My New SSD drive from BHPhoto appears to have been used before?

Barometer

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
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150
Hello,
I just (today) received what was purchased as a NEW Crucial MX500 SSD drive from BHPhoto.
Upon close inspection, there are about a dozen marks on the glossy logo that I don't think should be there on a new item.

They are very tiny squares that look to me as if the drive has had something very small and square against it for considerable time as the wear appears to be from vibration (probably not from this drive, but something else in a computer?) Like maybe it was mounted near a CD rom drive or regular spinning hard drive and these tiny marks were worn into it by vibrations.

I felt I might be being too picky and had my wife look at it. Immediately she said she saw it and it appeared used to her as well.

So now I'm deciding whether to send the drive back or keep it. Obviously, I do not want to keep a used product that I paid full price for as "New". No telling how much time is on it.....or is there?

So that's my question for today. Is there a way to definitively determine how "Used" this drive might be?

I downloaded and installed SpeeFan452 and ran it but it really didn't tell me much.

So, is there software I can use to get data from the drive that will help me decide to keep it or send it back based on SMART or other internally recorded usage data?

Thanks.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
150
Here is the CrystalDiskInfo. I think it says it's a new drive ?? Then why the abrasions on the front?
Demo or test model, reset by the factory to appear new?

D8bDZLb.jpg
 

Maxx

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
1,559
You can also use the program Hard Disk Sentinel. It looks pretty new to me, you can use the serial to check in with Crucial to find date of manufacture (if it's not on the drive) and other information but the 5-year warranty should be intact. You don't really see "reset" SMART values, it would hardly be worth their time.
 

mda

[H]ard|Gawd
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I think SMART and maybe Crucial's own toolbox should show something like TBs written and a power on hours count as well.
 

viper_0307

Limp Gawd
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If it's cosmetics, it is likely going to be inside a box; I wouldn't worry.

Your Power On Hour and Count seem to indicate new. Go download Crucial Storage Executive Tool.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
Joined
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150
Well DAMN !!
About an hour after installing this new SSD.....now my computer is dead as a door nail ! WTF???

Tore the computer down, took out the PS and tested it......AOK.
Seems to be the main board at this point.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
Joined
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150
Tried and tried and tried for the last 2 days to revive my system but I had to give up today.

Tried EVERYTHING I could think of. Every trick by the best techs I could Google. Installed a different CPU, Different (new) PSU, Different RAM, Removed from case and tried again. Switched fans. Reset BIOS. New CMOS battery, Dipped in alcohol bath. Electroshock therapy.

I have no idea how, but somehow the SSD drive seems to have bricked my Motherboard.

The one I received had odd square wear marks on the label, as if it had sat against something for some time. Probably returned by another customer then sold to me.

So after searching for two days, I just bought a new MB. An Asus ROG Strik X470-F $209 after tax and shipping.

Beware of supposedly brand new SSD drives if they have ANY signs of previous use. This one was a Crucial MX500. I will never again install such hardware if I have any suspicion it was previously used. Could be the reason it was returned.
BHPhoto is RMAing it. But I'm still out one formerly great ASRock AB350M with only two years on it.
 

x509

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,931
Tried and tried and tried for the last 2 days to revive my system but I had to give up today.

Tried EVERYTHING I could think of. Every trick by the best techs I could Google. Installed a different CPU, Different (new) PSU, Different RAM, Removed from case and tried again. Switched fans. Reset BIOS. New CMOS battery, Dipped in alcohol bath. Electroshock therapy.

I have no idea how, but somehow the SSD drive seems to have bricked my Motherboard.

The one I received had odd square wear marks on the label, as if it had sat against something for some time. Probably returned by another customer then sold to me.

So after searching for two days, I just bought a new MB. An Asus ROG Strik X470-F $209 after tax and shipping.

Beware of supposedly brand new SSD drives if they have ANY signs of previous use. This one was a Crucial MX500. I will never again install such hardware if I have any suspicion it was previously used. Could be the reason it was returned.
BHPhoto is RMAing it. But I'm still out one formerly great ASRock AB350M with only two years on it.
Last year I bought a new Lenovo laptop off Amazon for my wife. Only when it powered up, there was a user account already installed instead of the typical startup experience for a fresh Windows installer. Reseller did take back the laptop plus gave me $25 to cover my hassles. I ended up going to Best Buy, so if there was a problem, I could go right back to the store. No issues, and it's still working fine.
 

