NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

No Hands 55

Limp Gawd
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Nov 4, 2014
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179
Maybe control the radiator fan above the NH-L12 with the CPU temperature and control the other radiator fan with the GPU temperature? Does that make any sense? Oh, and the NH-L12 has a lower 92 mm fan also.

This is sounding like what i am looking for! But how would you set a fan to gpu temp? I have a 3 way fan splitter that I can use for two fans on the rad but would it be ok to hook up a 92mm to a pwm based on 120mm fans?

That'd probably be the way to go, yeah. For the best CPU temps, you'd want the fans exhausting out the side, though that's not ideal for dust control.

Would one fan as intake and one fan as exhaust be stupid? I have them both as intake right now. Dust and fan noise isnt a huge deal for me because it is in a living room tv stand. So its a good 5-10ft away from me and can probably be pretty loud if i was to just set the fans to a flat rpm

EDIT: now looking at the price though it would probably be better for me to try and sell my h105 for an h75, and just another h75 for the cpu
 

Urelure

Limp Gawd
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May 15, 2014
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In my haste to strip down and sell of my Sandybridge PC, I sold off the old HD4870 Gainward Golden Sample for just £15.....on paper the iGPU isn't far behind it, to be honest.

Really? Wow. Never paid any attention to iGPUs so I wouldn't know:)

Looking back, it has been a lot of money for a relatively small gain, but I didn't want to spend money on an antiquated LGA775 ITX board to downsize my Sandybridge. I'd rather take advantage of DDR4, open up the possibility of an M.2 SSD when prices drop etc.

So now I feel compelled to overclock the 6600K but I won't really push it - perhaps see how much voltage is needed for a 4.2Ghz overclock. So I will need some decent cooling but hopefully I won't be generating a huge amount of heat to dissipate.

I did the exact same thing last CPU gen when it made even less sense. I had an ATX i7-2500K system and didn't want to buy a new MB for an outdated socket. I whent with a K-skew processor this time becaus the price difference was insignificant. So I can if I want to.

Perhaps I should sell the Noctua fans on ebay this week (only one fan will have the 140mm mounting point adapters, peering into the bag of "common parts") and then buy either Silentwings 2 or Gentle Typhoon 120mm PWM fans for the side panel to cool the CPU cooler and the motherboard (along with the Arctic F12 PWM 120mm fan on the bottom of the CPU cooler).

then the GPU will look after itself, as and when purchased.

Does that make sense?

Mine came with 2x 140mm fans, both had 120mm mounting holes, and both sets of clips are for 120mm. Strange if yours is different. Anyway... If you want overclocking headroom i guess you'd want to put a 140mm on top where you can fit one (yes, on top of the cooler ;) ). You'll get more air moving across the heatsink that way. If you want to maximize cooling capacity you'd want air to move over as much of the heatsink as possible. An additional 120mm under the heatsink might improve it further, but I don't know.
 
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I have not had them out of the box yet but my understanding is that they are 140mm fans but with 120mm spacing holes - the adapters in the bag enable you to use one of the fans with 140mm fan hole spacing within the chassis.

I assumed that two 120mm fans mounted on the side panel would be better than one 140mm fan mounted directly on the cooler simply due to the close distance of the side panel?
 

makar1

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Apr 17, 2015
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Thanks, already saw your build. really interesting one.
I still need to work on my final design...

I have a similar setup, but with a 980 Ti and i7 6700K. The Noctua C12P has no trouble cooling the i7 and still leaves room for a fan or drive cage next to it.
 
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Cube Rhino

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Jan 7, 2012
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369
I've done a fully aircooled setup. GPU heatsink was replaced out with an Accelero Xtreme III heatsink. I have the 3x PWM fans being slowed down another step using the Noctua Low Noise Adapters.

Idle Temps

  • Ambient noise is louder than computer sitting 1 meter away.
  • CPU - 27C
  • GPU - 29C


Load Temps

  • Fan noise is still barely audible
  • CPU - 60C
  • GPU - 70C

If I run the fans slightly faster, CPU temps stabilize around 55C, and GPU temps stabilize around 60-65C.

I should have specified a gpu and cpu on a slim rad loop that would fit in the bottom space between the 980ti and the floor.
 

Loam

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Jan 29, 2016
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In between the L9x65, L9, and U9S. Current chip cant overclock (i5 4590 + H97) so I'm thinking about being a little conservative and getting the L9x65 or L9. Good idea/bad idea and whats the difference in performance between the 3 coolers?
 
