NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

enyownz said:
With Noctua NH-C14, is it better having the fans in default (blowing down on motherboard) or reverse ( away from motherboard).
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okwchin said:
In the Ncase M1, you will find that having fan blowing down should give you even better temps as you are pulling in Cold air from the outside of the case (the fan is nicely positioned against the side grille).

Reversing the direction will in this case help to exhaust air, but you will be pulling air that is pre-warmed, therefore your temps will be higher by the temperature delta of your case temp over external air temp.

Just ensure that you give the fan enough room in front of the blades, regardless of its orientation (blowing on or away from the mobo). Experimentation is easy too.

The C14 is a great cooler for this case as it has the perfect height to make use of the side vent if you intend to use it as a side intake, especially if you have a non-blower style GPU, as this is the only way you can ensure CPU temps are isolated from GPU temps. Any other cooler might do well in open air, but in the NCase, a non-blower will make any other CPU cooler work extra hard because it cops all the hot air from the GPU.
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AFD said:
I would think top-down (taking in fresh air and blowing it through the C14 towards the mobo) would probably work best.. at least that's how mine's setup on my C12. You can try it either way, and see what works best for you.
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I am curious about this too. I read that some people got better temps with the fans blowing *away* from the motherboard, though they were probably not using an M1 case. I do have the C14 and Asus Z77 ITX, but I don't have the M1 case yet. Even if I reverse the fans I'm not sure how applicable my results are on M1's, but I will post some updates later. I currently have them blowing down using the 140mm fan on top and SP120 at the bottom. The 120mm fan did help by the way vs just cpu one fan.

From my experience with intake/exhaust using different cases, I have gotten better temps with more exhaust than intake aka negative pressure (though at the cost of extra dust coming in from tiny holes). But regardless of how many intake/exhaust there are, the airflow is the most important. Make sure that hot air is not trapped and reheated inside the case or in any component.

If your GPU is open air then I'm more likely to vote using the C14 as an exhaust. I'm just not sure where else the hot GPU air will go except rise towards the top CPU fan. Either the hot air gets sucked in by the CPU fan or trapped between the CPU and GPU. Either way is not good.
 
I think this side panel spacing issue is common on V2. My silver V2 also has the same problem. Only left side panel's rear top corner is aligned with top panel perfectly. Other corners are about 1mm over the top panel.

It was just for an information, I don't care about it though.
 
I paid more for this case than I have for any other case I've ever had. If my side panels are not aligned perfectly, I want the unit replaced!

Still have a month to go though before I find out whether mine has this problem.
 
I reversed the fan airflow on my Noctua NH C14 from blowing towards the motherboard to away. Here's my results. Note that I am not using an M1 since I don't have it yet. I'm using Rosewill R101 with the side panel open.

Asus Z77 ITX Deluxe
Intel i5 2500k @ 4.2Ghz
Reference Radeon 7970 (non-Ghz edition)
Corsair SP120 bottom CPU fan

Ambient 22C
Idle CPU 37C - Max 59C
Idle GPU 62C - 84C

Ambient 26C
Idle CPU 40C - Max 60C
Idle GPU 62C - 84C
 
Allied said:
I think this side panel spacing issue is common on V2. My silver V2 also has the same problem. Only left side panel's rear top corner is aligned with top panel perfectly. Other corners are about 1mm over the top panel.
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Think so, too, as I got the same problems now that everybody has mentioned it. Additionally at the rear is a small distance between left panel and top panel (max 1mm).
 
I've noticed that my panel alignment and the very slight gaps between panels will change a little every time I take them on and off. I think this is mostly due to the panels warping slightly when being removed and replaced, and also how the panel pins are locked into the plastic retaining clips (there seems to be a little play in how they are seated).

Slightly flexing the panels as needed, and sliding the panels around (once locked in position) seems to help keep things aligned. Putting the top panel on first, then the sides, and then the front also seems to work best for avoiding misalignment and gaps caused by areas where the panels may be fitting too closely together.
 
