NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by wahaha360, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    Radiator in bottom and side is best! ;)
     
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  2. Pillars

    Pillars Limp Gawd

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    Haha, guess I'm one of the few who values function over asthetics.
     
  3. rfarmer

    rfarmer Gawd

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    One of the few, but not the only. Side mounted FTW. :D
     
  4. Chapeau

    Chapeau Limp Gawd

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    I'm excited... :D:D:D
     
  5. Alexreffand

    Alexreffand n00bie

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    I just went to buy a replacement side bracket with filter and 3.5 drive cage, and they're both out of stock. Any idea when they'll be available again?
     
  6. Pillars

    Pillars Limp Gawd

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    Best to send them an email. They are very quick to respond.
     
  7. Bawjaws

    Bawjaws [H]Lite

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    Just watch those postage costs...
     
  8. triller

    triller n00bie

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    Just got the case, liking it so far though haven't bought an sfx power supply yet so it looks pretty ghetto with an external power supply. Can anyone shed some light on what these holes would be used for?
     

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  9. HardLiner

    HardLiner Gawd

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    Just curious are they going to be updating the case, I know they aren't planning a window version but maybe with usb type C or anything like that?
     
  10. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    Whelp, just like every time I've built up my M1, I ended up scrapping some of my ideas and improvising. Here's the new WC setup. Sorry for potatos.

    Testing clearances with the itty bitty SPC pump and a side radiator installed:
    [​IMG]

    Yep, a bit tight. I ended up getting a couple more mm than this.

    Original plan was to run tubing to the side radiator both underneath and over the rad fans:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So... it worked. But the SPC pump, while powerful enough to move the water through the system once it was filled, just didn't have the head to prime the system with how my loop was setup. So, rerouted 3 tubes and ended up with this:
    [​IMG]

    Res with direct link to pump. Worked like a charm. And I still managed to keep as much airflow space as possible:
    [​IMG]

    So, there you have it. Monoblock, a pair of 240 rads, and SPC pump all inside an M1!
    [​IMG]

    I have some taller feet than this currently on the way to allow for bottom airflow. It's currently sitting on some random items to raise it up. Eventually I'd like to do Chapeau's shroud mod for the fans, but this'll do for now since I'm moving soon, and need to dedicate time now to packing.
     
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  11. rfarmer

    rfarmer Gawd

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    Nicely done, what are your thoughts on that Strix Mono block?
     
  12. Boil

    Boil Gawd

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    Temps...?!?
     
  13. mikep577

    mikep577 n00bie

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    Thnx for your tips I'll defiantly place a thin noctua fan under the gpu. I ended up with not updrading the motherboard and 960pro so the i7 7700k is running on my asus impact viii(z107) and trying to Oc the 7700k above 4.7ghz. Im currently stable at 4.6ghz@1,20v vcore running 72 Celsius while stress testing with prime95.
     
  14. Chapeau

    Chapeau Limp Gawd

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    Awesome!.. Nice work getting everything in. I REALLY like that SPC-60 pump - it's so much quieter and vibration free compared to the DDC whilst still having far more pump than the really mini pumps.
    It's nice to see a new layout in particular for the double rad setup. Nice job...(y)
     
  15. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    Getting bubbles out of it is annoying compared to just a CPU block. For anybody looking to use it, beware - the third fan header is "blocked" with the monoblock installed. EKWB did leave enough room for something to be plugged in though, so just plug into that fan header before installing the monoblock.

    The primary reason I did it is to 'flatten' out the space a bit, hopefully help with airflow from the radiator fan over it.

    Still dialing in fans. The Windows version of Fan Expert doesn't let me change the CPU fan off of T_sensor, so I need to hop into the BIOS to see if it let's me do it there. Right now, water temp is at 27C, which is only matched by my CaseLabs build. My Phanteks build water temp idles at 29C.

    At load, max water temp is 45C, but again, that's with just one fan profile operating correctly, and the weaker FW121s at that. I have a pair of the new A12x15 fans coming which has tested waaay better with 16 FPI rads as well. I expect to get that down closer to 40C once I have both fans operating the way I want.

    For reference, my CaseLabs sits at 35C at load, and my Phanteks at 37-38C at load. And the CaseLabs is still 'silent' at load.

    Thanks! I really didn't want to go the Apogee right, and I've gone the Predator route in the past, and wasn't impressed... not to mention it's a hassle to get it to fit. This already feels way better than the Predator setup. I also think the Predator is too thick for the M1, there's just not enough room in the case for proper airflow of the thicker rad, and the PE is only better than the 240GTS at higher airflows anyways.

    I wish HWLabs made a slim version of their 9 FPI radiator (I have this rad, and it is amazing!). But I'm pretty happy with a pair of 16 FPI rads so far.
     
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  16. rfarmer

    rfarmer Gawd

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    Nicely done, those are probably the best temps I have seen yet in the M1. Keep us updated when you get it dialed in.
     
