NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Blorgon said:
I hope you guys don't mind me bringing this up again, but my post kinda got buried a few pages back.

I'm wondering if those of you not watercooling your GPUs (and also using blower-style coolers) are also using an intake fan on the bottom of the case, and if there's a significant difference between using a fan to feed the blower versus letting the blower pull air in through the bottom of the case.

Again, I tried searching the thread, but was having a difficult time finding any results, only pictures of builds with this set up.

My main concern is whether a fan can even be effective that close to the card, and also if a smaller diameter fan would be better suited to directing airflow straight into the blower.

Thanks for your patience!
Click to expand...
IIRC one person reported that having a fan right below the intake on their blower card didn't make much of a difference to GPU temps. Where it might help is in maintaining positive pressure and keeping dust out (assuming it's filtered), as well as increasing airflow through the case and behind the motherboard.
 
Necere said:
IIRC one person reported that having a fan right below the intake on their blower card didn't make much of a difference to GPU temps. Where it might help is in maintaining positive pressure and keeping dust out (assuming it's filtered), as well as increasing airflow through the case and behind the motherboard.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response! It doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of space between the fans and the graphics card, so is it even possible to create meaningful airflow?

Cannot wait to get my hands on one.
 
Necere said:
IIRC one person reported that having a fan right below the intake on their blower card didn't make much of a difference to GPU temps.
Click to expand...

Found a few of the posts that mentioned temp results using bottom fans beneath a GPU card. Not sure if any are blower, though..



In general, GPU temps seem to improve only slightly, if at all. But on the other hand, the bottom fans don't seem to negatively effect the GPU temps any (other than CGM's one test using bottom fan as exhaust and GPU fan as intake :D).

So, yeah.. bottom case fans for GPU cooling is probably only useful in scenarios where the card's fan & shroud have been removed; and as you mentioned, for providing positive case pressure and increasing general case airflow.
 
My point of view:
Useless fans + extra cables + extra points of failure + more noise = not efficient :p
 
Last edited:
Phuncz said:
My point of view:
Useless fans + extra cables + extra points of failure + more noise =/= not efficient :p
Click to expand...

Yeah, kinda sorta agree. I've finally gotten my fans tweaked so that only my CPU fan and PSU fan are running all the time, and the other 3 only kick on at low RPM under moderate use, up to full-throttle at 100% CPU usage.. at that point HDD & SSD temps actually start dropping a little. Noise isn't bad at all (other than PSU fan at idle), and cabling is neatly hidden around the sides of the fans.

As long as the CPU and PSU fans/cables don't crap out, the other 3 could fail completely and it really wouldn't be a catastrophe. So yeah.. probably not at all necessary (other than providing occasional positive pressure and airflow throughout the case), but they're not really hurting anything either (other than the fact I have to run FanXpert w/AiSuite to accomplish this, which is another story, and ASUS' fault imo).

And really, c'mon man.. the mobo had 4x friggin fan headers! I paid good money for that feature, and you expect me to leave them empty? :D
 
Phuncz said:
My point of view:
Useless fans + extra cables + extra points of failure + more noise =/= not efficient :p
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with Phuncz here. Unless you trying to make an unstable overclock stable, then adding a fan for 2-3C lower temperature on a GPU is just wasting money.
 
Guys, thanks for all of your replies in relation to reference vs. non-reference design cards. i had a few of the ideas mixed up however you have clarified things nicely for me (much appreciated).

Definitely sounds like reference design is the way to go for my build.

Does it just come down to price or are there differences between the reference design cards? All I can think of is software and/or after-market service. Am I missing anything in decided which one to go for?
 
AFD said:
Thanks again, appreciate it! Hmm.. that 4790k might be a little more heat than I'd like then (at load during Prime95). Especially since your C12 config should cool a little better than mine (120mm F12 mounted on side-rack w/gap). Dunno.. still might give it a try.
Click to expand...

I would defenitly reccommend this cooler. I tought about the nh-c14 but this one had enough clearence for my corsair vengeance pro so I decided to go with it.
And like I said before, if you're worried about the temps just upgrade to a better fan. I'm acctually going to move my pc into my tv cabinet to keep it locked when I'm not in my room and most likely going to buy that 3000rpm noctua I mentioned. Since it's pwm i'm sure the volume will never go to loud.
 
