NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

[Necere]

Hey guys,

I know the below has already been shown that the 295mm width will be a tight fit in the M1 for the EKWB Predator 240, but is there anyone willing to make up a mock-up cardboard version and see if it'd be possible? With 303mm available space, it *might* be able to be done? Maybe slipped in behind the case edges rather than on the radiator/fan mount?

It probably fits lengthwise, but the pump at the end is pretty thick and will offset the rad relative to the mounting holes on the bracket, so it may not be possible to mount it.

Do y'all see any problems with this build?

[...]
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D9L 46.4 CFM CPU Cooler
[...]
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B redux-700 33.5 CFM 120mm Fan (x4)

There's only room for three 120mm fans, since the CPU cooler is tall enough that it blocks the rear half of the fan bracket.

Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB Video Card

Depends which specific model. This one is fine, this one won't fit due to the PCB height.

 

[Carisma]

There's only room for three 120mm fans, since the CPU cooler is tall enough that it blocks the rear half of the fan bracket.

Alright, thanks I'll remove one of the fans. I was curious about that so I figured I would get four and if I couldn't use it I would just use it in another build.

Depends which specific model. This one is fine, this one won't fit due to the PCB height.

It would be the first one you linked...the reference model.

That's good to know the rest of the system is good...thank you Necere

 

[Curiositie]

Just found out about the Cryorig M9, looks like it could be cool for the Ncase.

 

[Carisma]

Just found out about the Cryorig M9, looks like it could be cool for the Ncase.

This one could work as well...

Cryorig C7

 

[Curiositie]

This one could work as well...

Cryorig C7

Yep!
I'm actually looking forward to the C7 so I can move into the A4-SFX when possible.

 

[caycep]

dumb question but i can't seem to find this scrolling back through the pages of builds - what is the cable set people buy to better route things through the smaller itx cases, the Silverstone PPOE-5?

 

[Curiositie]

The PP05-E, yes.

It comes stock with the SX500-LG.

 

[Phuncz]

Just found out about the Cryorig M9, looks like it could be cool for the Ncase.

You could probably remove that black plastic end-cap on the top to gain a few mm, as it's only purpose seems to be to hide the heatpipe's ends.

 

[caycep]

The PP05-E, yes.

It comes stock with the SX500-LG.

thanks!

 

[Urelure]

Just found out about the Cryorig M9, looks like it could be cool for the Ncase.

I don't get how they can claim 33% cooler than stock with stock being claimed to be 99+. What CPU and what environment. That kind of marketing bullshit works well to put me off a company.

anyway the U9S should perform better within roughly the same dimension because more metal is more better. 524g (U9S) vs. 345g (M9). Don't know about pricing though, but it would need to be significantly cheaper to make sense.

 

[XelNika]

anyway the U9S should perform better within roughly the same dimension because more metal is more better. 524g (U9S) vs. 345g (M9). Don't know about pricing though, but it would need to be significantly cheaper to make sense.

Yes, they should've made it more asymmetrical like the U9S. The entire point of the heatsink is that it fits inside the "CPU keep out zone", but it's obvious that the heatsink could be ~10-20 mm deeper while staying within that area. The U9S perfectly utilizes this at a depth of 97 mm with fan.

 

[astheria]

Giving this a shot with 2 AIO Watercoolers (one GPU one CPU), feels like it should be really clean with the only SSD mounted to the motherboard. Any feedback appreciated, can easily return/swap parts when they arrive, still waiting on the case.

PCPartPicker part list

Motherboard: Gigabyte G​A-Z170N-Ga​ming 5 (Purchased For $165.00)
CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For $239.99)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H75 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (Purchased For $74.99)
Memory: Kingston FURY 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory (Purchased For $124.99)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (Purchased For $174.52)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB HYBRID Video Card (Purchased For $749.99)
Power Supply: Silverstone 600W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply (Purchased For $129.99)
Radiator Fan Replacements: 2 Noctua NF-F12 PWM 55.0 CFM 120mm Fan (Purchased For $20.21/ea)
Monitor: Asus PG279​Q 27" IPS 2560x1440​p/165hz Moni​tor
Total: $1978.59

Also, are the cables included in the Silverstone 600W SFX the short set? Or do I need to buy them separately?

 

[geogga]

Hi, due to school and some issues I just finally built my rig a few weeks ago. I have the SX-500LG (SFX PSU from Silverstone) and was wondering if there's a chance they will be selling the SFX accessory for v2 owners? The PSU is causing some issues and I can get it to fit, but barely with some parts being pushed and forced.

 

[Hanakuso]

The PP05-E, yes.

