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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
- Start date
It's very tight, but it fits.I wouldn't recommend an open air cooler in the M1 tho, and certainly not the G1 series if you value silence. The card goes full blast when you start the computer (very annoying) and isn't completely silent when idle. There is a walk around but it requires a vga bios mode. If I were to redo it, I would go with hybrid watercooler GPU like the eVGA 980ti Hybrid or the upcoming AMD GPU with a short PCB and radiator.
We'll be opening pre-orders as soon as we've validated the changes to the fan bracket, which is the only change for v4. Bear in mind production will take around a month, and shipping won't be until the second half of July or beginning of August.
Also, our plan is to ship the pre-ordered cases directly from Taiwan, as we've been doing, but after that w360 wants to ship the rest to the US to ship from here. This means if you miss the pre-order window (which will be open until probably mid-July), the next shipments after the late July-early August shipment from Taiwan won't be until September or October. This applies to orders in the Americas and Europe; we'll be keeping a small stock of M1s in Taiwan to fill orders in the rest of Asia and Australia.
Also, our plan is to ship the pre-ordered cases directly from Taiwan, as we've been doing, but after that w360 wants to ship the rest to the US to ship from here. This means if you miss the pre-order window (which will be open until probably mid-July), the next shipments after the late July-early August shipment from Taiwan won't be until September or October. This applies to orders in the Americas and Europe; we'll be keeping a small stock of M1s in Taiwan to fill orders in the rest of Asia and Australia.
Phuncz
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Removable (steel) bottom bracket 
I'd like that
I'd like that
Pat-Roner
Weaksauce
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If i'm subscribed to your newsletter, will I be notified about the preorder, or do I need to check here every day?
I'll need to double check with w360, but I believe we'll send out an email.
iFreilicht
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The issue I see there is that Type-C has increased the maximum current the connector can or should provide, so maybe a front connector for Type-C needs a different connector on the board that has different ratings for power or has to be powered by a SATA power cable or something like that.
Not sure though, it may be that the lowest current still stayed the same. I'll have a look at the standard and report back
EDIT: So the thing is, the orientation of the plug inside the Type-C receptable has to be detected by the host, in this case, the Front I/O panel. This means that if you were to implement a Type-C front panel that works with the USB3.0 header, you'd have to have a small Microcontroller on the PCB that does that detection and forwards the data to the required pins. The advantage is that your I/O panel could then also implement the various alternative modes like DisplayPort or TRRS Audio, but the disadvantage is that you'd have very high R&D costs until somthing like this becomes available publicly or board designers implement an internal Type-C connector.
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Nobu
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I was thinking something like this, only Type-C connectors instead of Type-B, and whatever they decide for the motherboard header (if they ever put one into spec). For this, I'd imagine the host would still be the motherboard (or, more specifically, the USB controller on the motherboard).
If you were planning on keeping the same motherboard, I could see where you'd have a problem...but then you would need some USB Type-C hub/controller in the case anyway--either built into the case, or an add-in card that optionally receives additional power from the PSU.
If you were planning on keeping the same motherboard, I could see where you'd have a problem...but then you would need some USB Type-C hub/controller in the case anyway--either built into the case, or an add-in card that optionally receives additional power from the PSU.
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iFreilicht
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USB Type-C is just the specification for the plug, nothing more, so just a cable wouldn't work as the mainboard has no idea how to use all the pins on the connector.
The second thing would work if it had a controller inside, so the last solution seems like the most likely for old boards. You could connect something like that in a different form factor to the mPCIe slot and be done with it.
Nobu
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Most motherboards (or processors) have a usb controller integrated, and a usb3.1 controller would know how to handle a usb type-c connection (I would hope, it's in the 3.1 spec). There are pins on the connector which are used to detect in what way the cable is oriented--there's no need for an additional controller if you already have one on your motherboard and there is a header available:
You would only need to mark which side is up on the connector, then mount it appropriately on your case and connect the other end to your motherboard. This is assuming your motherboard has a usb3.1 controller and the necessary headers, of course.
