NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

[No Hands 55]

I was thinking the same thing, that Kabuto II is much more valuable in my eyes as it fits perfectly over the left 120mm fan space on the fan bracket, which would allow complete usage of the right part. 140mm fans in the Ncase are blocked for a good portion of their increased size so to me it seems wasted. I have yet to see my CPU go over 65°C when 100% loaded with the fan set quite low. I could very well move the entire fan curve down if the noise bothered me but the Kabuto keeps my i5-4670K in check easily.

agreed, i have been trying to find a kabuto, c14, darkrock tf, or phanteks cooler second hand or cheaper but have had no luck. I will probably just end up buying the kabuto even though i was wanting the c14 to mod to fit with the hdd cage

 

[cheesekraft]

this case is not available, but the Lian-li PC-Q10 seems like a direct knockoff. Anyone have any thoughts on this case? I am concerned a bit about its size.

 

[Qrash]

The PC-Q10 is about the same length as the M1, but it's taller and wider. This is how it can have a 120 mm rear exhaust fan. In summary, the total volume is 50 % greater: 19.2 L vs. 12.6 L.

 

[FnordMan]

this case is not available, but the Lian-li PC-Q10 seems like a direct knockoff. Anyone have any thoughts on this case? I am concerned a bit about its size.

"not available" you say... did you even look around?
Quote from ncases.com:

Pre-orders will ship after the next batch is manufactured, around MAY 11, 2016.

 

[MarkRWatts]

So i bought a M1 v5 and hardware (6700K, Gigabyte Z170N-WIFI, 2*16GB DDR4, SSDs M.2 & BX100, SX500 LG) and all i need now is the watercooling and the graphic card.
For the GPU I'm waiting the next polaris or pascal generation but as they'll probably use more or less the same ammout of power than current high end gpus, i think i can already begin planning the wc.

I'm thinking about either a full EK wc with EVO wb for CPU, the compatible full cover EK GPU wb when available, a DCC and one or two radiators and consider options.

Does EK-Coolstream 38mm thick PE radiators fit in the upper slot or do i need 26mm SE radiators instead? (for use with 25mm fans) And does it make a big difference for cooling?
Does is worth putting a second 240mm radiator under the graphic card with 12mm fans?
Does the EK-XLC 240 Predator with pump included fit in the M1?
Is it possible to set a 120mm radiator + DCC + needed tubing under the graphic card (with full cover wb)?
About the pump, is it best to go for an Apogee Drive 2 (or a predator if it fits) or a separate DCC with EK top? (dont know if it fit, inlet seems to be on top)
Any insight about the best or a better choice?

There's only enough space for something like a CoolStream SE 240 under a GPU with full-cover block (GTX970).
I added a picture of my build with a ruler for scale a couple of pages back.
Problem is, as I'm discovering myself, it's not really enough on its own with 15mm fans to keep the water temperature down enough as it's a really dense fin design and thin fans don't push much air.
It's fine at idle and I can barely hear either the 15mm fans nor the pump (EK Xres D5) but things ramp up to a reasonable about of noise when the gaming starts. It's still not massively loud though.

I'm planning on adding a 120mm CoolStream PE and Noctua 25mm fan across from the CPU (I have the Supremacy MX block on an i5-6600K) as, based on some measurements with a ruler, it should fit just fine (~63mm).
I'll need to switch to soft tubing for the two links into this radiator simply to allow me to remove the side panel.

Depending on how you go with the pump, you would probably be able to fit a pair of 240mm radiators in the case although it'll be a little cramped; a thin one on the bottom and a thicker one on the side.

Hope this helps!

 

[cheesekraft]

"not available" you say... did you even look around?
Quote from ncases.com:

sorry I suppose I should have said not available "now". I don't have a computer as I just sold mine, so waiting until may is not really feasible.

 

[MarkRWatts]

Which fan would people go for, for a single 120mm radiator on the side of the M1 (in addition to a 240 on the floor)?

• NF-F12 PWM
  
• NF-F12 industrialPPC-2000 PWM

Is it a case of "either will do the job" and I have to choose between noise and performance?

 

[No Hands 55]

Which fan would people go for, for a single 120mm radiator on the side of the M1 (in addition to a 240 on the floor)?

