NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

DarkForceRising said:
Dumb question: I'm hooking up the front panel header. Power LED is labelled separately per pin (+-). HDD led is labelled +- on a double connector, but I'm reading positive as black, whereas it was white for power. Do I trust the labeling, or the color?

Power switch isn't labelled at all. Does orientation here matter? I doubt it based on what I know of the way the switch works...
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You want the labels toward the center of the motherboard.
 
That's not very clear. Anyway, until I get that sorted, HDD LEDs are disconnected. As is the speaker.

Computer boots to BIOS. Uefi works fine. All devices are detected, all fans spin.

Attempt to install Windows, and all I get is a black screen, sometimes with a flashing cursor.
 
DarkForceRising said:
That's not very clear. Anyway, until I get that sorted, HDD LEDs are disconnected. As is the speaker.

Computer boots to BIOS. Uefi works fine. All devices are detected, all fans spin.

Attempt to install Windows, and all I get is a black screen, sometimes with a flashing cursor.
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The motherboard manual usually has a diagram showing which pins are positive/negative, and sometimes it's on the board too (if there's room). I'd trust the label, but you'll know if it doesn't work (if it's backwards, then the LED wont light up). Polarity doesn't matter for switches--whether you have one wire or the other connected to positive, it's still going to travel through the switch and to the other pin regardless of orientation.
 
NorCalAthlete said:
PERFECT pic dude thanks.

So basically instead of the slim rad and slim fans though...I'm going with normal sized 40mm thick rad (it's actually only 38) and 25mm fans. Like this guy here:


So I think it'll come riiiiiiight up to the fan, but that's it....and I don't see any particular downside to that as long as it's not touching. 90 degree adapters straight down each side, one to the vid card, one to the rad....QD could squeeze right in between over the memory I think.
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Do you already own the EK-PE rad? My first build was actually with the Apogee and EK-PE radiator. The 90 degree fitting from Bitspower would touch the front of the fan so I could only use them as intake. Using a 240 GTS from HWL saves 8mm and it's actually a better rad cooling wise. Here are some crappy pics - http://imgur.com/a/CP05N
 
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mcbirds said:
Do you already own the EK-PE rad? My first build was actually with the Apogee and EK-PE radiator. The 90 degree fitting from Bitspower would touch the front of the fan so I could only use them as intake. Using a 240 GTS from HWL saves 8mm and it's actually a better rad cooling wise. Here are some crappy pics - http://imgur.com/a/CP05
Click to expand...

Bad Imgur link.

Yeah I already ordered the EK PE 240. Haven't ordered the fans yet but I'm going with Noiseblocker 120x25s. I don't see how only using them as intakes would make a difference if it's touching? Did you use low profile fittings? I did look at the HWL ones but then you're doing slim rads. Not sure if anyone has combined slim rads with normal 25mm fans, but generally they have slightly worse cooling right? I mean I wouldn't want a super thick 60mm class radiator because then I'd need fans moving faster to get air through but a normal 40mm rad seems like the best option for a single-rad loop cooling both CPU and GPU. For reference, CPU is an Intel I5 7600K, GPU is going to be a GTX 1080 once I find one with a water block that will fit.

edit - sigh. Ok, looked up the HWL GTS 240 and Black Ice GTS 240 gen 2. Strongly considering ordering one of those and cancelling the EK now. At the RPMs I'm aiming for, and with the bigger full size fans vs slim fan / slim rad, I shouldn't lose more than 1-2 degrees of cooling.
 
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NorCalAthlete said:
Bad Imgur link.

Yeah I already ordered the EK PE 240. Haven't ordered the fans yet but I'm going with Noiseblocker 120x25s. I don't see how only using them as intakes would make a difference if it's touching? Did you use low profile fittings? I did look at the HWL ones but then you're doing slim rads. Not sure if anyone has combined slim rads with normal 25mm fans, but generally they have slightly worse cooling right? I mean I wouldn't want a super thick 60mm class radiator because then I'd need fans moving faster to get air through but a normal 40mm rad seems like the best option for a single-rad loop cooling both CPU and GPU. For reference, CPU is an Intel I5 7600K, GPU is going to be a GTX 1080 once I find one with a water block that will fit.
Click to expand...

So I fixed the link.

To start not all rads are created equal and the thickness of one rad doesn't automatically mean it cools better than a slimmer one. Most thick rads require higher fans speeds to cool as well as slim rads.