  17. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    Welp, no t_sensor for CPU in BIOS either. I'm already down to around 40C water temp under load though without it. This is a gaming load only, BTW. My R7 build will continue to be my go to for heavy lifting.

    So... if anybody else has a z270i Strix and has a fan plugged into the AIO_Pump header, can you tell me if it allows you to change the temp source? If so, I'll swap what's plugged into what, and that'll fix that :) With the pump plugged in, for some reason it's all greyed out for me...
     
  18. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    Oh, I should mention, 7700k@4.5, auto voltage, and 1080 Ti overclocked to 2GHz, but undervolted around 35mv.
     
  19. ghostwich

    ghostwich [H]ard|Gawd

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    Trying to find a way to use the thermal sensor for a Z270I is not easy.

    As far as I can tell it's not in the BIOS anywhere, and you can only control the fan header labeled "chassis" (or something) with it - this is easier to see in Fan Xpert 3 in Windows.
     
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  20. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    That's what I was afraid of. I'm already controlling the chassis header that way. Thanks for checking!
     
  21. Nanook

    Nanook Limp Gawd

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    This is how I do it
     
  22. maclem8223

    maclem8223 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Finally pulled the trigger today on an M1. Pretty stoked about it. Will be moving from a 250D and swapping over a Gigabyte Gaming 5, 7600k, and 1070 FE. Trying to figure out what cooler to go for and possibly custom cables. Need to keep 1 3.5" drive and I don't think my h100i is going to work well in the M1. So new cooler it is! Considering the Be Quiet! Silent Loop and looking at Ensourced for some custom cables.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017 at 5:43 PM
  23. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    Even though it's not always in use, I don't regret my M1 purchase, you'll love it. Even if it can be a PITA to get everything installed sometimes... I'd have war wounds from every install if the M1 wasn't so nicely finished. A lot more satisfaction from building one of these than any other case I've owned.
     
  24. maclem8223

    maclem8223 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah I'm looking forward to the build!
     
  25. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    Just finished a 4 hour gaming session. Water temps peaked at 42C, so pretty close to where I'd like to see it. I think my A12x15 fans show up tomorrow, so hopefully I can knock out the last couple degrees and call it good!
     
  26. Pillars

    Pillars Limp Gawd

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    Good water temps, what were your CPU/GPU core temps?
     
  27. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    Highest GPU I've seen is 52. Typically sits in high 40s.

    CPU is hard to say - I have one of those 7700k CPUs that has the random temp spikes, despite being delidded. Kaby Lake is just awful for temps because of that. But even then, highest I've seen it peak is in the 70s for a single core. During gaming, seems to hover in the 40s and 50s.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017 at 10:26 AM
  28. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    I really liked these, but they were a bit short for me. My Uncle took them, made them taller, then printed a set out in his resin printer. Hope you don't mind!

    [​IMG]

    Currently just primed - going to paint them matte black. FWIW, you can't see the fans at normal sitting height.

    Now I just have to clean my desk and rearrange all the cabling... sigh!
     
  29. Mannymal

    Mannymal Limp Gawd

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    I'm still heartbroken that the sandblasted panels fell through. Is there a way to send ours somewhere to have it done?
     
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  30. Pillars

    Pillars Limp Gawd

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    Best temps I've seen for water. I've delidded my 7700K, still it heats and cools instantly with minimal heat output on the HSF. I sit 60-65C GPU/CPU constant on air at 4.6 in game however I can't break 65C+ in stress which is nice. Good to finally see a water setup blow right by though. A+ job.
     
  31. keshley

    keshley n00bie

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    Thanks! To be clear, I've never stress tested the CPU in this loop. CPU was stress tested at it's current settings on Air, so I know there's no issue, I just don't know what CPU temps would be at full load. I suppose I could load up Civ VI to get an idea... that'd basically give me max CPU and max GPU while playing something I enjoy :) Need a second m.2 drive first.

    In reality, all I care about anyways is water temp. As long as it stays in the 30-40C range, I'm providing sufficient cooling for whatever is in the system. I've done enough water cooled systems now, and enough research, that I think I have a pretty good grasp what works in what environments. Low FPI, slim rads are the best way IMO for the M1, and I'm definitely getting better temps then when I had the PE based Predator in my M1. Some of that is just a better designed loop too, although my Predator was cooling a Skylake i5...
     
  32. rfarmer

    rfarmer Gawd

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    Should look good when you paint them. Are you going to switch to 25mm fans with the added height?
     
  33. No Hands 55

    No Hands 55 Limp Gawd

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    WHAT?! NO!!! where did it say this?
     
  34. Boil

    Boil Gawd

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    NCASE M1 version changelog and suggestions thread


    A quick search using "USB-C"...

    And the pertinent post...

    "An update on USB-C for M1."

    A quick search using "sandblast"...

    And the pertinent post...

    "The company that we found to do it bailed on us, unfortunately."