• NF-F12 PWM
  
• NF-F12 industrialPPC-2000 PWM

Is it a case of "either will do the job" and I have to choose between noise and performance?

Pretty much, the industrial will push more air and be louder. But they are both good and not that loud. It is just personal preference at that point.

sorry I suppose I should have said not available "now". I don't have a computer as I just sold mine, so waiting until may is not really feasible.

You can do what i did and fashion a badass cardboard box case until it arrives. It was well worth it, there is not much better than the M1. It is worth the wait

 

[yoyo0221]

To answer your question, the rear fan is intake while the 15mm's are exhaust through the floor.

Also, some more pictures!

View attachment 446
View attachment 447

As you can see, not a whole lot of space for those poor 15mm's, maybe 8mm at most

Thanks for the pics!! I'm definetely going for another 240mm SE Rad on the bottom now. As far as fans...Get the Industrial PPC's. They look badass and move tons of air!!

 

[Malangyar]

If you are going to get another air cooler and want to get rid of your kabuto let me know!

I will. ;D

I was thinking the same thing, that Kabuto II is much more valuable in my eyes as it fits perfectly over the left 120mm fan space on the fan bracket, which would allow complete usage of the right part. 140mm fans in the Ncase are blocked for a good portion of their increased size so to me it seems wasted. I have yet to see my CPU go over 65°C when 100% loaded with the fan set quite low. I could very well move the entire fan curve down if the noise bothered me but the Kabuto keeps my i5-4670K in check easily.

What are your idle temps? I'm getting around 50-53 C idle with an i7-4790K. GPU is GTX 980. I've set it to silent mode in the bios, not overclocking or anything. Just thinking it's a bit high for idle?

 

[Gandergray]

Does is worth putting a second 240mm radiator under the graphic card with 12mm fans?
. . .
Is it possible to set a 120mm radiator + DCC + needed tubing under the graphic card (with full cover wb)?

Depending on how you go with the pump, you would probably be able to fit a pair of 240mm radiators in the case although it'll be a little cramped; a thin one on the bottom and a thicker one on the side.

For my dual 240mm radiator build, I used a 27mm radiator in the bottom of the case, under the GPU. See Posts 14851 and 14852. Specifically, I used the Darkside LP240 Extra Slim radiator (27.5mm thick). As an alternative, the Magicool G2 Slim 240mm radiator (27mm thick) is available.

 

[Phuncz]

What are your idle temps? I'm getting around 50-53 C idle with an i7-4790K. GPU is GTX 980. I've set it to silent mode in the bios, not overclocking or anything. Just thinking it's a bit high for idle?

Mine's at 39-41°C with about 21°C ambient, Noctua NF-F12 fan at 550rpm with Ncase V5 dust filter. My i5-4670K runs at 1.15V all the time.

 

[ILikeVoltron]

Hey guys, am I crazy or is there no way to get a noctua nh-c14 + any sort of GPU in there?

It might be hard to tell but it looks like there is just no room for the virtual of a GPU, it would just run into the fan.

Edit: it looks like you can slide those fans down, I think that'll give enough clearance... ignore this

 

[XelNika]

You pointed it the wrong way. You will almost certainly need a PCIe extension for that orientation. The proper orientation, once you realise that your card won't fit, is towards the PSU and without the bottom fan.

 

[inchikiboze]

You will almost certainly need a PCIe extension for that orientation.

Hold on hold on, does that mean that with an extension or riser cable and a graphics card in the bottom two slots, you could orient the C14 with the heat pipes facing up and get the bottom 140 mm fan to fit? I hadn't thought of that. I'll eyeball it later on my mobo (ASRock X99E-ITX/AC) and sift through the thread, but has anyone tried this? Could potentally offer better cooling on the CPU and GPU, better clearance for SFX-L power supplies. Sounds too good to be true.

 

[ILikeVoltron]

You pointed it the wrong way. You will almost certainly need a PCIe extension for that orientation. The proper orientation, once you realise that your card won't fit, is towards the PSU and without the bottom fan.

You were absolutely correct, I took a look at some pictures and saw people were mounting it 90 degrees counter-clockwise to what I had pictured there. After I did that, I was able (with some difficulty) slot in the GPU. You really don't have much clearance on the PSU cables, but it works. I also put in a 120mm fan on the bottom of the case but I'm struggling to figure out what else to do for cooling, do people have luck moounting a 80mm fan on the rear for exhaust?