You can actually see here that the 38mm EK-PE performs worst than the GTS till about 1300RPM for the fans. http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/10/ek-pe-360-radiator-review/5/

Since you have the EK-PE already though it isn't that big of a difference outside of the 8mm of space you lose. That's why I mentioned the Bitspower fittings they are really tall and if you go with something like I think EK or Koolance they have shorter fittings. A 240mm rad can cool an i5 and 1080 pretty easily. I think rfarmer had great temps doing that in his build.
 
mcbirds said:
So I fixed the link.

To start not all rads are created equal and the thickness of one rad doesn't automatically mean it cools better than a slimmer one. Most thick rads require higher fans speeds to cool as well as slim rads.

You can actually see here that the 38mm EK-PE performs worst than the GTS till about 1300RPM for the fans. http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/10/ek-pe-360-radiator-review/5/

Since you have the EK-PE already though it isn't that big of a difference outside of the 8mm of space you lose. That's why I mentioned the Bitspower fittings they are really tall and if you go with something like I think EK or Koolance they have shorter fittings. A 240mm rad can cool an i5 and 1080 pretty easily. I think rfarmer had great temps doing that in his build.
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I have one of these, works pretty well, but you need to make sure the fitting you connect to it isn't so wide that you can't screw the koolance 90 down all the way.
 
NorCalAthlete said:
Bad Imgur link.

Yeah I already ordered the EK PE 240. Haven't ordered the fans yet but I'm going with Noiseblocker 120x25s. I don't see how only using them as intakes would make a difference if it's touching? Did you use low profile fittings? I did look at the HWL ones but then you're doing slim rads. Not sure if anyone has combined slim rads with normal 25mm fans, but generally they have slightly worse cooling right? I mean I wouldn't want a super thick 60mm class radiator because then I'd need fans moving faster to get air through but a normal 40mm rad seems like the best option for a single-rad loop cooling both CPU and GPU. For reference, CPU is an Intel I5 7600K, GPU is going to be a GTX 1080 once I find one with a water block that will fit.

edit - sigh. Ok, looked up the HWL GTS 240 and Black Ice GTS 240 gen 2. Strongly considering ordering one of those and cancelling the EK now. At the RPMs I'm aiming for, and with the bigger full size fans vs slim fan / slim rad, I shouldn't lose more than 1-2 degrees of cooling.
Click to expand...

I used a Black Ice GTS 240mm with 25mm Noiseblocker fans and it performed very well.
 
rfarmer said:
I used a Black Ice GTS 240mm with 25mm Noiseblocker fans and it performed very well.
Click to expand...

Dude you're awesome I'm so happy there's at least one other person dumb enough to try the stuff I'm going for before me :p. What kinda temps are you seeing? And sorry if I get confused jumping back and forth between Overclock and [H] and whatnot.
 
NorCalAthlete said:
Dude you're awesome I'm so happy there's at least one other person dumb enough to try the stuff I'm going for before me :p. What kinda temps are you seeing? And sorry if I get confused jumping back and forth between Overclock and [H] and whatnot.
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lol, that's cool. I have an overclocked i5 6600k 4.6 GHz at 1.25v and a GTX 1070. I got 65C max temps on the CPU during stress tests, but I usually only saw a max in the low to mid 50C during gaming. 42C on the GPU.

I have also heard EK radiators need to be thoroughly cleaned when you get them, my Black Ice came really clean.
 
mcbirds said:
I've used HWL rads in both of my NCASE builds.

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/qCsJ7P

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/W68Ycf

You can expect even lower temps running just an i5 and lower TDP 1080.
Click to expand...

Nice! Which HWLs are those though? Apparently they have the Nemesis GTS 240, and the Black Ice GTS 240 (which is the gen 2). The gen 2 has a 30+ FPI, the gen 1 only has like 16. I contacted HWL and asked and they said they discontinued the Gen 2 w/ 30 FPI for consumer usage, but if I really wanted one they'd separate it from the next batch they crank out and ship it to me.

Ordering that Swiftech pump/CPU block combo and the noiseblocker fans tonight though! Also, since it looks like you used the same Swiftech MCP35X pump w/ 2 rads, does that mean that in the future (or even now if I wanted) I could theoretically add another HWL lab down below the GPU and have a double rad, no-reservoir, GPU/CPU watercooled loop?

Also why such thick tubing? I was gonna go with 1/2" not the 5/8" stuff....
 
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rfarmer said:
Nice, now get busy building and post some pics. ;)
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Posting from phone now that Windows is finally working. Turns out it didn't want to boot off my slim DVD drive. Swapped in a temporary, and we're off.