Furious_Styles

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
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Tried and tried and tried for the last 2 days to revive my system but I had to give up today.

Tried EVERYTHING I could think of. Every trick by the best techs I could Google. Installed a different CPU, Different (new) PSU, Different RAM, Removed from case and tried again. Switched fans. Reset BIOS. New CMOS battery, Dipped in alcohol bath. Electroshock therapy.

I have no idea how, but somehow the SSD drive seems to have bricked my Motherboard.

The one I received had odd square wear marks on the label, as if it had sat against something for some time. Probably returned by another customer then sold to me.

So after searching for two days, I just bought a new MB. An Asus ROG Strik X470-F $209 after tax and shipping.

Beware of supposedly brand new SSD drives if they have ANY signs of previous use. This one was a Crucial MX500. I will never again install such hardware if I have any suspicion it was previously used. Could be the reason it was returned.
BHPhoto is RMAing it. But I'm still out one formerly great ASRock AB350M with only two years on it.
It's highly unlikely a SSD drive has the capability to brick your mobo without some kind of obvious power failure. Hell, I've accidentally used a power cord from another psu and fried a cable and nuked an HDD and the mobo was unaffected.
 

Morlock

Limp Gawd
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477
Public Service Announcement, don't buy anything from these photo/camera stores in Brooklyn. They're all shady. B&H is in Manhattan, but they're cut from the same cloth.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
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Messages
150
It's highly unlikely a SSD drive has the capability to brick your mobo without some kind of obvious power failure. Hell, I've accidentally used a power cord from another psu and fried a cable and nuked an HDD and the mobo was unaffected.
Maybe. But the fact remains that the SSD was the only variable that changed. And the computer was behind an APC Battery backup so a power surge being the issue is unlikely.

I can accept your theory, if I also accept the HUGE coincidence that it failed within minutes of installing the SSD and had been going for at least 2 years with ZERO issues before that.

But yeah, shit happens they say. If it happens to anyone else I hope they post up about it.

It would be interesting to discuss this with an Electrical Engineer to see if there is ANY way this is possible (a SSD induced Motherboard failure). I say anything's possible, Albeit rare and unlikely.

As a footnote.....the PSU from that now dead system is installed and working normally in another computer.
 
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Barometer

Limp Gawd
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Public Service Announcement, don't buy anything from these photo/camera stores in Brooklyn. They're all shady. B&H is in Manhattan, but they're cut from the same cloth.
So who would you recommend? NewEgg is China. Aren't they all just pretty much product pushers? Any of them that have a 30 day free returns policy is probably as good as any other.
BHPhoto told me they "Never" re-sell a returned electronic component like a computer motherboard or SSD. They say they are ALL sent back to the manufacturer.

Now, there's little to stop shady manufacturers from "re-certifying", re-packaging and then re-selling a returned device. So if anyone's at fault here other than me it might be Crucial?
 

Furious_Styles

[H]ard|Gawd
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Maybe. But the fact remains that the SSD was the only variable that changed. And the computer was behind an APC Battery backup so a power surge being the issue is unlikely.

I can accept your theory, if I also accept the HUGE coincidence that it failed within minutes of installing the SSD and had been going for at least 2 years with ZERO issues before that.

But yeah, shit happens they say. If it happens to anyone else I hope they post up about it.

It would be interesting to discuss this with an Electrical Engineer to see if there is ANY way this is possible (a SSD induced Motherboard failure). I say anything's possible, Albeit rare and unlikely.

As a footnote.....the PSU from that now dead system is installed and working normally in another computer.
Could be you shocked it accidentally when you were installing it. Most people don't have a clue how to diagnose a problem and just starting throwing shit at it in all different orders and hope they figure it out. And I'll add that it can be extremely difficult to pin down the ultimate problem sometimes.

I'm also not saying it's 100% your fault either, weird things do happen.
 

