NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

i'd say that my sx500-lg and reference gtx 970 with backplate fit "perfectly"

the cables are bent obviously but there isn't really any pressure on the card

though i did mount the psu with the fan side facing inwards, so the cables are closer to the back edge of the graphics card, but even before when i didn't have it this way, it wasn't really ridiculously tight.
 
Even without the Arctic Accelero, the general consensus is that airflow in the lower part of the case is a good thing. There isn't a lot of room for it, but air in either direction is better than no fan at all.
Extra fans beneath the GPU's own fans are not needed, proper ducting already improves the GPU's cooling performance. Without the fans "sealed off" on the case floor, they will recycle warm air from inside the case and thus have reduced cooling performance. I'm also pretty sure it will cause more noise than needed. Test this by placing two totally different fans in series and you'll notice "singing" most likely. Or at the very least see the fan that is force-fed air to perform erratically or out-of-spec (over max rpm).

An Arctic Accelero Xtreme in the Ncase M1 supports this because the fans are mounted on the case floor, leaving no gaps for warm air to be recycled. And the heatsink sits right on top of those fans, maximizing efficiency.

The biggest problem is getting rid of the heat that is exhausted from your GPU's heatsink, unless you have a blower-style cooler. I'm going to try to alleviate this by placing a second 120mm fan on the fan bracket (at the front) that exhausts. With pictures, when the fan arrives.
 
I have two SP120s below my MSI GTX 980 which greatly reduce GPU temps at idle and load, and remain completely silent. The "force-fed" GPU fans still behave normally.

The fans also have the benefit of providing airflow to the case while the GPU is not under load, which ducting would not do.
 
The biggest problem is getting rid of the heat that is exhausted from your GPU's heatsink, unless you have a blower-style cooler. I'm going to try to alleviate this by placing a second 120mm fan on the fan bracket (at the front) that exhausts. With pictures, when the fan arrives.

I saw your setup in another post and it's almost exactly the same as mine: Accelero Xtreme IV and Kabuto II.
Just reverse the direction of the GPU fans such that it exhausts downwards and have two fan on the side that blow in. Even in-out air pressure is obtained and the top of the case where the motherboard is remains cool as the Arctic even at full load. This is the optimal full air-cooler set up imo. Of course you probably won't believe that bottom exhaust can cool the GPU and VRM sufficiently, but hypothesises can only be proved or disproved with experiments.
 
I agree with you, it was something I was willing to test if the plan I want to test wouldn't provide better results. Since you indeed have the same setup with good results, I might as well just do it like your setup.

Do you have the Kabuto's fan attached to the heatsink or the fan bracket ?
 
YES! So stoked to see someone actually pull this off! Did you mod your PSU cables, or just cram everything in there? Have you had time to put it through its paces yet?

Yes I modded the PSU cables, I just removed the ones I don't use, which is most of them.

TBH it doesn't work well at all, the 295x2 needs loads of space and extra case airflow to work properly, not to mention that with this set up like it is the CPU cooler effectiveness is reduced massively.

On the whole it's turned out to be a failure, but I haven't lost anything by trying so I'm not too upset about it.
 
Can anyone help me with an air filter problem?
I'm using the demcifilter and when placed next to a gentle typhoon that is pulling in air, the filter would rub against the fan making a very noticeable noise.
I tried to use the included filter that came with the M1 but it would not allow me to close the case when I use the long radiator screws.



 
I agree with you, it was something I was willing to test if the plan I want to test wouldn't provide better results. Since you indeed have the same setup with good results, I might as well just do it like your setup.

Do you have the Kabuto's fan attached to the heatsink or the fan bracket ?

It's attached to the fan bracket but as you might have noticed, the piece of metal that was supposed to prevent the Kabuto II from bending in pulled the heatsink too far towards the socket. So I pulled it out:

KJw8LFFh.jpg


Then I added a 20mm thick fan I had from my NT06-Pro in-between and did a push-pull. This is likely a placebo but it feels good to know my motherboard is ventilated.
Anyway, the point is that the securer can be pulled out and you can pull the heatsink outwards so that there is no gap between side panel <->fan <->heatsink.
 
Can anyone help me with an air filter problem?
I'm using the demcifilter and when placed next to a gentle typhoon that is pulling in air, the filter would rub against the fan making a very noticeable noise.
Install the fan grilles that came with the case between the fans and the bracket.
 