Necere said:
Did you get air shipping, and do you have a tracking number? Because you should have it by now if so. You may want to contact the package delivery service about it.
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I choose TW surface because wasn't in a hurry to get the case as this will be my 2nd ncase.

I never knew surface will be this slow.... T_T
 
It's probably pretty late in the game for this, but I'd like to move to a custom watercooling solution. Is there a consensus on what dimension of tubing to shoot for? I haven't really kept up much on the parts available, but I'm assuming most things are G1/4 fittings now. Here are my planned parts:

Swiftech MCP35X
Swiftech Apogee HD
Alphacool Nexxos ST30 240mm
Adamantium reservoir
Gentletyphoon AP15 x2
Monsoon Free Center compression fittings

Can anyone comment on the feasibilty of this? Taking a look at the spreadsheet, it should fit with my other components:

Asus z87 impact
Gigabyte GTX 670 windforce
Crucial VLP memory
Silverstone 600w sfx psu
2x 2.5" drives (9mm) one on each side of the front panel mounts

Are the XT45 radiators noticeably more capable at cooling than the ST30? Will that make things a much tighter/impossible fit? I do plan to eventually add the GPU into the loop if GTX 8-series maxwell makes a good showing, and would like to overclock the 4770k that I have to the 4-4.5ghz range, while leaving the GPU stock
 
i have a very similar setup like your planned build.

M1 Ncase V1

Swiftech MCP35X
EK Full Copper
Swiftech 240mm 25mm thickness
ForzenQ M1 Res
Gentletyphoon AP15 x2
3/8"ID 5/8"OD barbs

on
Asrock z87 itx
i7 4770k @ 4.0ghz
GTX 780Ti with EK fullblock stock clock with boost @ 1ghz.
crucial ballistic VLP
silverstone SFX 450gold with flat cables
480gb msata

while gaming i get about 50-55 celcius on the gpu and 60-65 on the cpu.

I have been running this setup for about 6-7 months now, and it is very stable. If you want, I can get some pics.
 
Siba said:
It's probably pretty late in the game for this, but I'd like to move to a custom watercooling solution. Is there a consensus on what dimension of tubing to shoot for? I haven't really kept up much on the parts available, but I'm assuming most things are G1/4 fittings now. Here are my planned parts:

Swiftech MCP35X
Swiftech Apogee HD
Alphacool Nexxos ST30 240mm
Adamantium reservoir
Gentletyphoon AP15 x2
Monsoon Free Center compression fittings

Can anyone comment on the feasibilty of this? Taking a look at the spreadsheet, it should fit with my other components:

Asus z87 impact
Gigabyte GTX 670 windforce
Crucial VLP memory
Silverstone 600w sfx psu
2x 2.5" drives (9mm) one on each side of the front panel mounts

Are the XT45 radiators noticeably more capable at cooling than the ST30? Will that make things a much tighter/impossible fit? I do plan to eventually add the GPU into the loop if GTX 8-series maxwell makes a good showing, and would like to overclock the 4770k that I have to the 4-4.5ghz range, while leaving the GPU stock
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You won't have room for the pump. It needs to be either integrated into the block (Apogee Drive, H220, etc.) or on the floor of the case with a watercooled GPU. There's not enough room on the bottom otherwise. I'm also not sure about the MCP35X due to the top inlet - your GPU could block a top fitting due to its length.
 
Necere said:
You won't have room for the pump. It needs to be either integrated into the block (Apogee Drive, H220, etc.) or on the floor of the case with a watercooled GPU. There's not enough room on the bottom otherwise. I'm also not sure about the MCP35X due to the top inlet - your GPU could block a top fitting due to its length.
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he is correct, and to get around this i have the pump running outside in the back of the case.

WB7SXHC.jpg
 
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Siba said:
Is there a consensus on what dimension of tubing to shoot for?
Can anyone comment on the feasibilty of this?
Are the XT45 radiators noticeably more capable at cooling than the ST30?
Click to expand...

