NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

s0skey said:
I finally got around to installing the new V4 SFX bracket and new fan bracket with magnetic fan filter in my version 1 M1. The SFX bracket fits perfectly. The new fan bracket not so much:

[...]

A little bummed but I can confirm another misfitting fan bracket. Is there anything that can be done about this?
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So I think I've figured out why these fan brackets aren't lining up. Lian Li moved the screw holes back when we had threaded nuts added on V2 and later. This is why it's only been V1 (First Edition) owners who bought the V4 steel fan bracket that are having this issue. In terms of what you can do:

  1. Contact us through the website to request a replacement. I will have LL change the bracket holes to slots so they fit all versions properly.
  2. Modify the bracket yourself by drilling or filing out the holes.
  3. Try flexing the front of the chassis inward. Another person said this worked for them.
 
It seems that the fan bracket issue doesn't only pertain to V1. I own a V3 and my bracket fit similar to s0skey's photo but not quite as off. It was easily fixed with a file so really a non issue for me but I thought I should let you know that it goes beyond the V1.
 
ERACK said:
It seems that the fan bracket issue doesn't only pertain to V1. I own a V3 and my bracket fit similar to s0skey's photo but not quite as off. It was easily fixed with a file so really a non issue for me but I thought I should let you know that it goes beyond the V1.
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Interesting, thanks for that.
 
I'm quite happy with my new fanbracket as it fits my V2 without any problems.
It really looks like some poor QC from Lian Li side if it doesn't fit some other cases.
 
Not out yet but do you guys think it will fit? Seems a bit long.

http://site.ekwb.com/news/623/19/EK-Predator-is-setting-a-new-standard-for-AIO-liquid-cooling/

EK-Predator_240_1_1200(1).jpg
 
"Dimensions of the main radiator unit on Predator 240, with integrated pump and reservoir are: 295 x 133 x 68 mm. This allows mounting of unit in most modern computer cases. Predator 360 is a bit bigger beast, measuring 415 x 133 x 68 mm! EKWB will provide a list of compatible cases before launch."

www.ncases.com compatibility tab said:
Single 120mm or 240mm radiators only.
A 240mm radiator on the side bracket will prevent use of ATX power supplies or the dual 3.5" HDD cage.
Recommended maximum radiator length: 290mm (303mm available internally, however the chassis lip makes 290mm+ difficult. Utilizing the inside front 2.5" drive mount also limits radiator length).
Recommended maximum thickness of radiator+fans: 60mm (85mm total available between side bracket and SFX bracket)
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So the official specs on the 240mm version are exceeding recommended maximums on both length and thickness.
 
ERACK said:
It seems that the fan bracket issue doesn't only pertain to V1. I own a V3 and my bracket fit similar to s0skey's photo but not quite as off. It was easily fixed with a file so really a non issue for me but I thought I should let you know that it goes beyond the V1.
Click to expand...

I have a v3 myself (production december 2014) and my v4 fanbracket is not perfectly fitting aswell but its only so slightly off that you can screw the bracket in with some careful force. Not perfect but nothing to complain about.
 
Hey I'm looking to build a 5775c with Maximus 7 impact in my M1.

I've been using the SPCR M1 case study for reference and they suggest cooling the CPU with the NH-D9L - a sideways config pushing air out the back.

However the NCASE site suggests down coolers like the NH-L12 are better for the case. But this might keep hot air in and cause the SX600G to ramp up the fan :S

Alternately it seems some people are using a vertically oriented NH-U9S instead.

What's my best option for cool and quiet?

Also bonus question, would the Indigo XS reflow TIM be a good option here or should I stick with Arctic Silver stuff?

Thanks heaps for any insight :]
 
Necere said:
So I think I've figured out why these fan brackets aren't lining up. Lian Li moved the screw holes back when we had threaded nuts added on V2 and later. This is why it's only been V1 (First Edition) owners who bought the V4 steel fan bracket that are having this issue. In terms of what you can do:

  1. Contact us through the website to request a replacement. I will have LL change the bracket holes to slots so they fit all versions properly.
  2. Modify the bracket yourself by drilling or filing out the holes.
  3. Try flexing the front of the chassis inward. Another person said this worked for them.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Necere. I'll contact you guys through the website.
 
For me it was enough to install the front screws first, and rear screws second (V1 chassis, V4 fan bracket).
 