It comes stock with the SX500-LG.

IIRC, its not exactly the same. Some of the lengths are slightly different.

 

[vpr]

Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB HYBRID Video Card (Purchased For $749.99)

If you're interested MSI and Corsair are selling/will be selling (not sure at this moment) a hybrid card they apparently co-developed or something along those. Just another option on the Nvidia side of things I wanted to point out.

• MSI's version
• Corsair's version
• Tom's Hardware Article
• TechPowerUp Article

 

[Qrash]

IIRC, its not exactly the same. Some of the lengths are slightly different.

I don't know iabout the SX500-LG, but the stock cables that come with the SX600-G are not as short as the ones in the PP05-E set, except for one cable and I can't remember which one it is.

 

[Necere]

I have the SX-500LG (SFX PSU from Silverstone) and was wondering if there's a chance they will be selling the SFX accessory for v2 owners?

The SFX bracket (and the other accessories) should be back up on the website sometime next month.

 

[Curiositie]

From silverstone's website:

1 x 20+4pin ATX connector (350mm)
1 x EPS/ATX12V 8pin(4+4) connector (350mm)
2 x PCI-E 8pin(6+2) connector (350mm)
2x PCI-E 8pin(6+2)+PCIE 6Pin Connector (350+50mm)
1 x two (2) SATA 90˚connectors (350+50mm)
1 x two (2) SATA 180˚connectors (300+150mm)
1 x two (2) 4pin +1 x Slimline SATA connectors (300+100+100mm)
1 x two (2) 4pin + floppy connectors (350+100+100mm)
1 x three (3) SATA 180˚ +1 x Slimline SATA connectors (300+150+150+150mm)

1 x 24 / 20-Pin motherboard connector（300mm）
1 x 8 / 4-Pin EPS / ATX 12V connector（400mm）
2 x 8 / 6-Pin PCIE connector（400mm / 150mm）
3 x SATA connector（300mm / 200mm / 100mm）
2 x 4-Pin Peripheral connector （300mm / 200mm）
1 x 4-Pin Floppy connector（300mm / 200mm / 200mm）

IMO those numbers are close enough to not matter for most people, though I'm sure for a couple people the extra 50mm here or there would make a big difference.

 

[Pharnos]

What's everyone's thoughts on ASUS GTX960 MINI or the ASUS GTX960 STRIX? This is to go in with the NOCTUA NH-C14 air cooler...

http://www.asus.com/nz/Graphics_Cards/GTX960MOC2GD5/overview/

https://www.asus.com/nz/Graphics_Cards/STRIXGTX960DC2OC2GD5/overview/

 

[bencho]

Is ASUS the only maker of these mini-ITX cards?
I haven't really looked these little cards but... are they stripped down as far as performance is concerned?

I was looking at getting an EVGA 980 TI into the v4 but... these look like they will provide so much more space!

 

[Sverebom]

What's everyone's thoughts on ASUS GTX960 MINI or the ASUS GTX960 STRIX? This is to go in with the NOCTUA NH-C14 air cooler...

If you plan to use an ATX-PSU, no luck with the GTX960 Strix and probably not with the NOCTUA NH-C14 either (depends on the orientation). And with an SFX-PSU you could use a full-size GPU instead and probably an 120mm AiO water-cooleras well if you can say good-bye to 3.5'' HHDs or switch to a blower-style GPU that won't interfere with a 3.5'' HDD in the bottom.

We need to know more about the planned hardware because the mainboard, PSU and HDDs have a say too in what will fit into the case. The GTX970 Mini will be no problem no matter what you do. The Noctua might conflict with the 3.5'' HDD-mount or an ATX-PSU if it cannot be mounted with the heat pipes facing to the front of the case (which is possible with the popular Intel-plattform motherboards-designs from ASUS like the ROG Impact).

The ASUS GTX960 STRIX kinda makes no sense. It is already large enough to severly limit your options (only good thing is the extra space for cable management), and I would only accept these limitations (like SFX-PSU only) for a build that transfers the available space into performance.

I haven't really looked these little cards but... are they stripped down as far as performance is concerned?

Not at all. Due to the small cooler and reduced power layout (???) they don't do well with extreme overclocking, but within the standard design and typical power and temperature targets they perform as good as the larger cards. They are just louder under heavy loads, but not annoyingly loud. Therefore the mini-cards are a serious option for ITX-builders.

 

[Pharnos]

If you plan to use an ATX-PSU, no luck with the GTX960 Strix and probably not the NOCTUA NH-C14 either (depends on the orientation). And with an SFX-PSU you could use full-size GPU instead and probably an 120mm AiO water-cooler if you can say good-bye to 3.5'' HHDs or switch to a blower-style GPU that won't interfere with a 3.5'' HDD in the bottom.