NIZMOZ

[H]ard|Gawd
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The SSD will not cause your system to go dead like that. Most likely you did something inadvertently and killed it. Static can kill components. Did you unplug the computer, did you ground yourself on metal before touching it? Many things can factor in here and the SSD is not one of them.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
Joined
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The SSD will not cause your system to go dead like that. Most likely you did something inadvertently and killed it. Static can kill components. Did you unplug the computer, did you ground yourself on metal before touching it? Many things can factor in here and the SSD is not one of them.
Glad you said "most likely" ;-)
 

x509

[H]ard|Gawd
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Public Service Announcement, don't buy anything from these photo/camera stores in Brooklyn. They're all shady. B&H is in Manhattan, but they're cut from the same cloth.
Au contraire. I have been dealing with B&H for years. Excellent prices. Excellent customer service, including returns. I've actually been in that store, and it's the only place I know where the sales guy will say, "Save your money, you don't need that $$$ thing." The Brooklyn places, I can't comment on them.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
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do you have a picture of the inside of the SSD both side of the board (not that hard to take apart) and the labe it self , only way to really tell is to directly look at the SSD board inside it
No, the SSD was within the return period so I returned it.

I bought another SSD from BHPhoto a few days after the 1st one. The 2nd one was a 1000MB drive It is working properly and has not caused any harm to the computer it is installed in.
 

notarat

2[H]4U
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Mar 28, 2010
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Maybe. But the fact remains that the SSD was the only variable that changed. And the computer was behind an APC Battery backup so a power surge being the issue is unlikely.

I can accept your theory, if I also accept the HUGE coincidence that it failed within minutes of installing the SSD and had been going for at least 2 years with ZERO issues before that.

But yeah, shit happens they say. If it happens to anyone else I hope they post up about it.

It would be interesting to discuss this with an Electrical Engineer to see if there is ANY way this is possible (a SSD induced Motherboard failure). I say anything's possible, Albeit rare and unlikely.

As a footnote.....the PSU from that now dead system is installed and working normally in another computer.
Not to beat a dead horse but the SSD wasn't the only variable that changed. It was the only equipment changed/added.

Variables in this instance would be at least the following:

Change in wiring locations/bends (as you move wires around to make connections)
Load on PSU rail for SATA devices
Total load on PSU
ESD (electro Static Discharge) chances
Inadvertent bumps to other components
PSU power/off cycles

just to name some off the top of my head...

Thing is, there are tons of variables that change each time you add/change/remove stuff from a build. Especially when modifying one that's been static (unchanged) in 2+yrs.


Perfect case in point is one I experienced only yesterday with my build.

Scenario:

You insert a Peripheral power cable into a modular power supply to supply power to your water pump. You specifically feel and listen for, and feel and hear, the "click" as it locks into place.
You then move some other wiring around on the back-side of the motherboard for cable management to add a fan controller and add it.
Then, you power up the system only to see your water pump is not powering on...

In my case, moving the wiring around for cable management popped out the peripheral power cable just enough to not make contact,but it looked as if it were still plugged in...

In 30+ years of building computers I have never seen/heard of/or experienced that...ever...but it did, for the first time ever, yesterday. I could have blamed the Fan Controller but it was not at fault.
 

Mthr1

[H]Lite
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Dec 16, 2007
Messages
107
So who would you recommend? NewEgg is China. Aren't they all just pretty much product pushers? Any of them that have a 30 day free returns policy is probably as good as any other.
BHPhoto told me they "Never" re-sell a returned electronic component like a computer motherboard or SSD. They say they are ALL sent back to the manufacturer.

Now, there's little to stop shady manufacturers from "re-certifying", re-packaging and then re-selling a returned device. So if anyone's at fault here other than me it might be Crucial?
For what it's worth, I have ordered (off and on) from BH Photo for several years. I have not had a personal experience that would lead me to consider BG a "shady" vendor or anything resembling some of the overseas grey market vendors. BH does sell open box and "used" components in varying conditions (as listed on each posting). Perhaps they may have mixed up some inventory. I have had isolated, random issues for many of the top tier online vendors (Amazon, Newegg, Tiger, etc....) Isolated issues are to be expected with any vendor.

Regarding your recent issue with the SSD, you may want to visually check the integrity of the SATA and power contacts of the SSD. I have heard rare issues where there was damage to the metal contacts within the connections (even in the cables) on the drive that ends up grounding out and creating a voltage fluctuation, causing mobo failure or function issues.
 

dvsman

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Not picking on BH in particular, but keep in mind that these stores are run by normal folks. There are some good and some bad. Despite "store policy" a rogue employee certainly could have swapped out a used XYZ for a new one (which they took for themselves), especially if they are the same schlub that also packs and ships orders out with no one else supervising.

I've used BH and Adorama and a bunch of "little known" shops (mostly for camera gear) and they've all had their ups and downs. Nothing major, like bad stuff in the box, but more like slow shipping or incomplete orders / bad communication. Some stuff was out of stock and to be shipped later, but they didn't tell me, kind of situations.
 