It's attached to the fan bracket but as you might have noticed, the piece of metal that was supposed to prevent the Kabuto II from bending in pulled the heatsink too far towards the socket. So I pulled it out:

Then I added a 20mm thick fan I had from my NT06-Pro in-between and did a push-pull. This is likely a placebo but it feels good to know my motherboard is ventilated.
Anyway, the point is that the securer can be pulled out and you can pull the heatsink outwards so that there is no gap between side panel <->fan <->heatsink.
Pro tips, thx ! I'll soon be replacing the PSU, add a fan and add a heatsink to the GPU's VRM's so I'll get that done in one go.
 
Hey all, I did a search through all the forums but couldn't find anything.
Has anyone else had a problem with optical drive in Windows?

I inherited a Mac slot drive DVDRW model: LG HT-DL-ST GS31N.
Fits fine in my M1 and it is RECOGNIZED in my bios but for some reason I can't see the drive in Windows 7 x64.

Anyone have the same issue or know how to solve it? Do I need a driver? Couldn't find it on the net.
I read somewhere that others are having issues not being detected under AHCI.

I have:
Mobo: ASUS z97i PLUS
CPU: 4770-k CPU
RAM: Patriot Viper 3 16GB
 
I know the general rule now is that the Swiftech H220 is not the best solution for the Ncase M1 (first hand experienced it myself). I have been playing it safe and put it back on a H60 and Reference Nvidia Cooler for the the GTX 780 Ti. Now my GF and I share the same workstation together. We have been playing ESO a lot lately and the NCase is loud because of the reference cooler. I want to put the NCase back into a water cooling setup again.

So quick question regarding how I should do this. I have the water block for the GPU, but I was thinking of going through the Apogee Driver II route. But I do have the old H220 Radiator that also acts as a res. Should I just replace that Radiator/Res with a slim Radiator with fittings? Would a separate reservoir be required?
 
A separate reservoir (frozenq res possibly) is not absolutely required, but does make filling/priming the loop much easier and gives you a buffer to account for evaporation/diffusion of coolant through the tubing over time (this probably takes multiple years to have a noticeable effect, though).
 
You don't need watercooling to solve the noise problem, a good aftermarket cooler will do the same for a fraction of the cost. I started with an H220 for an Intel Core i5-4670K and an EK R9 290X fullcover block. I never got it to work silently in the end, especially when playing games for longer periods of time.

But it did cost $300, while I now only paid around $150 for proper air cooling that can't leak. It is completely silent idle and very quiet with moderate tasks (browsing, watching Netflix) and about as loud as my watercooling setup used to be. I never got my watercooling completely silent. It was somewhat quiet, but nowhere near silent thanks to the pump.

Also something many people "forget" is that limiting your game to your screen's refresh rate (FPS limiter or V-Sync) will also sometimes fix this. Some games just render at a much higher framerate than your screen can show, this is in the end wasted and produces unneeded heat. This is especially true in some games' menus. With Battlefield 4 and a reference R9 290X cooler, people outside of the room could hear when I was in the menu or at the loading screen because it was rendering at hundreds of fps and the GPU's load and power consumption would skyrocket.
 
You don't need watercooling to solve the noise problem, a good aftermarket cooler will do the same for a fraction of the cost. I started with an H220 for an Intel Core i5-4670K and an EK R9 290X fullcover block. I never got it to work silently in the end, especially when playing games for longer periods of time.

But it did cost $300, while I now only paid around $150 for proper air cooling that can't leak. It is completely silent idle and very quiet with moderate tasks (browsing, watching Netflix) and about as loud as my watercooling setup used to be. I never got my watercooling completely silent. It was somewhat quiet, but nowhere near silent thanks to the pump.

I want to echo this sentiment, as this has been my experience as well
 
Depends on what components you add to the loop, and what temperatures you're shooting for.

I would say in general yes it is louder, because the pump will not be the only thing running in your loop - you'll still need a fan or two running at speed, the pump won't be the only thing making noise.