We need to know more about the planned hardware because the mainboard, PSU and HDDs have a say too in what will fit into the case. The GTX970 Mini will be no problem no matter what you do. The Noctua might conflict with the 3.5'' HDD-mount or an ATX-PSU if it cannot be mounted with the heat pipes facing to the front of the case (which is possible on the popular daugtherbord-designs from ASUS like the ROG Impact).

The ASUS GTX960 STRIX kinda makes no sense. It is already large enough to severly limit your options (only good thing is the extra space for cable management), and I would only accept these limitations (like SFX-PSU only) for a build that transfers the available space into performance.

Good points. My current plan is:
motherboard: Gigabyte Z170N-WIFI
cpu: i5 6600K
cooler: Noctua NH-C14
psu: SilverStone 500W SFX-L

For drives I'm just going to use the space inside the front panel for 2.5" SSD so no need for HDDs on the side panel (so C14 cooler will be fine).

I was thinking of the 960 mini along with a 120mm fan on the bottom-front bringing air into the case without being inhibited by the gfx card. The Strix is about the same price, bit better performance compared to the mini but I'm probably more concerned about the temps/noise generated by the 2, especially with the air circulating through to the cpu cooler.

Was hoping there were some people out there using the ASUS 960 mini with the kinda half/half blower fan to gauge what kinda temps and noise it produces.

Cheers,
Steve.

 

[Sverebom]

Good points. My current plan is:
motherboard: Gigabyte Z170N-WIFI
cpu: i5 6600K
cooler: Noctua NH-C14
psu: SilverStone 500W SFX-L

For drives I'm just going to use the space inside the front panel for 2.5" SSD so no need for HDDs on the side panel (so C14 cooler will be fine).

I was thinking of the 960 mini along with a 120mm fan on the bottom-front bringing air into the case without being inhibited by the gfx card. The Strix is about the same price, bit better performance compared to the mini but I'm probably more concerned about the temps generated by the 2, especially with the air circulating through to the cpu cooler.

Was hoping there were some people out there using the ASUS 960 mini with the kinda half/half blower fan to gauge what kinda temps and noise it produces.

Cheers,
Steve.

Well, you could go full high-end then. With that PSU and no 3.5''-HDDs I would probably prefer a 240 AIO water-cooler (attention: The new Corsair H100i GTX has very stiff hoses that make it hard to use that setup with the M1) for better CPU cooling. But the Noctua would give you more cable management options and cooling will be sufficient.

As for the GPU: The PSU does fit with long GPUs, but it is a very tight fit, especially if you use a GPU with a backplate. Cooling should not be a concern. The case can handle it. Believe it or not, ITX-cases can actually be beneficial for cooling even without many fans because with positive pressure setup the heat quickly dissipates away from the case. With steambox-designs you often don't even need case fans. The positive pressure the components create is enough to create an airflow around all your components. So go all full positive pressure. That's how the case is designed: Fresh air from the bottom and the side panel, the positive pressure does the rest to push the air through the top and rear panel. The fans in the bottom are not strictly necessary, but they can be beneficial to increase the positive pressure.

Anyway, I think that neither the mini GPU nor the GTX960 Strix make much sense when you use an SFX-PSU. You just leave a lot of space unused, which you could use for cable mangagement of course, but I would rather install a larger GPU and use the extra space for performance (warning: The larger STRIX GPUs do no fit without modifications). The Silverstone SFX-L already comes with a flat short-cable kit, therefore cable mangement - while being a tight fit - should be no problem.

Which leaves us with one question: Open-air GPU or blower-style graphics card?

Generally open-air coolers perform better than blower-style coolers, but that is only true for the GPU. The downside is that these coolers blow the waste heat into the case. That is not a problem in gaming enclosures with good airflow and in that environment, I would always prefer an open-air cooler like the Strix cooler. In constricted enclosures that can be a problem. In the M1 the waste heat of the GPU has to get past the mainboard and the CPU, and while the GPU cooler might work flawlessy, the CPU cooler and probably the PSU fan as well might have to work harder to maintain their temperature targets, resulting in a system that is louder than a similar setup with a blower-style graphics card.

The general consensus and suggestion is that blower-style graphics card are preferable for the M1. They can suck in fresh air directly from the environment (probably mount a fan or a duct underneath the GPU fan) and transfer waste heat out of the case without affecting the rest of the system. That doesn't mean that oper-air graphics cards don't perform well in the M1. Many people use open-air graphics cards with the M1 and they have no problems with them, but airflow, cooling and cable management might become a bit more tricky than with a blower-style graphics card.

