NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Siba

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
341
Which GTX 970s are you guys ordering? My MSI 970 gaming 4g has pretty bad coilwhine under load. Sounds like a chirping cricket in my case, and the EK thermosphere waterblock doesn't clear the side panel while mounted on the 970, whereas it fit on my 670.

EVGA and MSI are off my list of possibilities, and the Asus strix looks like a no-go as well due to other clearance issues in the Ncase m1. It also looks like the Gigabyte card may be too long
 

mbondPDX

n00b
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
16
My case just arrived and is sitting under my desk here at work. Can't wait to get home and build in this thing. Such torture.
 

PlayfulPhoenix

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
302
if anyone wants to sell me their ncase hit me up

I'd suggest trying to keep tabs on the forum and NCASE website. Per Necere:

We do have some extras that should be going up for sale later in the month - there's an email signup on the website if you'd like to be notified. Bear in mind that last time we did that we had about the same amount (~60), and they sold out in a few minutes. Another batch is a definite possibility as well, but that will take a bit longer.

You can also find a few people selling theirs, though the asking prices are somewhat inflated.

I'm hoping to get another case as well, since I wouldn't mind a spare and very much want some silver panels to compliment the black ones I have... but I can't quite justify the $100+ premium that resellers on ebay seem to be asking. :rolleyes:

That 5-minute-sellout is pretty daunting, though. We'll be far from the only ones angling to get a case, especially since the resale markup is so large.
 

AFD

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
2,154
Any chance we could buy the PSU cable separately? That's probably the best improvement on the V2 cases and I would love it for my V1.

Email W360 (info AT ncases.com) to order the M1 v2 PSU cable. There is a right-angle and a left-angle to choose from.. think they're around $10 each.

I had no idea which would work the best, so I ordered one of each (and some extra plastic clips and spare screws).. should have them tomorrow.
 

adamlee05

n00b
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
25
Can't assemble my build because of the excessive paint inside the motherboard standoffs. Already stripped one screw trying to clear out the paint, and I'm worried I'm going to bend the case due to the amount of torque I'm having to use to turn the screws. No, they're not cross threaded.....

Uhg.
 

adamlee05

n00b
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
25
Can't assemble my build because of the excessive paint inside the motherboard standoffs. Already stripped one screw trying to clear out the paint, and I'm worried I'm going to bend the case due to the amount of torque I'm having to use to turn the screws. No, they're not cross threaded.....

Uhg.

Additionally, the upper-right standoff free spins after a few turns of the screw, which is now stuck in thes standoff. Is this real??????

My beautiful case is now useless. Great QC.

Do I need to talk to necere or wahaha about this? I doubt I can use this for my build now, as I can't secure the motherboard tightly at all, and can't even install it with a mobo screw in the way.
 
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Necere

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Jan 3, 2003
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2,783
Can't assemble my build because of the excessive paint inside the motherboard standoffs. Already stripped one screw trying to clear out the paint, and I'm worried I'm going to bend the case due to the amount of torque I'm having to use to turn the screws. No, they're not cross threaded.....

Uhg.
Paint in the standoffs? First time I've heard of that. Are you sure you're using the correct screws? They're threaded for M3, which is type "G" in this pic.

If it is in fact defective, we'll have to replace it. Take pics as best you can of the standoffs and send them in an email to w360 (info at ncases).

Anyone know the max width in millimeters for fans + 240mm radiator on the side of case with an sfx psu?
85mm.
 

AFD

2[H]4U
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Aug 7, 2013
Messages
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They're threaded for M3, which is type "G" in this pic.

Perhaps folks are trying to use the PSU mounting screws w/the ridged underside (as these actually look like common mobo screws, though they don't fit at all). During my last tear-down, I caught myself almost doing the same thing out of habit.
 

GL1zdA

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Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
8
Did you have to pay VAT as well? I mean did they calculate the VAT and you had to pay it at the post office? If so, then what tariff code was assigned? If not, then nevermind my question ;)
I haven't payed for the NCASE because they ignored it and just put a stamp "Dopuszczone do obrotu na terenie RP" or something. But when I bought other things I had to pay 23% (I don't think anything computer related will get the 7% tariff).
 

Sanguineus

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Aug 14, 2014
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I haven't payed for the NCASE because they ignored it and just put a stamp "Dopuszczone do obrotu na terenie RP" or something. But when I bought other things I had to pay 23% (I don't think anything computer related will get the 7% tariff).

