 1070 Founder's Edition does not have the vapour chamber solution like GTX 1080 Founder's Edition, may be that is why I see such high temperatures compared to your card?

    Oh, I do feel warm air coming out from the top of the case (i.e. not only from the CPU cooler and the PSU). Not as strong blow as from the GPU on the back of the case but it is definitely blowing air up.

    No, I have no 3.5" HDD installed in the case (the picture above isn't mine, wrote the question above when I was at work), only an M.2 NVMe SSD on the back of the motherboard. Will be getting a 2.5" SSD later but it'll be installed in the front of the case as I have no ODD.

    Noise-wise I am actually not that much bothered, the GPU makes a wooshing sound when reaching 40-50% fan speed but it's otherwise no annoying vibrating sounds. Yeah I could just get the NF-A12x15 PWM and put it under the GPU fan, and the NF-F12 on the side. But given the temperature data above, do you think it'll do an improvement to the GPU temperatures?

    EDIT: Ah, I see now that you do not have a Founder's Edition card! No wonder why you get such good temperatures :p

    Interesting, I might have to try this out. Do you reckon a slim 15mm fan sitting under the GPU with low RPM would maybe be an even better solution? I.e. it'll feed the GPU with cold air from below the case instead of having the GPU to pull air from the surroundings itself?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  37. doctorbigtime

    doctorbigtime n00b

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    How are people who are water-cooling their M1 monitoring water temperature?
    I understand some ITX boards have a temperature header, which solves that. There are no ITX Ryzen boards with a temperature header yet, so some peripheral is required. Aquaeros look entirely too big to fit in an M1, but maybe someone's modded it? I was thinking of the aquacomputer VISION touch, which can take temperature input from aquacomputer G1/4 stop fittings for VISION (infuriatingly, it does not accept a standard two pin temperature connector). It connects to an internal USB, so with a little bit of hacking it might be possible to react to in software. Has anyone tried something like this? Any other ideas?
     
  38. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have a GTX 980 reference that now hits 75C load with 44% fan speed, it hit 80C before I removed the intake fan. I would try removing the intake fan first before installing a different one. You will get lower temps if you set a custom fan profile using MSI Afterburner, it will be noisier though.
     
  39. Chapeau

    Chapeau Gawd

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    I have the vision cpu block in my desk right now as well as an aquaero. It took a while to get my head around how it all works....

    1) Almost any Aquacomputer component can be controlled with usb (internal or sometimes external).
    2) Aquasuite software can be used to act as your interface. This is great... seems stable and fairly intuitive.The graphics are nice.
    3) As for temperature control:
    - This is where it gets a bit tricky. As you said, you really need a temperature header OR an Aquaero
    - As far as I'm aware, whilst you can certainly use the vision touch unit to tap into a temperature sensor, you can't integrate this with your motherboard headers easily. The temperature will display automatically in Aquasuite, but there's no easy way to connect a fan in the same way and control its speed. Hence the need for aquaero which uses both power input and usb input to drive the IC's which handle the pwm signal to pumps/fans etc..

    4) Aquaero definitely does not fit easily. I'm thinking I'm going to enlarge the front-face frame cutout and slot it in there. But I think it will be a bit of a struggle really.
    5) An interesting point: The Vision CPU block integrates a water temperature sensor. Given enough flow (which is easy to achieve in basically any system running a DDC derivative or better) it should be great as a water temp sensor.
    But ONLY if you choose the versions with a metallic block. The Acrylic and I assume the acetal versions have their sensors on the jetplate which is not really the same thing. The thermal conductivity of the plate makes it a sort of half way solution. The AC ref I spoke to explained that this is done bc the acetal/acrylic acts as too much of a thermal insulator for the probe to work efficiently.
     
  40. sparky1_2007

    sparky1_2007 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,889
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2005
    So, running a 7700k, 1080ti, should I get a 700W SFX-L unit to get the larger fan? or stick with a 600w with the 92mm? Looking for it to be as quiet as possible.