That's something you probably want to look into before you finalize your setup. Anyway, don't shy away from large performance GPUs. The M1 was design to handle the biggest and most powerful graphic cards, and it can handle them flawlessy if you pick the right components.

P.S.: Many people use ITX-cards with the M1, and the builds are beautiful and perform extremely well. No worries here, but like I said there is also no need to limit yourself to smaller GPUs.

 

[Urelure]

- If you're not aiming for serious overclocks, a 240 AIO is serious overkill, and noisier than a big aircooler with a good fan.
- Shorter cards does make the issue of hot air traps much less of a problem, and i really see the benefit of going with a short one for that. However with a 960 overclocking headroom might be relevant fairly soon, so I'd consider a beefier version for that reason.
- Don't really see how an open air card makes cable management any harder than with a blower.

 

[Sverebom]

- Shorter cards does make the issue of hot air traps much less of a problem, and i really see the benefit of going with a short one for that. However with a 960 overclocking headroom might be relevant fairly soon, so I'd consider a beefier version for that reason.
- Don't really see how an open air card makes cable management any harder than with a blower.

It's the combination of these two factors that make cable management around an open-air cooler a bit more complicated in my opinion. You have enough room for cable management (although reference designs with blowers tend to be more compact than open-air designs), but the open-air coolers blow the waste heat everyhwere, and that is something I would take into consideration to prevent hot air traps around my graphics card caused by cables that had to go somewhere. With a blower style cooler you just have to make sure that you don't obstruct the fan, and a blower-style graphics card tend to be more compact, giving you more space to work with.

As for 240mm AiO water coolers I agree that these are an overkill for most rigs (you could say the same for most PSUs people tend to use by the way - even the 500 watts SFX-L is a bit much for a GTX970 system that barely touches a power consumption of 300 watts). My standpoint is that if you have the room, use it for performance and cooling. But you are right, an air cooler like the Noctua will do fine with every CPU in this case and have some advantages like no water pump (that tend to be audible when the system is idling), one less component that draws power, more room for cable management above the graphics card, an extra slot for a case fan and no risk for water damage.

 

[OTP]

Good points. My current plan is:
motherboard: Gigabyte Z170N-WIFI
cpu: i5 6600K
cooler: Noctua NH-C14
psu: SilverStone 500W SFX-L

Have you considered the placement of the USB3.x header on that board? I emailed Noctua and asked about that and got this in response:

That's actually a good question. The placement of the connector is not particularly well suited for larger CPU coolers, that's for sure, especially since the USB 3.x connectors are usually rather fat/bulky.
I think it should be possible to find at least one position where the connector can be used or it might be enough to bend it carefully, as good as possible.

However, if you have the space for it the NH-D9L or NH-U9S models are probably less troublesome in this regard.

Kind regards,
Andreas Karner
Noctua support team

 

[Pharnos]

Have you considered the placement of the USB3.x header on that board? I emailed Noctua and asked about that and got this in response:

Could always use an adapter, something like: http://www.moddiy.com/products/USB-...er-Adapter-Cable-(Low-Profile-Connector).html

Thanks for pointing that out though

 

[astheria]

Has anyone had great experiences with replacement fans for radiators? Given that you can't fit a push/pull config, I'm wondering what models others have used for this. I am planning a dual AIO 120mm setup (H75 and EVGA Hybrid GPU). Right now I planned on using the Noctua NF-F12 which will do great performance wise, but are so ugly. Any alternatives?

 

[Sverebom]

Right now I planned on using the Noctua NF-F12 which will do great performance wise, but are so ugly. Any alternatives?

Noctua industrialPPC 2000RPM. They have the latest Noctua technology for durable high performance cooling AND ... they are all black (with brown vibration dampeners, that you can remove. Since they are actually designed for server environments they can run with 2000 (or 3000) RPM, which at the same time disqualifies them for silent (non-audible) systems with extra-low RPMs. But with some fan control to get these beasts under control, you will have a quiet and powerful loop. Bit pricey, but you just need two of them so it's not too painfull.

 

[Nobu]

JetFlos push more air at higher RPM (than the NF-P12), but will probably be louder too. I'd guess they're about the same as Noctua's industrial fans, maybe a little quieter (don't know, haven't had one of those).

 

[astheria]

Thanks, I'll test the industrial version for noise (I heard they are significantly louder) and go from there!

On a less crucial note, I've been looking into Silverstone's excellent sleeved cable replacements, but they're super long—all 550mm sleeved compared to the 300mm motherboard cable (supplied with 600W SFX PSU) as an example. Is there any other way to get sleeved cables without doing them myself that are short enough?