A large, more than adequate air cooler with a quiet fan at stock clocks or slightly overclocked and undervolted will almost certainly be quieter than a water cooling loop.
 
well maybe i'm crazy but i don't actually care about temperature as long there's no throttling

right now i have a 4770k at 4.6ghz,1.27v cooled by a noctua nh-c14, and a reference blower-style gtx970.

the only sources of noise in my system are:
two gentle typhoon ap-14s on the radiator bracket
gtx 970's blower
(i removed the fan from my sx500-lg and cool it with the fan from the radiator bracket)

ap-14s run at 900rpm when idle and the current system is effectively silent when idle/web browsing/whatever

cpu gets up to high 80s when running x264 and 100 (throttles) for other prime and others. the ap-14s are acceptably quiet at full speed for me.
when gaming the gpu blower gets quite loud and that's the main thing i'm not completely satisfied with.

for watercooling i'd consider a single 240 rad on the side, with the same ap-14 fans. so for my case whether air or water would be quieter is down to whether a pump or a gpu's blower is quieter. i'm pretty sure at load the blower would be louder, but what i don't know is how loud a pump at min speed is.
 
well maybe i'm crazy but i don't actually care about temperature as long there's no throttling

right now i have a 4770k at 4.6ghz,1.27v cooled by a noctua nh-c14, and a reference blower-style gtx970.

the only sources of noise in my system are:
two gentle typhoon ap-14s on the radiator bracket
gtx 970's blower
(i removed the fan from my sx500-lg and cool it with the fan from the radiator bracket)

ap-14s run at 900rpm when idle and the current system is effectively silent when idle/web browsing/whatever

cpu gets up to high 80s when running x264 and 100 (throttles) for other prime and others. the ap-14s are acceptably quiet at full speed for me.
when gaming the gpu blower gets quite loud and that's the main thing i'm not completely satisfied with.

for watercooling i'd consider a single 240 rad on the side, with the same ap-14 fans. so for my case whether air or water would be quieter is down to whether a pump or a gpu's blower is quieter. i'm pretty sure at load the blower would be louder, but what i don't know is how loud a pump at min speed is.

It all depends on the pump. I have a H100 atm and the lowest speed the pump runs at is full speed 4700~rpm and is most definitely the loudest part of the system at idle. There are a few people who have the apogee drive as a pump for a custom loop but I don't think anyone has commented on the noise output before that I can recall.
 
It all depends on the pump. I have a H100 atm and the lowest speed the pump runs at is full speed 4700~rpm and is most definitely the loudest part of the system at idle. There are a few people who have the apogee drive as a pump for a custom loop but I don't think anyone has commented on the noise output before that I can recall.

In my previous case, I had an H80i and I was pretty sure that the pump was able to be throttled down (I used a PWM fan header to do so, Corsair software should also do something) - 4700rpm as the "lowest" speed would definitely make it the loudest component for sure. :eek:

The Apogee Drive ii is basically the MCP35X upside down on top of a custom block; so it's really about as loud as the MCP35X is. However, and I might be weird, I found that I have enough turbulence at about 1700rpm (inaudible) and at full tilt I have it going at about 2500rpm (very slight audible whine). Nowhere near the max of 4500rpm.
 
I am sorry to ask, but I was wondering if anyone has recently ordered an M1 with TW Air shipping, and if so, what was the actual time frame for your delivery? Was it 1-2 weeks from the date that they said they ship out (the 25th and the 10th) or was it 1-2 weeks from the date it was actually shipped?

Thanks for any info.
 
would you guys say a pump at minimal speed is louder than a fan at 1000rpm?

The H100i pump is quieter than an Arctic F12 at 1000 RPM. I'd say it makes the same amount of noise as those fans at 600 RPM.

well maybe i'm crazy but i don't actually care about temperature as long there's no throttling

right now i have a 4770k at 4.6ghz,1.27v cooled by a noctua nh-c14, and a reference blower-style gtx970.

ap-14s run at 900rpm when idle and the current system is effectively silent when idle/web browsing/whatever

cpu gets up to high 80s when running x264 and 100 (throttles) for other prime and others. the ap-14s are acceptably quiet at full speed for me.
when gaming the gpu blower gets quite loud and that's the main thing i'm not completely satisfied with.

As I said above, at 600 RPM I can only just hear my Arctic F12s over the pump of my H100i. I do the same as you, my fans run at really low speed at idle and only speed up at high temperatures. The CPU fans only speed up at moderate loads and I usually average 70 C in games. 80 C isn't unusual for non-AVX stress tests. I imagine my CPU would throttle if I tried the current version of Prime95. My GPU fan speed also does not increase at all until it hits 70 C. I've also set my "fan curve" to not be a curve, but a staircase so it's always a constant speed during gaming, no varying noise level.
R7TSpdo.png
I've yet to hit critical temperatures on either CPU or GPU.
 
The NCASE M1 is no longer in stock (the one without the optical drive slot-in).
Does anyone know when it will be in stock/be produced again?
 
