NASA's "Green" Lander Crashes and Burns

Umm this doesn't have anything to do with budget cuts (however retarded those cuts are). Its a test vehicle , sometimes they crash .. its apart of the process.

They had a test Space Shuttle as well (Enterprise) that never saw actual duty in space , it was purely in case shit went wrong and it crashed. With any new kind of space vehicle you gotta learn to crash before you can fly ;)
 
I wonder if this Green lander will turn out to be gay... :)eek:[COLOR="22222"] What is wrong me me today and these puns...)[/COLOR]
 
jpm100 said:
The problem is that this could be "another" example.

Must be nice to work in a workplace where 'shit happens' is consider an excuse no matter how often 'shit happens'.
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So from your position on this topic you obviously must agree that we need steep cuts in our Defense Budget. And the wars obviously must end, as they are incredibly inefficient and the epitome of "shit happens".
 
Business6 said:
I'd be happy as hell if this was the extent of our failures and we never had another Apollo 1, Challenger, or Columbia. It will happen, of course, but it is much better if those chances are potentially reduced by things going wrong with unmanned prototypes.
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give how insanely dangerous space flight is just look at the Russians NASA has an EPIC record

also for an experimental aircraft let alone a manned space craft 2 flights out of 100 is pretty damn good

NASA is working at the bleeding edge here and shit happens because we dont know with out doing it

sure when you work in some field were people already know the out come not getting it right gets you shown the door but in a world of the unknown you cant work like that

did every one miss this was a TEST of new tech WELL NO SHIT its going take some work
very few times do you get it right the first time lest of all in the aerospace world
 
also even thinking shutting down the Shuttle and cutting the budget is like shitting all over the graves of the brave man and woman that gave there lives in the name of exploration
Congress should be ashamed

the airframe of the Shuttle it self was fine it just needed to be upgraded in to the 21st century from the 70's and 80's tech in it

the Shuttle program was never run the way it was designed to be which was with to fly with minor failures and use back up systems but NASA wanted 100% all the time so the budges ballooned
best example was the main computer
there are 4 computers on the shuttle all working in sync
3 run the same code base the 4th runs an independent code base
the system was setup to fly with 1 or 2 computers down it only needs 2 a main and a back up really
NASA would never fly with out all 4
 
If they switch to the new HAL9000 computer they only need one. It is the most reliable computer and has never made a mistake.
 
It's not a waste of money they made a great video. 250k hits and counting
 
jpm100 said:
Yes I work at a place that has do something to survive and 'shit happens' would get you shown the door..
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So what exactly is it that you do for a job?

Obviously not a rocket scientist...brain surgeon perhaps?
 
cageymaru said:
Well compared to other departments, I'd say yes. America doesn't value it's own ideas like it used to and would rather outsource to "poorer" countries. Funding for the Space Program contradicts this philosophy as it requires actual man hours from scientists here and that isn't cheap. It almost seems that yearly NASA's budget shrinks and coincidentally we also hear how America isn't innovating like it did from the Industrial Age until the 1990's.

I wonder why. :rolleyes:
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America became a technological super power primarily due to WWII. There is an old saying, to the victors go the spoils. At the conclusion of the war American intelligence teams had access to ALL of the medical, scientific, and technological data around the world.

At the end of WWII the factories around the world were flattened, but not in the US. Congress enacted the Marshall Plan which offered interest free loans to countries that wanted to rebuild, they just had to buy America goods. That is what propelled us into being a technological super power, before WWII we were in a great depression.
 
Elios said:
thats the under statement of the decade there
less then .1 cent of your tax dollars goes to NASA
HELL ICE and the DOJ have bigger budgets what does that tell you
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Greater than .40¢ out of every dollar controlled by Congress goes to a defense contractor.

It's the new "unemployement welfare", a hidden unemployment tax, which is funding a "jobs for constituents program".

And if you ever get to see the offshore tax data of our politicians and celebrities, you'll find out who benefits from the profit scheme and how. In WW2 there were over 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires created in America.

