NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Currently thorn between either getting the reference 980ti or the EVGA ACX 2.0+ cooler.
I know that the reference cooler will help by exhausting the heat out the back but wont be able to overclock as much as the EVGA ACX 2.0+

Any suggestions?
 
Nobu said:
I was thinking something like this, only Type-C connectors instead of Type-B, and whatever they decide for the motherboard header (if they ever put one into spec). For this, I'd imagine the host would still be the motherboard (or, more specifically, the USB controller on the motherboard).

If you were planning on keeping the same motherboard, I could see where you'd have a problem...but then you would need some USB Type-C hub/controller in the case anyway--either built into the case, or an add-in card that optionally receives additional power from the PSU.
Click to expand...

USB Type-C is just the specification for the plug, nothing more, so just a cable wouldn't work as the mainboard has no idea how to use all the pins on the connector.

The second thing would work if it had a controller inside, so the last solution seems like the most likely for old boards. You could connect something like that in a different form factor to the mPCIe slot and be done with it.
 
Most motherboards (or processors) have a usb controller integrated, and a usb3.1 controller would know how to handle a usb type-c connection (I would hope, it's in the 3.1 spec). There are pins on the connector which are used to detect in what way the cable is oriented--there's no need for an additional controller if you already have one on your motherboard and there is a header available:
Zheng Kevin said:
http://kevinzhengwork.blogspot.com/2014/09/usb-type-c-configuration-channel-cc-pin.html]Resolve[/url] cable orientation and twist connections to establish USB data bus routing
The Type-C can be plugged with upside-up and upside-down. When the DFP detected the CC1 pin was pulled down, it is upside-up plug. When the CC2 pin was pulled down, it is upside-down plug. The figure as below show the MUX is used Type-C USB3.1 signal path switch. Since the data rate of USB3.1 is up to 10 Gbps, we need to add MUX to avoid the trace branch or stub.
Click to expand...

You would only need to mark which side is up on the connector, then mount it appropriately on your case and connect the other end to your motherboard. This is assuming your motherboard has a usb3.1 controller and the necessary headers, of course.

Edit: I think I see what you're saying. The two pins used to detect the orientation of the connector communicate with a separate controller, which isn't necessary or in the 3.1 spec for type-a/b connectors. I don't see anything preventing this from being integrated into modern motherboards, though--motherboards are getting smaller, but so are the components mounted on them.
 
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'client end' Type-C does not necessarily imply USB 3.1 (or even USB 3.0). You can have a USB 2.0 device with a Type C socket and be fully in-spec. I'm not so sure as to if that also applies to a dedicated host; if so, you could have a Type-C front panel that terminates in a USB3 (or USB2) motherboard header and remain fully in-spec.
 
brahbruh said:
Currently thorn between either getting the reference 980ti or the EVGA ACX 2.0+ cooler.
I know that the reference cooler will help by exhausting the heat out the back but wont be able to overclock as much as the EVGA ACX 2.0+

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

What type of CPU cooler do you have?

I'm using an H75 in an NCASE v2, in the right 120mm side mount (with 2 fans, blowing right onto the power supply, which pulls air in from the back), and it looks like I could fit another 120mm radiator in the left position.

That means an EVGA hybrid cooler or a 390X water cooler might work. I'm just worried about how the tubing will curl up in there, since the tubes on the hybrid cooler look especially long. The tubes for the H75 take up a bit of space as-is. Might only be able to fit 1 fan in either push/pull.

Has anybody tried using two 120mm AIO coolers mounted in the side of this case? Edit: Thanks tblake, I found it on page 817.
 
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Kawi said:
What type of CPU cooler do you have?

I'm using an H75 in an NCASE v2, in the right 120mm side mount (with 2 fans, blowing right onto the power supply, which pulls air in from the back), and it looks like I could fit another 120mm radiator in the left position.

That means an EVGA hybrid cooler or a 390X water cooler might work. I'm just worried about how the tubing will curl up in there, since the tubes on the hybrid cooler look especially long. The tubes for the H75 take up a bit of space as-is. Might only be able to fit 1 fan in either push/pull.