 

[ILikeVoltron]

Hold on hold on, does that mean that with an extension or riser cable and a graphics card in the bottom two slots, you could orient the C14 with the heat pipes facing up and get the bottom 140 mm fan to fit? I hadn't thought of that. I'll eyeball it later on my mobo (ASRock X99E-ITX/AC) and sift through the thread, but has anyone tried this? Could potentally offer better cooling on the CPU and GPU, better clearance for SFX-L power supplies. Sounds too good to be true.

I don't see how you'd fit a fan on the bottom of this case if you put the GPU any lower than the very top slot. There's almost no clearance between the GPU and a Noctua NF-F12 120mm fan. Like, I'm not even 100% sure I can fit the dust filter in between the fan and the gpu.

 

[Phuncz]

Do you need a casefan below your GPU ? I hope it already has a fan or two. Others have used ducts to achieve having the fans as close to the bottom vents as possible.

 

[XelNika]

Hold on hold on, does that mean that with an extension or riser cable and a graphics card in the bottom two slots, you could orient the C14 with the heat pipes facing up and get the bottom 140 mm fan to fit? I hadn't thought of that. I'll eyeball it later on my mobo (ASRock X99E-ITX/AC) and sift through the thread, but has anyone tried this? Could potentally offer better cooling on the CPU and GPU, better clearance for SFX-L power supplies. Sounds too good to be true.

No. The heatpipe ends protrude much further from the CPU socket than the heatpipe bends. Being able to fit the C14 in the direction ILikeVoltron did, does not mean that it will fit when turned 180 degrees. It would hit the top panel unless you found a motherboard with the socket right up against the PCIe slot.

EDIT: Unless you mean mounting it like ILikeVoltron did, in which case yes. Maybe not on an ASUS Impact because of the daughterboard. Using the heatpipes for orientation is difficult when we don't specify which part of the heatpipe Regardless, the cooling benefit vs 120 mm fans is negligible and heatpipes perform their worst in that orientation, probably negating the cooling entirely.

don't see how you'd fit a fan on the bottom of this case if you put the GPU any lower than the very top slot. There's almost no clearance between the GPU and a Noctua NF-F12 120mm fan. Like, I'm not even 100% sure I can fit the dust filter in between the fan and the gpu.

inchikiboze was referring to the C14 bottom fan pictured above, not the case bottom. The 140 mm fan doesn't fit on the C14 with an SFX PSU.

 

[ILikeVoltron]

inchikiboze was referring to the C14 bottom fan pictured above, not the case bottom. The 140 mm fan doesn't fit on the C14 with an SFX PSU.

I know this because I tried it first and couldn't get it to fit. Man, I wish I would have just read that you can't do the bottom fan and the piping should be facing the left when I started and the whole mounting of that CPU fan would have gone so much smoother.

 

[XelNika]

So uhh, just pre-ordered a Corsair SF600 in a Danish store for 145 USD. Unknown delivery date.

 

[ILikeVoltron]

Has anybody stuck a Noctua NF-A8 PWM 80mm fan on the rear panel with a Noctua NH-C14 next to it? I'm doing the measurements with this C14 mounted and it's looking like it might be 1-2mm too thick. I've got this 80mm on order, which is a real bummer for me!

 

[MarkRWatts]

Has anybody stuck a Noctua NF-A8 PWM 80mm fan on the rear panel with a Noctua NH-C14 next to it? I'm doing the measurements with this C14 mounted and it's looking like it might be 1-2mm too thick. I've got this 80mm on order, which is a real bummer for me!

All of the 80mm Noctua fans look to be 25mm from their website, but the NF-A9x14 PWM is a 14mm 92mm fan. That may fit better in your build although with a slight noise/performance tradeoff. That said, you probably wouldn't need to run it at 100%.

 

[Mastaba]

There's only enough space for something like a CoolStream SE 240 under a GPU with full-cover block (GTX970).
I added a picture of my build with a ruler for scale a couple of pages back.
Problem is, as I'm discovering myself, it's not really enough on its own with 15mm fans to keep the water temperature down enough as it's a really dense fin design and thin fans don't push much air.
It's fine at idle and I can barely hear either the 15mm fans nor the pump (EK Xres D5) but things ramp up to a reasonable about of noise when the gaming starts. It's still not massively loud though.