Pumped as all heck to get this case. I ordered (silver, no ODD slot - this config didn't say "out of stock") the morning of the 24th - am I looking at it shipping on the 7th, or is that only for "out of stock" models? Jut curious what kind of timeframe I'm looking at typically on this so I can plan (or bail out before my wallet cries) on my build.

I'm looking for this thing to be an absolute beast for Adobe Premiere Pro and After Effects CC, as well as tear through games - but I'm on the fence with how much additional performance this will get me over my 15" Retina MacBook Pro that's been my portable powerhouse for a bit now (2.3ghz quad core 4850HQ, 16GB RAM, 750M 2GB)

This is what I'm considering:

Core i7 5960X 8-core with Corsair H110i GT AIO (goal is over 4ghz stable on all cores)
Asrock X99/ITX ac 2011-3 mobo
32GB (2x16gb)DDR4-whatever maximum speed the 5960 can take
GTX 980 Ti (undecided on reference vs MSI)
Possible bifurcated PCI-E port to allow for Thunderbolt 2 PCI-E card.

I'm still sort of on the fence. Is the 5960X, released one year ago this month, still worth a grand? Is my overall performance going to satisfy me over my MBP enough to drop $2300? I think probably, but who knows. I'm furiously researching.
 
You're looking at a potential 6-8 fold performance increase when overclocked so long as all the cores are utilized. The 5960X is still the fastest desktop CPU available if you can make use of all the cores (if you ignore all the 2011-3 Xeons).

Few things you might want to consider. The Corsair H105 might be a better fit on account of there being an official adapter for the socket for it (see the thread pertaining to the motherboard). I also have no idea how you plan on squeezing in a second expansion card using a splitter/ribbon cables. If you want fast storage, get the ASRock U.2 kit and an Intel 750 SSD.
 
fs454 said:
This is what I'm considering:

Core i7 5960X 8-core with Corsair H110i GT AIO (goal is over 4ghz stable on all cores)
Asrock X99/ITX ac 2011-3 mobo
32GB (2x16gb)DDR4-whatever maximum speed the 5960 can take
GTX 980 Ti (undecided on reference vs MSI)
Possible bifurcated PCI-E port to allow for Thunderbolt 2 PCI-E card.
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Blue Fox said:
Few things you might want to consider. The Corsair H105 might be a better fit on account of there being an official adapter for the socket for it (see the thread pertaining to the motherboard).
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Guys, the H110i is a 280 mm rad, the case only supports 240 mm rads. You need an H105 or similar with the narrow ILM ring.
 
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XelNika said:
Guys, the H110i is a 280 mm rad, the case only supports 240 mm rads. The H100i seems to fit, otherwise you need an H105 or similar with the narrow ILM ring.
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Ah, I'm aware it's 240mm max for the case - I'm constantly getting the Corsair AIO kits mixed up. I'll be fitting a 240mm rad in, be it the H105 or something else.

Blue Fox said:
You're looking at a potential 6-8 fold performance increase when overclocked so long as all the cores are utilized. The 5960X is still the fastest desktop CPU available if you can make use of all the cores (if you ignore all the 2011-3 Xeons).

Few things you might want to consider. The Corsair H105 might be a better fit on account of there being an official adapter for the socket for it (see the thread pertaining to the motherboard). I also have no idea how you plan on squeezing in a second expansion card using a splitter/ribbon cables. If you want fast storage, get the ASRock U.2 kit and an Intel 750 SSD.
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The second expansion card is a point of contention right now. I'm either going to use a ribbon cable splitter and route it until I can get a thunderbolt port literally anywhere (I'll make cutouts somewhere if I have to), but this is a future issue to deal with once I see what's going on with the case. I'm okay with USB 3 for the time being - although I would have loved to have a mobo with USB-C and/or TB from the outset. Too soon, I guess, especially at this form factor.
 
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Going to be a real pain to have an adapter occupy the first expansion slot and the GPU hanging down in the lower two. The PCIe slot on the board provides a lot of support, so you'd need to rig something up so it doesn't sag.

ThunderBolt is a very niche product still, so you're going to find few things that aren't marketed at Apple products with it. It isn't being included in larger boards either due to lack of demand and cost. Can't really think of any products that TB exclusive since USB3/3.1 provides a fair bit of bandwidth and if you need very fast storage, there's the M.2 slot like I mentioned. I think it's going to be more trouble than it's worth.
 