Has anybody tried using two 120mm AIO coolers mounted in the side of this case?
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm doing a dual 120mm AIO cooler build right now with a Corsair H55 and an EVGA Titan X Hybrid. Look back a few pages for great pics from "Greasy Bacon" who did a build with an H55 and 980 Hybrid. The combo is tight but very workable. Not sure an H75 will work as the rad is much thicker. I am able to even squeeze in rear and bottom mounted 92mm fans as intakes. I got my M1 today (much earlier than expected) so hope to have the build done by next weekend as I don't have all the parts yet. I will post pics as well when done.

Tom
 
EdZ said:
'client end' Type-C does not necessarily imply USB 3.1 (or even USB 3.0). You can have a USB 2.0 device with a Type C socket and be fully in-spec. I'm not so sure as to if that also applies to a dedicated host; if so, you could have a Type-C front panel that terminates in a USB3 (or USB2) motherboard header and remain fully in-spec.
Click to expand...

Then how would the reversed connection be detected? Are the pins just mirrored to the other side of the Type-C plug?
 
Kawi said:
What type of CPU cooler do you have?

I'm using an H75 in an NCASE v2, in the right 120mm side mount (with 2 fans, blowing right onto the power supply, which pulls air in from the back), and it looks like I could fit another 120mm radiator in the left position.

That means an EVGA hybrid cooler or a 390X water cooler might work. I'm just worried about how the tubing will curl up in there, since the tubes on the hybrid cooler look especially long. The tubes for the H75 take up a bit of space as-is. Might only be able to fit 1 fan in either push/pull.

Has anybody tried using two 120mm AIO coolers mounted in the side of this case? Edit: Thanks tblake, I found it on page 817.
Click to expand...

Have not gotten the case yet but I am thinking of using a h100i for the CPU. I'm currently just really unsure about the EVGA's cooler. Some people say they do run loud, sometimes even louder than reference design.
 
tblake said:
Yes, I'm doing a dual 120mm AIO cooler build right now with a Corsair H55 and an EVGA Titan X Hybrid. Look back a few pages for great pics from "Greasy Bacon" who did a build with an H55 and 980 Hybrid. The combo is tight but very workable. Not sure an H75 will work as the rad is much thicker. I am able to even squeeze in rear and bottom mounted 92mm fans as intakes. I got my M1 today (much earlier than expected) so hope to have the build done by next weekend as I don't have all the parts yet. I will post pics as well when done.

Tom
Click to expand...

Does the EVGA Hybrid make any noticeable noise at idle?
 
Has anyone fit a corsair h100i gtx in their ncase? If I use a 240 rad can I still mount 2 2.5 drives at the front of the case?
 
iFreilicht said:
Then how would the reversed connection be detected? Are the pins just mirrored to the other side of the Type-C plug?
Click to expand...
Yes, they are mirrored (well, technically, rotationally symmetric), but in the case of a cable that goes from Type-C to Type-B/A or to a USB2.0 header, the extra pins are either not used in the connector or are terminated to ground/each-other, depending on whether they are unused in 2.0 or are there just so you can use the connector in either orientation.

According to the Type-C Spec, pins 2, 3, 10, and 11 on side A and B of the connector are unused and wires 6-15 aren't included when the cable only supports USB 2.0. The spec includes illustrations and tables describing all combinations of Type-A/B/C cables (or, at least, all combinations that have one side being type-C), if you're interested.
 
Guys, I have a dilemma.

I got my hands on a reference 980 for a great price, but need a new PSU since it wont fit with my X-series 650w.

Is it feasible to run it off the SX450-G?

or should I suck it up and deal with the say the SX500-G would introduce?
 
Curiositie said:
Guys, I have a dilemma.

I got my hands on a reference 980 for a great price, but need a new PSU since it wont fit with my X-series 650w.

Is it feasible to run it off the SX450-G?

or should I suck it up and deal with the say the SX500-G would introduce?
Click to expand...

The NCASE started out before the SX600 was available, so all the prototyping with the GTX 980 was with the SX450. So yes, that should work.
 
brahbruh said:
Have not gotten the case yet but I am thinking of using a h100i for the CPU. I'm currently just really unsure about the EVGA's cooler. Some people say they do run loud, sometimes even louder than reference design.
Click to expand...