 

[Epos7]

Sorry if this has been asked before. I've noticed the power cable going to my ASUS GTX 960 Mini is causing the side of the case to bulge because it sticks straight out of the card into the side panel. Is there are good solution for preventing this? I double there are any PSU cables available with a 90 degree 6 pin PCIe connector. I'm wondering if the cable needs to be zip tied to a point on the case that will pull it away from the side panel.

 

[Sverebom]

Thanks, I'll test the industrial version for noise (I heard they are significantly louder) and go from there!

I know that from a friend that the industrialPPC can be as quiet as the normal Noctua fans. You probably just need to throttle them down (via your BIOS, third party software or fan control). Only problem is that they can't run as slow and silent as the normal fans which disqualifies them for super-silent low-RPM setups. But at moderate RPMs they aren't loud.

Sorry if this has been asked before. I've noticed the power cable going to my ASUS GTX 960 Mini is causing the side of the case to bulge because it sticks straight out of the card into the side panel. Is there are good solution for preventing this? I double there are any PSU cables available with a 90 degree 6 pin PCIe connector. I'm wondering if the cable needs to be zip tied to a point on the case that will pull it away from the side panel.

The DirectCU-Mini designs should fit without problems. Do you have very rigid power cables?As you can see from the picture I have linked you can tilt the cable. If that is not possible with your cables, you can get a sleeved extension cable for your PCI-E connecters that bend and tilt more easily. Tilted PCI-E connectors do not exist to my knowledge.

 

[Epos7]

The DirectCU-Mini designs should fit without problems. Do you have very rigid power cables?As you can see from the picture I have linked you can tilt the cable. If that is not possible with your cables, you can get a sleeved extension cable for your PCI-E connecters that bend and tilt more easily. Tilted PCI-E connectors do not exist to my knowledge.

I'm using the power cables that came with my SX500-LG. I think the cable had some memory from its original shape, but now that I've bent it back into place a couple of times it seems to be staying there. If not I'll check out the sleeved cables. Thanks.

 

[sassynapoleon]

I'm looking to do a dual radiator custom loop with a slim rad and slim fans on the bottom and the main rad in the standard location. Any general thoughts on fan placement (push vs. pull) and airflow direction (intake vs exhaust)?

I am trying to make this build as travel friendly as possible so I'm wary of putting fans between the rads and the mounts. Though, the bottom fan is fairly thin so it is less of a problem and I'd consider the side rad as well if it felt secure.

 

[thefivetheory]

Has anyone had an issue with the PCIE slots in the case where a GPU screws into place fine, but the bracket isn't actually flush with the outside slot, thereby causing issues with connectors not fully inserting into the ports? Trying to figure out how to resolve this...

 

[Nobu]

Loosen all of your motherboard mounting screws and press lightly toward the back of the case as you tighten them down--should fix it. If not, it may be a manufacturing defect in your case or motherboard.
Edit: or do you mean it's too low or high?

 

[friend'scatdied]

Noctua industrialPPC 2000RPM. They have the latest Noctua technology for durable high performance cooling AND ... they are all black (with brown vibration dampeners, that you can remove. Since they are actually designed for server environments they can run with 2000 (or 3000) RPM, which at the same time disqualifies them for silent (non-audible) systems with extra-low RPMs. But with some fan control to get these beasts under control, you will have a quiet and powerful loop. Bit pricey, but you just need two of them so it's not too painfull.

Actually selling two of those exact same fans to go to the poopy brown ones.

I think they'd be pretty close to silent at 5v.

 

[thefivetheory]

Loosen all of your motherboard mounting screws and press lightly toward the back of the case as you tighten them down--should fix it. If not, it may be a manufacturing defect in your case or motherboard.
Edit: or do you mean it's too low or high?

That's a good idea, thanks. I should have thought of that. Hopefully that does the trick. Basically it's as if the plane of the port is a few mm further inside the case than it should be.. I have a V1 and this just started recently but I can't put my finger on when or what I might have done to cause it. Very irritating though.

 

[klatox]

Sorry if this has been asked before. I've noticed the power cable going to my ASUS GTX 960 Mini is causing the side of the case to bulge because it sticks straight out of the card into the side panel. Is there are good solution for preventing this? I double there are any PSU cables available with a 90 degree 6 pin PCIe connector. I'm wondering if the cable needs to be zip tied to a point on the case that will pull it away from the side panel.

I have a gtx 970 mini and I used a 90 degree left angled pcie adapter (ebay) to avoid this entirely.