NeonWhite said:
Does it just come down to price or are there differences between the reference design cards? All I can think of is software and/or after-market service. Am I missing anything in decided which one to go for?
Click to expand...
You are correct if the GPU is using the reference design cooler. Just brand name, prices, software, and warranty.
 
tetrismaster said:
I didn't know they made the GTX 770 in a Titan cooler. Is it quieter than the reference GTX 770 cooler?
Click to expand...

afaik the reference 770 cooler is pretty much equal to the Titan/780 cooler but comes with a plastic shroud instead of the (???) magnesium (???) one.
 
anyone know the length of screws used to fasten the H220 radiator to the mounting bracket with the dust filters ?
 
It has already been mentioned last week:
cznv said:
Some news regarding SFX PSUs

dirac tesla cube series 550w and 650w sfxl
Click to expand...

But the problem is that Dirac doesn't seem to have a retail outside of Asia, so you will need to keep this in mind:

AFD said:
Just keep in mind that the price of their 650W is around 18,000¥ (roughly $175 USD) plus int'l shipping and/or export fees and/or import duty. This could easily become a $300 PSU, if imported.

Here's one shop that has the Dirac TCSXG-65 for pre-order, with availability expected on July 17th..

http://www.casemaniac.co.jp/208_4839.html
Click to expand...

Oh and near-impossible warranty claims. So for 8% more power and questionable quality and noise at a price easily twice as high, it's not really a good solution for Europe or US customers. Especially with the Silverstone SX600-G and SX500-LG on the way.
 
milkcow said:
afaik the reference 770 cooler is pretty much equal to the Titan/780 cooler but comes with a plastic shroud instead of the (???) magnesium (???) one.
Click to expand...

I thought the fins on the inside where taller and the fan was better on the Titan cooler as well.
 
Phuncz said:
Oh and near-impossible warranty claims. So for 8% more power and questionable quality and noise at a price easily twice as high, it's not really a good solution for Europe or US customers. Especially with the Silverstone SX600-G and SX500-LG on the way.
Click to expand...

Have to mention again that despite the Gold efficiency sticker, the Dirac is not shown yet on 80Plus website. Neither is it validated by UL or TÜV so it's not allowed to import it to Europe or US. Although no idea if customs would check that kind of thing.
 
Blorgon said:
I'm wondering if those of you not watercooling your GPUs (and also using blower-style coolers) are also using an intake fan on the bottom of the case, and if there's a significant difference between using a fan to feed the blower versus letting the blower pull air in through the bottom of the case.
Click to expand...

Necere said:
IIRC one person reported that having a fan right below the intake on their blower card didn't make much of a difference to GPU temps. Where it might help is in maintaining positive pressure and keeping dust out (assuming it's filtered), as well as increasing airflow through the case and behind the motherboard.
Click to expand...

Extra airflow directed at a blower cooler on a graphics card helps very little, according to any and all attempts I know of (e.g. SPCR's).

I'm still doing it though (with a Demciflex filter underneath) as of a few days ago, to make sure that the blower doesn't suck unfiltered air, to increase the positive pressure and the airflow through the case, just as Necere says.
 
Looking forward to seeing all the new Ncase people getting their builds and posting pics :).
 
WiSK said:
Have to mention again that despite the Gold efficiency sticker, the Dirac is not shown yet on 80Plus website. Neither is it validated by UL or TÜV so it's not allowed to import it to Europe or US. Although no idea if customs would check that kind of thing.
Click to expand...

Even if it still carries the FCC, RoHS and CE compliance marks? No idea why they'd need an FCC mark for a JDM product.

OCw3cPa.jpg


Lol.. just noticed the "Switching PowerSuppry" engrish on the label :D
 
tetrismaster said:
I didn't know they made the GTX 770 in a Titan cooler. Is it quieter than the reference GTX 770 cooler?
Click to expand...

Supposedly it is more quiet and better cooling. It's main attraction though is that it blows out the back instead of into the case so when it comes to the M1 case its a better choice over the reference version. However its more costly. That's it's downside.
 
What I wanna know is when we'll see some SFX 80 Plus Platinum or Titanium power supplies.
 
AFD said:
Even if it still carries the FCC, RoHS and CE compliance marks?
Click to expand...

Not sure about FCC, but RoHS and CE are manufacturer declared, so it can be misused. Unlike UL and TÜV, there is no governing body that tests equipment, produces a certificate, or issues a verification number.
 