Well, back to your original question about which GPU air cooler to go with, Necere made some comments on it awhile back. In short, you are almost certainly better off going with a reference-style blower cooler with the M1.

Depending on the source of the noise with the EVGA hybrid cooler, you may be able to solve the problem with a better fan, like a Noctua NF-F12 PWM. Due to the higher cooling efficiency of the radiator/fan, I would expect the hybrid cooler to be significantly quieter at load than a reference cooler, which I can attest is quite loud.

If you tweak the fan settings of the radiator fan so that it approaches 80°C like the reference cooler does, I imagine it would be very quiet indeed.
 
Hey guys, very first post here, unsure if i am breaking any rules.

Here is my build, all parts are purchased except for the GPU (which i'm waiting for the AMD to make a move and see what happens). Most parts were previously owned.

I want to know if there are any issues with the storage space and whether i'll have a problem running that RAM CPU and MOBO combination?

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pVPR99
 
Kawi said:
The NCASE started out before the SX600 was available, so all the prototyping with the GTX 980 was with the SX450. So yes, that should work.
Click to expand...

Sounds good, I'll do some more research before making my final decision though.

Thanks for the input!
 
I'm no expert on watercooling, so maybe a silly question. But It would be a major convenience if I can do my loop in this order res > gpu block > pump > rad > cpu block > res again.

But I've heard people say you can not do this because pump always has to be right after the res, yet I've seen people go against that rule.

So my question is, can I do this? If so what would I have to do differently from a normal loop? Just fill it really carefully and make sure the pump is never dry?

Thanks if anyone can answer this for me
 
Kawi said:
The NCASE started out before the SX600 was available, so all the prototyping with the GTX 980 was with the SX450. So yes, that should work.
Click to expand...
Prototype testing was done with the HD 7970, which was the hottest, most power-hungry single-GPU card available at the time, and represented a good worst-case test subject (within reason). The GTX 980 had yet to be released (or even the GTX 780, for that matter).

You're correct about the 450W ST45SF-G being the highest wattage SFX PSU available then, and it held up fine during testing with the 7970, even running Furmark while overclocked. Modern cards (on the nvidia side especially) don't draw more power than the 7970 did.


Kawi said:
Well, back to your original question about which GPU air cooler to go with, Necere made some comments on it awhile back. In short, you are almost certainly better off going with a reference-style blower cooler with the M1.
Click to expand...
Damn, has it been almost a year since that post :eek: Time flies.

rauldelga said:
Hey guys, very first post here, unsure if i am breaking any rules.

Here is my build, all parts are purchased except for the GPU (which i'm waiting for the AMD to make a move and see what happens). Most parts were previously owned.

I want to know if there are any issues with the storage space and whether i'll have a problem running that RAM CPU and MOBO combination?

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pVPR99
Click to expand...
Everything looks okay, but keep in mind the 3.5" HDD will need to go on the bottom, since the H100i will prevent the HDD cage from being used. Having the drive on the bottom means two things: 1.) there's only room for a single 92mm fan on the bottom, 2.) use a blower GPU, or else the drive will block much of the GPU intake.

Having a 3.5" HDD on the bottom with an air-cooled GPU right above it is honestly not the best choice, since even a blower card leaks/radiates a fair amount of heat, and the drive will run hot. That's especially true for a 7200RPM drive. If you can, I'd replace it with another 2.5" drive, for which there are many more mounting options, and it frees up the bottom of the case for fans.


iNewbcake said:
I'm no expert on watercooling, so maybe a silly question. But It would be a major convenience if I can do my loop in this order res > gpu block > pump > rad > cpu block > res again.

But I've heard people say you can not do this because pump always has to be right after the res, yet I've seen people go against that rule.

So my question is, can I do this? If so what would I have to do differently from a normal loop? Just fill it really carefully and make sure the pump is never dry?

Thanks if anyone can answer this for me
Click to expand...
The reason people recommend against it is because you risk damaging the pump if you run it dry, and it's difficult to get the coolant into the pump when you're first filling the loop if the res isn't right before it. That's not to say you can't do it, you should just be mindful of that and do what you can to avoid running it dry for more than a second or two at a time.
 
