NAS build around Norco 4220

J

Jeroen1000

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
266
Introductory Last updated on19th June 2011

This will be the first step into building my NAS and I promise to update it every time I make progress. I am expecting it to go fairly slow because of budget constraints (this stuff is expensive you know:D) and I do a lot of research and question asking before I make a leap.

Overview picture:

Coming soon (Just notice I forgot to make one).


Step 1: Buying the Norco 4220 case

http://www.norcotek.com/item_detail.php?categoryid=1&modelno=RPC-4220

Why this Norco?

  1. Affordable (this is actually the primary reason).
  2. It supports the 120 mm fan bracket as I hope to reduce the noise somewhat. [It might not work as I have an older revision of the case. I'll have to find out!]
  3. Mini-SAS connectors will greatly reduce cable clutter.
  4. I've reads lots of goods things about it. I just hope I won't cut myself as it is reported to be sharp around the edges.



Step 2: Deciding on the Operating System

Basically, I will be going the Windows way for now. I'm already slow paced so I don't have the time needed to tweak Linux or Solaris. I do not need a server OS and will be going either for:

  1. Windows 7 Professional
  2. Windows 7 Ultimate

That having said, I will be using my motherboard SATA-ports to do some Linux/Solaris experiments when my Windows configuration is working properly.

Step 3: Selecting a RAID - controller:

Honestly, I don't know what to buy just yet. A 20-port controller is too expensive so I'll have to go the expander route. I know the Areca's play nice with the HP-expander so that is a viable option. However, there is also an Intel/LSI expander which would allow me to go the LSI-route (as it is LSI-based).

Questions I still have not resolved completely:
- I don't really know whether there is a compatible expander for Adaptec RAID-controllers?
- Assume for a minute, every drive can supply 100 MiB/sec of data. This amounts to 2 GiB/sec (as there will be at most 20 drives). SAS 6 gigabit connected to the expander will supply 4 lanes thus yielding 24 gigabit. Substract the overhead and we get 19,2 gigabit/sec (= 2,4 GiB/sec). Am I right to assume there will be no bottleneck when using an expander because I have sufficient bandwidth. Or is there another type of overhead lurking?
- Expandability. I'll be getting about 5 WD20EADS [I'll be getting 2 TB Hitachi's instead for compatibility reasons]. But when I want to expand, I should be getting the same type of drive. However, will they still exist. Perhaps I should save up longer and buy 10 drives.
- Finally, will I buy a controller with an external port too. IF my calculations are correct, I can quite easily connect 20 drives to 1 expander. It might become attractive to purchase a second Norco and equip it with an expander.


Step 4: Selecting the other hardware

I'm mainly focussing on pratical side of things. I'm comfortable building a computer but nonetheless this build does require some special attention in certain area's.
  • Taking special care my motherboard has enough PCIe slots
  • It has to be compatible with my RAID-card
  • The PSU will need a good 12V rail (single-rail design would be the way to go)
  • I will be using a dual port NIC to do NIC-teaming (link aggregation,...)
  • Find out whether special cables are needed to connect the RAID-card to the expander vs connecting drives to the expander

Remark: I didn't know for sure why to get a high amp. 12v rail. Apparenylty, 20 drives draw a lot of start up current and if you cannot rely on staggered spin up, you will have to make sure to buy an overspeced PSU.
 
Last edited:
Step 1: Buying the Norco 4220 case updates: STEP AWAITING FINAL UPDATE

I got the Norco so here are some pictures. BTW does anyone know what the white J1 connector is for?
Answer: It is kept for future LED setting function. Right now it is not ready.
(thanks to Norco support)

1. The front of the case where you can see the slot for a slimline optical station, power and reset buttons as well as an USB-port, a power led, a HDD led and 2 NIC status lights:

dscf3864.jpg


2. Inside view of the case:

dscf3867.jpg


3.The different headers in the case: NIC leds, HDD led, reset and power switch, USB header:

dscf3871.jpg


4.The accessoires that were in the box that was in the case. Notice the one weird bag with just 1 srew lol:

dscf3869.jpg


5. The mysterious J1 connector on the backplane (see top of post for its future purpose):

dscf3893z.jpg


6. Backplane version number:

dscf3894.jpg


4 November 2010: Update regarding the Norco case fanboard and backplane

1)I've sent my fanboard to someone who can "convert" it to house 120 mm fans. Here are a few pictures (click them to enlarge):




2)Theoretically confirmed the Norco backplanes support staggered spin up. I will be testing this in a real setup once it is complete.