Just for the record, if you're using a 160mm long ATX PSU, the Asus 960 STRIX doesn't fit, the heatsink fins are just a hair too long. :(
 
In my previous case, I had an H80i and I was pretty sure that the pump was able to be throttled down (I used a PWM fan header to do so, Corsair software should also do something) - 4700rpm as the "lowest" speed would definitely make it the loudest component for sure. :eek:

The Apogee Drive ii is basically the MCP35X upside down on top of a custom block; so it's really about as loud as the MCP35X is. However, and I might be weird, I found that I have enough turbulence at about 1700rpm (inaudible) and at full tilt I have it going at about 2500rpm (very slight audible whine). Nowhere near the max of 4500rpm.

It's just a H100 rather than the i version. If try to use voltage control anything below full speed is even louder with a buzzing/screeching sound and if I use a low noise adapter from a NF-F12 the pump completely stops.
 
You don't need watercooling to solve the noise problem, a good aftermarket cooler will do the same for a fraction of the cost. I started with an H220 for an Intel Core i5-4670K and an EK R9 290X fullcover block. I never got it to work silently in the end, especially when playing games for longer periods of time.

But it did cost $300, while I now only paid around $150 for proper air cooling that can't leak. It is completely silent idle and very quiet with moderate tasks (browsing, watching Netflix) and about as loud as my watercooling setup used to be. I never got my watercooling completely silent. It was somewhat quiet, but nowhere near silent thanks to the pump.

Also something many people "forget" is that limiting your game to your screen's refresh rate (FPS limiter or V-Sync) will also sometimes fix this. Some games just render at a much higher framerate than your screen can show, this is in the end wasted and produces unneeded heat. This is especially true in some games' menus. With Battlefield 4 and a reference R9 290X cooler, people outside of the room could hear when I was in the menu or at the loading screen because it was rendering at hundreds of fps and the GPU's load and power consumption would skyrocket.

Hey Phuncz, it's been a while. I think it was your build that encouraged me to put my 4770k/780 Ti under water with the H220. But Peter rejected my RMA because of the 450w PSU. Since then the H60 was a temporarily cooler and the 780 Ti is back on a reference cooler. I don't mind the H60, it's just that the reference cooling is always loud under heavy load. My GF is playing on a X-Star 1440p at only 60hz. I find myself setting the fan curve near 75-80% around 90 degrees already to reach that FPS.

I have been looking and waiting for the Kelvin S24. Trying to find a loop to import it to the states. But I'm getting impatient and am considering the Apogee Drive II. The NCase Reservoir is still being debated.

For kicks, I did find a German seller on Amazon.com that was importing a S24 for nearly $350.00+.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00T2PSCYU/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Too silly for my liking. I also follow /r/buildapcsales a lot and had a discussion with NCIXAnthony regarding Canadian stocks and US sales of the H220 and Kelvin S24. He did mention that both US and Canadian sites share the same inventory, but I still haven't seen it been in their inventory yet.

In my previous case, I had an H80i and I was pretty sure that the pump was able to be throttled down (I used a PWM fan header to do so, Corsair software should also do something) - 4700rpm as the "lowest" speed would definitely make it the loudest component for sure. :eek:

The Apogee Drive ii is basically the MCP35X upside down on top of a custom block; so it's really about as loud as the MCP35X is. However, and I might be weird, I found that I have enough turbulence at about 1700rpm (inaudible) and at full tilt I have it going at about 2500rpm (very slight audible whine). Nowhere near the max of 4500rpm.

Hey ghostwich, did you find the 1700rpm inaudible for the Apogee Drive II or the H80i? I would imagine each is different noise level for the same pump rate.



You're just suppose to install the Apogee Drive II with the connector to the CPU Fanheader right? And the motherboard can control the speed from there? I was thinking of setting up slow quiet air pressure fans with the pump.
 
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Hey Phuncz, it's been a while. I think it was your build that encouraged me to put my 4770k/780 Ti under water with the H220. But Peter rejected my RMA because of the 450w PSU.
Hi ! I have used your example of Swiftech "Lack of Tech Support" as a prime example why we should look elsewhere for watercooling setup. I've seen too many stupid reasons they don't grant warranty, it's silly.

I've had issues too with the H220, it wasn't working out of the box. But back then I thought: oh well, could happen to anyone. And all was well until my GPU block started leaking and I had to completely disassemble my case and replace the entire loop (with air cooling) so I could send it for repair (it took over a month).

While watercooling is a viable solution for the Ncase and in some situations even ideal, I'm convinced that air cooling is not far behind. In my example, I expect my pump is to blame, I am able to achieve a much quieter system. Only some issues during load I need to figure out but that will be tested soon.
 
