NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

I'm not so sure it's a technical problem, but more of a cost/demand. I'm in no way educated to say it's actually possible but looking at a picopsu which gives 120w. Surely you could fit 10x those components in the volume of an SFX case?
You're forgetting the power brick. Pico PSUs just do the DC-DC conversion; most of the size of a PSU is determined by the components that do the AC-DC conversion, which is what the power brick does. In ATX/SFX PSUs, it's all consolidated into a single unit.
 
People seem to forget a few things with the ST45SF(-G) PSU:

1. It's incredibly tiny

SST.ST45SF-G_12.jpg



2. It's already filled to the brim (there is a 80mm fan in that empty space)

ST45SF-G-INSIDE.jpg



3. It's really good

recommended.gif

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=319

Less crying to Silverstone to ask for impossible specs on an already best-in-class product and just learn to live with the fact that the 450W PSU is already plenty capable of running most high-end hardware that fits in this case.
 
Less crying to Silverstone to ask for impossible specs on an already best-in-class product and just learn to live with the fact that the 450W PSU is already plenty capable of running most high-end hardware that fits in this case.

Nobody needs a 600Watt psu in a M1 ...

Good lord. No matter how many times you guys keep telling me I don't need anything better than the super-awesome ST45SF, will never change the fact that I WANT something better and am willing to pay for it.

I'm not alone in this boat, and you've already got your ST45SF that apparently suits your needs just fine, so why do you continue to care what everyone else wants?
 
Good lord. No matter how many times you guys keep telling me I don't need anything better than the super-awesome ST45SF, will never change the fact that I WANT something better and am willing to pay for it.

I'm not alone in this boat, and you've already got your ST45SF that apparently suits your needs just fine, so why do you continue to care what everyone else wants?
I intend to run a top end graphics card along with a top end cpu + overclocking. I don't think that 450w will cut the mustard unfortunately. I could probably get away with 500w but then I'll worry about capacitor aging etc
 
Good lord. No matter how many times you guys keep telling me I don't need anything better than the super-awesome ST45SF, will never change the fact that I WANT something better and am willing to pay for it.

I'm not alone in this boat, and you've already got your ST45SF that apparently suits your needs just fine, so why do you continue to care what everyone else wants?

+1

Just say'n.
 
Good lord. No matter how many times you guys keep telling me I don't need anything better than the super-awesome ST45SF, will never change the fact that I WANT something better and am willing to pay for it.

I'm not alone in this boat, and you've already got your ST45SF that apparently suits your needs just fine, so why do you continue to care what everyone else wants?

I am more sympathetic to Phuncz technical concerns than milkcow's paternalism. For the most part though, the two of you are talking past each other.

Whether or not you're willing to pay for something (not even getting into your willingness to pay most likely having a limit, unless you are in the minority for whom money is no object) doesn't, by itself, change the likelihood of such a thing existing. For example, my willingness to pay for a GTI with 500hp and 100mpg does not alter the engineering and economic constraints which prevent such a thing from existing.

Put another way, Phuncz isn't telling you that you "don't need anything better than the super-awesome ST45SF"; Phuncz is telling you that you're not going to get anything better than the ST45SF in the foreseeable future, and it would be in your best interest to begin adjusting your expectations to the reality of the situation, rather than daydreaming ideal scenarios which will never come to pass.

Counterpoint: The same could've been said to wahaha and Necere, a year ago, when they said "I want a 12.6L aluminum case with support for a 240mm rad and a 12"+ graphics card!" Such a thing is too niche or That will cost too much and no one will be willing to buy it or You'll never be able to have full-size components and be able to handle the heat! (I think there are actually a decent number of these in the first 100 comments, or so). The difference is that they were capable individuals who did something about it; asking Tony Ou to serve your 500-person niche is akin to wahaha or Necere calling up Lian Li and saying "Hey, we've got a few people that would like such a thing to exist. Please take the risk upon your company to design and small-batch it for us!"
 