Edit: I think I see what you're saying. The two pins used to detect the orientation of the connector communicate with a separate controller, which isn't necessary or in the 3.1 spec for type-a/b connectors. I don't see anything preventing this from being integrated into modern motherboards, though--motherboards are getting smaller, but so are the components mounted on them.
You would only need to mark which side is up on the connector, then mount it appropriately on your case and connect the other end to your motherboard. This is assuming your motherboard has a usb3.1 controller and the necessary headers, of course.
Edit: I think I see what you're saying. The two pins used to detect the orientation of the connector communicate with a separate controller, which isn't necessary or in the 3.1 spec for type-a/b connectors. I don't see anything preventing this from being integrated into modern motherboards, though--motherboards are getting smaller, but so are the components mounted on them.
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'client end' Type-C does not necessarily imply USB 3.1 (or even USB 3.0). You can have a USB 2.0 device with a Type C socket and be fully in-spec. I'm not so sure as to if that also applies to a dedicated host; if so, you could have a Type-C front panel that terminates in a USB3 (or USB2) motherboard header and remain fully in-spec.
What type of CPU cooler do you have?
I'm using an H75 in an NCASE v2, in the right 120mm side mount (with 2 fans, blowing right onto the power supply, which pulls air in from the back), and it looks like I could fit another 120mm radiator in the left position.
That means an EVGA hybrid cooler or a 390X water cooler might work. I'm just worried about how the tubing will curl up in there, since the tubes on the hybrid cooler look especially long. The tubes for the H75 take up a bit of space as-is. Might only be able to fit 1 fan in either push/pull.
Has anybody tried using two 120mm AIO coolers mounted in the side of this case? Edit: Thanks tblake, I found it on page 817.
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Yes, I'm doing a dual 120mm AIO cooler build right now with a Corsair H55 and an EVGA Titan X Hybrid. Look back a few pages for great pics from "Greasy Bacon" who did a build with an H55 and 980 Hybrid. The combo is tight but very workable. Not sure an H75 will work as the rad is much thicker. I am able to even squeeze in rear and bottom mounted 92mm fans as intakes. I got my M1 today (much earlier than expected) so hope to have the build done by next weekend as I don't have all the parts yet. I will post pics as well when done.
Tom
iFreilicht
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Then how would the reversed connection be detected? Are the pins just mirrored to the other side of the Type-C plug?
Have not gotten the case yet but I am thinking of using a h100i for the CPU. I'm currently just really unsure about the EVGA's cooler. Some people say they do run loud, sometimes even louder than reference design.
Does the EVGA Hybrid make any noticeable noise at idle?
Jonnysupafly
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Has anyone fit a corsair h100i gtx in their ncase? If I use a 240 rad can I still mount 2 2.5 drives at the front of the case?
Nobu
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Yes, they are mirrored (well, technically, rotationally symmetric), but in the case of a cable that goes from Type-C to Type-B/A or to a USB2.0 header, the extra pins are either not used in the connector or are terminated to ground/each-other, depending on whether they are unused in 2.0 or are there just so you can use the connector in either orientation.iFreilicht said:
According to the Type-C Spec, pins 2, 3, 10, and 11 on side A and B of the connector are unused and wires 6-15 aren't included when the cable only supports USB 2.0. The spec includes illustrations and tables describing all combinations of Type-A/B/C cables (or, at least, all combinations that have one side being type-C), if you're interested.
Curiositie
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Guys, I have a dilemma.
I got my hands on a reference 980 for a great price, but need a new PSU since it wont fit with my X-series 650w.
Is it feasible to run it off the SX450-G?
or should I suck it up and deal with the say the SX500-G would introduce?
I got my hands on a reference 980 for a great price, but need a new PSU since it wont fit with my X-series 650w.
Is it feasible to run it off the SX450-G?
or should I suck it up and deal with the say the SX500-G would introduce?
The NCASE started out before the SX600 was available, so all the prototyping with the GTX 980 was with the SX450. So yes, that should work.
