NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

where can i get my hands on one of these? sounds like it would be perfect! do they have anything new out in the sfx market?

I'm thinking he's talking about the Shuttle PC63 or PC63J, maybe?

They're still available at a few places, w/prices comparable to a Silverstone.

Couldn't find it at their US site (pretty sure it was there a few months ago), but here's a link to both (not sure the difference, if any) at their EU site..

http://www.shuttle.eu/products/xpc-accessories/


EDIT: Dunno. Those newer XPC PSUs seem just slightly larger than SFX (smaller around, but longer). Don't really see how one would fit in the M1, without some sort of magic trickery and a hacksaw =)
 
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Someone PM'd me to come take a look here. :)

I want to reiterate that PSU development do take a long time and product can indeed evolve as we go. As some of you know already, we went for 500W during ST45SF-G's development but had to eventually settle back to 450W for production (if you are still unhappy about fan noise with V2.0, imagine what 500W would be like!), things can also go the other way too when new component or technology becomes available to us.

Internally, our product team in Taiwan holds weekly telephone conference with our branch offices to discuss current products (customer feedbacks, sales trends, etc...) and also future products. So in this incidence, the discussion we had for possible future products and what we can do may have been interpreted as fact and been passed onto you guys. Just as you guys can talk about what you like for an upcoming SFX here at [H]ard|Forum, we do the same internally as well. So I apologize on behalf of our staff in getting everyone riled up a bit on a product that does not exist yet. We definitely have prototypes with various power levels developed now, but with so many details to be worked out (fans, longevity, reasonable cost, efficiency level, voltage regulation, etc...), they are not actual products.

We want to make the best product possible just as everyone hoped we could so we appreciate your concerns, but please also keep in mind that delays happen frequently in our business so that's why we prefer not to give answers on when our product is coming until we are fairly certain. If you have a build planned that involves SFX within next quarter or two, then don't wait for it.

By the way, adamantium, the post where I mentioned we wanted to send a future PSU to SPCR for review, that was in reference to our recently launched ST30SF. We would never send prototype PSUs to reviewers as they would have sub-par electrical performance (voltage regulation, ripple, etc...) and sometimes missing safety mechanisms.
 
If you have a build planned that involves SFX within next quarter or two, then don't wait for it.
This is what I was going at: we shouldn't be getting our hopes up we'd see a product better than the ST45SF(-G) soon, certainly not with the competition not living up to the SFX standards and certainly not to the quality standards Silverstone has shown.

Silverstone will want to release a quality product and probably learned from a few errors with the ST45SF-G so this means the QA is going to take a while. Especially with a product type that sees relatively low innovation in it's components, it is up to the engineers to squeeze every last drop of efficiency out of it.

Never expected to be called a liar for sharing what I deem exciting news to a relevant topic.
I never called you a liar, but I found it odd you had information others didn't have, registered only recently and seemed to defend your claim pro-actively. Red flags in the world where hypes and hoaxes aren't uncommon.

Finally we know that there is no evidence of the message being made up, and trying to make others believe otherwise, without real evidence, does a disservice to the one being maligned.
My point was that everyone seemed to jump on the "600W SFX beginning 2014"-bandwagon because someone posted a message about it. I was being skeptical, since I don't like waiting and hoping on dreams.
If I told you a Corsair representative emailed me with an upcoming release that a 600W SFX PSU that was going to destroy the competition, would everyone believe me ? I sure hope not as I expect people to demand proof and expect to see results first before commiting to marketing B.S. Just like the Athena PSU's: let's see them first.
 
If you have a build planned that involves SFX within next quarter or two, then don't wait for it.

Yeah, you just want me to buy 2 of your PSUs :D

This is what I was going at: we shouldn't be getting our hopes up we'd see a product better than the ST45SF(-G) soon, certainly not with the competition not living up to the SFX standards and certainly not to the quality standards Silverstone has shown.

Unfortunately, there's no compelling reason for them to push for further innovation in a segment without any competition.. at least until another shark jumps into the pool. Could make things very interesting, though.