I don't expect Tony to come to bat just for the M1, or just for the SFF community, but primarily because Silverstone also sells SFF boxes to customers that could make use of a better, higher wattage PSU (or to cater to those interested in their cases, but have skipped them due to SFX constraints).

I don't need a 1000HP supercar that can top 240MPH, but there is one that exists. I don't really even need a 500HP car, but there are many on the market from reasonably priced to outrageous, and some that even get pretty decent gas mileage.

Silverstone will come out with a 500 or 550W SFX PSU.. eventually. They've been working on it for a while now. Myself and others voicing our interest in such, is a hell of a lot more useful to Tony, than the few that keep yelling over and over that we don't need it, and it just can't be done.
 
For me personally, I'd prefer to run closer to the middle of the curve with a PSU than on the extreme end. Therefore, I too would like to see a bit more power in a SFF PSU in my M1 build. I'm also concerned that AMD's new Hawaii-based high end offering (R9 something-or-other) might be a bit too power hungry for this PSU, and that I might have to have it :)

While I'm not a double-e, seems like maybe it's possible to add a bit more power to this PSU FF, or to make one a bit bigger and a bit more powerful. If one is not available on the market when I build, so be it.

I'm pretty sure that there will be demand for such PSUs given the trend toward smaller computers and console-busting graphics cards. The somewhat sharp reactions to people saying they'd like more power than is offered by the ST45SF seem a bit curious to me. Why not discuss how it might come to pass, as opposed to telling the person looking for it to lower their expectations? I've not know many salesmen to turn away from sales opportunities.
 
I think the sfx 450w will power the new 290x in conjunction with a lets say a 4670k. As far as the overclocks, i wouldn't expect much. But people, you should know this. Compromises had to be made for the m1, and it was known it would not possible power all the things you want. If you wanted to use a bigger psu, a custom loop, an oc'd i7+ a ~300w gpu, then you should have gotten a prodigy.
 
I agree that 500W or 550W SFX will happen, eventually. I don't begrudge you your use case, nor your desire. I think half the reason Tony Ou is around here so much is because of how much value Silverstone places in getting exactly this kind of feedback as to what use cases are being under-served.

As I said above, I'm not onboard with the sentiment of "You don't need it." But I see value in reining in outsize expectations, ie, the idea that an e-mail campaign is what it's going to take for any company to produce a Platinum/Titanium 600-650W SFX PSU. That's a teachable moment.
 
smexy, cant wait. i am not sure about the 450w psu for mine i wanted to watercool the gpu and the cpu and get some oc on a i7 but idk
 
I'm wondering what the maximum practical thickness is on rad plus fans- I'm looking at a EK-CoolStream PE 240 dual radiator that is 38 mm thick and a pair of noctua 120x25mm pwm fans- is there room for this combo? The ncase specs are for a 40 mm or thinner rad, which this is, but plus what for fans....

Again, I apologize for the ongoing questions, I am new to the liquid cooling thing- but I am not new to building computers nor fitting things nicely into nice aluminum boxes. I just want to be sure I buy nice quality components that will fit when I build and am very much enjoying the planning phase right now.
 
People seem to forget a few things with the ST45SF(-G) PSU:

1. It's incredibly tiny

SST.ST45SF-G_12.jpg



2. It's already filled to the brim (there is a 80mm fan in that empty space)

ST45SF-G-INSIDE.jpg



3. It's really good

recommended.gif

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=319

Less crying to Silverstone to ask for impossible specs on an already best-in-class product and just learn to live with the fact that the 450W PSU is already plenty capable of running most high-end hardware that fits in this case.