3/8"-5/8" can do the tightest turns without kinking.

Those parts are all good choices. Do you have the Ap15s already? They are hard to find nowadays - can try Noiseblocker B12-3 instead.

At low fan speeds, no advantage of XT45 over ST30

Edit: D'oh. Necere is right you need a pump top with side ports.

Edit 2: Alphacool makes a top with side ports http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ing_DDC_MCP35x_Series_Pump_Top_-_Acetal_.html 80x80x25mm and stop fitting = might be too tall :/

Edit 3: Phobya and XSPC also makes such tops. Hard to find exact dimensions.
 
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Necere said:
You won't have room for the pump. It needs to be either integrated into the block (Apogee Drive, H220, etc.) or on the floor of the case with a watercooled GPU. There's not enough room on the bottom otherwise. I'm also not sure about the MCP35X due to the top inlet - your GPU could block a top fitting due to its length.
Click to expand...

So, meaning that the pump will have liquid flow from the GPU instead of reservoir? Or is there a way around to route the tubing to connect to the reservoir at the back case?
 
WiSK said:
Edit 2: Alphacool makes a top with side ports http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ing_DDC_MCP35x_Series_Pump_Top_-_Acetal_.html 80x80x25mm and stop fitting = might be too tall :/

Edit 3: Phobya and XSPC also makes such tops. Hard to find exact dimensions.
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Also the Aquacomputer Aquacover DDC, which might be the shortest.

ruffstuff said:
So, meaning that the pump will have liquid flow from the GPU instead of reservoir? Or is there a way around to route the tubing to connect to the reservoir at the back case?
Click to expand...
It's possible - take a look at this build.
 
Necere said:
You won't have room for the pump. It needs to be either integrated into the block (Apogee Drive, H220, etc.) or on the floor of the case with a watercooled GPU. There's not enough room on the bottom otherwise. I'm also not sure about the MCP35X due to the top inlet - your GPU could block a top fitting due to its length.
Click to expand...

aznever said:
he is correct, and to get around this i have the pump running outside in the back of the case.
Click to expand...

That was one of my main concerns, I measured yesterday and saw I have about 1.4 to 1.6" depending on how much I can prop the GPU up


WiSK said:
3/8"-5/8" can do the tightest turns without kinking.

Those parts are all good choices. Do you have the Ap15s already? They are hard to find nowadays - can try Noiseblocker B12-3 instead.

At low fan speeds, no advantage of XT45 over ST30
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Awesome, thanks for your input on tubing size. Does it make more than a marginal difference on loop flow rates/temps by going with the smaller diameter tubing? And yep, I bought 4 AP15s for $50 maybe 3-4 years back in anticipation for when I finally made the move to watercooling. I'm pretty patient when it comes to getting my desktop to perfection, and the whole computer is still on power supply dialysis waiting on that 600w sfx psu (edit: that was 8 months ago! :D):



Necere said:
Also the Aquacomputer Aquacover DDC, which might be the shortest.

It's possible - take a look at this build.
Click to expand...

WiSK said:
Edit 2: Alphacool makes a top with side ports http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ing_DDC_MCP35x_Series_Pump_Top_-_Acetal_.html 80x80x25mm and stop fitting = might be too tall :/

Edit 3: Phobya and XSPC also makes such tops. Hard to find exact dimensions.
Click to expand...

You guys rock, I'll be looking into some of these horizontal fit tops and stopping by the microcenter near me to pick up the MCP350 that they show in stock; is there a big difference between the 350 and 355 other than PWM?
I don't know if I care for the additional complexity and as long as it's not too noticeable I'm fine with leaving it running at a static rpm. The horizontal tops should fit on the 350, right?

Another choice I have to make is between the Swiftech Apogee HD and the new EK Supremacy Evo, the latter of which would be nice because of the clear top so I can spot any bubbles or debris more easily. Does anyone have any experience with either of those two?
 
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I really recommend the MCP35X. It's much quieter than the older models and having PWM control means you can dial it right down when idle.