Is there any talk about a theoretical future v5 coming with a USB Type C front port? That's going to be a default connector for a very long time and I'm hesitant to buy any case right now without it.
 
Blue Fox said:
Going to be a real pain to have an adapter occupy the first expansion slot and the GPU hanging down in the lower two. The PCIe slot on the board provides a lot of support, so you'd need to rig something up so it doesn't sag.

ThunderBolt is a very niche product still, so you're going to find few things that aren't marketed at Apple products with it. It isn't being included in larger boards either due to lack of demand and cost. Can't really think of any products that TB exclusive since USB3/3.1 provides a fair bit of bandwidth and if you need very fast storage, there's the M.2 slot like I mentioned. I think it's going to be more trouble than it's worth.
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I'm considering the implications of mounting the GPU independent of the motherboard. I'm thinking up a solution for this and figure it will also put the GPU fans closer to the bottom vents. I'm thinking some sort of mounted standoff situation, but I'll likely begin this build without the riser / extra card situation.

As for Thunderbolt - I work as a director and editor in a production house / talent management company and here in LA the industry is overwhelmingly Apple. That being said, I have a stack of about 200 Thunderbolt drives with jobs on them from the past two years, and the jobs will always pay for whatever drives are needed to sustain the massive data rate of 6K footage or ARRIRAW. I can definitely make do with USB 3 (most drives do have it as well like you said) but with there already being an immediate need for high bandwidth external storage, I can only think the future will get more and more dependent on another connector that's not USB 3.0.
 
Anyone know of an mDTX motherboard with two x16 pcie slots? I'm thinking a watercooled build with two R9 Fury Nanos would be interesting, especially in a case as small as the M1. ;)
 
Nobu said:
Anyone know of an mDTX motherboard with two x16 pcie slots? I'm thinking a watercooled build with two R9 Fury Nanos would be interesting, especially in a case as small as the M1. ;)
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No such thing exists. You'd be fine with 8x PCI-E 3.0, so I'd suggest you consider the bifirucation route instead.
 
Ah, sorry, I figured something like that would be on the first page so I didn't search.
Vittra said:
No such thing exists. You'd be fine with 8x PCI-E 3.0, so I'd suggest you consider the bifirucation route instead.
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Yeah, I thought about that, wasn't sure it'd work in the M1 though--guess I could use the bottom two slots for the gpus, though I'd have to prop them up with something.
 
Gotta say: Reading through this thread it was clear Necere put a lot of thought into this design, but getting the case and working in it has given me an even greater appreciation for just how well thought out this case is. It's a work of genius!

For anyone thinking about using the Asus Z97i-PLUS and/or the Kabuto II - which I thoroughly recommend as a pairing - here's my input.

Mounted heatpipes-rear there's plenty room for a 92mm fan intake/exhausting the heatpipes if needed. The right side of the Kabuto allows a small but sufficient amount of cable management room between it and the hard disk mounting cage, which keeps everything neat. The added bonus is that the fan's screw holes line up *almost* perfectly with the fan bracket, close enough that with a couple of fan gaskets I expect to achieve a flush and airtight fit between heatsink, fan and fan bracket (cowsgomoo - woooooo!!). I'd say the clearance is probably about 4-6mm with the only modification at this point being removal of the Kabuto's clamp.


mozUAm7.jpg



I swapped the Scythe fan for a Noctua NF-F12 PWM which is significantly quieter even without the low noise adapter, although that's staying on. The Scythe is there for backup at higher temps, although the 65W TDP of the 4690S isn't really much of a challenge to cool when the case is this empty.

sEN1muC.jpg


I will mention this, the Asus TPM module (a TPM module should absolutely be in your build plans if you'll be running Win 10) does sit against the Kabuto heatpipes in this orientation. I'm comfortable with that, I don't see too much of a risk, but it's worth pointing out. Probably should put some insulating tape on the top of it though...

EHhnNV6.jpg



Power Supply Placement (Sparkle Power FSP400-60GHS)

You can see the plug, socket and cord are subject to a small amount of stress situated this way, which was necessary so the PSU would intake from the right of the case and not internally.

jWesbQ0.jpg


Necere - If you're planning a V5 design perhaps cutting a *little* bit more out of the right of the frame's front panel where the psu cable is might help people who have PSU's with sockets on the left and want to orientate them to intake from the right of the case. That said, I'm pretty comfortable with this - and this socket here is probably as far to the left as you'll commonly get.