Relevant posts from page 2 in this topic (link to page 2):

1)How I measured:
Post 26

2) Pictures of what I measured (as described in post 26)
Post 27

3)Confirmation from treadstone
Post 28

Further interesting reads are posts 30 and 31

Q from treadstone: "You should check if they actually hooked up pin 11 of each connector to one of the LEDs next to each connector. It might actually be the LED on the opposite side of the board. Just check for continuity from pin 11 to all the pins of the LEDs next to the connector you are checking."

Answer: coming eventually
 
Last edited:
Step 3: Selecting a RAID - controller updates: STEP CONSIDERED COMPLETED Last updated: 5th May 2011

1)I went for an Areca-1680i instead of the LP version. Chances are that I'll buy a new controller well before I require an external port. Also Bluefox noticed it is fairly easy to convert an internal port to an external one using a bracket (or even more simple, just routing the cable through a hole to a 2nd case).
Since I'm using an Areca-controller, I can now make use of the HP-expander. Both the HP-expander and controller seem to be working fine (I do not have any drives to test it with - yet!)

2)I'm also no longer worried about the Hitachi drives being discontinued. Hitachi has released a revision of its 2 TB drive so I'm sure they will be around long enough for me to obtain enough.

3)This question still remains as purely theoretical as I have no intention nor means to get this kind of throughput over CAT5E gigabit ethernet:

Assume for a minute, every drive can supply 100 MiB/sec of data. This amounts to 2 GiB/sec (as there will be at most 20 drives). SAS 6 gigabit connected to the expander will supply 4 lanes thus yielding 24 gigabit. Substract the overhead and we get 19,2 gigabit/sec (= 2,4 GiB/sec). Am I right to assume there will be no bottleneck when using an expander because I have sufficient bandwidth. Or is there another type of overhead lurking?

Special thanks to Bluefox for providing me with my goodies!
 
Last edited:
Step 4: Selecting the other hardware: THIS STEP IS THE ONE I AM CURRENTLY WORKING ON Last updated: 18th June 2011

I've tested the HP-expander in a ASUS M4A78T-E motherboard. And it works in both x16 slots! I'm tempted to test it with an ASrock motherboard. I've assembled a system for a friend and if it works there, I'll make a wild guess it will work on every Asrock board with more or less the same chipset (I'm going with AMD, not Intel).

I've found some spare time and I've compiled a semi-definitive list of hardware.

Motherboard:

ASrock 880G extreme 3


Note the excellent spread of the 3 x16 slots.


Processor:

Athlon II X4 640. Middle of the road CPU.

Replaced by Athlon II X2 250e. The main purpose of the machine is holding a lot of data (file server). So I'm not going to try to make it fit other purposes that require a fast CPU.

Memory:

Any will do I suppose. Main thing is I'm going for 2 * 4 GiB in case I want to run some virtual OS's.

2 sticks of Dane-Elec 8GB (2*4GB) PC3-8500 DIMM KIT CL7 [these arrived DOA so they got replaced)
Mushkin Essentials - 8 GB : 2 x 4 GB - DIMM 240-pins - DDR3
CL7 ( 7-7-7-20)

OS-hard disk:

Seagate Momentus 7200 FDE.2 ST9500422AS - 500 GB - SATA-300

This is a FIPS 140-2 approved self-encrypting hard disk. I like crypto and privacy. That's all:).