3/8" inner diamater for tubing is fine. The DDC pumps have no trouble at all with providing enough head pressure for CPU+GPU+Rad short loop, even at low speeds (1200-1500rpm). Tubing size won't affect anything really.

I only have experience with Apogee blocks, they are fine. But apparently EK CPU blocks give bit better temps - as well as looking prettier :)
 
WiSK said:
Oh, that explains a lot. It's got a blower fan, but the shroud is completely open. Normally the reference GPUs with impeller fan are closed, to force the air out the back. But this one is just going to be pushing air out all over the place.

I would start with trying a case fan under the GPU fan, and only if that doesn't help then switch the H100i to exhaust.
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Question,

If I were to return the 7950 and grab an axial design 7950 and have two 120MM fans on the bottom as exhaust, would that help my temps?

Axial fans blow hot air back into the case, so if I were to exhaust it out right away, then inside temps shouldn't be that much of a difference correct?
 
sashi said:
Question,

If I were to return the 7950 and grab an axial design 7950 and have two 120MM fans on the bottom as exhaust, would that help my temps?

Axial fans blow hot air back into the case, so if I were to exhaust it out right away, then inside temps shouldn't be that much of a difference correct?
Click to expand...

GPU with axial fans want fresh air from below, and exhaust upwards. So having exhaust fans on the bottom, I don't think that would work very well. It should be better with everything intake, or with bottom intake and H100i exhaust. You should test both.

Either way I expect it would work better than your current HIS's centrifugal fan design.
 
sashi said:
Question,

If I were to return the 7950 and grab an axial design 7950 and have two 120MM fans on the bottom as exhaust, would that help my temps?

Axial fans blow hot air back into the case, so if I were to exhaust it out right away, then inside temps shouldn't be that much of a difference correct?
Click to expand...

I'm using 2x120mm bottom exhaust, with the GPU shroud taken off, but it's honestly more trouble than it's worth to get optimal airflow. The best way is to get a Nvidia GTX700 series with the Titan cooler.

But if you want to know the list of requirements for optimal bottom exhaust...
1) Firstly, you have to remove the original fans and shrouds of the GPU, otherwise the 120mm exhaust fans and the GPU fans will be acting in opposite directions. This leads to very high temperature, I've tested it myself.
2) The heatsink of the GPU should be flat, like the Accelero Xtreme III. Aftermarket heatsinks with sunken-in fans means your 120mm fans won't be in direct contact with the heatsink. Sapphire Tri-X and Vapor-X r9 290(x) series are completely flat, for example.
3) Extra long fan screws and fan silencers to pad the 120mm fans to elevate it close to the heatsink. You want the fans to be as close as possible to the heatsink so that air sucked out are air that passes through the heatsink.
4) Most GPU heatsinks is meant for fans of 80mm width, 120mm fans are suboptimal, so the fans need to be sealed around edges with duct tape at the intake area so that they match the width of the heatsink.

So It's more trouble than it's worth. Just get a GTX 770 with a Titan heatsink, I think EVGA makes those.
 
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callumbolch said:
link to the image

http://cdn.overclock.net/7/72/724636dd_photo.jpeg

i nee to get me some photo hosting site, as OCN doesnt like me using it to post pccies on here haha

ill email you with some details about the case? anything you want to know in particular? serial number etc or just the photo?
Click to expand...

imgur.com has free picture hosting.

Necere said:
LL is on the hook for replacements for manufacturing defects, so aside from taking up w360's time, it doesn't cost us. It sucks that we're seeing these issues at all; for what you guys are paying for the case, you should definitely expect better quality control than what some of you are getting. If/when we do another production run, we'll definitely need to have a talk with LL about QC.
Click to expand...

Glad this is the case (pun not intended).
 
Necere said:
If your case has a manufacturing defect and you want to request a replacement, email w360 with pics (info at ncases). He travels quite a bit and isn't on the forum on a daily basis, so emailing him directly is really the best way to get his attention.