I'm planning on adding a 120mm CoolStream PE and Noctua 25mm fan across from the CPU (I have the Supremacy MX block on an i5-6600K) as, based on some measurements with a ruler, it should fit just fine (~63mm).
I'll need to switch to soft tubing for the two links into this radiator simply to allow me to remove the side panel.

Depending on how you go with the pump, you would probably be able to fit a pair of 240mm radiators in the case although it'll be a little cramped; a thin one on the bottom and a thicker one on the side.

Hope this helps!

Nice build, it's good to know even a thin 240 with cramped 15mm fans can cool a full CPU+GPU config! The 120 SE with a 25mm fan should improve the temperature indeed.
In the NCTEKM1 build even swapping one fan from thin to 25mm improve the things a bit more.

I'm very attracted by the predator build as it seems to be possible even if very tight fit.

 

[inchikiboze]

Unless you mean mounting it like ILikeVoltron did, in which case yes. Maybe not on an ASUS Impact because of the daughterboard. Using the heatpipes for orientation is difficult when we don't specify which part of the heatpipe Regardless, the cooling benefit vs 120 mm fans is negligible and heatpipes perform their worst in that orientation, probably negating the cooling entirely.

Thanks for the detailed reply, and sorry for the confusion. Yes, what I clumsily tried to say was to orient the C14 with the bends at the top, as iLikeVoltron had in the photo. So orienting it that way would make the cooler less efficient? I see now, that makes sense. If I can get my hands on a PCIe extension, I will give it a whirl just for fun. There would just seem to be so many potential advantages.

 

[Qrash]

Has anybody stuck a Noctua NF-A8 PWM 80mm fan on the rear panel with a Noctua NH-C14 next to it? I'm doing the measurements with this C14 mounted and it's looking like it might be 1-2mm too thick. I've got this 80mm on order, which is a real bummer for me!

There is not enough room for a 25 mm thick fan. The thin 92 mm fan that MarkRWatts referred to fits.

 

[darrpara]

Has anyone here done a comparison between GPU/Case temps with a reference GPU and multifan GPU (e.g. reference 980 vs an EVGA 980 or something)? I'd been considering only reference/blower GPUs but I know they are typically louder and also hotter than non reference cards.

 

[einmannbude]

Hi there,

I wanted to ask a question, because I encountered weird behavior with my build, which I think is not normal, but maybe I am wrong.
I am watercooling my components, both CPU and GPU. Temps in idle are GPU: 27°C and CPU 32°C with 22°C ambient. When the GPU is under load, it is slightly under 50°C. So that makes me think, that I didn't do something terribly wrong in general. But when I put the CPU under load with Prime95, it gets to 80°C in seconds and only stays at around 90°C, because the fans are ramping up to 100%. This was not a great problem in the past, because I use this machine for gaming only, where CPU load is usually a lot lower, but nevertheless this seems not to be normal behavior to me. Not to mention that the GPU is highly overclocked and the CPU is not at all.

GPU: Titan X, with full EK water block
CPU: i5 4690K, 3.5GHz, not overclocked, with EK Supremecy EVO water block

Side radiator: Magicool G2 slim 240 with 2 NB eLoop fans
Bottom radiator: Alphacool Nexxos ST 30 240 with 2 Sythe Slip Stream slim fans
Pump & Reservoir: Magicool DCP 450

I don't have an explaination for the high CPU temps. Do you maybe?

 

[Mastaba]

How did you managed to fit the pump with two 240mm rads?
Did you tightened the CPU waterblock screws enough?


About AIO integration i saw the Swiftech H220-X which seems to be shorter than the predator, does it fit the M1?

 

[einmannbude]

How did you managed to fit the pump with two 240mm rads?

I cheated. I mounted the pump and reservoir on the outside back of the case.

I checked the CPU waterblock. It seemed as if if was sitting on one of the capacitors near the CPU socket. I repositioned it and now under full load it does not go as high as before, but still 80°C.
Also fascinating: When starting the computer and running Prime95, temps go from 30 to 80 and when I stop after a short time, it goes fairly fast back to the mid 30s. But when gaming for two hours temps are at 50°C and only go down very slowly. Does that tell me, that the CPU block can't transfer the heat to the coolant very well?