PSU:

Silvestone 600W modular single 12v rail PSU



Other components include:
- A 40mm fan for the HP-expander

- Areca BBU, 2 mini-sas cables (BBU not bought yet).
- I'm using Scythe SFF21E S-flex fans and I'll be connecting them to the motherboard 3 pin fan headers for fan control

- Any slim DVD-RW (notice the adapter piece needed to connect regular SATA power cables)

- Depending on the PSU, some SATA to MOLEX converters (I think I need just one for the rear fans as I have enough cables to connect everything).

Unexpected hurdle (kind of):

Since I'm using a SED, I trialled Winmagic management software. Unfortunately, it does not allow to input a password remotely (I was hoping to do this over the LAN). So, I need a way to connect to my server before Windows has booted. Enter ATEN IP 8000
 
Last edited:
If you are tied to Windows and not looking at WHS and/or Vail, you should really - seriously - consider Server2008/R2. You won't have any learning curve to deal with but the extra capabilities will serve you well - especially Hyper-V and the file server roles.

As long as you aren't using it commercially, join TechNet and download. Personal use (non-evaluation) is technically a EULA problem, but as a home user MS pretty much openly ignores it.
 
Yes John, you are right. I got them mixed up in my mind:D.

I also forgot to mention I have to look into staggered spin up. That looks like a hughe hassle to get working.
 
Well, the case is in and has been examined lol. Next up is selecting the other hardware:

1. A motherboard and CPU. I'm going to get one with as many PCI express 16 slots as I can afford. As for a CPU I don't know yet. I'll probably get AMD as the price is right.

2. 2 x 2 GiB RAM.

3. OS HD? It has to be 2.5" right? Don't know whether I'll get an SSD. I like to wipe stuff and use Truecrypt:p.

4. I'm going with on board video. I can always upgrade later.

5. Any optical station will do. If I even need one.

That all I can think of for now. I'll be searching for good stuff the next few weeks.
 
Y'know the downside to those big cases is keeping the drives cool. Putting that many drives in the chassis means it'll need a LOT of airflow to keep them from overheating. Especially when you consider the added heat from the motherboard, graphics and RAID cards. Getting all that heat out of the case usually translates to a lot of noise. If not just fan noise, the hum of the airflow too.

I use a 're-purposed' old data silo drive chassis for my drives. Were I buying new again I'd still probably favor an external chassis for the drives because of the heat/noise issues.
 
I'll put then in a 'silenced' rack enclosure. They make these things now for home users. Plus I'll stuff it away in the garage. Hopefully, I can live with it. At night the drives will be spun down anyways.

The Norco has an optional 120 mm fan brack coming soon. And I'll also replace the rear fans. Hopefully I can find a good balance between heat and noise.
 
Hahahhahahha, silenced.... Oh, you kill me with that humor. You do realize that just means more fans on the enclosure to exhaust the heat, right?

I tried using an enclosed rack but they sure as hell make it a royal pain in the ass trying to service anything. That and it succeeded in having all the machines in the enclosed space get overheated together.

I'm very gung-ho about eliminating machine noise. All my gear is rackmounted in the next-door room because of this. I use 35' cables to bring the KVM out to the other room.

I went with a bare 72" 4-post wheeled rack. Each machine gets it's own cooling treatment as its needs require. Some of them run quite cool and need only a front 120mm and the power supply fan. Others run like a blacksmith's forge and require a lot more. My main fileserver also runs some hyper-v machines and it's a BEAST to keep cool. Getting the drives out of it was pretty much the only viable option.

As for spinning down the drives, good luck with that. Unless you actually put the machine to sleep it's a hassle to get the OS or RAID controller to leave the drives alone long enough to spin them down.
 
I might get one of these http://www.kellsystems.co.uk/ . Just wondering whether the steep price will be worth it.