Hey, I have a really great idea that I'm sure everyone will hate.. how about a powerhouse semi-fanless SFX PSU (say maybe 550W Gold) that's quiet at idle, ramps up to tolerable dB at medium load, and sounds like a leaf blower at full tilt? Since SFF builds are about limitations, compromises & balance, I could probably live with something middle-of-the-road like that (though I'm certain the SPCR crowd wouldn't like it one bit.. maybe?). Something that would be dead silent at idle, whisper quiet while watching a movie, a bit louder when gaming, and then noisier than hell under heavier load. Just a thought, lol.

And thank you Tony for stopping by to clarify everything, even if some of us find your news slightly depressing :)
 
Noticed something today.. the ASUS H81M-E (pic) Is only 226mm x 175mm.. might possibly fit?

Main drawback is only rear USB3, USB2 front panel.
 
i'd personally prefer a 450w fanless or semi fanless to a 600w with a fan. although i guess they'd probably have to increase the size for a big enough heatsink to cool it.
 
Slightly off topic but on the lines of limitation of size vs. power supply output / cooling / reliability of an SFX form factor.
What about the new Mac Pro? This is a high powered machine and somehow they have managed to integrate a high power supply within.

If I wasn't a gamer and didn't need the flexibility of a PC, the new Mac Pro would currently be my dream machine :)
 
Slightly off topic but on the lines of limitation of size vs. power supply output / cooling / reliability of an SFX form factor.
What about the new Mac Pro? This is a high powered machine and somehow they have managed to integrate a high power supply within.

If I wasn't a gamer and didn't need the flexibility of a PC, the new Mac Pro would currently be my dream machine :)

that is a most likely a custom form factor only made for the mac pro ...
 
If you have a build planned that involves SFX within next quarter or two, then don't wait for it.

Aw. Looks like I'll be getting the ST45SF-G and I'll wait for Nvidia's Maxwell GPUs.

Hopefully better power consumption than the 290X's 300W TDP.

Thanks for the clarification Tony!
 
that is a most likely a custom form factor only made for the mac pro ...

Yes, I understand it is a custom shape inside. My thoughts are that it would use less volume than an SFX form factor, which leaves me to think it is technically possible for 500W+ and just a matter of cost. To the average PC enthusiast who is building a SFF PC, usually cost isn't an issue for the right product.
 
Yes, I understand it is a custom shape inside. My thoughts are that it would use less volume than an SFX form factor, which leaves me to think it is technically possible for 500W+ and just a matter of cost. To the average PC enthusiast who is building a SFF PC, usually cost isn't an issue for the right product.

It's usually easier, from an engineering standpoint, to get to your desired objective when you toss out every industry standard as part of the design phase :D
 
Slightly off topic but on the lines of limitation of size vs. power supply output / cooling / reliability of an SFX form factor.
What about the new Mac Pro? This is a high powered machine and somehow they have managed to integrate a high power supply within.

If I wasn't a gamer and didn't need the flexibility of a PC, the new Mac Pro would currently be my dream machine :)

They have also managed to this for their Mac Mini. There is no external brick. The external brick with most pico power supplies is quite large.
 
They have also managed to this for their Mac Mini. There is no external brick. The external brick with most pico power supplies is quite large.

It's tiny, but also 'only' 85 Watt ;)
tMtxjtjNVHNcDLPS.large
 
Noticed something today.. the ASUS H81M-E (pic) Is only 226mm x 175mm.. might possibly fit?
Those boards have been brought up a couple of times. Bottom line is fitting them would be very tight, if at all.

Slightly off topic but on the lines of limitation of size vs. power supply output / cooling / reliability of an SFX form factor.
What about the new Mac Pro? This is a high powered machine and somehow they have managed to integrate a high power supply within.
Not as much of a stretch as you might think. Looking at this overhead shot, the PSU almost certainly occupies the space under the mesh in the lower half of the image:

780234516.png


It's exactly the right size for the equivalent of an 80x40mm 1U PSU up to around 200mm long, which are readily available with 400w output.

The real feat was packing everything else in the rest of the space, but to echo what Machupo said, it's only possible if you don't have to be worried about following industry standard form-factors.
 