Yeah, I'm using a H220 right now. I had a leak on the radiator where the elbow barb is. Luckily, the liquid didn't get on any hardware. Since there aren't any replacement radiators, I had two choices: repair the radiator or buy a new solution. I winded up repairing mine by stuffing the barb in, clamping it to make sure it won't come out easy, and using JB Weld. I tested my loop running for 3 days... (Overkill, I know). But everything works for weeks, and now one of my RAM slots failed. Coincidence?!? I wonder if I hit the ram when I was removing and installing the cpu cooler.

Also, can anyone tell me how quick disconnects work and if there is something you could recommend me to use. With such a limited space, I think having Quick no-leak Disconnects for watercooling might be worth it? Or is it not worth it?
 
It's just a H100 rather than the i version. If try to use voltage control anything below full speed is even louder with a buzzing/screeching sound and if I use a low noise adapter from a NF-F12 the pump completely stops.

The low noise adapters from Noctua are inline resistors that will drop the voltage across the board - which is why it might be too low to even start the pump going. I truly thought that voltage control on the Corsair pumps would work but maybe the H100 is different than the H100i/H110/H80i? Maybe you should look into it (as any buzzing/screeching generally should invoke concern).

Hey ghostwich, did you find the 1700rpm inaudible for the Apogee Drive II or the H80i? I would imagine each is different noise level for the same pump rate.

You're just suppose to install the Apogee Drive II with the connector to the CPU Fanheader right? And the motherboard can control the speed from there? I was thinking of setting up slow quiet air pressure fans with the pump.

Hello - I was talking about the Apogee Drive II - I truly cannot remember what RPM I used to run the H80i pump at.

Yes it has a 4-pin fan connector for reporting the RPM as well as controlling it (power to the pump is provided via 4-pin molex and without any PWM control signal it will run at 100% - 4500rpm). The motherboard's headers (maybe even 3-pin/voltage-control?) should be able to control the pump (but I think even Swiftech recommends to use the CPU fan header).
 
The low noise adapters from Noctua are inline resistors that will drop the voltage across the board - which is why it might be too low to even start the pump going. I truly thought that voltage control on the Corsair pumps would work but maybe the H100 is different than the H100i/H110/H80i? Maybe you should look into it (as any buzzing/screeching generally should invoke concern).
*snip*

Yeah I know how the LNA's work which is why I tried it. The H100 is a OEM version of a now discontinued product that costs less than £50 so pump quality isn't very good. I've been looking into getting a Coolermaster Nepton but have yet to get round to it due to constant replacement of 980's as I have yet to find one that doesn't buzz under load.
 
Hai guys,

I am new here. NCASE M1 is my first pc build. Thanks to the Necere and Wahaha for their hard work. I wonder if Asus Matrix GTX 980 can fit in this case?
 
Hey all, I did a search through all the forums but couldn't find anything.
Has anyone else had a problem with optical drive in Windows?

I inherited a Mac slot drive DVDRW model: LG HT-DL-ST GS31N.
Fits fine in my M1 and it is RECOGNIZED in my bios but for some reason I can't see the drive in Windows 7 x64.

Anyone have the same issue or know how to solve it? Do I need a driver? Couldn't find it on the net.
I read somewhere that others are having issues not being detected under AHCI.

I have:
Mobo: ASUS z97i PLUS
CPU: 4770-k CPU
RAM: Patriot Viper 3 16GB

Can anyone provide any insight on my slimline optical drive issue?
Tinkering with it some more, I found out that
- the BIOS recognizes the optical
- Device Manager lists the optical
- I can send an eject command to it and the motor tries to eject anything in the drive

The problem seems to be that whatever sensor that triggers the drive to "pull" the disc in isn't triggered and so the drive doesn't ever load the disc. The drive worked perfectly in the macbook pro it came from.

Does anyone know if something to initialize the drive needs to be done?
 
Can anyone provide any insight on my slimline optical drive issue?
Tinkering with it some more, I found out that
- the BIOS recognizes the optical
- Device Manager lists the optical
- I can send an eject command to it and the motor tries to eject anything in the drive

The problem seems to be that whatever sensor that triggers the drive to "pull" the disc in isn't triggered and so the drive doesn't ever load the disc.

If possible, try changing to a different SATA power cable (or adapter) for the ODD. Necere and a few others had similar issues, where the ODD eject mechanism appeared to work, but it would never pull the disc into the drive..

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040135044&postcount=4787

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040676605&postcount=10892

Good luck!
 
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