I'm quite good at getting stuff quiet. Although I have 0,0 experience with a large array of drives.
And yes, when I go to bed, the server will too lol. Come, who doesn't like a challenge:p
 
I have 12 drives now in my norco and my drives are in the 40s with a 120mm backplane installed and yateloons

Mine is a 4020
 
Jeroen1000 said:
I might get one of these http://www.kellsystems.co.uk/ . Just wondering whether the steep price will be worth it.
Click to expand...
Why not get the original APC ones instead of the rebranded ones? They are incredibly expensive if you haven't looked it up. The 18U is ~$4k, the 24U is ~$5k, and the 38U is ~$7k. Going to be even worse after the exchange rate, VAT, and shipping.
 
@Joroen1000: Incredibly interested in how you go, not sure if you show my original post; http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1546329 - am I the same boat as you (sub in a Norco 4224).

I choose to go Winblows with FlexRAID (passed up H/W RAID due to higher costs and some other features that FlexRAID provided suited me perfectly - not saying that it will also suit you.)

However, I'm stuck in the H/W department as well. Decided to move away from trying to use my Fileserver as a HTPC as well, but that hasn't brought the costs down as much as I like, I was left with two options:

Option 1:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1055T(2.8GHz) - AM3, 9MB Cache,125W - AUD $220
MB: Asus M4A89GTD-Pro USB3 AM3 890GX 4DDR3 2PCIE RAID VGA GLAN 2FW ATX HDMI - AUD $195
RAM: Kingston KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G ValueRAM (ECC Un-Buffered) - AUD $135
PSU: Corsair HX-850 ATX Power Supply w 140mm Modular Cables - AUD $222
Controller: SuperMicro AOC-USAS2-L8e - Included with HP SAS Price below
Misc: HP SAS Expander - AUD $650
Case: Norco 4224 - AUD $459

Total: AUD $1880

Option 2:

CPU: Intel Xeon E5620 Westmere 2.4GHz 12MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 80W Quad-Core Server Processor - AUD $400
MB: SuperMicro X8STi-3F - AUD $345
RAM: Kingston KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G ValueRAM (ECC Un-Buffered) - AUD $135
PSU: Corsair HX-850 ATX Power Supply w 140mm Modular Cables - AUD $222
Controller: LSI 1068E 8-Port SAS Controller Onboard
Misc: HP SAS Expander - AUD $375
Case: Norco 4224 - AUD $459

Total: AUD $1930

Then I was suggested that they were just TOO power hungry/expensive for a Home Fileserver and I should look at possible Atom/i3 equivalents but have not been able to find any appropriate Motherboards that support enough PCI-E slots for my HBA and SAS Controller.

We should develop our own for this niche :p
 
Supermicro makes a flex-ATX Atom 330 board (X7SLA-H) with 2 x PCIe x8 slots.
 
Jeroen1000 said:
The Norco has an optional 120 mm fan brack coming soon. And I'll also replace the rear fans. Hopefully I can find a good balance between heat and noise.
Click to expand...

Sorry to have to say this but the 120mm fanboard is only for the newer designed 4220 and 4224's. The one you have requires the older one and I think may not fit in your one. You need those custom fanboards from cavediver.
 
Blue Fox said:
Supermicro makes a flex-ATX Atom 330 board (X7SLA-H) with 2 x PCIe x8 slots.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Blue Fox, unfortunately thats based on the older Atom 330, and I'm concerned that the Atom itself will be too lackluster in performance in regards to parity re-building with FlexRAID/general purpose - anyone have feedback on this.

Looking more towards a possible i5 setup, but then again no ECC...
 
@d00dzI have a Norco 4220. The fan-board is listed to be compatible on their website? Hmm the picture does look different, are you saying I have an older revision:eek:. The seller could've told me this as I enquired about the board:mad:

@Bluefox. I did not know it was rebranded. I can travel to the UK (did it before) so that isn't a major deal. Shipping something from the US this large is another thing.

@Venomous. Since you are using software RAID I'm not confident how well far you should go in the hardware department. You could save some by buying a X3 CPU and unlocking it (that is IF you are lucky you can unlock it) or buy a 4-core and overclock it a bit. Don't see how you'd need a 6-core. I fee your pain, these things are expensive.
 