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Jan 29, 2016
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Argh! I built my new rig within a spare case (pending the M1's arrival) and the Asus BIOS isn't detecting the single 120mm PWM fan that I've installed on the NH-C14. I think the fan is working but I'll have to take the motherboard out of the case to access the fan header to double check it is installed.

Has anyone else experienced similar issues with a PWM fan? I've had to set the BIOS to ignore the CPU fan, which I don't like doing! I may have to install one of the Noctua 140mm fans to check the header.

EDIT: It seems some further tinkering with the BIOS might be required tonight: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=65723
 
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XelNika

Limp Gawd
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That's the Arctic F12 you're talking about, right? Did you actually plug in the 3rd pin?
 
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That's the Arctic F12 you're talking about, right? Did you actually plug in the 3rd pin?

From memory it has a 3 pin female and a 4 pin female connector (with a daisy chain male 4 pin as well). I've used the 4 pin connector to connect to the 4 pin CPU header on the motherboard. The 3 pin connector (non-PWM?) and the daisy chain male connector are tied up, out of the way.

Is that the correct way to install?

EDIT: Here are the connectors.

a7b414d42a895b90c829b54350987616.jpg



Now I'm concerned: can a case fan not be used as a CPU fan?

https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/26hs8e/new_cpu_fan_is_not_detected_by_bios/

Note the fix suggested by someone to plug the 3 pin fan connector into the 4 pin male connector! Looking at the photo, I can see how that would link the yellow cable to the fan header. What a strange set up though!
 
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XelNika

Limp Gawd
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Mar 25, 2014
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189
From memory it has a 3 pin female and a 4 pin female connector (with a daisy chain male 4 pin as well). I've used the 4 pin connector to connect to the 4 pin CPU header on the motherboard. The 3 pin connector (non-PWM?) and the daisy chain male connector are tied up, out of the way.

Is that the correct way to install?

EDIT: Here are the connectors.

Nah, mate. Do you see that female 3-pin with just a single yellow wire? That's the RPM signal. Yeah, the wires running from the fan to the female 4-pin don't actually include the yellow third pin. The RPM reading is always taken from the last fan in the chain and if the last fan is an F12 PWM, you have to use the 3-pin cable. Plug the 3-pin into the male 4-pin and it'll work.

Also, it's in the installation instructions for the fan so RTFM :D

Now I'm concerned: can I case fan not be used as a CPU fan?

https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/26hs8e/new_cpu_fan_is_not_detected_by_bios/

Note the fix suggested by someone to plug the 3 pin fan connector into the 4 pin male connector! Looking at the photo, I can see how that would link the yellow cable to the fan header. What a strange set up though!

Stop editing and refresh the page, you dunce :p
 
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Also, it's in the installation instructions for the fan so RTFM :D

Fair comment :D I took so long carefully following the instructions to install the NH-C14 that, when I finally got to the 120mm fan, I assumed that putting a 4 pin connector to a 4 pin header would be sensible, how wrong I was :p
 

XelNika

Limp Gawd
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Mar 25, 2014
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Fair comment :D I took so long carefully following the instructions to install the NH-C14 that, when I finally got to the 120mm fan, I assumed that putting a 4 pin connector to a 4 pin header would be sensible, how wrong I was :p

Well, that Reddit thread didn't help.

That is a chassis fan not a CPU fan. It doesn't spin fast enough to be detected as a CPU fan.

Fans are not all equal, but the bolded part is simply untrue. He might be referring to the CPU fan warning on most motherboards when fan speed is too low, but those can be ignored or lowered. For example, I have to reduce the lower limit on my motherboard and as fans get bigger (140 mm is common nowadays) fan speeds get lower so it'll only get more common.
There is no difference between case and CPU fans in terms of the signal they use. CPU fans are typically PWM though, just like the F12 PWM is.
The idea that they're strictly a case fan probably stems from Arctic Cooling's original sales pitch. They would be mounted as case fans but the built-in daisy-chain meant that you could install them between your existing CPU fan and the motherboard, effectively controlling all your fans with one header. Back then, most boards had uncontrollable 3-pin connectors for case fans.
 
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Thanks for clarifying the internet twaddle - I'll RTFM tonight and I may even try and put the fourth motherboard screw into its standoff... (the NH-C14 realls makes it difficult to get at the motherboard where the motherboard is pressed up against the PSU (in the tower I'm currently using)).
 