Thanks, I am going to pay them visit today and hopefully get my case. I am not angry about the VAT, I am angry about the delay. The package is at customs since 25th September and all they did was send me a note... Like they couldn't calculate the VAT on their own and give the case back to post office... Well, anyway, hope to get my case today :)
 

WiSK

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Oct 28, 2011
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Thanks, I am going to pay them visit today and hopefully get my case. I am not angry about the VAT, I am angry about the delay. The package is at customs since 25th September and all they did was send me a note... Like they couldn't calculate the VAT on their own and give the case back to post office... Well, anyway, hope to get my case today :)

They can calculate the tax, of course. Lian Li put the correct documentation on the package. But sometimes they do spot-checks to see if what is on the package corresponds with the actual monetary transaction.
 

inchikiboze

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
69
Hi, everybody. I'm finally putting my V2 build together, and I've run into a couple of issues beyond my own knowledge and what I could find out digging around on the forums. This is only the second PC I've built, and I'm a bit out of my depth.

1. Dust filters

I am using the fans on my Corsair H100i on intake to ventilate the entire case, along with my EVGA GTX 760 (open-air) and the fan on the Silverstone SST SX600-g. I see that some dust filters came with the case--can I just use these? Is there a recommended method for installing these, e.g. sandwiching them between the bracket where the H100i radiator is mounted and the radiator itself, using the screws included with the cooler? Or would it be better to buy the M1 filters from Demciflex, which seem to be popular, and apply these to the outside of the case?

2. Cooling the open-air GTX 760

I know that this question has been asked to death, but I can't seem to find a satisfactory answer for my situation. I know that the 760 is not a terribly hot card, but I am still worried about the heat being trapped in the case. I found some people in similar situations on the forum, and sometimes they use exhaust fans to solve the problem, while in another place, someone seemed to say that a 240 mm radiator on intake would eliminate the need for exhaust fans. Can I get away with the H100i on intake, maybe if I also orient my power supply to suck air from outside of the case? I will do my own testing, of course, but if someone has some wisdom here, I would appreciate it. I started off with a blower-style GTX 570, but when I sent it to EVGA recently for service, they upgraded me to the 760. I'm grateful, but it has complicated my M1 build a bit.

Here is my setup:

Core i5 2500K
Asus P8Z77-i Deluxe
8 GB Corsair 1300 MHz
EVGA GTX 760 w ACX cooler
Intel 320 120 GB SSD
Corsair H100i
Silverstone SX600-g

Many thanks, everyone. I wouldn't have attempted the build in the first place without all of the findings documented here.
 

icc0rz

n00b
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
40
Which GTX 970s are you guys ordering? My MSI 970 gaming 4g has pretty bad coilwhine under load. Sounds like a chirping cricket in my case, and the EK thermosphere waterblock doesn't clear the side panel while mounted on the 970, whereas it fit on my 670.

EVGA and MSI are off my list of possibilities, and the Asus strix looks like a no-go as well due to other clearance issues in the Ncase m1. It also looks like the Gigabyte card may be too long

I just swapped out my HD 6950 for Gainward's GTX 970 with the blower style cooler. The overall quality of the cooler seems kinda cheap, and the fan breaks the sound barrier from time to time under high load. I'm considering swapping out the cooler if tuning the fan control doesn't work. Haven't heard any coilwhine yet, but haven't really be listening either.
 

Sanguineus

n00b
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
35
They can calculate the tax, of course. Lian Li put the correct documentation on the package. But sometimes they do spot-checks to see if what is on the package corresponds with the actual monetary transaction.

Well then, the values do not correspond as on the package the value of the case is 90$ and the transaction is for 185$. Plus shipping of course. I have just collected my M1. I am holding it right now under my other arm ;) Of course, the customs office used the higher price (not the one on the package, but the one from PayPal) to calculate the tax. I'll post some pictures of the case soon.
 

Urelure

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
459
Hi, everybody. I'm finally putting my V2 build together, and I've run into a couple of issues beyond my own knowledge and what I could find out digging around on the forums. This is only the second PC I've built, and I'm a bit out of my depth.

1. Dust filters

I am using the fans on my Corsair H100i on intake to ventilate the entire case, along with my EVGA GTX 760 (open-air) and the fan on the Silverstone SST SX600-g. I see that some dust filters came with the case--can I just use these? Is there a recommended method for installing these, e.g. sandwiching them between the bracket where the H100i radiator is mounted and the radiator itself, using the screws included with the cooler? Or would it be better to buy the M1 filters from Demciflex, which seem to be popular, and apply these to the outside of the case?h

2. Cooling the open-air GTX 760

I know that this question has been asked to death, but I can't seem to find a satisfactory answer for my situation. I know that the 760 is not a terribly hot card, but I am still worried about the heat being trapped in the case. I found some people in similar situations on the forum, and sometimes they use exhaust fans to solve the problem, while in another place, someone seemed to say that a 240 mm radiator on intake would eliminate the need for exhaust fans. Can I get away with the H100i on intake, maybe if I also orient my power supply to suck air from outside of the case? I will do my own testing, of course, but if someone has some wisdom here, I would appreciate it. I started off with a blower-style GTX 570, but when I sent it to EVGA recently for service, they upgraded me to the 760. I'm grateful, but it has complicated my M1 build a bit.

