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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
- Start date
2x240 rads and a 3.5" HDD
?I think some people are overeastimating the actual size of this case ...
vipz
Gawd
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I checked out the comparison shots on page 1 again, and it dawned on me that even the shots against the Node 304 and Prodigy don't really do the M1 justice. I think if people see the M1 side-by-side with something like the Antec 300 - a standard mid-tower on the smaller end of the spectrum, I would say - it will blow their minds.
Alternatively, something like the Corsair 350D or the TJ08E would also do.
Alternatively, something like the Corsair 350D or the TJ08E would also do.
I think you have to see them in real life
The Node is 1.5 times the size of the M1 in volume.
The Prodigy is 2.9 times the size of the M1 in volume. (including handles)
The TJ08-E is 2.4 times the size of the M1 in volume.
The 350D is 3.3 time the size of the M1 in volume (and actually on the bigger side of mATX cases)
I know how big it is, because I actually made a hand drawing with the dimensions and I currently own a SG05, which I acutally bought over the Prodigy, the Node 304, the PC-Q08, the PC-Q18 and the CM120 not only because it had the smallest footprint of all that cases, but also because it was significantly smaller in volume than all of them. The footprint of the M1 is even smaller ... The footprint of the M1 is almost half of the Node 304 or Prodigy ... That's the space it takes up on my desk and that is fairly significant
Compare it's dimensions to the Silverstone unit and see if they are a match or real close. If they match up that should tell you I imagine. I haven't checked so I don't know.
That just is a standard slim slot loading drive. It is actually a Panasonic UJ8C5. So I'd say it should fit in the M1
harsaphes
Supreme [H]ardness
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Patiently waiting for the build threads so I can rip one off.
Wondering which way to go with fans for the case bottom - slim or normal 120mm fans.
Intended setup
- Asrock Z87E ITX (for top biased CPU socket, Excellent bios level fan controls (OS independent))
- i5 4370
- CPU cooler of some sort, tower design to encourage upward heat removal through top of case, complying with natural passive convection flows to minimise fan requirements.
- ASUS DCII 670
- SFX PSU - modded silverstone 450G Modular at this stage.
- 2x SSD inside
- 1x 3.5" for cheap storage, WD Green 1-3Tb (looking for quieter and affordable options at this stage)
- ODD if my existing slot loader from laptop works (will solder up a cable/adapter)
Cooling design is to have cool air from the bottom and the side panel. Two 120's in the bottom and one in the side panel over the mobo. The hdd bay could also have another, but not sure yet. Hot air out the top, hopefully fan forced too, but shall see how much room there is after installing the cooler and mobo.
With a large graphics card, non blower type (already have a 670 DC II, apparently in the "Just fits" category), there will a degree of issue with heat being dumped into the case.
As part of the planning for thermal management, and to deal with this, the two bottom 120 intakes should help. These fans will be helping with a positive pressure case setup, as well as providing a positive supply of cool air and overcoming intake resistance through the restrictive grille and dust mesh I will be adding.
This space I understand is fairly tight. Looking at pictures, this space is estimated to be around 27mm? between the inside floor and between the 2nd and 3rd slot (bottom of the GPU heatsink shroud). So a dual slot graphics card would provide Just enough room to fit 25mm fans with 2mm or so to spare.
Fan intakes need room to breathe, but outlets tend to be more lenient, however it still feels fairly tight. There is therefore the option to use thinner fans. Gelid 15mm fans come to mine as a silent option, giving around 12mm? space between the fan and the graphics. However slim fans come with lower static pressures, more noise and less airflow.
Between say a 25mm thick nexus basic (or GT 1150 as an alternative), or a 15mm gelid slim fan, which way would you lean towards? Its a noise vs airflow vs suffocation of fans.
The added performance of a thicker fan in a tight space, or give it a bit of breathing space at the expense of fan performance.
Additionally, how helpful would it be to create a duct to feed the output of the slim fans straight to the GPU intake fans, forcing air through the GPU to reduce circulation of hot air. Only really possible with the slim fans from a space point of view.