LL is on the hook for replacements for manufacturing defects, so aside from taking up w360's time, it doesn't cost us. It sucks that we're seeing these issues at all; for what you guys are paying for the case, you should definitely expect better quality control than what some of you are getting. If/when we do another production run, we'll definitely need to have a talk with LL about QC.
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This is a 1% problem so far.

Once we ship all the inventory, I suspect (and hope) it will be a <5% problem.
 
Looks like none of the pump configurations will fit under my gpu, it's hard to measure but only seems to be about 3cm of clearance.

I'll probably have to look for a used GTX680 block from aquacomputer or heatkiller.

How do you guys feel about non fullcoverage blocks? Are there any resources for finding out how to cool the VRMs and video memory?

edit:

currently researching EK thermosphere as an option, maybe I can go the universal gpu block method and worry less about upgrading to Maxwell in the future.
 
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Thermosphere is probably a good idea, since they are going to make adapter plates for anything that doesn't fit naturally.

I have a Heatkiller Core LC in one of my machines, although the GPU is only 660Ti, it's overclocked and VRM temps seem to be under 70C. I just used mini Akasa heatsinks on the RAM.
 
Hey guys

So I'm contemplating to watercool my current build

I have no experience in W/C but I have looked at a bunch of guides and it doesn't seem too hard

Rig is in my sig

These are the parts I'm thinking
Swiftech APOGEE Drive II CPU Waterblock with Integrated Pump
EK-FC 7950 for GPU
M1 NCase Reservoir from frozenqshop
PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing - 3/8in. ID X 1/2in. OD
Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper 240mm Rad

As for compression fittings I have no idea what I need...

I know I would need at least 2 90degree angle fittings for the GPU to the res but thats about it, I have no idea what size I need

Thanks :)
 
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sashi said:
Hey guys

So I'm contemplating to watercool my current build

I have no experience in W/C but I have looked at a bunch of guides and it doesn't seem too hard

Rig is in my sig

These are the parts I'm thinking
Swiftech APOGEE Drive II CPU Waterblock with Integrated Pump
EK-FC 7950 for GPU
M1 NCase Reservoir from frozenqshop
PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing - 3/8in. ID X 1/2in. OD
Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper 240mm Rad

As for compression fittings I have no idea what I need...

I know I would need at least 2 90degree angle fittings for the GPU to the res but thats about it, I have no idea what size I need

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I am no expert by any means, but you should match your tube size to your fittings. So in your case, 3/8in ID and 1/2in OD fittings.

I have been using Overrated's and aceman's builds as examples for the build that I am putting together.

Overrated

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1799461

aceman

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040911009&postcount=12049

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040909858&postcount=12046

I am planning to use all Barrow fittings for my loop, which are supposedly made by the same manufacturer as Bitspower fittings. I am not able to compare them to other fittings, but just by looking at them and holing them, they seem to be very high quality. The links copied below are the various fittings I will be using in my build.


Compression Fittings
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191129352637?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Rotary 90 degree Fittings
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191100329022?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

90 degree Fittings
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191203903507?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
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Thanks

What is the difference between barb and compression fittings? Which one would I need?

Edit: Nvm, looks like barbs are cheaper

Edit2:

Alright thanks for the links, I'm basically copying Overrated's build and going with these fittings, are they fine?

Bitspower Premium G1/4" Matte Black High Flow 3/8" (1/2" OD) Compression Fitting
Alphacool 13/10 (10x1.5mm) Compression Fitting 90° Revolvable G1/4 - Deep Black
Bitspower G 1/4" 90 Degree IG 1/4" Adapter - Matte Black
 
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Siba said:
Looks like none of the pump configurations will fit under my gpu, it's hard to measure but only seems to be about 3cm of clearance.

I'll probably have to look for a used GTX680 block from aquacomputer or heatkiller.

How do you guys feel about non fullcoverage blocks? Are there any resources for finding out how to cool the VRMs and video memory?

edit:

currently researching EK thermosphere as an option, maybe I can go the universal gpu block method and worry less about upgrading to Maxwell in the future.
Click to expand...