Pictures are in rough order, and everything is still a mess. I wasn't actually planning to install into the case yet; was gonna confirm that everything worked before installing. Then I realized that I'd be resting everything on the m.2 drive if it wasn't on standoffs. PSU still uninstalled. Cabling is ugly.

Installation went relatively smoothly, if slow. I had to backtrack a couple times because again, I wasn't planning on installing stuff, and this hadn't planned out the way to do it.

IMG_20170711_192001.jpg IMG_20170712_125422_01.jpg IMG_20170712_125408_01.jpg IMG_20170711_204921.jpg IMG_20170711_204901.jpg IMG_20170711_215237.jpg IMG_20170711_224958.jpg
 
DarkForceRising said:
Posting from phone now that Windows is finally working. Turns out it didn't want to boot off my slim DVD drive. Swapped in a temporary, and we're off.

Pictures are in rough order, and everything is still a mess. I wasn't actually planning to install into the case yet; was gonna confirm that everything worked before installing. Then I realized that I'd be resting everything on the m.2 drive if it wasn't on standoffs. PSU still uninstalled. Cabling is ugly.

Installation went relatively smoothly, if slow. I had to backtrack a couple times because again, I wasn't planning on installing stuff, and this hadn't planned out the way to do it.

View attachment 30360 View attachment 30356 View attachment 30357 View attachment 30358 View attachment 30359 View attachment 30355 View attachment 30354
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Very nice, looks like it is coming together. Take your time and get it installed like you want, we will be here waiting. ;)
 
Paladucky said:
No OC yet, it idles at 39 during the daytime and 36-37 during night.
Click to expand...

Anything under prolonged heavy game load? (W3, BF1, PUBG)

I'm interested as I also have the U9S and I'm curious what the heat profile would be if I ever stepped up to an OC'd i7 in the future and re-orient horizontal. I'm solid 70's as is.
 
DersTheSwede said:
Anything under prolonged heavy game load? (W3, BF1, PUBG)

I'm interested as I also have the U9S and I'm curious what the heat profile would be if I ever stepped up to an OC'd i7 in the future and re-orient horizontal. I'm solid 70's as is.
Click to expand...

Stays in the high 60s/low 70s playing PUBG, occassionally hits 75.

Idle temps today stayed at 35-36 all day today, when they were at 39-40 yesterday pretty consistently. I have no explanation for the drop, it was the same ambient temp today lol.

Edit: idling at 39 again today. Can't explain it. Played some Siege last night and it stayed in the low 60s.
 
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NorCalAthlete said:
Nice! Which HWLs are those though? Apparently they have the Nemesis GTS 240, and the Black Ice GTS 240 (which is the gen 2). The gen 2 has a 30+ FPI, the gen 1 only has like 16. I contacted HWL and asked and they said they discontinued the Gen 2 w/ 30 FPI for consumer usage, but if I really wanted one they'd separate it from the next batch they crank out and ship it to me.

Ordering that Swiftech pump/CPU block combo and the noiseblocker fans tonight though! Also, since it looks like you used the same Swiftech MCP35X pump w/ 2 rads, does that mean that in the future (or even now if I wanted) I could theoretically add another HWL lab down below the GPU and have a double rad, no-reservoir, GPU/CPU watercooled loop?

Also why such thick tubing? I was gonna go with 1/2" not the 5/8" stuff....
Click to expand...

They're the Black Ice GTS w/ 16 FPI. I would definitely recommend a reservoir for your build but that's me. As for the MCP35X you can easily handle 2 block and 2 rads. Although the bottom rad in the NCASE doesn't get the best airflow. I wen't with 5/8" because of some of the tight bends.
 
mcbirds said:
They're the Black Ice GTS w/ 16 FPI. I would definitely recommend a reservoir for your build but that's me. As for the MCP35X you can easily handle 2 block and 2 rads. Although the bottom rad in the NCASE doesn't get the best airflow. I wen't with 5/8" because of some of the tight bends.
Click to expand...

Thanks, gonna order one today then.

As for the reservoir - I was basically thinking my loop would go like this (keeping in mind the pump is integrated into the CPU block):

CPU out >> GPU in >> GPU out >> Radiator in >> Radiator out >> CPU in.

Minimal hoses and fittings, reservoir is basically my GPU at that point, and if I add another pull fan on the radiator maybe...? So 2 push / 1 pull?
 
hi, guys!