Intended setup
- Asrock Z87E ITX (for top biased CPU socket, Excellent bios level fan controls (OS independent))
- i5 4370
- CPU cooler of some sort, tower design to encourage upward heat removal through top of case, complying with natural passive convection flows to minimise fan requirements.
- ASUS DCII 670
- SFX PSU - modded silverstone 450G Modular at this stage.
- 2x SSD inside
- 1x 3.5" for cheap storage, WD Green 1-3Tb (looking for quieter and affordable options at this stage)
- ODD if my existing slot loader from laptop works (will solder up a cable/adapter)
Cooling design is to have cool air from the bottom and the side panel. Two 120's in the bottom and one in the side panel over the mobo. The hdd bay could also have another, but not sure yet. Hot air out the top, hopefully fan forced too, but shall see how much room there is after installing the cooler and mobo.
With a large graphics card, non blower type (already have a 670 DC II, apparently in the "Just fits" category), there will a degree of issue with heat being dumped into the case.
As part of the planning for thermal management, and to deal with this, the two bottom 120 intakes should help. These fans will be helping with a positive pressure case setup, as well as providing a positive supply of cool air and overcoming intake resistance through the restrictive grille and dust mesh I will be adding.
This space I understand is fairly tight. Looking at pictures, this space is estimated to be around 27mm? between the inside floor and between the 2nd and 3rd slot (bottom of the GPU heatsink shroud). So a dual slot graphics card would provide Just enough room to fit 25mm fans with 2mm or so to spare.
Fan intakes need room to breathe, but outlets tend to be more lenient, however it still feels fairly tight. There is therefore the option to use thinner fans. Gelid 15mm fans come to mine as a silent option, giving around 12mm? space between the fan and the graphics. However slim fans come with lower static pressures, more noise and less airflow.
Between say a 25mm thick nexus basic (or GT 1150 as an alternative), or a 15mm gelid slim fan, which way would you lean towards? Its a noise vs airflow vs suffocation of fans.
The added performance of a thicker fan in a tight space, or give it a bit of breathing space at the expense of fan performance.
Additionally, how helpful would it be to create a duct to feed the output of the slim fans straight to the GPU intake fans, forcing air through the GPU to reduce circulation of hot air. Only really possible with the slim fans from a space point of view.
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2x240 rads and a 3.5" HDD
I think some people are overeastimating the actual size of this case ...
maybe but i gotta dream big!
Phuncz
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I'm expecting this topic will contain a lot of "I didn't expect the case to be THIS small" posts once the cases start to arrive at people's houses. We'll see a lot of hardware that won't fit2x240 rads and a 3.5" HDD
I think some people are overeastimating the actual size of this case ...
Not that it's Necere's fault but people not reading the specs.I highly doubt the two fans will really make a difference. Don't forget you are going to create turbulence between the case fans and the GPU fans unless they are tuned exactly right. This will create harmonics and will probably negatively impact perfomance. If you want fresh air for your GPU, just use ducts or fan adapters, like this for example:
But adding fans so close to other fans is rarely a good idea unless you are an aerodynamics engineer.
drklu
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Hopefully I am able to get a H220 (I started a WTB thread if anyone wants to sell one). I plan to use it to cool just the cpu. Since some believe a rad in the bottom won't really increase the loops cooling potential I decided just to leave the graphics card air cooled for now until additional testing can be done. Once I get the case I will buy a 240mm and a 120mm slim rads and a water block for the graphics card and test it to see if either combination decreases temps. Then use the setup with the coolest temperatures. Also, placing the fans on the bottom of the lower rad (below gfx card) should eliminate any space constraints you would have putting the fans on the top of the rad. IE not enough space between the rad and the gfx card for the fans to perform as they should.
This seems to be the only way we will know for sure if a bottom rad is feasible and if so what size and fan orientation to use.
This seems to be the only way we will know for sure if a bottom rad is feasible and if so what size and fan orientation to use.
AFD
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Wouldn't it be okay to have the bottom case intake fan running slowly enough that it was pulling up some fresh air, but not necessarily force-feeding huge amounts of air to the GPU fan? Maybe sub-900RPM or so?