All in all I'm extremely happy with this case and the build so far. Thanks again to all you guys for your help!
 
bagpipes said:
All in all I'm extremely happy with this case and the build so far. Thanks again to all you guys for your help!
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I agree. I noticed my Silverstone SFX-L is touching that area and it would be nice if there is no downsides. This isn't a big issue but it would be nice.
 
Reading a lot about what fits in terms of the corsair AIO kits in relation to overclocking the 5960x - is there anything better than the H105? I see it reaching 85-87C at 4.4ghz under load using an H105 in a couple different situations. Are there any AIO kits that fit the M1 but are stronger than the H105?

I've never done a roll-your-own watercooling setup before, what would I be looking at from a cost perspective to achieve better than AIO performance with a 5960x? How much would that change if I wanted to include a GTX 980 Ti in the loop?

Thanks again guys.
 
bagpipes said:
Necere - If you're planning a V5 design perhaps cutting a *little* bit more out of the right of the frame's front panel where the psu cable is might help people who have PSU's with sockets on the left and want to orientate them to intake from the right of the case. That said, I'm pretty comfortable with this - and this socket here is probably as far to the left as you'll commonly get.
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I noticed that when the power cable passes through that slot opening at the top of the front panel it presses on my ODD (Panasonic UJ-265) and actually compresses the top of the drive several millimeters which I fear would affect disc loading and ejection. I'd actually prefer a small plate to put over that slot opening to prevent the power cable from pressing on the ODD.

It is possible to order a power cable from Ncase that attaches to the opposite side of the right-angled plug. Actually, I just checked and this alternate power cable is not listed on the Ncase website's Accessories listing anymore.
 
I'm familiar with the unnecessary rigidity of Corsair tubing, but has anyone tried to bend the tubes on pesky models like the H80i and H100i GTX outside of the case?

I'm wondering if holding the H100i GTX tubes at a sub-90 degee angle against the tubes as close to the fittings as possible (within reason i.e. not risking breakage) for some time might help alleviate some of the fitment issues arising from the lack of swiveling barbs.

The idea wouldn't be to permanently bend the hoses but to make it pliable in a desirable direction.
 
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bagpipes said:
jWesbQ0.jpg
"

Necere - If you're planning a V5 design perhaps cutting a *little* bit more out of the right of the frame's front panel where the psu cable is might help people who have PSU's with sockets on the left and want to orientate them to intake from the right of the case. That said, I'm pretty comfortable with this - and this socket here is probably as far to the left as you'll commonly get.

All in all I'm extremely happy with this case and the build so far. Thanks again to all you guys for your help!
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You need a right angled cable. The V1 case came with a right angled cable. This caused a conflict with many power supplies. Subsequently, the V2, V3, and V4 come with left angled cables to support a wider range of products. Unfortunately the power supply you are using is one of the few that benefits from the original right angle cable.

You can purchase the right angled cable as an accessory from the website, however it appears no accessories are available for sale at the moment. I would suspect this is due to the remainder of the accessories that weren't sold during the V4 being shipped over to the US to Wahaha, prior to being shipped out to everyone else. This is only speculation however, the actual reason may be something else.
 
fs454 said:
Reading a lot about what fits in terms of the corsair AIO kits in relation to overclocking the 5960x - is there anything better than the H105? I see it reaching 85-87C at 4.4ghz under load using an H105 in a couple different situations. Are there any AIO kits that fit the M1 but are stronger than the H105?

I've never done a roll-your-own watercooling setup before, what would I be looking at from a cost perspective to achieve better than AIO performance with a 5960x? How much would that change if I wanted to include a GTX 980 Ti in the loop?

Thanks again guys.
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From what I have read and can remember from this long thread that the best cooling will come from full on water cooling set ups. The H105 is about as good as you will get as far as AIO units go. There is the C12 and C14 air units which are popularly used in the M1 but they won't probably provide the ultimate cooling you want for the 5960x overclocked. The 'roll-your-own watercooling set up' is the way to go if you are into that sort of thing. I wish you luck with that. It is for the Hard type user. :D
 
Phuncz said:
Could you explain why ? I thought it was only used for BitLocker, which is a Pro and Enterprise-only feature.
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I can try, but I can't promise it will make any sense or be correct.

Full disclosure - I was told to do this by a friend who works in security. I'm only just looking up how it all works now!