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So I'm trying to figure out how you guys orient the fans in this case. Do people usually put 2x120mm fans between the GPU/case?

And then I'll be using a 240mm Radiator for CPU cooling so that's 4 fans total right?

Intakes from Radiator + GPU side and then exhausts through the back? Do people usually put a 120mm rear exhaust fan?

How do most set it up?
 

Urelure

Limp Gawd
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Messages
459
...I may even try and put the fourth motherboard screw into its standoff... (the NH-C14 realls makes it difficult to get at the motherboard where the motherboard is pressed up against the PSU (in the tower I'm currently using)).

I ended up doing it like this: 1 - CPU coller backplate to MB, 2 - MB in case, 3 - CPU cooler on MB, 4 - Fan on cooler. I don't know if you'll be able to get the long screwdriver through the heatsink through the 120mm fan under the cooler, but thing is that with the tight constraints of the M1 (when you get it) and the fact that the io is hard to align properly I think you are going to struggle getting the MB mounted in the M1 with the c14 attached.

So I'm trying to figure out how you guys orient the fans in this case. Do people usually put 2x120mm fans between the GPU/case?

And then I'll be using a 240mm Radiator for CPU cooling so that's 4 fans total right?

Intakes from Radiator + GPU side and then exhausts through the back? Do people usually put a 120mm rear exhaust fan?

How do most set it up?

Depends on what GPU you use. With a blower style cooler I don't think fans are necessary at the bottom. With open air cooler they can, if ramped up, lower load temps a bit, but at the cost of idle noise. They can probably also help push hot air up through the case lowering general case temperature a bit, but most critical components will get their air from the outside-ish anyway. So it is very much a matter of hardware and preference.
This has been discussed to length in these thousands of pages lots of times and there is never one conclusive answer:) A quick look at the picture gallery in the first post (Don't know how statistically representative that is though) shows that there seems to be a tendency towards adding fans everywhere they fit, though I am not sure that that is necessarily the "best way" in every situation. I try to avoid using fans that cannot be controlled by the parameters they are meant to mitigate as the trade off when they are not needed will be added noise. I would really love a proper "out of the box" way of controlling fans from MB headers based on GPU temp: That would in my opinion make this discussion way more interesting. Even better, how hard could it be for GPU manufacturers to add a 4-pin fan header on the GPU itself? You would need software support but again, I can't imagine that would require too much effort.
 
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I ended up doing it like this: 1 - CPU coller backplate to MB, 2 - MB in case, 3 - CPU cooler on MB, 4 - Fan on cooler. I don't know if you'll be able to get the long screwdriver through the heatsink through the 120mm fan under the cooler, but thing is that with the tight constraints of the M1 (when you get it) and the fact that the io is hard to align properly I think you are going to struggle getting the MB mounted in the M1 with the c14 attached.

I hope I don't have to remove the cooler to get it back into the M1, but let's see how I get on. I found a tip on the internet which I used successfully to get the final motherboard screw installed last night:

"There is a simple trick that will hold the screw head against the end of the screwdriver blade. Cut a short length of masking tape and push the screw through this from the sticky side. Push through until the head is flush with the adhesive side. Insert the blade of the driver into the slot in the screw head and fold the sticky ends of the tape up against the blade. This will hold the screw against the blade so you can reach up to start the screw with one hand. After the screw is almost tightened a sharp yank will pull the blade free of the tape."

PWM fan is now being read by the motherboard following the help from XelNika :)
 

Ranza

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Dec 14, 2015
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Have some fast question before start my build with this case....

1/ Will Noctua NH-D9s fits well with the case and still have space for another AIO rad ? How should I mount it and what is the best way to set the fan ( intake, exhaust ) for optimize temperature ?

2/ Based on the MSI Sea Hawk spec, will it fits the same way like EVGA 980ti Hybrid ? At my place there is only MSI available and I hope that I don't need to import an EVGA card for this :).

Thank you all in advance.
 

Urelure

Limp Gawd
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May 15, 2014
Messages
459
I hope I don't have to remove the cooler to get it back into the M1, but let's see how I get on.

It is pretty cramped no matter which order you do stuff in. Remember to plug in all the cables on the MB that will be hard to reach once it's in before installing it. For instance you probably won't be able to plug in the 24-pin cable after installing both MB and PSU if the Cooler is already on the MB. A bit of planning goes a long way though. The joys of SFF:)

I found a tip on the internet which I used successfully to get the final motherboard screw installed last night:

Hehe wow. Not bad. There has been a few issues with alignment in the M1 so if there is a screw you cant get to because of the cooler it might be a good idea not to leave it as the last one in.