Phuncz
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It wouldn't accomplish anything, as we are talking about 30mm, a little wider than my thumb. Because of this, it is adviseable to use ducting to force the fans to take air from outside the case. But adding fans in this situation will almost always negatively impact performance and noise.
The problem is you can't because every fan ramps differently. Even exactly the same fans might run slightly different, enough to cause noise. Just try it: put two different case fans up against each other and then evaluate them seperately.
The problem is you can't because every fan ramps differently. Even exactly the same fans might run slightly different, enough to cause noise. Just try it: put two different case fans up against each other and then evaluate them seperately.
wahaha360
Gawd
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- Sep 8, 2012
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I'm considering a trip to Taiwan to ship M1s to backers.
This could minimize Delivery Time, VAT and Tariff for everyone, plus I don't mind getting my M1 by Xmas
I'm looking into DHL, UPS and Fedex from Taiwan, which are all expensive. Someone mentioned EMS, I have to do more research into that.
If anyone has good info, do share.
LL was able to ship prototype to us via USPS from Taiwan, I have to find out how that works.
This could minimize Delivery Time, VAT and Tariff for everyone, plus I don't mind getting my M1 by Xmas
I'm looking into DHL, UPS and Fedex from Taiwan, which are all expensive. Someone mentioned EMS, I have to do more research into that.
If anyone has good info, do share.
LL was able to ship prototype to us via USPS from Taiwan, I have to find out how that works.
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drklu
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When talking about a gfx card with a blower style only one fan would be directly "feeding" the gfx card with air. The other fan would simply be blowing on the underside of the card (Personally I wouldnt put two fans on the bottom). I'm not sure how you could have fan speed adjust to gfx card temperature anyways. It was really just an idea I thought would be clever to avoid the fans blowing more air at the gfx card than it can intake.
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vipz
Gawd
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I'm considering a trip to Taiwan to ship M1s to backers.
This could minimize Delivery Time, VAT and Tariff for everyone, plus I don't mind getting my M1 by Xmas
I'm looking into DHL, UPS and Fedex from Taiwan, which are all expensive. Someone mentioned EMS, I have to do more research into that.
If anyone has good info, do share.
LL was able to ship prototype to us via USPS from Taiwan, I have to find out how that works.
What about shipping it from China or Hong Kong? I'm always under the impression is that shipping cost from those locations are ridiculously low given the prevalence of vendors on ebay that ship from there.
Does Lian Li actually fabricate their cases in Taiwan and not China?
wahaha360
Gawd
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M1 is made in the Taiwan factory.
Isn't there still some difficulty for Taiwanese companies to trade in mainland China? At least since neither country officially recognises the other since the civil war that split them apart. (My political knowledge could be quite out of date
)and this...
i am a little concerned i havent recieved the email either but im hoping its just cause i was late order
I was travelling so I have made my contribution on the last 6 hours of saturday. I received a confirmation email 2 days ago.
i will have to sorth thropugh the s[pam mail, my concern is i used paypal to buy it so where will the email even go? my cousin actually bought it for me as a bday gift, YAY i just want to make sure i dont miss out on the email and in turn miss out on the case
AFD
2[H]4U
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I'm considering a trip to Taiwan to ship M1s to backers.
This could minimize Delivery Time, VAT and Tariff for everyone, plus I don't mind getting my M1 by Xmas
I'm looking into DHL, UPS and Fedex from Taiwan, which are all expensive. Someone mentioned EMS, I have to do more research into that.
I'm all for getting the M1 sooner, rather than later.. but won't shipping from Taiwan possibly force US backers to have to deal with customs and/or import taxes, that we weren't originally planning to deal with??
I have literally no idea how that works, as all of my purchases have been made in the US.
I'll be using the Asus motherboard to control and limit the bottom intake fan (below the GPU intake), hopefully to operate significantly slower than the GPU fan (probably 300 to 900RPM. It'll be an HSP Noctua F12, so airflow shouldn't be too much, but enough to pull some fresh air through the filtered bottom. I really don't think a GPU fan will do a great job at pulling air through a filter with ducting in between. Maybe?