I have a cooling question, if there are any takers. I received my M1 v2 last fall, and have been cooling the whole rig with a single Noctua NH-C14 using the low noise adapter cables. It worked like a dream: simple, whisper quiet, decent temps.But alas, summer is here and my temps have risen: into the mid-70's on my CPU, GPU, and mobo under load in a hot room. All within tolerances, but I'd like it cooler. I removed the noise adapters and gave it a good cleaning, and my temps are generally back down into the 60s, but I'm wondering if there is a more efficient, preferably even quieter, way to cool everything. The noise without the adapters is hardly annoying, but it was even better when it was nearly silent.

I also have an H100i lying around, which works fine once it's running, but I tend to sleep/wake my machine often, and when the machine wakes from sleep the H100i goes full-on leafblower for about 10 seconds. I suppose I could alternatively put a couple of 120 mm fans on the bottom of the case.

Here's my basic setup:

Core i5 2500K at stock
Asus P8Z77-i deluxe
Corsair 8 GB RAM
Noctua NH-C14 (top fan only)
EVGA GTX 760 w ACX 2.0 cooler (hoping to upgrade to a blower-style 970 or 980 soon)
Silverstone SX600-g pulling air from outside case
Samsung 840 EVO 500 GB

Here are my options:

1) stick with the NH-C14, with or without adding a few intake fans at the bottom of the case
2) switch to the H100i, try to mitigate the wake-up noise (maybe replace the Corsair fans with something quieter, maybe NF-F12s?)
3) take EVGA up on their generous offer to replace my open-air 760 with a blower-style
4) something else I have not considered

Those with cooling experience: any opinions? Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Kawi said:
Well, back to your original question about which GPU air cooler to go with, Necere made some comments on it awhile back. In short, you are almost certainly better off going with a reference-style blower cooler with the M1.

Depending on the source of the noise with the EVGA hybrid cooler, you may be able to solve the problem with a better fan, like a Noctua NF-F12 PWM. Due to the higher cooling efficiency of the radiator/fan, I would expect the hybrid cooler to be significantly quieter at load than a reference cooler, which I can attest is quite loud.

If you tweak the fan settings of the radiator fan so that it approaches 80°C like the reference cooler does, I imagine it would be very quiet indeed.
Click to expand...

Thats the thing I'm most worried about, sound. Maybe it will be possible separating where to graphic card is and the rest of the case with an acrylic plate might work :p:p . I might go with the reference cooler then watercool some time in the future.
 
iNewbcake said:
I'm no expert on watercooling, so maybe a silly question. But It would be a major convenience if I can do my loop in this order res > gpu block > pump > rad > cpu block > res again.

But I've heard people say you can not do this because pump always has to be right after the res, yet I've seen people go against that rule.

So my question is, can I do this? If so what would I have to do differently from a normal loop? Just fill it really carefully and make sure the pump is never dry?

Thanks if anyone can answer this for me
Click to expand...

I'll emphasise what Necere said about pumps: never run them dry.

So. If the reservoir is above the GPU, and the GPU is above the pump, and the weight of the coolant inside the reservoir allows flow-by-gravitation from res to pump, then you should be okay.

But before you build it all in to your NCase, test res->gpu->pump->res outside the enclosure. This will help you learn how to fill and prime your loop more easily before doing it 'for real' so to speak.
 
inchikiboze said:
1) stick with the NH-C14, with or without adding a few intake fans at the bottom of the case
2) switch to the H100i, try to mitigate the wake-up noise (maybe replace the Corsair fans with something quieter, maybe NF-F12s?)
3) take EVGA up on their generous offer to replace my open-air 760 with a blower-style
4) something else I have not considered

Those with cooling experience: any opinions? Any advice would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

I would just stick with the NH-C14, but exchange the fan for a NF-P14r Redux PWM and adjust the pwm to hit 100% at 80C.

I've done this with my Pentium G3258 @4.5Ghz, and I think it's much more enjoyable than the humming from my previous Corsair H75i. My fans aren't even moving at idle.

Consider using components which generate less heat(< Watt) if you want a quiet cooling solution.
 
Curiositie said:
Guys, I have a dilemma.

I got my hands on a reference 980 for a great price, but need a new PSU since it wont fit with my X-series 650w.