Quoted for truth. It's actually amazing that it even exists considering how small the market for it is, and yet some people think that Silverstone can just invest tons of R&D into meeting the constantly (and unreasonably) escalating demands.
 
the only thing i do not like are the cables ... tooooooooooo long! ... So first thing i have to do after the board and the sfx sits in there is cutting the psi, front cable and solder it on the right length
 
the only thing i do not like are the cables ... tooooooooooo long! ... So first thing i have to do after the board and the sfx sits in there is cutting the psi, front cable and solder it on the right length

The silverstone sfx PSU cables are far shorter though, than the average PSU cables ;)
 
i do not mean the normal psu cables, these i will crimp in perfect length for sure. I mean the psu cable from the case to psu and the front usb etc
 
i do not mean the normal psu cables, these i will crimp in perfect length for sure. I mean the psu cable from the case to psu and the front usb etc

Pretty sure Necere said something about asking for USB cables to be made shorter after the first sample. I guess it didn't happen.
 
I am more sympathetic to Phuncz technical concerns than milkcow's paternalism. For the most part though, the two of you are talking past each other.

Whether or not you're willing to pay for something (not even getting into your willingness to pay most likely having a limit, unless you are in the minority for whom money is no object) doesn't, by itself, change the likelihood of such a thing existing. For example, my willingness to pay for a GTI with 500hp and 100mpg does not alter the engineering and economic constraints which prevent such a thing from existing.

Put another way, Phuncz isn't telling you that you "don't need anything better than the super-awesome ST45SF"; Phuncz is telling you that you're not going to get anything better than the ST45SF in the foreseeable future, and it would be in your best interest to begin adjusting your expectations to the reality of the situation, rather than daydreaming ideal scenarios which will never come to pass.
Yes you get it. Although I agree that the 450W PSU is enough simply because the case isn't designed for much more in terms of cooling potential, you have no options. The fabled 500W SFX PSU from another company still hasn't been made as far as I know and I'm really curious if it would be as good as the Silverstone's.

It's like you said: adjust the expectations. People are filling the Ncase with so much hardware, even a Bitfenix Prodigy would cry in fear. Then they'll realize it can't be properly powered. People forget SFF is about respecting the limitations, much more than larger cases.
 
and yet some people think that Silverstone can just invest tons of R&D into meeting the constantly (and unreasonably) escalating demands.

I'm not asking for something they're not already working on.

It's like you said: adjust the expectations.

My expectations are already adjusted. I'll be fine with an ST45SF, but would just prefer the newer one they're working on. Unfortunately, I'll probably end up getting both :D


Prototype #3 looks beautiful! USB & front power/audio cables are waaay too long, though.

Not really sure where I'm gonna stash all that. Any ideas that don't involve cutting a USB cable? I've tried working with USB before and always screw it up.

Maybe snake some of the excess up along the front, beside the ODD, and then back down though the long GPU opening?
 
the only thing i do not like are the cables ... tooooooooooo long! ... So first thing i have to do after the board and the sfx sits in there is cutting the psi, front cable and solder it on the right length

Pretty sure Necere said something about asking for USB cables to be made shorter after the first sample. I guess it didn't happen.

Prototype #3 looks beautiful! USB & front power/audio cables are waaay too long, though.
The third prototype is actually using the cables out of the first prototype. LL only got two sets of cable samples from their supplier to make the prototypes, so the third didn't come with any. The USB and audio cables will be shorter on the production cases.
 
That's good to hear, thanks for the pictures and update Necere. Was the original backer happy with his 2k purchase ?
 
guys, relax ... I just payed 261$ (+50$ tax to come) for a case I do not NEED at all, but just want to have ... ;)

I feel that, did that same (well $205), then I went ahead and bought a H220, and now a X-star 2560x1440 monitor for a setup I cant even build yet. My GTX 480 is not going to like pushing those pixels. The things we do for the M1 lol :D
 
I feel that, did that same (well $205), then I went ahead and bought a H220, and now a X-star 2560x1440 monitor for a setup I cant even build yet. My GTX 480 is not going to like pushing those pixels. The things we do for the M1 lol :D


Yeah, I imagine a lot of us are in the very same boat. I know I went from doing a motherboard & psu swap to a major overhaul to an entirely new build. And I can't even build it for a few months. So it goes.
 
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