Also, pretty sure the most recent renderings of the M1 at IGG & Ncases show a GPU w/case fan directly beneath. Might not be ideal, but the case was designed for filtered bottom intake fans.
That's all in the future, anyway. Plan to play w/Intel graphics for a while until I can get power-efficient Nvidia Maxwell in an Asus Mini sub-6" form-factor.
I'm not a water cooling guy but for those who want to watercool the CPU and GPU, wouldn't it be possible to use something like the H220 on the side panel AND an external 92mm radiator on the back using the pass-throughs?
That might defeat the purpose of having a neat little case like this, I don't know.
That might defeat the purpose of having a neat little case like this, I don't know.
drklu
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It would defiantly hurt the aesthetics of the case in my opinion. It is either doing that or mounting one below the gfx card. Either solution doesn't seem that great honestly. Internal below the rad you have the issue with slim rads/fans not cooling that great. With the external mounting you have the problem with aesthetics and a very small rad. Not sure what is better.
Im using the scythe 12mm fans on one of my radiators in my prodigy and while they are obviously not as good as full size fans, they do the job well enough and they aren't ever loud, even when its on my desk next to me they aren't audible unless the room is absolutely silent.
I'm sure Wahaha will figure out the best way to deal with shipping. I have confidence in him.
If you didn't get a email by now... I'd say worry and get it straightened out quick. Just my opinion.
As for build plans. Nothing fancy. A simple Lanbox:
CPU: 4770K (already bought it)
Mobo: Unsure yet. Probably top of the line.
GPU: Thinking GTX680 or equivalent depending on what is out when case arrives. Reference card type where the heat is blown out the back.
Cooling: Some type of hydro cooler unit. I don't do water cooling so keeping it simple. I'm not much of a overclocker either.
PSU: Silverstone 450w of course.
Hard Drive: 512Gb SSD. Maybe a 750GB SSD. This is where I'll go all out. I like all on one drive systems
OOD: One of the Blueray units. DvD if I cant get a BR.
That's all I have planned in my head so far. Like I said nothing fancy. No idea what I'll do with the second M1 case but I'll find a purpose for it somewhere later on. We're building a new house so I'm sure a room somewhere will need it. Looking back I probably should have bought two more for the extra bedrooms. Oh, well.
If you didn't get a email by now... I'd say worry and get it straightened out quick. Just my opinion.
As for build plans. Nothing fancy. A simple Lanbox:
CPU: 4770K (already bought it)
Mobo: Unsure yet. Probably top of the line.
GPU: Thinking GTX680 or equivalent depending on what is out when case arrives. Reference card type where the heat is blown out the back.
Cooling: Some type of hydro cooler unit. I don't do water cooling so keeping it simple. I'm not much of a overclocker either.
PSU: Silverstone 450w of course.
Hard Drive: 512Gb SSD. Maybe a 750GB SSD. This is where I'll go all out. I like all on one drive systems
OOD: One of the Blueray units. DvD if I cant get a BR.
That's all I have planned in my head so far. Like I said nothing fancy. No idea what I'll do with the second M1 case but I'll find a purpose for it somewhere later on. We're building a new house so I'm sure a room somewhere will need it. Looking back I probably should have bought two more for the extra bedrooms. Oh, well.
Emails should go out to whatever address you used when backing the campaign on IGG or buying through the website. Check the junk/spam folder in all the email providers you use. If you still can't find it, maybe you mistyped your address.
I've had great experiences with proxy bidding on items from Yahoo Auctions Japan and having them shipped to me via EMS. EMS is fast and trackable, however my local US post office normally wants to hold on to EMS packages and have me come pick them up and sign for them. I've never had an EMS package left on my doorstep. This could be a positive or negative depending on what you like.I'm considering a trip to Taiwan to ship M1s to backers.
This could minimize Delivery Time, VAT and Tariff for everyone, plus I don't mind getting my M1 by Xmas
I'm looking into DHL, UPS and Fedex from Taiwan, which are all expensive. Someone mentioned EMS, I have to do more research into that.
If anyone has good info, do share.