Skott said:
Supposedly it is more quiet and better cooling. It's main attraction though is that it blows out the back instead of into the case so when it comes to the M1 case its a better choice over the reference version. However its more costly. That's it's downside.
Click to expand...

Again, the Titan cooler is the reference cooler for the GTX770. See pretty much any launch review of the card (using the samples shipped directly by Nvidia), as it will have the "Titan" cooler on it. Most manufacturers didn't think anyone would be willing to pay the premium required for the heavier reference cooler, so they released non-reference blower style coolers as their "entry-level" models of the GTX770. Then, per their normal marketing models, they also released non-reference, axial coolers, as their "high-end" models. Due to general demand and popularity of the "Titan" cooler, they eventually started releasing GTX770 variants with the reference cooler.

EVGA is a good example of a manufacturer with variations across the entire range:
Reference card with reference ("Titan"), blower-style cooler (recommended if intending to air-cool the GPU in the M1)
Reference card, with non-reference, blower-style cooler (recommended if intending to air-cool the GPU in the M1)
Reference card, with non-reference, axial-style ("open") cooler
Non-reference card, with non-reference, axial-style cooler

Reference = the card built exactly as specified by AMD/Nvidia
Non-reference = any aspect of the card that deviates from the AMD/Nvidia specifications (be it the clocks, the PCB, or the cooler)
Finally, reference <> blower; case in point: the R295X2. The R295X2's "reference" cooler is an axial fan combined with two pump/heatsink combos and an external radiator/fan combo!

Edited to add: As to the difference between the reference blower-style ("Titan") cooler and the non-reference blower-style coolers (like the second one linked above), I've heard different things as to their relative merits. Some people say they're equivalent other than aesthetics (like adudeinblue), others (like Topweasel) have heard that the reference blower is better made. I've never seen anything definitive (like a head-to-head temperature/clock comparison, or a side-by-side teardown).
 
Last edited:
Geoffrey4283 said:
Edited to add: As to the difference between the reference blower-style ("Titan") cooler and the non-reference blower-style coolers (like the second one linked above), I've heard different things as to their relative merits. Some people say they're equivalent other than aesthetics (like adudeinblue), others (like Topweasel) have heard that the reference blower is better made. I've never seen anything definitive (like a head-to-head temperature/clock comparison, or a side-by-side teardown).
Click to expand...

I should note I was comparing it to the 680 HSF which I had guessed was the reference cooler (or close to it) because the only 770 I had seen with a Titan cooler on it was the EVGA that sold it as at a premium as feature (though it would make sense considering that cooler probably is double the cost of others). I had completely forgotten that the actual announced reference 770 was with the Titan cooler.
 
Topweasel said:
I should note I was comparing it to the 680 HSF which I had guessed was the reference cooler (or close to it) because the only 770 I had seen with a Titan cooler on it was the EVGA that sold it as at a premium as feature (though it would make sense considering that cooler probably is double the cost of others). I had completely forgotten that the actual announced reference 770 was with the Titan cooler.
Click to expand...

Didn't intend to single you out, either. I'd heard that from multiple people back when they were first coming out; you were just conveniently nearby!

Potentially useful: according to JacobF (Product Manager on the EVGA forums) - "The blower fan EVGA 770's actually have all the TITAN cooler internals, just the shroud looks different."
(source)
 
Geoffrey4283 said:
Again, the Titan cooler is the reference cooler for the GTX770. See pretty much any launch review of the card (using the samples shipped directly by Nvidia), as it will have the "Titan" cooler on it. Most manufacturers didn't think anyone would be willing to pay the premium required for the heavier reference cooler, so they released non-reference blower style coolers as their "entry-level" models of the GTX770. Then, per their normal marketing models, they also released non-reference, axial coolers, as their "high-end" models. Due to general demand and popularity of the "Titan" cooler, they eventually started releasing GTX770 variants with the reference cooler.
Click to expand...

Good stuff, thanks!
 
AFD said:
Even if it still carries the FCC, RoHS and CE compliance marks? No idea why they'd need an FCC mark for a JDM product.

OCw3cPa.jpg


Lol.. just noticed the "Switching PowerSuppry" engrish on the label :D
Click to expand...

certified made in japan :D
 
Sunnni said:
Does somebody know, if its possible to mount this Cooler http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=37&lng=en&set=1 in the NCase?