Last edited:
@Jeroen1000: Just curious as you are/were really interested in the whole staggered spin-up, did you by any chance have a closer look at those Norco backplanes to see what they did with the pin 11 of each power connector (the power section of the drive connector)?

Do the Norco backplanes support the pin 11 staggered spin-up?
 
Yes Treadstone, I want it to work as it will be a decisive factor in buying my PSU.

How would one test/see this with no drives? Apply power to the backplane and use a multimeter on pin 11? If you can tell me how, I'll gladly test.
Don't get your hopes up though, I see no reason for them to support it as it will leave people with ??? around their heads why o why those drives do not spin up.

There is a suspicious J1 connector (see pics) but that doesn't look a jumper for staggered spin up:)


ps: I emailed Norco about it but no reply yet.
 
Last edited:
You don't need to plug any drives into the backplane. Just have a look at what they did with the pin 11 pf the power connector section of each drive connector.

You can find the pinout for the SATA power connector HERE

If you happen to have a multimeter handy it may make it easier for you to figure this out otherwise, just have a look if pin 11 is connected to any circuitry on the board or if it is directly connected to GROUND. If it is directly connected to GROUND, then pins 10, 11 and 12 should all be connected together (as in you would measure a low impedance or short between those pins with your multimeter). You can also have a look at the pins that are soldered onto the PCB and see if those pins are all soldered together to the same copper trace (or not, whatever the case may be). If possible, post a close up picture of the soldered pins of one of the drive connectors here so that I can have a look.

As for the J1 connector, I might be able to tell you what it's for if I could see more pictures of the entire PCB so that I can see where the traces of that connector are connected to!
 
I think I got it. You wouldn't happen to have MSN or other means to aid easier explanation?
 
I'll try my best then.

1. I plugged a molex into the backplane with the other end just wire so I could attach 1 lead from the multimeter to 1 of the 4 molex wires *

2. Then one end of the meter got attached to the YELLOW molex wire.
This way I could discover pins 13,14,15 on the power connector. Is this a correct way of determining these pins?

3. Then I moved the meter attached to the YELLOW wire to one of the BLACK wires
Pins 10 and 12 were grounded, 11 was not = staggered spin up supported!?

4. Due to dumbassness on my part, I had first connected the meter to the RED wire.
When I got to pin 5, the green LED on the backplane lit up. Is it supposed to do that?


The molex I plugged in the molex on the backplane was a male to female extender with the female connector removed. Normally a PSU molex would plug into the missing connector piece. This way it was much easier to attach the multimeter for measurement:

Thumbnail:
Larger picture: click the above picture.

edit: Oh yeah, I hope it does not matter which black wire I used?
edit2: regarding the J1 connector, reply from Norco themselves: "It is kept for future LED setting function. Right now it is not ready."
 
Last edited:
More pictures regarding my testing (click them for higher res):

Backplane overview so you can see its orientation:



Pin lay-out discovered after examining them using the method described in my previous post:



Other side of the connector for Threadstone :):



Additional info:

1. I put the multimeter on pins 10 and 12 of the SATA power connector on the backplane. The multimeter beeped continuously so these pins were connected together.
2. When I measured pin 10 and 11: no beep. Same for pin 12 and 11: no beep.
 
I like your background picture :)

It doesn't matter which one of the black wires of the 4 pin molex power connector you use since they are both tied together on the backplane as well as in the power supply.

If you look closely at the back of the drive connector (e.g. HDD4 in your last picture above), you can see that pin 11 is not connected to pins 10 and 12. You can also see that a trace is coming out from underneath the connector going towards the LED on the left hand side. The LED to the left of the connector is a dual color LED (Red and Blue). I assume that blue is for power and red is to indicate a fault with the associated drive (at least that's the way my Chenbro backplanes are although the Chenbro backplanes do look more professional and use surface mount LEDs...). What you could test for is if pin 11 actually goes to the green LED on the other side of the board. If that's the case, then they use pin 11 as the drive activity LED (output from the drive).