Here is my setup:

Core i5 2500K
Asus P8Z77-i Deluxe
8 GB Corsair 1300 MHz
EVGA GTX 760 w ACX cooler
Intel 320 120 GB SSD
Corsair H100i
Silverstone SX600-g

Many thanks, everyone. I wouldn't have attempted the build in the first place without all of the findings documented here.

I've actually asked almost the same questions recently and concluded to, like you, test for myself.

A few thing bacem clear. For the filters the bundled ones ae meant to be sandwiched like you suggest. There seems to be a general consensus that demciflex filters are better though.

As for cooling your card i would suggdst to do it like you want to do it first. If temps and noise are adequate your golden. If not, time to test fan setups. Wisk suggested to me to start with no fans and then test with fans in different positions to se how it influences the temps.
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
13
Paint in

85mm.

85mm eh so I can fit a 35mm width H105 + 4 120mm x 25mm fans in push/pull that will literally be right at the 85mm limit. Will it be extremely crammed if I go to the very limit? Basically what are the clearances if i go to the 85mm max?
 

JaccoW

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
100
here are two pictures of an Asus Strix 970 and the NCase M1..
It's kind of a battle to squeeze the card in the case.
because of the high pcb you get in trouble with the metal for the side panel clamps - you have to take one of them out! and the pin from the side panel hits exactly the top of the pcb, therefore bending the side panel a little bit.

jioP8Ej.jpg
It's just the corner right?

So basically this could work, provided you are crazy/rich enough to dremel a corner out of the pcb and put water cooling on it. :p
Provided there are no traces running underneath.
 

PlayfulPhoenix

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
302
Any word on when this will be available for order again?

Per the FAQ by yours truly:

Can I still purchase the NCASE M1? How/where/when can I order?

Pre-ordering for NCASE M1 Rev 2 was open until June 22, but has since closed. However, a small quantity of cases have been set aside to be used as replacements for any defective units, and Necere has commented on the intention to hold a fire sale of such units if there are any remaining (once all ordered M1's are shipped and inspected by their owners). That said, to stay updated on future availability, check this thread frequently, and visit the official website.

There may be a third run sometime in the future, but Necere has (at best) just suggested that this is a possibility - no plans for such a run have been announced. Which isn't surprising given that plenty of people who ordered a V2 still haven't received their cases yet :p
 

Notting

n00b
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
32
It's just the corner right?

So basically this could work, provided you are crazy/rich enough to dremel a corner out of the pcb and put water cooling on it. :p
Provided there are no traces running underneath.

no need to dremel anything on your pcb!
just take out the pin clamp, case side. and you might have to take off one of the side-panel-pins that hits the pcb from above.
using a watercooler to replace the heatpipes is a definite plus for not bending and heating the side panel :)
 

einmannbude

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
128
Hey there,

got a letter last week, that my two cases arrived here in Germany, stored at customs. On monday and after another 67€ (for both cases) I could take them home.

Since the Silverstone 600W PSU will not be shipped before 10th of October, I have some time planning the build. Although I was following the thread for a while, I am none the wiser which components to chose when it goes to a full water-cooling pipe. Availability of parts in Germany is making the project even more complicated. So, maybe you can help me out with an advice. It would be greatly appreciated, because it will be my first custom water loop.

Here is, what I am already owning or have ordered or planned:
  • Gigabyte Z77N wifi
  • Intel 3570k CPU
  • 16GB RAM (forgot brand and too lazy to look for)
  • Geforce 970 or 980 with full waterblock (kinda undecided here)
  • 3x 2.5" SSD/HDD
  • Optical drive
  • Silverstone 600W PSU
Where I need help which one to order:
  • Radiator - pump integrated?
  • Radiator fans
  • Reservoir - love the M1 res, but is not available at the moment and I don't want to extend the case volume too much by bulky reservoirs
  • CPU Waterblock - pump integrated here?
  • Compression fittings - which angle, which diameter?
  • Tubing - which diameter?
Since I change my graphics card quite often, would it make sense to integrate quick disconnectors in the loop around the card? Would there be enough room to do so?