Someone PM'd me to come take a look here. :)

I want to reiterate that PSU development do take a long time and product can indeed evolve as we go. As some of you know already, we went for 500W during ST45SF-G's development but had to eventually settle back to 450W for production (if you are still unhappy about fan noise with V2.0, imagine what 500W would be like!), things can also go the other way too when new component or technology becomes available to us.

Internally, our product team in Taiwan holds weekly telephone conference with our branch offices to discuss current products (customer feedbacks, sales trends, etc...) and also future products. So in this incidence, the discussion we had for possible future products and what we can do may have been interpreted as fact and been passed onto you guys. Just as you guys can talk about what you like for an upcoming SFX here at [H]ard|Forum, we do the same internally as well. So I apologize on behalf of our staff in getting everyone riled up a bit on a product that does not exist yet. We definitely have prototypes with various power levels developed now, but with so many details to be worked out (fans, longevity, reasonable cost, efficiency level, voltage regulation, etc...), they are not actual products.

We want to make the best product possible just as everyone hoped we could so we appreciate your concerns, but please also keep in mind that delays happen frequently in our business so that's why we prefer not to give answers on when our product is coming until we are fairly certain. If you have a build planned that involves SFX within next quarter or two, then don't wait for it.

By the way, adamantium, the post where I mentioned we wanted to send a future PSU to SPCR for review, that was in reference to our recently launched ST30SF. We would never send prototype PSUs to reviewers as they would have sub-par electrical performance (voltage regulation, ripple, etc...) and sometimes missing safety mechanisms.

Tony thanks for the definitive clarifications and additional information. Glad I bought version 2 of the ST45SF-G back in July. It is very quiet and meets my needs. Its currently in an SG10 waiting for the M1. I need to make some custom sata power cables since there aren't enough plugs and the stock lengths don't fit the SG10 drive distances, but that's just more fun. I understand that things evolve as you experiment and learn during the development cycle. I'll need another PSU for my second M1, but I'll wait until I receive it to see what the market has to offer. If something better exists at that time, I'll try it, otherwise I'll have no problem buying another ST45SF-G.
 
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We want to make the best product possible

I think your organization has demonstrated this. The performance of the ST45SF-G for its size is frankly jaw dropping. I find complaints about noise in a .79375 litre 450W supply kind of humorous.
 
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Hey, I have a really great idea that I'm sure everyone will hate.. how about a powerhouse semi-fanless SFX PSU
Semi-fanless? What the fuck does that mean? Half a fan? You either have a fan in a PSU or you don't. It's binary.
 
Semi-fanless? What the fuck does that mean? Half a fan? You either have a fan in a PSU or you don't. It's binary.

I think semi-fanless is a way of saying that the fan in the PSU doesn't spin up until a certain temp or certain load %. I believe Corsair's new RM Series PSUs utilize this feature. It's for people who mind noise.

In the case of Corsair's RM Series, it's a noticeable difference.

RM450-FAN-NOISE.png
 
Semi-fanless? What the fuck does that mean? Half a fan? You either have a fan in a PSU or you don't. It's binary.

Yeah, it's a a new fan design w/missing blades.. half the cooling & twice the noise! :rolleyes:

What Commander said.. the fan is off at low temps. Silverstone's new ST30SF calls this "intelligent semi-fanless operation."
 
I never called you a liar, but I found it odd you had information others didn't have, registered only recently and seemed to defend your claim pro-actively. Red flags in the world where hypes and hoaxes aren't uncommon.

Well, implying that the noobie's lying sucks for the noobie man. See the noobie here actually honestly respects the members on this forum, and yeah, I'd for the most part believe what they say without being so skeptical. The approach could've been a lot different- like, "hey slabhatnik, you for real about this email? got a screenshot maybe?" Anyway, I'm not surprised, megalomania hardly ever comes with tact. Not calling you anything here, just implying your response lacked goodwill, but I'm sure you already knew this.

If you feel like you wanna talk about it further , PM me, otherwise I'm done with this incident, and wanna get back to the M1.
 
I'm updating the website so M1 backers can log in and 1) check order, 2) update address, 3) get tracking number.
 