Have some fast question before start my build with this case....

1/ Will Noctua NH-D9s fits well with the case and still have space for another AIO rad ? How should I mount it and what is the best way to set the fan ( intake, exhaust ) for optimize temperature ?

2/ Based on the MSI Sea Hawk spec, will it fits the same way like EVGA 980ti Hybrid ? At my place there is only MSI available and I hope that I don't need to import an EVGA card for this :).

Thank you all in advance.

1 - Yes. When you say "another AIO" i assume you mean ONE AIO in the front space on the side bracket.
2 - If the EVGA card fits then the MSI card will as well. They seem, measurement wise, identical. The only thing that could be an issue is if the tubing on the MSI card is significantly harder to bend than on the EVGA one, because i think the bend coming straight out of the card will be pretty tight.
 
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kndonlee

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Jan 12, 2016
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Have some fast question before start my build with this case....

1/ Will Noctua NH-D9s fits well with the case and still have space for another AIO rad ? How should I mount it and what is the best way to set the fan ( intake, exhaust ) for optimize temperature ?

2/ Based on the MSI Sea Hawk spec, will it fits the same way like EVGA 980ti Hybrid ? At my place there is only MSI available and I hope that I don't need to import an EVGA card for this :).

Thank you all in advance.

I'm guessing you mean the D9L? I have the D9L and it appears that there should be plenty of room for a 120mm radiator. Silentpcreview has a similar setup with an aircooled D9L and a AIO watercooled gtx 970.

You will want the extra 92mm fan on the D9L to setup a push/pull configuration to aid in cooling. My build and the silentpcreview build dump the hot air out the back of the case.

One small challenge I foresee is that D9L wants to get its cold air from somewhere, which for me is fed through where the radiator would go. You may need to run the fans at a slightly higher rate due to the air coming in already being warmed up by the radiator setup.

As far the fitment of the MSI seahawk, I'm not too sure about fitment, but glancing at pictures, it doesn't look like there are any weird protrusions that would interfere with that space.
 

No Hands 55

Limp Gawd
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Nov 4, 2014
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...I would really love a proper "out of the box" way of controlling fans from MB headers based on GPU temp: That would in my opinion make this discussion way more interesting. Even better, how hard could it be for GPU manufacturers to add a 4-pin fan header on the GPU itself? You would need software support but again, I can't imagine that would require too much effort.

TOTALLY AGREE! that has been the most frustrating part of all of this. I want to get two aios, but my motherboard only has 2 fan headers. So i either have to just have the fans hooked up to the cpu fan header even though one is on the gpu aio, or set my pumps to run off molex and use the chassis fan for gpu and set it to a consistent decently high speed. none of these are ideal
 

makar1

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Apr 17, 2015
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Reference GPUs have 4 pin PWM headers although they use a different connector. You can get adapters for normal fans easily enough.

My two Noctua F12s are powered and controlled by the fan header on my 980 Ti.
 

No Hands 55

Limp Gawd
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Reference GPUs have 4 pin PWM headers although they use a different connector. You can get adapters for normal fans easily enough.

My two Noctua F12s are powered and controlled by the fan header on my 980 Ti.

Is that for the blower fan? the only thing i would be worried about is connecting a fan to the gpu wouldnt correctly control the rpms because of the different fan sizes
 

kndonlee

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Reference GPUs have 4 pin PWM headers although they use a different connector. You can get adapters for normal fans easily enough.

My two Noctua F12s are powered and controlled by the fan header on my 980 Ti.

I did the same, but the minimum speed from the PWM header appeared to be too fast and had pretty high idle noise, so I ended up hooking the fans up the mobo anyway to control the fans via the Asus Q Control options.
 

WiSK

2[H]4U
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Reference GPUs have 4 pin PWM headers although they use a different connector. You can get adapters for normal fans easily enough.

My two Noctua F12s are powered and controlled by the fan header on my 980 Ti.

Yes. Gelid has provided such an adapter for many years. Should be easy to get in Europe at least.

Even better is the mini-pwm splitter from ModDIY http://www.moddiy.com/products/Mini-4%2dPin-GPU-to-2-x-4%2dPin-PWM-Fan-Adapter.html

If you have an old GPU and a soldering iron (can be a $10 model) then you can make your own in 20 minutes. Remove the old PWM connector, cut the wires, splice to your new fans' wires and solder, wrap with electrical tape.
 

makar1

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I used Maxwell Bios Tweaker to change the speed to a more acceptable level, around 400rpm at idle.
 