Well, back to your original question about which GPU air cooler to go with, Necere made some comments on it awhile back. In short, you are almost certainly better off going with a reference-style blower cooler with the M1.
Depending on the source of the noise with the EVGA hybrid cooler, you may be able to solve the problem with a better fan, like a Noctua NF-F12 PWM. Due to the higher cooling efficiency of the radiator/fan, I would expect the hybrid cooler to be significantly quieter at load than a reference cooler, which I can attest is quite loud.
If you tweak the fan settings of the radiator fan so that it approaches 80°C like the reference cooler does, I imagine it would be very quiet indeed.
Hey guys, very first post here, unsure if i am breaking any rules.
Here is my build, all parts are purchased except for the GPU (which i'm waiting for the AMD to make a move and see what happens). Most parts were previously owned.
I want to know if there are any issues with the storage space and whether i'll have a problem running that RAM CPU and MOBO combination?
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pVPR99
Here is my build, all parts are purchased except for the GPU (which i'm waiting for the AMD to make a move and see what happens). Most parts were previously owned.
I want to know if there are any issues with the storage space and whether i'll have a problem running that RAM CPU and MOBO combination?
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pVPR99
Curiositie
Limp Gawd
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Sounds good, I'll do some more research before making my final decision though.
Thanks for the input!
I'm no expert on watercooling, so maybe a silly question. But It would be a major convenience if I can do my loop in this order res > gpu block > pump > rad > cpu block > res again.
But I've heard people say you can not do this because pump always has to be right after the res, yet I've seen people go against that rule.
So my question is, can I do this? If so what would I have to do differently from a normal loop? Just fill it really carefully and make sure the pump is never dry?
Thanks if anyone can answer this for me
But I've heard people say you can not do this because pump always has to be right after the res, yet I've seen people go against that rule.
So my question is, can I do this? If so what would I have to do differently from a normal loop? Just fill it really carefully and make sure the pump is never dry?
Thanks if anyone can answer this for me
Prototype testing was done with the HD 7970, which was the hottest, most power-hungry single-GPU card available at the time, and represented a good worst-case test subject (within reason). The GTX 980 had yet to be released (or even the GTX 780, for that matter).
You're correct about the 450W ST45SF-G being the highest wattage SFX PSU available then, and it held up fine during testing with the 7970, even running Furmark while overclocked. Modern cards (on the nvidia side especially) don't draw more power than the 7970 did.
Damn, has it been almost a year since that post
Time flies.Everything looks okay, but keep in mind the 3.5" HDD will need to go on the bottom, since the H100i will prevent the HDD cage from being used. Having the drive on the bottom means two things: 1.) there's only room for a single 92mm fan on the bottom, 2.) use a blower GPU, or else the drive will block much of the GPU intake.
Having a 3.5" HDD on the bottom with an air-cooled GPU right above it is honestly not the best choice, since even a blower card leaks/radiates a fair amount of heat, and the drive will run hot. That's especially true for a 7200RPM drive. If you can, I'd replace it with another 2.5" drive, for which there are many more mounting options, and it frees up the bottom of the case for fans.
The reason people recommend against it is because you risk damaging the pump if you run it dry, and it's difficult to get the coolant into the pump when you're first filling the loop if the res isn't right before it. That's not to say you can't do it, you should just be mindful of that and do what you can to avoid running it dry for more than a second or two at a time.
inchikiboze
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I have a cooling question, if there are any takers. I received my M1 v2 last fall, and have been cooling the whole rig with a single Noctua NH-C14 using the low noise adapter cables. It worked like a dream: simple, whisper quiet, decent temps.But alas, summer is here and my temps have risen: into the mid-70's on my CPU, GPU, and mobo under load in a hot room. All within tolerances, but I'd like it cooler. I removed the noise adapters and gave it a good cleaning, and my temps are generally back down into the 60s, but I'm wondering if there is a more efficient, preferably even quieter, way to cool everything. The noise without the adapters is hardly annoying, but it was even better when it was nearly silent.