Mthr1

[H]Lite
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Messages
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These are isolated trends that can happen anywhere. The more relevant thing is how the vendor reacts and resolved the problem.

Amazon is a good example. Great vendor but not immune to issues. I've had poor packing, damaged contents, and product failures. They never failed to resolve issue that didn't end up in my favor.

BH (since this is the vendor focused on in this thread) have never given me an issue with a return or replacement for a merchandise issue. They even cover return shipping and in some cases replace without needing a return.

Like the previous poster mentioned, the stuff goes through a number of hands sometimes before it ends up to the end user. Hard to control everything within that flow chart of movement.
 

Dead Parrot

2[H]4U
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Mar 4, 2013
Messages
2,709
Might contact Crucial and ask for a warranty status on the SSD. They should be able to tell you if it has been through their RMA process. Might not help if it was a B&H sell, RMA back to B&H, and resell.

Depending on how firmly it was packed in the OEM box, could be it simply had a rough ride + a little wriggle room.

While there are many things that could have killed the MB, like the OP, I tend to suspect the last thing changed as the most likely culprit.

Any chance a random screw wandered onto the MB during installation? Might give it a really good blow with air in case something managed to short out something on the MB during the installation process.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
150
Not to beat a dead horse but the SSD wasn't the only variable that changed. It was the only equipment changed/added.

Variables in this instance would be at least the following:

Change in wiring locations/bends (as you move wires around to make connections)
Load on PSU rail for SATA devices
Total load on PSU
ESD (electro Static Discharge) chances
Inadvertent bumps to other components
PSU power/off cycles

just to name some off the top of my head...

Thing is, there are tons of variables that change each time you add/change/remove stuff from a build. Especially when modifying one that's been static (unchanged) in 2+yrs.


Perfect case in point is one I experienced only yesterday with my build.

Scenario:

You insert a Peripheral power cable into a modular power supply to supply power to your water pump. You specifically feel and listen for, and feel and hear, the "click" as it locks into place.
You then move some other wiring around on the back-side of the motherboard for cable management to add a fan controller and add it.
Then, you power up the system only to see your water pump is not powering on...

In my case, moving the wiring around for cable management popped out the peripheral power cable just enough to not make contact,but it looked as if it were still plugged in...

In 30+ years of building computers I have never seen/heard of/or experienced that...ever...but it did, for the first time ever, yesterday. I could have blamed the Fan Controller but it was not at fault.

HUGE difference in what you did and what happened in my case........

In your case, you obviously did something wrong. Totally your fault.

In the situation I explained, the drive worked properly for a short time, then UNATTENDED, I came back and the system was dead. We can guess for years as to possibilities. But we should stick with probabilities here imo.

But yes, 1,000,000 different factors can be analyzed, but focusing on the most obvious first is probably a good start. Since the drive worked momentarily, it's reasonable to assume it was connected properly.
There was no indication of ANY anomaly afterwards such as an errant electrical contact or disconnected connector.

But like I said, I have no proof it was the drive...only circumstantial evidence.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
150
Might contact Crucial and ask for a warranty status on the SSD. They should be able to tell you if it has been through their RMA process. Might not help if it was a B&H sell, RMA back to B&H, and resell.

Depending on how firmly it was packed in the OEM box, could be it simply had a rough ride + a little wriggle room.

While there are many things that could have killed the MB, like the OP, I tend to suspect the last thing changed as the most likely culprit.

Any chance a random screw wandered onto the MB during installation? Might give it a really good blow with air in case something managed to short out something on the MB during the installation process.
The drive was returned to BHPhoto for refund. As mentioned earlier, after a careful examination, nothing in the packaging could have caused such marks.

Random wandering screws in the case? No, no chance ;-)
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
150
Lot's of intuitive suggestions here. None yet have convinced me it wasn't the drive itself.

All comments appreciated and considered.

At the end of the day, it remains possible that an electrical internal fault "could" cause such an event. Doubtful (and rare) as it may be.

However, proving it is beyond the scope of this thread.

If anyone else ever experiences a similar event I sure would like to hear of it.
 

luisxd

[H]Lite
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The unit might have been used for testing and they just reflashed it to 0 miles when it was done.