Gentlemen. I present to you, five star general, and the 34th President of these United States, Dwight D. Eisenhower -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

And if you give two shits, watch the following documentary with a pad of paper or a calculator. In the last decade we have made the general public poor, maxed out our national debt, and created billionaires out of millionaires.

And you know the most criminal part of it all? You and I will never pay that debt off, that burden will be carried by our children, and their children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zt9BZD7mlc

Fuck it, I'll let Neil take it from here.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvNX72kWODs
 
Lith1um said:
Greater than .40¢ out of every dollar controlled by Congress goes to a defense contractor.
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And then imagine how much of each of those .40c is wasted in defense contractor delays, corruption, pointless changes in specification, scrapped programmes etc. etc.

Probably less than 0.15c gets properly spent.
 
One more thing, NASA only got as far as it has because their interests coincided with the defense industry. The defense industry wanted bigger and better launch vehicles to carry weapons.

Just like how the story of how the nuclear power industry in America was diverted from Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors, which do not create weapons grade isotopes, to water cooled reactors that produce isotopes which are suitable for the production of weapons grade materials. We had a fully functional LFTR, and a functioning prototype jet engine which it could power. The program was only funded in the first place as a back door program by an Air Force major general.

I won't go into the physical design characteristics, or why they made so much sense. What I will do is post a few links so you can find out for yourself. The military industrial complex changes society in more ways than one. We could have lived in a world were there was no Chernobyl accident, no Fukushima, no Simi Valley accident, no SL-1, no Three Mile Island, no Windscale, no Hanford, No Hiroshima, No Nagasaki......etc, etc, etc.

LFTR in 16 minutes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUeBSoEnRk

LFTR the full story, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3rL08J7fDA

And seriously, what SANE mind does this? --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY

Americans need to look around, and stop all the military and police state bullshit. It's like, the Planet of The Apes. Waring, ignorant, myopic, brutish generals all wielding great influence, while scientists scurry around like frightened or disinterested rats building them machines of war, mass incarceration, or mass surveillance.

And in the shadows, the profiteers.
 
U.S. partners with China on LFTRs. Why should we partner with anyone when we had a full scale, operational unit, 40+ years ago? FAIL.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/int...ical-intrigue/11586?tag=content;siu-container

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/us-partners-with-china-on-new-nuclear/17037

/Back story,

The Chinese have cornered the rare earth market, with a 95% stake. There is only one rare earth mine in the United States, Molycorp, and it is not operational yet. The Chinese government has placed a 100% export tariff for the sale of rare earth minerals to foreign countries.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/05/rare-earth-mining-rises-again/
 
Lith1um said:
One more thing, NASA only got as far as it has because their interests coincided with the defense industry. The defense industry wanted bigger and better launch vehicles to carry weapons.

Just like how the story of how the nuclear power industry in America was diverted from Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors, which do not create weapons grade isotopes, to water cooled reactors that produce isotopes which are suitable for the production of weapons grade materials. We had a fully functional LFTR, and a functioning prototype jet engine which it could power. The program was only funded in the first place as a back door program by an Air Force major general.

I won't go into the physical design characteristics, or why they made so much sense. What I will do is post a few links so you can find out for yourself. The military industrial complex changes society in more ways than one. We could have lived in a world were there was no Chernobyl accident, no Fukushima, no Simi Valley accident, no SL-1, no Three Mile Island, no Windscale, no Hanford, No Hiroshima, No Nagasaki......etc, etc, etc.

LFTR in 16 minutes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUeBSoEnRk

LFTR the full story, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3rL08J7fDA

And seriously, what SANE mind does this? --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY

Americans need to look around, and stop all the military and police state bullshit. It's like, the Planet of The Apes. Waring, ignorant, myopic, brutish generals all wielding great influence, while scientists scurry around like frightened or disinterested rats building them machines of war, mass incarceration, or mass surveillance.

And in the shadows, the profiteers.
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Extremely sharp post. Thorium breeder reactors are far superior to the nuclear reactors in use today.
 