Thanks for any help.
 

JaccoW

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
100
no need to dremel anything on your pcb!
just take out the pin clamp, case side. and you might have to take off one of the side-panel-pins that hits the pcb from above.
using a watercooler to replace the heatpipes is a definite plus for not bending and heating the side panel :)
Thanks for the update. :)

Would you mind making a picture of the offending area with some more light?
The Asus is the more desirable 970 cards with its connectors and extra features. It's good to hear it does fit... but with some disclaimers.

Though as you can see here, there don't seem to be any traces on the top-left corner:
motherboard_picture_PCB.jpg
 
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bencho

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
2,093
Per the FAQ by yours truly:



There may be a third run sometime in the future, but Necere has (at best) just suggested that this is a possibility - no plans for such a run have been announced. Which isn't surprising given that plenty of people who ordered a V2 still haven't received their cases yet :p

WOW I completely derped and did not see that :(
I guess my recent excitement from the decision to go from ATX to mini ITX blinded me
:eek:
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
13
Is the Strix the only gtx 970/980 that doesn't fit 100% correctly? Has anyone tried the msi gaming card? I'm quite partial to the twin frozr V design which also doesn't spin up fans for idle and low power use.

Considering where my funds are at I'm probably just going to wait for i7-5770k broadwell and if i wait that long maybe should just wait for gm210 cause if gm204 is already beating gk110 gm210 is going to be crazy off the charts 8GB ram 512 bit bus 7ghz clock. My current desktop i7-980x rampage III formula 2GB sapphire toxic radeon 5870 while it isn't record breaking i wouldn't be hurting to wait till next fall for broadwell/gm210.

But I would still like to know if the msi gaming twin frozr 5 cards fit without issue 100% incase i do build
 

Siba

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
341
i'll try and take some measurements when i get home for you, but i can't guarantee 100% accurate results as i'm unwilling to take the whole setup apart just for that :D i'll see if i can compare the measurements from my waterblock to the measurements on the same mounting points on the stock cooler
 

JaccoW

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
100
Since the pcb is most likely multi-layered, there may still be traces in at least one of the invisible layers.
Yeah probably, I could only know for sure once I get my hands on it and shine some bright lights on there. It's a stupid idea anyway.
Especially since with some care it might fit anyway. But just barely.

Now that the GTX 970/980 are out, I think we should make a list of the cards that do/don't fit in the case.

The EVGA SC ACX and EVGA FTW are both standard width and will fit.
Gigabyte G1 is standard width, but very long (~30 cm) because the cooler extends past the PCB. It will fit, but it will be tight.
The ASUS Strix doesn't fit because it's too wide.
MSI's Gaming cooler is 5.51" wide. It is technically wider than the 5.5" max width specified on ncases.com.
Gainward Phantom is roughly standard width and should fit. It is a 2½ slot cooler though so you definitely can't fit a 3.5" drive under it. It might be too wide since it's a 3-slot cooler?
Zotac Omega edition is supposedly 5.43" wide so it should technically fit, but extremely tightly. Zotac Extreme is 5.55" and probably too wide. The Zotac non-AMP aftermarket cooler is standard width and fits.

3 x expansion slots:
- 1 & 2 support 12.5" (317.5 mm) GPU cards
- 3 supports 11" cards (279.4mm)
- Max width: 5.5"or 139.7 mm.

Overview of GTX970 models
(V) Gigabyte = 312/298mm x 129mm x 43mm (Might be tricky. Guru3D says it is shorter) PCB
(X) Inno3D = 300mm x 115mm (3-slot design makes it too long)
(X) Asus = 280mm x 140mm x 40mm (PCB itself is too wide, requires NCase modification) PCB
(V) MSI = 269mm x 141mm x 35 (Aircooler is officially too wide but people seem to be able to fit them) PCB
(V) Palit = 247mm x 126mm
(V) Gainward = 247mm x 112mm (The Phantom does seem to have a really short PCB. 3-slot cooler though) PCB
(V) Evga = 241.3mm x 111.15mm
(V) Zotac = 224mm x 111.15mm (Only the non-OC models though)

The MSI is starting to look like a mighty fine card for watercooling though. But so does the Gainward as it is trading blows with the MSI and looks like it can be shortened to 182mm with a full cover GTX 670 block!
 
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Necere

2[H]4U
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Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,783
85mm eh so I can fit a 35mm width H105 + 4 120mm x 25mm fans in push/pull that will literally be right at the 85mm limit. Will it be extremely crammed if I go to the very limit? Basically what are the clearances if i go to the 85mm max?
85mm is the actual space between the fan bracket and the SFX PSU/bracket. In your scenario it means the PSU would be blocking the forward fan. This build shows the clearance with a 56mm rad and 25mm fans, though he modded the fan housing so they sit inside the radiator by a couple mm. Total thickness is probably around 78mm.