As I understand it Windows now holds more than bitlocker keys in TPM, it can use it with UEFI and 'secure boot' on (in your BIOS menu) for 'Trusted Boot' and 'Measured Boot'. I was wrong about the Win 10 bit, it seems to be Win 8.1 onwards.

'Trusted Boot' is a Microsoft technique of verifying the integrity of your boot sector to protect against bootkit malware (pdf). There's also Measured Boot, another Microsoft feature that stores metrics derived from the boot process in TPM so Microsoft can verify the integrity of your installation remotely with it's Remote Attestation service.

It took me several readings to get this but it looks like Trusted Boot is an on-host check and Measured boot is maybe a more heuristic test the verifies remotely with MS. Either way it seems to be quite a clever way of using hashing and signing to ensure nothing messes with your boot sector - I'm sure there's probably a cascading effect on kernel level security too but I didn't really have the time to go down that road to check.

This is a good page with a decent explanation of Trusted Boot and Measured Boot: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/dn168169.aspx

I think the difference between Win 8.1 and Win 10 is that Win 10 will make use of the TPM module for storing more of the 'derived security' creds that MS will be using.

It looks like MS is forcing all OEMs from next year onwards to include a TPM module for Win 10 which to me suggests they're looking to use it as a core part of their OS security.

I hope that's useful (and correct!) maybe someone with more knowledge than me can give it an ok or correct me.
 
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A TPM is NOT required for Secure Boot, that's handled by the UEFI firmware (replacement for the BIOS).
A TPM is a great idea for enterprise security management, but for a home user it's not going to provide a noticeable benefit. It's no good having the ability to more easily audit keys and certificates if you have no key and certificate management infrastructure.
 
I'm planning on buying this case in a few months (if there's stock anyway) & was wondering if an XFX R9 Double Dissipation GPU would fit. The specs are: 11.61" x 5.63". I see some pictures with Windforce cards that are longer than this card but I'm worried about the height. Hopefully the answer is yes.
 
What about USB Type C support? Is there a way we can add this to the build ourselves, since it seems they don't offer it?
 
Nostalgia said:
I'm planning on buying this case in a few months (if there's stock anyway) & was wondering if an XFX R9 Double Dissipation GPU would fit. The specs are: 11.61" x 5.63". I see some pictures with Windforce cards that are longer than this card but I'm worried about the height. Hopefully the answer is yes.
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I'm assuming you're talking about this card? The specs say no, but the pics say maybe. The PCB looks reference height (which is good), and the cooler does not appear to be as tall as the 5.63" would indicate. It's possible they measured the card from the bottom of the metal bracket, which is a less common way of doing it and adds some 15mm to the measured height.

ctrlbrk said:
What about USB Type C support? Is there a way we can add this to the build ourselves, since it seems they don't offer it?
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Not easily. There's no standard for the USB 3.1 internal header, and therefore no motherboards with a header, so front panel connectors would need to be passed through to the rear ports. Until that situation changes, don't expect Type C support on our cases.
 
Nostalgia said:
I'm planning on buying this case in a few months (if there's stock anyway) & was wondering if an XFX R9 Double Dissipation GPU would fit. The specs are: 11.61" x 5.63". I see some pictures with Windforce cards that are longer than this card but I'm worried about the height. Hopefully the answer is yes.
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the 290 DD fits, so if the dimensions are the same then itll fit.
 
What do you guys think about the new Seasonic Snow Silent line? The small one is 750W ATX, measures 170mm x 150mm x 86mm. It has a 120mm FDB fan.

http://www.seasonicusa.com/SnowSilent Series.htm

I plan to use the R9 Nano in my build. Comments on combining it with this PSU? 750W is overkill, but I love Seasonic and didn't want a completely fanless PSU due to heat concerns.

Comments?
 
ctrlbrk said:
What do you guys think about the new Seasonic Snow Silent line? The small one is 750W ATX, measures 170mm x 150mm x 86mm. It has a 120mm FDB fan.
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The 750W reviewed very well here on HardOCP.

But will it fit? According to the website, the maximum recommended length for an ATX PSU in the Ncase is 160mm, and HardOCP measured the length of the Snow Silent 750W to be 6 5/8", or 168mm. And you do give up the dual 3.5" HDD cage or 240mm radiator mounted to the side bracket when using an ATX PSU.
 
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