Does the GELID Icy Vision fit below the Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme III? I'd also like to know how many times it is more efficient than the Arctic stock heatsinks? Does it worth to mix/combine them?
I would like to replace a 1070 Founders Edition factory fan, below that I'm planning to put 2x Noctua NF-F12 fans. However most of the people in this thread are using the Xtreme III edition.

sorry for my english
 
linux.alucard said:
hi, guys!

Does the GELID Icy Vision fit below the Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme III? I'd also like to know how many times it is more efficient than the Arctic stock heatsinks? Does it worth to mix/combine them?
I would like to replace a 1070 Founders Edition factory fan, below that I'm planning to put 2x Noctua NF-F12 fans. However most of the people in this thread are using the Xtreme III edition.

sorry for my english
Click to expand...

a02a0d3b8f.jpg


I can't say how much more efficient it is than the Arctic heatsinks, I can say it is much larger and is securely mounted using screws and thermal pads instead of thermal glue.
 
Ordered the GTS 240, thanks again for the links and recommendation! Got the 2x Noiseblocker Eloop 800-1500 rpm PWM fans too, with custom sleeving, and ordered a Heatkiller GPU block + backplate while I was at it. Last things I need to get are the GPU itself, Swiftech pump/CPU block combo, tubing, coolant, and fittings.
 
Can the front panel connectors and the USB connector reach the top left corner of the motherboard?

I am thinking about getting the Gigabyte GA-AB350N-Gaming board for my Ryzen 1700

gigabyte.PNG
.
 
Yes. If anything they're excessively long for me as mine are in the opposite bottom right corner from yours. But they're designed so you can run them around the back of the motherboard and up to that top corner. You should be fine. If you're worried though apparently ASRock just game out with an X370 ITX board for Ryzen.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Gaming-ITXac/index.asp

It's the Ryzen version of the board I bought.
 
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zed011 said:
Can the front panel connectors and the USB connector reach the top left corner of the motherboard?

I am thinking about getting the Gigabyte GA-AB350N-Gaming board for my Ryzen 1700

View attachment 30579 .
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Having already put my ga-ab350n mobo into the Ncase frame, I can safely say that the front panel connectors are easily routed behind or beside the mobo. I have mine tucked behind, and just popping out from the top to get to the headers.

The USB 3.0 connectors are a different story. The length is fine, but I didnt feel comfortable with the bending that would have been necessary if I tried to route it from behind.
 
Thanks guys.So you're saying the usb connector can b reached easily across the top of board? The reason I am looking into the gigabyte board over the asrock ones is because of USB 3.1 ; just need to decide how important 3.1 is to me
 
zed011 said:
Thanks guys.So you're saying the usb connector can b reached easily across the top of board? The reason I am looking into the gigabyte board over the asrock ones is because of USB 3.1 ; just need to decide how important 3.1 is to me
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Will this help?
GA-AB350N ITX cabling in an ncase https://imgur.com/gallery/F6L4o
 

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zed011 said:
Can the front panel connectors and the USB connector reach the top left corner of the motherboard?

I am thinking about getting the Gigabyte GA-AB350N-Gaming board for my Ryzen 1700

View attachment 30579 .
Click to expand...

Before you buy, here's a review you might wish to look at. Seems to be some vrm temperature concerns and some loose (vcore) voltage regulation.

OC3D Video Review

You may be able to sneak some active cooling on your vrms with a slim fan which would help, but it seems like the vrm heatsink is a bit inadequate even for the R5 1400. Just something to consider (not sure any of the other options would be much better...)
 
Are there any decent optical drives still for sale that will fit the NCase? Specifically any non-Bluray drives?

Or is it just the uj265, as expensive as that is?
 
zed011 said:
Thanks guys.So you're saying the usb connector can b reached easily across the top of board? The reason I am looking into the gigabyte board over the asrock ones is because of USB 3.1 ; just need to decide how important 3.1 is to me
Click to expand...

Another option that I've promoted in the past is to use an internal USB 3.0 extension cable. These have a low-profile connector for the motherboard which permits you to wrap the rest of the cable under or along the motherboard to connect to the front panel cable in a more desirable location. In the attached photo I used a 12 cm extension cable to pass under the corner of the motherboard and then connect to the front panel cable below the motherboard where it will be hidden from view by the graphics card. I have purchased internal USB 3.0 extension cables from Amazon and ModDIY. The later site also lists a 20 cm long cable which should be enough to pass under the full length of a mini-ITX motherboard. I hope this helps.

Kamin_M1-cropped2 (Large).jpg
 
DarkForceRising said:
Are there any decent optical drives still for sale that will fit the NCase? Specifically any non-Bluray drives?