The height should not be the problem but the other measures?
Click to expand...

Yes, the Noctua C14 has already been fitted in the M1 successfully. Pretty sure it was on an ASUS board.. not really sure about fitment with the socket placement on other brands.

And if I'm not mistaken, with the C14 installed, you cannot use the side 3.5" HDD rack or an ATX PSU (EDIT: ATX w/C14 is possible).. if either of those are important, then your next best bet would be their C12 (which is now being discontinued).


EDIT: Here's one on an Asrock board..

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040459909&postcount=8370

And one on an ASUS board..

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039866874&postcount=2686

And one on an ASUS board w/ATX PSU..

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039811068&postcount=2269
 
Last edited:
AFD, why are they discontinuing the C12? Any word on a replacement?

EDIT: what's a good air cooler that could be used in place of the C12?
 
Last edited:
Afd, what do u think is the better Aircooling in the Ncase with a Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X:
a Topblower like the NH-C14 or a Tower like the NH-U9B SE2 http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=32&lng=en

I will use the new Silverstone SFX PSU SX600G and i dont need the place below the GPU for HDD. There could be two 120mm fans.
The SSD is placed inside at the Frontpanel.
The plan is, to make some overclocking on the i7 4790k.
 
ellroy80 said:
AFD, why are they discontinuing the C12? Any word on a replacement?

EDIT: what's a good air cooler that could be used in place of the C12?
Click to expand...

No idea why they're being discontinued, but Newegg still has them in-stock.

The C14 would be an excellent replacement, and probably would offer even better cooling.. if you're okay with not being able to use the side HDD rack. The Thermalright AXP-100 is a similar design and would probably fit nicely, but I think it's even smaller than the C12. The larger AXP-200 is also nice, but doesn't seem to stay within the confines of an ITX board, so probably wouldn't fit at all.

Sunnni said:
Afd, what do u think is the better Aircooling in the Ncase with a Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X:
a Topblower like the NH-C14 or a Tower like the NH-U9B SE2 http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=32&lng=en

I will use the new Silverstone SFX PSU SX600G and i dont need the place below the GPU for HDD. There could be two 120mm fans.
The SSD is placed inside at the Frontpanel.
The plan is, to make some overclocking on the i7 4790k.
Click to expand...

Think top-down coolers like the C12 and C14 are recommended, and I recall only one other member using a small tower design like the U9B (LINK), Not really sure what benefit a tower in this case would provide.. seems like it would be pulling warm GPU air directly into the heatsink (if using an open-style GPU cooler), whereas a top-down design would be getting fresh air directly from the side panel. Plus, the 2x 92mm fans would probably be louder than a single 120 or 140mm.

General consensus is that bottom-mount fans don't really help much with GPU temps (also blower-style GPU coolers are recommended over the open-style on the Tri-X). And if you're overclocking the 4790k on air, go big and get the C14, and if you happen to need a 3.5" drive, mount it on the bottom.

My C12 handles a stock 4770k at reasonable temps, and if most of the reviews are correct, I have a feeling that a stock 4790k might barely be okay at load on the C12. The C14 should fair a bit better.. but OC'd 4790k temps seem pretty damn high in most reviews.
 
AFD said:
No idea why they're being discontinued, but Newegg still has them in-stock.

The C14 would be an excellent replacement, and probably would offer even better cooling.. if you're okay with not being able to use the side HDD rack. The Thermalright AXP-100 is a similar design and would probably fit nicely, but I think it's even smaller than the C12. The larger AXP-200 is also nice, but doesn't seem to stay within the confines of an ITX board, so probably wouldn't fit at all.
Click to expand...

Thanks AFD. I'm looking to get a 4690K or 4790K so I'll look at some reviews and make a decision. Might even head down the water route and use Swiftech's new H220X.
 
ellroy80 said:
Thanks AFD. I'm looking to get a 4690K or 4790K so I'll look at some reviews and make a decision. Might even head down the water route and use Swiftech's new H220X.
Click to expand...

H220X is not such a hot idea.

Necere said:
I'm assuming you're talking about the H220x which was shown back in January? If so, don't expect it to fit in the M1. The pump/res hanging off the side of the radiator will never fit inside.

The original H220/Glacer 240L and the upcoming Fractal Design Kelvin are still your best bet for expandable AIO watercooling in the M1.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top