I'm opting the EK universal GPU block for my GTX680. Will be utilizing existing heat plate (MSI Twinfrozr III) for the VRM. Hopefully there is some clearance for the DDC pump + phobya top.

But still, my case is in transit.
 
sashi said:
Thanks

What is the difference between barb and compression fittings? Which one would I need?

Edit: Nvm, looks like barbs are cheaper

Edit2:

Alright thanks for the links, I'm basically copying Overrated's build and going with these fittings, are they fine?

Bitspower Premium G1/4" Matte Black High Flow 3/8" (1/2" OD) Compression Fitting
Alphacool 13/10 (10x1.5mm) Compression Fitting 90° Revolvable G1/4 - Deep Black
Bitspower G 1/4" 90 Degree IG 1/4" Adapter - Matte Black
Click to expand...

I'm also going with the 3/8 ID, 1/2 OD. Although 5/8 od has tightest turn for the tubing. But 1/2 od tubing has small footprint.
 
ruffstuff said:
I'm also going with the 3/8 ID, 1/2 OD. Although 5/8 od has tightest turn for the tubing. But 1/2 od tubing has small footprint.
Click to expand...

I found some Barrow fittings on however not sure if its the same

On overrateds build it has Barrow G1/4" 90° Female to Male Fitting Adapter Elbow

However the ones I have found are Male to Female, does it matter?
 
Siba said:
Looks like none of the pump configurations will fit under my gpu, it's hard to measure but only seems to be about 3cm of clearance.
Click to expand...

ruffstuff said:
Hopefully there is some clearance for the DDC pump + phobya top.
Click to expand...

The one found by aceman and reminded by Necere: Aquacomputer Aquacover DDC is 20mm tall, less than all the others. Total height with pump would be 41mm I think.

Europe http://www.aquatuning.de/water-cool...cover-for-laing-and-swiftech-pumps-g1/4?c=583
USA http://www.aquatuning.us/water-cool...r-ddc-cover-for-laing-and-swiftech-pumps-g1/4

Note that you must test the pump first with the stock top because Swiftech warranty is voided if you open MCP35X. EKWB also does a PWM DDC pump, but it's (apparently) not as quiet as the Swiftech model.
 
Has EK fixed their issues with Nickel plating, particularly the EK Thermosphere? Some of the stories are particularly worrying, though I did come across a nice set of research regarding that issue. From the article:

Corrosion can be avoided by the use of a low-conducting, anti-corrosion liquid (which,
in principle, is also distilled or deionized water). It is recommended to exchange the liquid
with a fresh one after a period of time to remove the possibly dissolved ions from the closed
water-cooling system. The introduction of additional metals into the system (silver, etc.) or
the use of ionic algaecides (copper sulfate, etc.) even in minor concentrations can trigger the
corrosion processes. Avoid the use of acidic substances, especially when using copper metal.

I guess Killcoils and Deadwater or PTnuke are out of the question, then? Unless the two parts I'm buying don't have any Nickel plating whatsoever...

EK Supremacy EVO
EK Thermosphere (this says it's laser cut stainless steel, how is that for corrosion in mixed metal environments?)
 
I'm not going to speak for EK, but I haven't seen any major issues like there was 2 (3?) years ago with the older generation EK blocks.

Many people still use silver+distilled since then, but copper sulphate based algicides are probably best avoided. Personally I switched to EKoolant recently to cover any RMA discussions, and because it's non-toxic unlike other glycol premixes.
 
balance101 said:
ya Let me know if you get any update and I will post updates when I get them. starting to get worry :confused:
Click to expand...
TW Surface and US economy deliveries are currently making their way across the ocean on cargo ships, which takes some time. They update tracking when something happens (i.e., packages are processed and scanned as they depart/arrive at port). The ETA for TW surface given on our website when you ordered was 6-12 weeks from the date the cases were delivered from manufacturing, which was the end of July. So we're only about 4 weeks in.
 
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