SkribbelKat said:
The fire and explosion were environmentally friendly ones. Didn't you hear all the plants and trees singing joyously in the background noise on the video?
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Your right, all of that carbon dioxide will help them with photosynthesis :).
 
AliceCooper said:
Your right, all of that carbon dioxide will help them with photosynthesis :).
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It does. It's basically plant food. If we want to have more plants, we're going to need more sources of carbon dioxide, especially clean renewable resources like explosions. :D
 
Lith1um said:
U.S. partners with China on LFTRs. Why should we partner with anyone when we had a full scale, operational unit, 40+ years ago? FAIL.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/int...ical-intrigue/11586?tag=content;siu-container

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/us-partners-with-china-on-new-nuclear/17037

/Back story,

The Chinese have cornered the rare earth market, with a 95% stake. There is only one rare earth mine in the United States, Molycorp, and it is not operational yet. The Chinese government has placed a 100% export tariff for the sale of rare earth minerals to foreign countries.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/05/rare-earth-mining-rises-again/
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Well its a good thing we found this in Nebraska then : http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-earth-may-create-nebraska-boomtown/?page=all

Elk Creek, Neb. (population 112), may not be so tiny much longer. Reports suggest that the southeastern Nebraska hamlet may be sitting on the world’s largest untapped deposit of “rare earth” minerals
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jpm100 said:
The problem is that this could be "another" example.

Must be nice to work in a workplace where 'shit happens' is consider an excuse no matter how often 'shit happens'.
Click to expand...

There is a good expression I heard once.

"There is a time in the history of everything that works, when it didn't. It took failures to figure out how to succeed"
 
Lith1um said:
. We could have lived in a world were there was no Chernobyl accident, no Fukushima, no Simi Valley accident, no SL-1, no Three Mile Island, no Windscale, no Hanford, No Hiroshima, No Nagasaki......etc, etc, etc.
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Hanford, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki were a necessary evil to break the will of an enemy. Good luck stopping future wars though.
 
I mostly love NASA, but I do find it the reception to disappointed customers amusing. We not only need to fork over money to the government under coercion, we need to be damn grateful for the privilege. Anything less is not only unacceptable, but downright idiotic!
 
It's well known that space technology is not an . . . .




















































Exact science



YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
jpm100 said:
Yes I work at a place that has do something to survive and 'shit happens' would get you shown the door.. You might survive one maybe two if you had an awesome track record, but you would have a fraction of the responsibility for a long time. Just like most real jobs. We obviously need to bid this shit out to private contractor if you have have any connection to it.
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Having worked for several defense contractors, I find your insinuation that the private sector wouldn't also undergo trial and error in engineering ventures to be painfully stupid. Since you've obviously never worked for a government contractor, I'll let you in on a little hint: They're just as wasteful, sluggish, and bureaucratic as their employing government agency. Contractors are at the will of these so-demonized government agencies, so the causes of government overspending just passes on to the contractor plus their profit margins on top.

But in this day and age of government=bad and private=good rhetorical nonsense, you almost have to expect half the comments on a thread like this to be from ill-informed monkeys. Monkeys which repeat verbatim the dogmatic non-facts fed to them by a handful of politically motivated information sources: talk radio, Fox news, and the mysterious source of information they can't specifically name after denying that Fox news is their primary source of poorly formed opinions.
 
Dethred said:
But in this day and age of government=bad and private=good rhetorical nonsense, you almost have to expect half the comments on a thread like this to be from ill-informed monkeys. Monkeys which repeat verbatim the dogmatic non-facts fed to them by a handful of politically motivated information sources: talk radio, Fox news, and the mysterious source of information they can't specifically name after denying that Fox news is their primary source of poorly formed opinions.
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Oh my god I literally laughed out loud. Bravo sir.
 
jpm100 said:
The problem is that this could be "another" example.