    I check the [H] SFF sub-forum regularly, as well as the forums over at SFFN, this way I can stay up-to-date on all things NCase M1...!
     
  35. p3z

    p3z n00bie

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    Sandblasted panels would have been pretty sweet. I'm thinking of picking up a black panel only kit myself. I got the ODD slot version because I was determined I was going to use the ODD slot...

    Speaking of which. I'm thinking of going to M.2 drives only. I have the Strix Z270i, so I'm thinking of a 850 EVO 1TB and then a 950 EVO or 960 Pro 500/512GB to replace my 480GB and 1TB SSDs. I'm more worried about temps on the M.2 drives (specifically the back). Admittedly, I'm still double-checking some stuff, but I believe the SATA M.2 is only on the front so the 950/960 would be relegated to the back. Have you guys that rear-mounted a higher performance NVME drive had any issues?

    I keep wanting to put a higher capacity 2.5 HDD in the case, but I think I'm just going to do a Synology NAS down the line. Plus I'd love to get rid of the extra SATA PSU cables in the case.

    That's a great board. Definitely don't think it's worth upgrading honestly. I still have to dial in my CPU OC, but until I delid, running 4.5GHz constant has been doing great for me in gaming. I'm at a fairly CPU independent resolution, so I'm more interested in lower temps than a super great OC. I'm running a H75, so there's not really such a thing as a max OC with an i7 on that :D.
     
  36. Chapeau

    Chapeau Limp Gawd

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    No issues for me.. (ASUS Z170i)

    Typical idle temps are around 26 degree for the front mounted 2.5" SSD and 40 degrees for the M.2 on the back of the motherboard. It doesn't really seem to get much warmer than that either. Maybe 45 if the whole case has been subject to a long session of BF1 and the heat soak has saturated the entire case.

    But then again - It's not like I've ever tested to see if the M.2 drive is throttling. I've also read that the throttling issue is somewhat overblown - there just aren't many situations where you can be churning through that much data without pause to throttle the drive.
     
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  37. p3z

    p3z n00bie

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    That was the impression I got, too. What drive are you using specifically? Really do appreciate the response!

    EDIT: Just went to your profile and saw your build on PCPP and that you're using the X400.

    Beautiful setup, btw. Sending a picture of the keyboard+cat to the GF as she's going to go nuts :D.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017 at 5:47 AM
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  38. Qrash

    Qrash Gawd

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    My son's M1 has a Samsung 960 EVO M.2 SSD in the rear M.2 socket of his Asus Z170I Pro Gaming motherboard. During AIDA64 stress test is gets into the 60s C range, but comes back down to the 30s and 40s C. It never gets as warm during normal use.

    I had read about EKBW's new heatsinks for M.2 drives and thought they looked quite good, so I ordered 2 (1 nickel and 1 black) and added it to my son's M.2 drive. This heatsink consists for low longitudinal metal cooling fins on one side of the drive (the side with the controller and RAM chips) and a flat metal back plate. Thermal pads provide the interface between the metal pieces and the M.2 drive. The entire sandwich is held together with two metal clips. After I mounted the assembly back into the rear M.2 socket here's what happened:

    • The computer wouldn't start. The flat metal back plate or the metal clips were contacting the motherboard components. Adding a layer of insulating tape allowed the computer to start. What?
    • The heatsink fins were making contact with the M1 side panel. At first I thought, OK more thermal mass and area for cooling, but given the first issue, maybe not so great.
    So I removed the EKWB heatsink completely, put the Samsung stickers back on the drive and everything is back to normal.

    Today I see that the product page for the heatsink (linked above) inclueds a warning that the heatsink "is compatible with M.2 (NGFF) connectors 4.2mm height". A link is provided to a PDF that shows M.2 connectors of varying heights. I guess the connector on my son's motherboard is less than 4.2 mm tall.
     
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  39. p3z

    p3z n00bie

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    Brilliant! I appreciate the info. We generally keep it at 69-73F in the house, so I see pretty decent temps for the rest of my stuff. Glad to know that I'll be pretty safe with the rear-mounted drive. I really do appreciate all of your input!
     
  40. phazeshifta

    phazeshifta n00bie

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    I see a lot of builds that have used the 240 rad on bottom/92mm rad on side with the pump/res mounted horizontally, but I have yet to see anyone mount the pump vertically. I'm thinking of using:

    https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xres-100-ddc-mx-3-1-pwm-incl-pump

    paired with a:

    https://modmymods.com/barrow-ddc-pump-mounting-bracket-tcbj-ddf.html

    to accomplish what I'm looking for.

    According to EKWB, the pump/res combo is 121mm tall, doing some quick measurements, it seems there's about ~130mm vertical height on the front panel to work with.

    With the pump mounted vertically, it would make filling and draining (just flip the case over and drain out the liquid) extremely easy. It seems like there's no downsides to doing the pump/res this way.

    Has anyone tried this?