Ranza

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I'm guessing you mean the D9L? I have the D9L and it appears that there should be plenty of room for a 120mm radiator. Silentpcreview has a similar setup with an aircooled D9L and a AIO watercooled gtx 970.

You will want the extra 92mm fan on the D9L to setup a push/pull configuration to aid in cooling. My build and the silentpcreview build dump the hot air out the back of the case.

One small challenge I foresee is that D9L wants to get its cold air from somewhere, which for me is fed through where the radiator would go. You may need to run the fans at a slightly higher rate due to the air coming in already being warmed up by the radiator setup.

As far the fitment of the MSI seahawk, I'm not too sure about fitment, but glancing at pictures, it doesn't look like there are any weird protrusions that would interfere with that space.

Oops I mean the NH-U9S >__<....my bad for thinking about D9L too much.
 

lamarao

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Feb 7, 2016
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What do you guys think is the non-blower style GTX 980 Ti with the lowest idle temps to use in the M1? I was betting on the Gigabyte G1 Gaming, but I was looking for other opinions.

I'm basically looking for the card which can hold the Zero-RPM mode the longest.

Is it totally mandatory to place the two 120mm intake fans in the bottom of the case for additional idle cooling when using this type of card?

Btw the rest of my setup will be a 5820k (not OC'ed) with the Noctua NH-C14 and I'll be waiting for Corsair's 600W SFX PSU.

Thanks!
 
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Nox

Weaksauce
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Oct 31, 2006
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Looks like I'm in the same boat as two others, they have not yet got to the uk :(

Nox
 

ranix

Limp Gawd
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Jan 28, 2016
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you might wait a lot for the corsaire 600w PSU.
bew eta is May.
you don't need the 2 intake fan under the GPU.
Many report that their impact on the temp is not so obvious.
At least that my understanding.
 
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Jan 29, 2016
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I wish hadn't spent a couple of days pondering my decision to buy the M1 - I just missed the cut off date and so I have to add a month to whenever you guys in the UK receive yours.

I'm also holding out for the Corsair PSU - I want a quiet PSU as the PSU always seems to be one of the greatest generators of noise in my builds.
 

No Hands 55

Limp Gawd
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I wish hadn't spent a couple of days pondering my decision to buy the M1 - I just missed the cut off date and so I have to add a month to whenever you guys in the UK receive yours.

I'm also holding out for the Corsair PSU - I want a quiet PSU as the PSU always seems to be one of the greatest generators of noise in my builds.

my silverstone sx-600g is completely silent. the only noise is makes is the flutter/chirpy noise when the fan spins up, once its spinning normally there is no noise.

and that noise is far less a click of a mouse or typing. In the enthusiast world of mechanical keyboards there is a name for this:

The McRip Effect
"When a small defect is blown out of proportion or later proved to be illusory/false."

I feel this should be applied to all computer enthusiasts as well.
 

XelNika

Limp Gawd
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The McRip Effect
"When a small defect is blown out of proportion or later proved to be illusory/false."

You should read the McRip page more carefully:

The sound is real but some people have better hearing and are more sensitive to noises.

The chirp is a non-issue because the fan rarely stops again once it gets going. Fan noise and coil whine are bigger issues. Given that you have an H105, I'm not surprised your SX600-G is "silent". The pump noise would definitely rival, if not completely drown out, the sound of the PSU fan.
 
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rokko

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Feb 8, 2016
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I am currently building a Oculus build and preordered a Ncase M1 v5. I have been reading this thread in and out and have a few questions.

1. Does the Silverstone SFX-L 500 have the same issues as the SFX-600?
2. Will the SFX-L 500 work with a full length 970 card like the blower card I have below?
3. Is the EVGA SC Blower style card the best option or is a MSI, PNY or reference lower better for the money?
4. Is it really better to use a blower or is the noise not worth it?
5. I know there is some argument but would you choose the Gigabyte or ASRock ITX board?

Any other suggestions with my build below or should I order and post pictures later this week? :)

Thanks in advance!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-C14 CPU Cooler (Purchased For $45.00)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170N-Gaming 5 Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($84.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Video Card ($334.98 @ Directron)
Power Supply: Silverstone 500W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($94.99 @ NCIX US)
Other: NCase M1 (Purchased For $240.00)
Total: $1279.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-08 20:01 EST-0500
 
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