Must be nice to work in a workplace where 'shit happens' is consider an excuse no matter how often 'shit happens'.
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It's not so much "shit happens" as "there's better be a goddamn good reason why this shit happened".
 
BoogerBomb said:
Not everything in space exploration can go 100% flawless. Shit does happen, but this will be another example cited by people who say NASA is 100% useless.
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Exactly, it will be another example, after the other numerous examples that demonstrate that NASA is not a cost effective business. They have demonstrated time and time again that they aren't able to accomplish anything cost effectively or on reasonable timelines or even with a high rate of success.

Space exploration, just like aviation, needs to be privatized. Who builds the most competative jets today, from price, performance, reliability standpoint. NASA? Of course not. If it weren't for how engrained NASA is in the American psyche like football and baseball and that massive amount of funds that are absolutely shoveled through their doors endlessly every year, they would be gone.

And we need to stop with these manned missions, they aren't necessary. When unmanned missions become so cheap and routine that we have even the slightest hope of habitating another planet, then bring them in, but for now leave it for the machines.
 
Zumino Zufeilon said:
There is a good expression I heard once.

"There is a time in the history of everything that works, when it didn't. It took failures to figure out how to succeed"
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And if we left aviation up to a government organization like NASA, we'd have a few extremely expensive biplanes flying around the crashed half the time. And each time there was a colossal failure, they'd just go "oopsie, more money please" and they'd receive it to much applause.

A much better expression is "Competition improves the breed". This has been true since the first microbes battled each other for domination in the primordial goo, and the reason we exist as we are today. A singular government entity that is rewarded regardless of success or failure and has no true competition like NASA is thus bound to mediocrity, inefficiency, and ultimately failure.

I don't mind government contracts, but they should simply list requirements just as they do for our superjets and allow competition in the global market place to compete with one another.
 
Ducman69 said:
Exactly, it will be another example, after the other numerous examples that demonstrate that NASA is not a cost effective business. They have demonstrated time and time again that they aren't able to accomplish anything cost effectively or on reasonable timelines or even with a high rate of success.

Space exploration, just like aviation, needs to be privatized. Who builds the most competative jets today, from price, performance, reliability standpoint. NASA? Of course not. If it weren't for how engrained NASA is in the American psyche like football and baseball and that massive amount of funds that are absolutely shoveled through their doors endlessly every year, they would be gone.
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People who got where they are today by stepping on the shoulders of giants shouldn't denigrate the giants for the scars they earned and the mistakes made in getting there.
 
NASA isn't in the business of providing jets for commercial airlines or fighters

Ducman69 said:
Exactly, it will be another example, after the other numerous examples that demonstrate that NASA is not a cost effective business. They have demonstrated time and time again that they aren't able to accomplish anything cost effectively or on reasonable timelines or even with a high rate of success.

Space exploration, just like aviation, needs to be privatized. Who builds the most competative jets today, from price, performance, reliability standpoint. NASA? Of course not. If it weren't for how engrained NASA is in the American psyche like football and baseball and that massive amount of funds that are absolutely shoveled through their doors endlessly every year, they would be gone.

And we need to stop with these manned missions, they aren't necessary. When unmanned missions become so cheap and routine that we have even the slightest hope of habitating another planet, then bring them in, but for now leave it for the machines.
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Did anyone watch the video showing the previous 8 or so successful tethered test they did?

I guess not. The odd fail is progress and makes a better product.

Look at Apollo 1, terrible accident but it was the wake up call that re-focused everyone and make the whole program far safer and the success it became. That accident/failure was possibly the best thing that happened to the project.

Gus and the guys didn't die in vain, bless them.
 
building airlines has a well defined scope and expectations, and the next model is an incremental improvement over the last.

NASA isn't trying to be a commercial enterprise, it is trying to do science. Much of their stuff has never been done before, they can't just simply spec something out and be done with it.

The components they can spec out and have private industry produce, they do.

Ducman69 said:
I don't mind government contracts, but they should simply list requirements just as they do for our superjets and allow competition in the global market place to compete with one another.
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