 

[Necere]

Has anyone here done a comparison between GPU/Case temps with a reference GPU and multifan GPU (e.g. reference 980 vs an EVGA 980 or something)? I'd been considering only reference/blower GPUs but I know they are typically louder and also hotter than non reference cards.

Non-reference, open cooler GPUs do tend to run cooler and quieter than reference/blower GPUs, however the trade off is that they do not exhaust much/any of their own hot air, unlike blower cards. In a bigger case (or any case with sufficient case fans to set up good intake-exhaust airflow) this isn't typically a problem, however in the M1 the exhaust from an open cooler card can get trapped in the lower section of the case, which results in recycling the hot air. It also causes the rest of the components in the case to run hotter. That's not to say open cooler cards can't work - plenty of people have used them in the M1. Just be aware of the trade offs, and consider lower TDP cards when possible. For these reasons I generally recommend blower cards, and would steer people away from AMD (they have higher TDPs, and their blowers are poor quality compared to nvidia's Titan-style cooler). But something like an open cooler GTX 970 will run well enough.

About AIO integration i saw the Swiftech H220-X which seems to be shorter than the predator, does it fit the M1?

The integrated pump/res on the H220-X rad won't fit in the M1. It's a good idea to check the google docs spreadsheet before posting on the forum when you have questions like these.

 

[ILikeVoltron]

That silverstone PSU 'chirp' or 'chopping' sure is a bother, I also heard a coil wine earlier that was wayyyyyyy louder than it should be. Really hope the corsair psu fixes some of these problems.

I cheated. I mounted the pump and reservoir on the outside back of the case.

I checked the CPU waterblock. It seemed as if if was sitting on one of the capacitors near the CPU socket. I repositioned it and now under full load it does not go as high as before, but still 80°C.
Also fascinating: When starting the computer and running Prime95, temps go from 30 to 80 and when I stop after a short time, it goes fairly fast back to the mid 30s. But when gaming for two hours temps are at 50°C and only go down very slowly. Does that tell me, that the CPU block can't transfer the heat to the coolant very well?

I'll take a swing at this, I'm just assuming here based on what I think might be happening. In some cases, I think you've got the right idea. There is a small metal plate that will soak up the heat that the CPU is giving off, because it's small it depends on the water to cool it off to keep the CPU cool. Because you're rapidly going from idle to 100%, it takes a while for the water to pass enough current over the metal block on the back of the CPU. I also assume this is because both the water in the water cooler as well as the metal block connecting to the cpu that it's not directly transferring the heat, like you'd see in a large air cooling block (more metal "connected" directly to the CPU).

 

[okwchin]

You were absolutely correct, I took a look at some pictures and saw people were mounting it 90 degrees counter-clockwise to what I had pictured there. After I did that, I was able (with some difficulty) slot in the GPU. You really don't have much clearance on the PSU cables, but it works. I also put in a 120mm fan on the bottom of the case but I'm struggling to figure out what else to do for cooling, do people have luck moounting a 80mm fan on the rear for exhaust?

A slim 92mm is the best compromise for the back panel. The noctua 92x14mm is what I have installed and it works great. Ideally a 25mm thick fan would be much more effective. The Noctua doesnt move anywhere near as much air for the same RPM as its thicker counterparts, but it does remain quieter, and is practically silent at double the rpm of its counterparts, maintaining silence upward of 700-1000 rpm which helps. What I really enjoy is the PWM capabilities permitting lower rpm idles, extending fan life and reducing dust.

 

[Hermit2001]

I cheated. I mounted the pump and reservoir on the outside back of the case.

I checked the CPU waterblock. It seemed as if if was sitting on one of the capacitors near the CPU socket. I repositioned it and now under full load it does not go as high as before, but still 80°C.
Also fascinating: When starting the computer and running Prime95, temps go from 30 to 80 and when I stop after a short time, it goes fairly fast back to the mid 30s. But when gaming for two hours temps are at 50°C and only go down very slowly. Does that tell me, that the CPU block can't transfer the heat to the coolant very well?