Or is it just the uj265, as expensive as that is?
Click to expand...

I did a search on Amazon (USA) in the "Internal DVD Drives" section and used the following keywords: laptop DVD 12.7mm slot SATA. The search found several drives, though not all of them complied with my search terms, so be careful. Definitely get a 12.7 mm thick drive. The thinner 9.5 mm drives will not line up with the disc slot in the M1 top panel. Many of the drives that were listed do not have a front plate. I'm not sure if this is necessary because my Panasonic UJ-265 does have one. Perhaps someone else can respond on that topic.

If you don't want a Blu-ray burner, but still want Blu-ray playback then search for "Blu-ray Combo". These drives combine a blu-ray player with a DVD burner. Good luck!
 
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Yeah, I've looked there before. I had ordered a Siverstone SODO2 (I think) used, and having plugged it in, it's actually the GA31n from the top of your link.

And it refused to read about half the DVDs I tried, including the windows install disc. Seller is allowing me to return it.

I may just get a UJ265. Was debating dumping it entirely. I'm not exactly strapped for cash.
 
Finally finished the Ncase build. Didn't bother tidying up the PSU cables as I've already ordered a set from Ensourced. I realised I'd need them when I tried to mount the 2.5" HDD to the front of the case and the sata power cable wouldn't fit against the side of the chassis.

And I also ordered one of the low profile usb 3.0 extensions from ModDIY, as there was no way to route that neatly.

Then I just have to get an exhaust fan and I think I'm done after that.
 

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Daemonn said:
Finally finished the Ncase build. Didn't bother tidying up the PSU cables as I've already ordered a set from Ensourced. I realised I'd need them when I tried to mount the 2.5" HDD to the front of the case and the sata power cable wouldn't fit against the side of the chassis.

And I also ordered one of the low profile usb 3.0 extensions from ModDIY, as there was no way to route that neatly.

Then I just have to get an exhaust fan and I think I'm done after that.
Click to expand...

Looks really good. I wonder how many more NH-C14 builds we will see?

What are those white fans? I've seen them before and they are very distinctive.
 
New Ncase owner here and i would like some opinions from some H75 owners

this is my secondary HTPC system with a Z270i Strix 7700k delided with the H75 and a 1080 Ti with the EVGA Hybrid kit
(currently i have a 980 AMP while i wait for the 1080 Ti to arrive)

now the problem i am having is the H75 rattles like a motherf*****

I currently have the pump head upside down with the barbs at the top of the case
when i turn the case on its side the rattle disappears and i hear water gushing so i;m guessing i have trapped air?
i leave it on its side for 30mins and then i turn it upright again and the noise is gone for a time but it will return again after 10-15mins

any other H75 and ncase users experience this?
 
Sem said:
New Ncase owner here and i would like some opinions from some H75 owners

this is my secondary HTPC system with a Z270i Strix 7700k delided with the H75 and a 1080 Ti with the EVGA Hybrid kit
(currently i have a 980 AMP while i wait for the 1080 Ti to arrive)

now the problem i am having is the H75 rattles like a motherf*****

I currently have the pump head upside down with the barbs at the top of the case
when i turn the case on its side the rattle disappears and i hear water gushing so i;m guessing i have trapped air?
i leave it on its side for 30mins and then i turn it upright again and the noise is gone for a time but it will return again after 10-15mins

any other H75 and ncase users experience this?
Click to expand...

AIO systems will always have some air in them. Unfortunately, this restricts the possible orientation of the pump block as ideally it should be at the lowest point in the system.
In any water cooling loop, any small bubbles will naturally migrate to the top of the loop. Hence why the noise disappears when you tip your case.

So really you need to find a way of clearing the bubbles from your loop.

In order of effectiveness;
- Try a different radiator position. It MUST be higher than the pump block
- Try different orientations to help the bubbles condense
- Vary your pump speed to agitate any stuck bubbles
- Run the pump for as long as possible ( typically it can take days before the small air pockets are flushed to the highest point)

Asetek ( who manufacture the H75) has a video here that might help.

edit: For the record, I never had an H75 but I had another Asetek product with the same construction.
 
Qrash said:
Looks really good. I wonder how many more NH-C14 builds we will see?

What are those white fans? I've seen them before and they are very distinctive.
Click to expand...

At least one more, sort of. The C14S fits on the new Gigabyte ITX with heatpipes going from right to left. I can mount the 140mm fan underneath.
 

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