LL was able to ship prototype to us via USPS from Taiwan, I have to find out how that works.
drklu
2[H]4U
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I don't know about anyone else but I would find pleasure in picking up the M1 from the post office
For those in the U.S. who are looking for a Swiftech H220, NCIX began offering this product to U.S. customers again a few weeks ago. I live in California and bought one from their U.S. website in early September and I have received it. From their web description it appears that they may be transferring stock from their Canadian warehouse to their U.S. warehouse as needed. So anyway, they are presently available in the U.S. from NCIX.
Here is the link where I bought mine: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=79583
Hopefully this will help some of you who are still looking for the H220.
Here is the link where I bought mine: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=79583
Hopefully this will help some of you who are still looking for the H220.
I'm considering a trip to Taiwan to ship M1s to backers.
This could minimize Delivery Time, VAT and Tariff for everyone, plus I don't mind getting my M1 by Xmas
I'm looking into DHL, UPS and Fedex from Taiwan, which are all expensive. Someone mentioned EMS, I have to do more research into that.
If anyone has good info, do share.
LL was able to ship prototype to us via USPS from Taiwan, I have to find out how that works.
EMS is basicaly a express service provided by the different postal service providers around the world. It isn't a single company like UPS or Fedex. The goods are transported by the different members of this consortium. In the US this would be the USPS, in Taiwan it's Chunghwa Post Co.
If you got the package via an USPS delivery, chances are Lian-LI either send it via the EMS service or another international service provided by the official Taiwan postal service
Import duty for aluminum computer cases:
Taiwan -> US for product values < 200USD (excluding shipping/insurance):
0% duty of product value
Taiwan -> US for product values > 200USD (excluding shipping/insurance):
2.5% duty of product value
________
Taiwan -> EU
US -> EU
x% VAT (depends on country) of total value (i.e. product+shipping+insurance)
6% duty (of total product value only - if product value is >150€ = about 200USD)
________
So please wahaha360 declare the product value, shipping costs and insurance correctly, so that we in the EU don't have to pay 6% extra duty
Shipping from Taiwan would save you the import duty from the US
Taiwan -> US for product values < 200USD (excluding shipping/insurance):
0% duty of product value
Taiwan -> US for product values > 200USD (excluding shipping/insurance):
2.5% duty of product value
________
Taiwan -> EU
US -> EU
x% VAT (depends on country) of total value (i.e. product+shipping+insurance)
6% duty (of total product value only - if product value is >150€ = about 200USD)
________
So please wahaha360 declare the product value, shipping costs and insurance correctly, so that we in the EU don't have to pay 6% extra duty
Shipping from Taiwan would save you the import duty from the US
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Taiwan -> EU
US -> EU
x% VAT (depends on country) of total value (i.e. product+shipping+insurance)
6% duty (of product value only >150 = about 200USD)
________
So please wahaha360 declare the product value, shipping costs and insurance correctly, so that we in the EU don't have to pay 6% extra duty
Yes it's an important point
(But a tiny correction) It's true if value of product itself is under 150 euro then you don't have to pay any import duty, but if the value of the product is over 150 euro then you do pay the import duty over the whole price including shipping, insurance and holding fees. (And then sales tax on top of that.)
So if Wahaha360 sets the value of the product itself at say US$180 (135 euro), and lists the shipping as $65 then we'd pay only sales tax. Which is good
But if he lists the product over 150 euro then we'd pay also extra import duty over the whole $245 we've paid. So 245 x 0.06 + sales tax. Depending on country specific sales tax that's about 17-18 euros (US$23-24).
See also http://www.dutycalculator.com/hs-co...r-of-aluminium/7616.99.5090/7616.99.9099/762/
Yes it's an important point
(But a tiny correction) It's true if value of product itself is under 150 euro then you don't have to pay any import duty, but if the value of the product is over 150 euro then you do pay the import duty over the whole price including shipping, insurance and holding fees. (And then sales tax on top of that.)
yes, that is actually what I meant
I have looked up enough TARIC/HS codes already and also worked in the transport management for company.
VAT is based on CIF, Duty on FOB.