During your long gaming session, the water is warming up slowly. By the end you have saturated the fluid so that it is all much warmer. The CPU block is doing its job just fine but the heat is not being transferred out of the fluid via the radiator as fast as it could be, so perhaps try:
1) fitting a second fan to the radiator;
2) fitting a higher-flow fan;
3) using a thicker radiator.

 

[ILikeVoltron]

A slim 92mm is the best compromise for the back panel. The noctua 92x14mm is what I have installed and it works great. Ideally a 25mm thick fan would be much more effective. The Noctua doesnt move anywhere near as much air for the same RPM as its thicker counterparts, but it does remain quieter, and is practically silent at double the rpm of its counterparts, maintaining silence upward of 700-1000 rpm which helps. What I really enjoy is the PWM capabilities permitting lower rpm idles, extending fan life and reducing dust.

Yea, I already had the 80mm on order and it was too late by the time I figured out it was going to be too thick. My next order will be the 92mm, does it fit the rear easily, or with pegs or something? I'll poke around this thread and see if I can see somebody else using it.

 

[Qrash]

Yea, I already had the 80mm on order and it was too late by the time I figured out it was going to be too thick. My next order will be the 92mm, does it fit the rear easily, or with pegs or something? I'll poke around this thread and see if I can see somebody else using it.

The Noctua fan comes with their signature chocolate brown soft rubber mounting plugs (pegs?), but I used screws to fasten mine.

 

[Phuncz]

Also fascinating: When starting the computer and running Prime95, temps go from 30 to 80 and when I stop after a short time, it goes fairly fast back to the mid 30s. But when gaming for two hours temps are at 50°C and only go down very slowly. Does that tell me, that the CPU block can't transfer the heat to the coolant very well?

I would try other benchmarking apps, Prime95 uses AVX which unnaturally loads the CPU causing much higher temps than you'll ever see in real use. Don't these CPUs thermal-throttle around 85°C ? So if it does hit 80-90°C, this might be happening. So try to test something like AIDA64 Burnin Test or just encoding a video in HandBrake to avoid this and see what happens. 50°C during gaming is normal, depending on the game entirely. Some games don't make my fans spin up more, audibly.

 

[ILikeVoltron]

The Noctua fan comes with their signature chocolate brown soft rubber mounting plugs (pegs?), but I used screws to fasten mine.

Same, I just mounted it with the metal screws. I figure the rubber feet it already has plus the low RPM will keep it quiet enough.

Anybody know what the options for a 3.5" drive + fan on the bottom of the case are? It looks like you can just squeeze a 120mm fan + drive, but cabling and mounting of the drive is a huge PITA. I can't find a good space to use the rubber grommets to mount and get even the angled SATA power cable to fit. That and I ordered a reverse angled SATA cable.

 

[XelNika]

I would try other benchmarking apps, Prime95 uses AVX which unnaturally loads the CPU causing much higher temps than you'll ever see in real use. Don't these CPUs thermal-throttle around 85°C ? So if it does hit 80-90°C, this might be happening. So try to test something like AIDA64 Burnin Test or just encoding a video in HandBrake to avoid this and see what happens. 50°C during gaming is normal, depending on the game entirely. Some games don't make my fans spin up more, audibly.

A few stress tests compared
No, they throttle around 95-100 C. At least my Haswell does.

 

[einmannbude]

Thank you for all your answers.

1) fitting a second fan to the radiator;
2) fitting a higher-flow fan;
3) using a thicker radiator.

Assuming you mean push-pull configuration with point 1) - there is no room for that. Also not for a thicker radiator. Well the side radiator would be a bit thicker, but I like to use quick disconnectors and the one between CPU block an side radiator is almost touching the PSU. I thought static pressure optimized fans are meant to be used for radiators. I use the slim fans at the bottom radiator as intake and also the side fans as intake and measured by my hand holding above the case, there is a fair amount of air coming out.

I would try other benchmarking apps, Prime95 uses AVX which unnaturally loads the CPU causing much higher temps than you'll ever see in real use.

I see. I noticed the difference in temperatures between gaming and Prime95. I feel comfortable with the 50°C with GTA 5. I just was concerned about future games that might use CPU more than this game does, well knowing that the CPU will never be under the synthetic load like in Prime 95.

Don't these CPUs thermal-throttle around 85°C ?

Mine also did not throttle until now. In Prime95 it stayed at the boost clock of 3.9GHz.