I still recommend against anything more than a slim rad + one set of fans (<60mm thick), since airflow will suffer and running the tubing becomes more difficult. But it's up to you.
 

Evangelion

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Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
33
My tracking info on the USPS website says that my case is out for delivery... in another city that I don't live in.

I'd like to know whats going on here.
 
D

Deleted member 222586

Guest
My tracking info on the USPS website says that my case is out for delivery... in another city that I don't live in.

I'd like to know whats going on here.

:D :D :D :D

Well, maybe the tracking is not working... why dont you call them and ask them about it?
 

Evangelion

n00b
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Dec 27, 2013
Messages
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:D :D :D :D

Well, maybe the tracking is not working... why dont you call them and ask them about it?

I just got off the phone with them. They told me that Sun City Ca was the shipping info that they received. I'm located in Santa Ana Ca, and I used the same Paypal account that I used to place my order of my ver1 NCASE M1.
 

Necere

2[H]4U
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Messages
2,783
I just got off the phone with them. They told me that Sun City Ca was the shipping info that they received. I'm located in Santa Ana Ca, and I used the same Paypal account that I used to place my order of my ver1 NCASE M1.
Is the package addressed to you? I'm thinking it's possible you just got the wrong tracking number. Send an email to w360 about it.
 

WiSK

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
2,207
I am none the wiser which components to chose when it goes to a full water-cooling pipe. Availability of parts in Germany is making the project even more complicated. So, maybe you can help me out with an advice. It would be greatly appreciated, because it will be my first custom water loop.

Many great watercooling companies are based in Germany: Aquacomputer, Watercool and there is also the more budget oriented Aquatuning/Alphacool/Phobya group. Then nearby in Slovenia the excellent EK Water Blocks.

To answer your questions:
  • Radiator - pump integrated? I don't believe there is any rad+pump combo that fits in the M1
  • Radiator fans Noiseblocker eLoops B12-PS (German!)
  • Reservoir - love the M1 res, but is not available at the moment and I don't want to extend the case volume too much by bulky reservoirs
    Then either get a Swiftech rad with integrated reservoir, or buy a short PCB 970 and have a pump+res combo in the free space.
  • CPU Waterblock - pump integrated here? Swiftech Apogee Drive II is an option, but hard to get in Germany I think - can try Highflow in the Netherlands
  • Compression fittings - which angle, which diameter? EK fittings are quite small, Alphacool are cheap if you want to try things out. Size must match tubing...
  • Tubing - which diameter? I use 16mm outer diameter 10mm inner - also called 3/8"-5/8" in USA
  • Since I change my graphics card quite often, would it make sense to integrate quick disconnectors in the loop around the card? Would there be enough room to do so? QDCs tend to be huge, I wouldn't risk it.

One tip for beginners: test out your water loop outside the case, away from any hardware, and learn how it all works.
 

Alakan

n00b
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
24
A user by the name of callumbolch told me that he installed an XFX R9 290 Double Dissipation in his M1 with no problems.

These are the measurements from XFX's website.

Card Dimension (cm) : 29.5 x 14.3 x 4.2
Card Dimension (inch) : 11.61 x 5.63 x 1.65
 

adamlee05

n00b
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
25
Paint in the standoffs? First time I've heard of that. Are you sure you're using the correct screws? They're threaded for M3, which is type "G" in this pic.

If it is in fact defective, we'll have to replace it. Take pics as best you can of the standoffs and send them in an email to w360 (info at ncases).

85mm.

Yeah inside the standoffs. Two had globs of black material inside the threads (upper left and right), and the other two had enough of the same material to prevent threading past 2 or 3 full turns. I ended up driving across town to work and grabbed a tapping set from our machine shop, which made pretty quick work of it. I was pretty pissed about the standoff that began free spinning and had the stuck screw in it, but I used some needle nosed locking pliers to hold it while I removed the screw/ran the tap/installed the motherboard. It all worked out in the end and I finished he build late last night. Also, I made sure I was using the correct round-head Phillips motherboard screws from the start. Before I even got my case I remembered seeing a diagram from page 472 listing the screws uses. I got pretty pissed having ran into those 2 problems immediately starting my build and having to drive 30 minutes to fix it, but its taken care of. Thanks for the quick reply anyhow, Necere.

Now to figure out how to better manage the SX600-G cables and H220 lines.
 
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