Also, you mentioned that one of the LEDs turned on when you used your multimeter, that is normal and nothing to worry about. Every multimeter uses a small current to do the resistance/continuity measurement. The current should only be a few mA at best. As long as you keep the current flowing through an LED to less than 20mA you are fine.

Would you mind posting a few more close up pictures of the entire board from both sides?
 
I'll make some more close ups after dinner.I'll post several for each side (I'm using macro mode so I can't fit the entire backplane in one picture).

At any rate, since pin 11 is not grounded (thus high or floating in this case), the drive's motor/spindle will not spin up on applying power?

you said:

If that's the case, then they use pin 11 as the drive activity LED (output from the drive).
Click to expand...

If pin 11 is used as the drive activity led, does that mean pin 11 can not be used for staggered spin up any longer? Or can pin 11 serve both purposes?
 
Picture time:

The 'full' pictures are at very high res as I did not resize them. I want to be sure you can get an exellent look.





---



 
Thanks for the pictures.

U3, U4, U5 and U6 are 3.3V LDO's in SOT-89 packages. These are used to generate the 3.3V needed by the drives and since the 4pin Molex power connector does not have a 3.3V connection, they need to drop the 5V down to 3.3V. There is also a spot for U8 and my guess it's intended for another 3.3V LDO for U7. U7 appears to be the place a controller chip would go that handles the SGPIO (SES2) connection from the SFF8087 cable for backplane management purposes. So at least these new backplane PCBs from Norco do seem to have the ability to support SES but unfortunately they did not populate the parts.

Also, the pin 11 can be used as a dual purpose pin.
As an input signal during initial power up, the drives controller would look at the signal on pin 11 to check if it's high (or floating) or low. If it is high, it would not spin the Drive up until instructed via commands from the HBA. After the initialization phase and once the drive is up and running, the pin can be used as an output to control an external LED. The drives controller would pull the signal down to indicate drive activity. This would be accomplished via an open collector or open drain output on the drives controller side. On the backplane, if a controller would be present to do staggered spin-up control (hardware based), this controller would have the same type of open collector or open drain buffer to pull the pin 11 low. Since the drive activity LED is also hooked up to this pin, if the backplanes controller would pull this pin low to spin-up the drives motor, the activity LED would also be lit for the duration that the controller pulls this signal low.

You should check if they actually hooked up pin 11 of each connector to one of the LEDs next to each connector. It might actually be the LED on the opposite side of the board. Just check for continuity from pin 11 to all the pins of the LEDs next to the connector you are checking.
 
It doesn't... I'm just curious :)

Have a nice weekend... Won't be back until Monday possibly Tuesday...
 
Thank you. Have a nice week end as well. I can't argue this hasn't been educational for me:)
 
Norco alluded it might be possible, but not as to how extensive the mod will need to be.

I have several options lol:
- I can ask the retailer from which I got the case (if it's a small mod that would most likely be most cost effective)

- I can screw a new metal plate in front of the existing "fan-array' and redrill holes and an opening for larger fans (I know someone who is quite skilled in this stuff)

- I may be able to take on off you, don't know whether you are selling or not?:)
 
Alright, I've made some progress so I updated my reserved posts.

Biggest problems I'm facing now is: do I need a BBU-unit, and how big a PSU should I get? Keep in mind, I'm keen on getting staggered spin up to work properly :)
 
BBU lets you enable write caching (to the 512mb present on your card) without fear of data loss. Not really necessary, but neat to have. As for the power supply, you really don't need anything big. Instead of going with staggered spinup, I just got something with a single 12v rail. I have a 610w PC P&C power supply running my file server and only about half of it is being utilized. I'm not sure what is cheap over in Europe, but you really shouldn't need too much. Corsair 600CX or Cooler Master M600 are decent examples...well, at least reasonably priced on newegg.
 
Updated step 4 "other hardware".

Just pondering over the OS hard drive and a mini-sas cable. They all seem to cost $50 and more over here where I live. I hope I can find something around $30 (or less :D)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top