I also have an H100i lying around, which works fine once it's running, but I tend to sleep/wake my machine often, and when the machine wakes from sleep the H100i goes full-on leafblower for about 10 seconds. I suppose I could alternatively put a couple of 120 mm fans on the bottom of the case.
Here's my basic setup:
Core i5 2500K at stock
Asus P8Z77-i deluxe
Corsair 8 GB RAM
Noctua NH-C14 (top fan only)
EVGA GTX 760 w ACX 2.0 cooler (hoping to upgrade to a blower-style 970 or 980 soon)
Silverstone SX600-g pulling air from outside case
Samsung 840 EVO 500 GB
Here are my options:
1) stick with the NH-C14, with or without adding a few intake fans at the bottom of the case
2) switch to the H100i, try to mitigate the wake-up noise (maybe replace the Corsair fans with something quieter, maybe NF-F12s?)
3) take EVGA up on their generous offer to replace my open-air 760 with a blower-style
4) something else I have not considered
Those with cooling experience: any opinions? Any advice would be appreciated.
I also have an H100i lying around, which works fine once it's running, but I tend to sleep/wake my machine often, and when the machine wakes from sleep the H100i goes full-on leafblower for about 10 seconds. I suppose I could alternatively put a couple of 120 mm fans on the bottom of the case.
Here's my basic setup:
Core i5 2500K at stock
Asus P8Z77-i deluxe
Corsair 8 GB RAM
Noctua NH-C14 (top fan only)
EVGA GTX 760 w ACX 2.0 cooler (hoping to upgrade to a blower-style 970 or 980 soon)
Silverstone SX600-g pulling air from outside case
Samsung 840 EVO 500 GB
Here are my options:
1) stick with the NH-C14, with or without adding a few intake fans at the bottom of the case
2) switch to the H100i, try to mitigate the wake-up noise (maybe replace the Corsair fans with something quieter, maybe NF-F12s?)
3) take EVGA up on their generous offer to replace my open-air 760 with a blower-style
4) something else I have not considered
Those with cooling experience: any opinions? Any advice would be appreciated.
Thats the thing I'm most worried about, sound. Maybe it will be possible separating where to graphic card is and the rest of the case with an acrylic plate might work
. I might go with the reference cooler then watercool some time in the future.I'll emphasise what Necere said about pumps: never run them dry.
So. If the reservoir is above the GPU, and the GPU is above the pump, and the weight of the coolant inside the reservoir allows flow-by-gravitation from res to pump, then you should be okay.
But before you build it all in to your NCase, test res->gpu->pump->res outside the enclosure. This will help you learn how to fill and prime your loop more easily before doing it 'for real' so to speak.
I would just stick with the NH-C14, but exchange the fan for a NF-P14r Redux PWM and adjust the pwm to hit 100% at 80C.
I've done this with my Pentium G3258 @4.5Ghz, and I think it's much more enjoyable than the humming from my previous Corsair H75i. My fans aren't even moving at idle.
Consider using components which generate less heat(< Watt) if you want a quiet cooling solution.
I'm running a reference 980 off of the ST30SF (300W SFX) at stock with no problems, so the 450W will be more than enough even with overclocking.
Curiositie
Limp Gawd
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Wow, that's a setup I'd never have expected to work!
If you don't mind me asking, what case are you using that supports 2 GPU's, but only an SFX PSU?
Or at least, how did you get into the position where you're using the ST30SF for 2 980's?
3) I'd do this for sure.
4) Use 2 120mm fans on the side panel and 1 120mm fan under the heatsink. You don't mention using the HDD bay adapter and you have an SFX PSU, so i'm assuming your side panel is empty.
COUGAR QBX Mini-ITX inspired by NCASE M1 is up for order.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811553020
at a very fair price too, 54.99 + 6.99 shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811553020
at a very fair price too, 54.99 + 6.99 shipping.
Curiositie
Limp Gawd
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Awesome!
The more cases there are like this, the more common SFF builds will be, and it'll be easier for companies to justify putting out SFF parts!
Nobu
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