A few years ago I bought some Corsair Force ssd drives from ebay and after using them for a while they died and took my sata ports with them. Turns out the the guy who sold them to me opened them for some reason and lost the screws and used others that were longer and were making contact with the PCB. This actually took me years to figure out since it's not very common but when I opened them I noticed there were burn marks where the screw was making contact with the PCB.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
150
The unit might have been used for testing and they just reflashed it to 0 miles when it was done.

A few years ago I bought some Corsair Force ssd drives from ebay and after using them for a while they died and took my sata ports with them. Turns out the the guy who sold them to me opened them for some reason and lost the screws and used others that were longer and were making contact with the PCB. This actually took me years to figure out since it's not very common but when I opened them I noticed there were burn marks where the screw was making contact with the PCB.
THANK YOU ! Best Answer yet !

Shit really does happen.
 

pbassjunk

Limp Gawd
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Sep 17, 2012
Messages
440
B&H is legit. I've been there many times. Fantastic service, great people. It's where the NYC film industry shops. Doesn't get much more Pro than that.
 

Mthr1

[H]Lite
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Messages
107
The unit might have been used for testing and they just reflashed it to 0 miles when it was done.

A few years ago I bought some Corsair Force ssd drives from ebay and after using them for a while they died and took my sata ports with them. Turns out the the guy who sold them to me opened them for some reason and lost the screws and used others that were longer and were making contact with the PCB. This actually took me years to figure out since it's not very common but when I opened them I noticed there were burn marks where the screw was making contact with the PCB.
I'
B&H is legit. I've been there many times. Fantastic service, great people. It's where the NYC film industry shops. Doesn't get much more Pro than that.

BH has an impressive paper catalog also.
 

Barometer

Limp Gawd
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Yeah, I think whatever happened here was not BH's fault.

I would guess Crucial shipped them this drive and they sold it just like any other drive.

But one other person in this thread had a potential answer......someone in their fulfillment center or shipping warehouse swapped their messed up drive for my new one.
It's the only other thing that seems likely. But that theory has a flaw because the SMART information on the drive suggested it was in fact new....or had been reset. Who could reset SMART info?

Just to emphasize.....the drive had numerous marks on it as if it had been layting on something about 5mm square, and then subjected to vibration for a considerable time. Nothing in the shipping box could have done it. I would have taken photos but I had to use a magnifier to see them and the only reason I saw them at all was because there were about a dozen of them. I was going to ignore the marks but when I asked my computer illiterate wife if she saw the marks she did and said SHE would not accept something like that as new. THAT did it for me.

It's rare....but something out of the ordinary occurred THIS ONE TIME.

And I maintain it cost me a nice fairly new ASRock AB350M motherboard and possibly an AMD CPU.

Also I mentioned I bought two Crucial SSD drives from BH at nearly the same time. The larger 1 TB drive has been fine. It had no marks on it.
 
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Barometer

Limp Gawd
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Let's hope you don't draw the short straw again next time.
It was just my time on that one item. Stuff happens.
The ROG Strix X470-F Motherboard, Ryzen CPU, G.Skill RAM and the the larger MX500 SSD all worked out fine.
 

Mthr1

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Speaking of Crucial MX500, I've used a couple MX500s myself in the last two years. I just got my first M2 drive last week and it was a MX500. I probably should have spent a little extra and gotten a NVMe version instead but $52 for a 500gb M2 sata was a good deal.

They're very nice. Very fast. I like how much more cleaner it makes the build look also. Hindsight, there was a $69 Samsung 970 Evo 500gb NVMe on sale couple weeks ago that I would have rather have gotten.
 

Maxx

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
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Who could reset SMART info?
It's definitely possible to "hack" a SSD but it's not typically something done in the West. In Asia it's usually done to get to (encrypted) data rather than reset SMART. There's also something known as a MPTool (mass production tool) which lets you configure the controller of a drive. The reason such things are not typical is manifold: first, you usually need (relatively) expensive hardware for JTAG. Second, you need specialized software which not only has to match the controller but the specific NAND/flash and firmware revision. Third, there's usually a backup chip so that manufacturers receiving or tracing drives can tell it's been modified. So to put it another way: you're not going to have someone going to the trouble of resetting a drive just to sell it off to a brick and mortar like B&H.

I can't speculate on what happened in your case. There are anomalies. Without photos of inside and out, and possibly even physical access to the drive, I can't determine the source. Your SMART data was clear and correct. It's possible the internal components shorted out against the drive's case or something; they do test the drive first but it'd be unusual to just ignore the resulting marks unless quality control missed it.
 
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