Is it feasible to run it off the SX450-G?

or should I suck it up and deal with the say the SX500-G would introduce?
Click to expand...
I'm running a reference 980 off of the ST30SF (300W SFX) at stock with no problems, so the 450W will be more than enough even with overclocking.
 
EdZ said:
I'm running a reference 980 off of the ST30SF (300W SFX) at stock with no problems, so the 450W will be more than enough even with overclocking.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's a setup I'd never have expected to work!

If you don't mind me asking, what case are you using that supports 2 GPU's, but only an SFX PSU?

Or at least, how did you get into the position where you're using the ST30SF for 2 980's?
 
inchikiboze said:
Here are my options:

1) stick with the NH-C14, with or without adding a few intake fans at the bottom of the case
2) switch to the H100i, try to mitigate the wake-up noise (maybe replace the Corsair fans with something quieter, maybe NF-F12s?)
3) take EVGA up on their generous offer to replace my open-air 760 with a blower-style
4) something else I have not considered

Those with cooling experience: any opinions? Any advice would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
3) I'd do this for sure.
4) Use 2 120mm fans on the side panel and 1 120mm fan under the heatsink. You don't mention using the HDD bay adapter and you have an SFX PSU, so i'm assuming your side panel is empty.
 
Curiositie said:
Wow, that's a setup I'd never have expected to work!

If you don't mind me asking, what case are you using that supports 2 GPU's, but only an SFX PSU?

Or at least, how did you get into the position where you're using the ST30SF for 2 980's?
Click to expand...

Unless I missed something, he's running a single reference 980, not two.

EdZ said:
I'm running a reference 980 off of the ST30SF (300W SFX) at stock with no problems, so the 450W will be more than enough even with overclocking.
Click to expand...
 
icc0rz said:
I would just stick with the NH-C14, but exchange the fan for a NF-P14r Redux PWM and adjust the pwm to hit 100% at 80C.

Consider using components which generate less heat(< Watt) if you want a quiet cooling solution.
Click to expand...

icc0rz and Hanakuso (love the name), thanks for the advice. Hanakuso, you're right that I'm not using the HDD bracket, so my side panel is bare. I wasn't aware that you could put a 120 mm fan under the heatsink on the C14 and still have everything fit in the M1--nice! I'll consider the 3 x 120 mm solution. For now, I think I'll swap for the blower 760 and take icc0rz's suggestion with the NF-P14r. Hopefully, those two things together will bring my temps down a bit and keep me fairly quiet, and it'll only cost me a few bucks for the fan. Thanks!
 
Hi Guys, looking for some advice about my next build. Main priority for me is silence.

Build:
CPU: Waiting for Skylake
CPU Cooler: Top down, Noctua L12?
Mobo: Waiting for Skylake
PSU: Silverstone SFX 500LG (Heard bad things about SFX 600 noise wise)
GFX: MSI Twin Frozr V GTX 970 or Asus GTX970 Mini
HDD: Seagate Barracuda.

So I'm thinking of getting the MSI Twin Frozr V GTX 970 purely for the fanless mode (Strix won't fit). But I'm concerned about the cooling.

The plan is to have 2x 120mm low noise intakes from under the gfx, a 92mm exhaust at the back. I'll be using the side mounted hard drive cage. Since I'll be using a top down cpu cooler (Noctua L12), I pretty much have to have the one side fan as intake (if I can fit one in). Won't I have insufficient exhaust? I'd prefer a positive pressure setup since the house gets very dusty.

Also, having two intakes blowing into the graphics card, doesn't that sort of negate the point of passive cooling, noise wise? Anyone have experiences with noise on the Asus mini GTX970?

Any ideas of a positive pressure setup?
 
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Well, the side without a fan would still radiate heat...just not as efficiently. You might be able to squeeze one in there despite what the specs say, but I wouldn't count on it. At least they gave the option? o_o
 
hokxj said:
I'll be using the side mounted hard drive cage. Since I'll be using a top down cpu cooler (Noctua L12), I pretty much have to have the one side fan as intake (if I can fit one in).
Click to expand...