I'm updating the website so M1 backers can log in and 1) check order, 2) update address, 3) get tracking number.

Nice! Hope you don't mind me compulsively checking my order status/tracking at your site constantly for the next couple months :D
 
Aw man... you didn't do anything about the long power cord and front panel cables :(
Nevertheless the case looks flawless! I can't wait!

:rolleyes: .....

the only thing i do not like are the cables ... tooooooooooo long! ... So first thing i have to do after the board and the sfx sits in there is cutting the psi, front cable and solder it on the right length

Pretty sure Necere said something about asking for USB cables to be made shorter after the first sample. I guess it didn't happen.

Prototype #3 looks beautiful! USB & front power/audio cables are waaay too long, though.


The third prototype is actually using the cables out of the first prototype. LL only got two sets of cable samples from their supplier to make the prototypes, so the third didn't come with any. The USB and audio cables will be shorter on the production cases.
 
Necere and Wahaha360,

Thanks for the detailed status reports. This is a ton of work for sure, and I understand needing to take a break. I am glad you two are willing to pull it all together. Hopefully things at Lian Li get started sooner than later without either of you becoming damaged. :)









The reservoir has been a joint effort between Alex at FrozenQ, Necere, and myself. I submitted the final drawings for the prototype end of the week before last, and Alex is working to put the prototype together this week. I am hoping we will be able to see some pictures of it soon, but that will depend on how much progress he is able to make this week.

The reservoir will mount on the 92mm fan mounts on the back. It will come in two parts: a) an upper reservoir component that has threaded inlet and outlet on the bottom aligned with the tube holes on the M1 back plate; b) a (possibly optional) fitting block that mounts flush with the tube holes that serves as a custom replacement for angled fittings that provides two additional easy to access ports for draining, temp sensor, lights, etc. This block will ensure that fittings line up with the holes in the M1 back plate. The two blocks will be bolted together with screws and brass thread inserts (PEM nuts). The reservoir will also have two fill ports on top (lights, pressure value, etc). All fitting ports will support G1/4 threads.

At this point in time it is planned that it will be available in black or white acetal (POM), as well as frosted acrylic. The front plate will be 9mm clear acrylic with beveled edges, and will be secured with eight recessed black standard 6-32 cap screws. The seal will be a .103in (~3/32in) gasket most likely in black. The volume of the reservoir will be around 130 cubic cm. Four nickel fill plugs will be included.

The estimated price at this point is $60. It will be available through FrozenQ.

Here are some images. The front plate and edges of the reservoir are not beveled in the drawings, but should be in the final product. Maybe Necere can post a render of it mounted on the back of the M1 if there is enough interest. Alex would like to know how much interest there is.
qcsl.png

ja1f.png

983v.png


I plan to add red Monsoon compression fittings, a 120mm x 45mm radiator, a Koolance CPU 380i water block, and an MCP35X DDC pump mounted vertically in the front or horizontally in the bottom front using a Z2 120mm fan mount pump bracket, which ever will work (Mini GPU required, or none at all). The rest will be Silverstone ST45SF-G PSU, Asus ROG Impact motherboard, 16GB 2400MHz RAM, dual WD 4TB SE Enterprise drives in RAID 0, and dual 256GB Samsung 840 Pro SSDs for OS disk, Intel Smart Cache/ASUS SSD cache/RAM Disk whichever combination works the best.

Oh sweet lord jesus have mercy on my soul!
 
would it be a problem to put in a asus gtx760 2gb vga in this case

Should fit okay, unless it's oversized. The ASUS DirectCU II cooler design isn't recommended though, as you'll be blowing hot air back inside the case.

GPU:

  • Rear exhaust cards recommended.
  • Max length: 12.5" (slots 1 & 2), 11" (slot 3)
  • Max width:
    -For cards up to 11.5" in the first or second slot: 5.5" (4.7" at the PCIe power connectors)
    -For cards up to 12.5" or cards in the third slot: 4.4"

I was reading this thread backwards as I needed to catch up.

Oh no, you're supposed to start over from page 1 each time! :p
 
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