The Noctua NH-C12 will cool better than the L12 and will not interfere with mounting the hard drive cage. The NH-C12 can have two fans attached, one on top and one underneath. These will provide good intake and cooling of the CPU and motherboard componenets. I believe there is a similar Cryorig heatsink (the R1 Universal?) that also suits your plans.
 
hokxj said:
The plan is to have 2x 120mm low noise intakes from under the gfx, a 92mm exhaust at the back. I'll be using the side mounted hard drive cage. Since I'll be using a top down cpu cooler (Noctua L12), I pretty much have to have the one side fan as intake (if I can fit one in). Won't I have insufficient exhaust? I'd prefer a positive pressure setup since the house gets very dusty.
Click to expand...
Positive pressure means you have more intake airflow than exhaust airflow, which is what the case is designed for. You don't need any exhaust fans, though it can certainly help.

hokxj said:
Also, having two intakes blowing into the graphics card, doesn't that sort of negate the point of passive cooling, noise wise?
Click to expand...
You generally still need case fans running with semi-passive components (i.e., components that turn their fans off at idle). The bottom fans are the case fans in this situation.

Qrash said:
The Noctua NH-C12 will cool better than the L12 and will not interfere with mounting the hard drive cage. The NH-C12 can have two fans attached, one on top and one underneath. These will provide good intake and cooling of the CPU and motherboard componenets. I believe there is a similar Cryorig heatsink (the R1 Universal?) that also suits your plans.
Click to expand...
The NH-C12 is a good fit, though it may be difficult finding one since it's been discontinued. The Cryorig C1 is the cooler you're thinking of, but it does have some fitment issues. Basically, with a motherboard with centrally-located socket, the cooler hangs over the front of the board where it interferes with the SFX PSU. Mounting the PSU on the ATX bracket instead can work, though that of course prevents the front 120mm mount from being used on the fan bracket (and by extension, the 3.5" HDD cage). It might be possible that the C1 can be mounted in other orientations on a board with a socket closer to the top or bottom of the board, but I haven't seen anyone confirm that.

Edit: I did find this pic of the Cryorig mounted on an EVGA Z87 Stinger board, and it seems to fit with the cooler oriented vertically:

0img_0264.jpg



Another cooler worth considering is the Scythe Kabuto II, which makes good use of the available space and still allows for the 3.5" HDD cage to be used.
 
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I think the Dark rock TF will fit fine, it'll just suck to install, especially if you have something like a P8Z77I-Deluxe or Impact VII with a daughter board/ huge heatsink.
 
hokxj said:
Hi Guys, looking for some advice about my next build. Main priority for me is silence.

Build:
CPU: Waiting for Skylake
CPU Cooler: Top down, Noctua L12?
Mobo: Waiting for Skylake
PSU: Silverstone SFX 500LG (Heard bad things about SFX 600 noise wise)
GFX: MSI Twin Frozr V GTX 970 or Asus GTX970 Mini
HDD: Seagate Barracuda.

So I'm thinking of getting the MSI Twin Frozr V GTX 970 purely for the fanless mode (Strix won't fit). But I'm concerned about the cooling.

The plan is to have 2x 120mm low noise intakes from under the gfx, a 92mm exhaust at the back. I'll be using the side mounted hard drive cage. Since I'll be using a top down cpu cooler (Noctua L12), I pretty much have to have the one side fan as intake (if I can fit one in). Won't I have insufficient exhaust? I'd prefer a positive pressure setup since the house gets very dusty.

Also, having two intakes blowing into the graphics card, doesn't that sort of negate the point of passive cooling, noise wise? Anyone have experiences with noise on the Asus mini GTX970?

Any ideas of a positive pressure setup?
Click to expand...

I think I have gone for a cooling setup that aims for silence at idle, with a reasonably quiet system under load. I maximised the number of fans in my case, and have gone for a positive pressure setup to minimise dust.

Two 120mm GTs on the bottom, and two fans on the side panel that have low startup RPMs. THe bottom fans tend to sit around the 300-600 rpm mark at idle (depending on ambient temps), and the side fans usually idle around the 300 and 600 mark for the CPU and PSU respectively. At idle I find mine pretty much as silent as it can get with a 2.5" hdd making pretty much most of the noise.

Under load the two bottom fans spin up to around 1200, and make some airflow noise.

I am interested in seeing how quiet the 500L can be. I found the original 450 psu fan to be seriously terrible, as it would almost drown out the sound of a 3.5" drive.
 
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