Well, i posted this during the down time so its all dondensed up
For some time Ive wanted to get into phase change cooling and Ive started to take the plunge and Im getting my tools together, this thread is a journal of sorts that I plan to update with my learning curve and progress in building, I will also use it to ask questions etc etc
If I list any prices they will be in $USD
The first thing I needed being a total newbie was the basics. I went to refrigeration basics and started with the free samples section given I have a very limited background in physics I skipped the intro and went straight to http://www.refrigerationbasics.com/1024x768/rb2.htm
This proved to be most helpful in the basics, which is all I really needed. At this point in time its not worth being over confused with cascades or HX Exchangers, Start small, Start basic.
I decided my first project would be cheap in components so I wouldnt waste money should I break it. A common place for people to start if with a old fridge, so I got one. It was working and the freezer section would frost in 20min so I just cut suction and discharge with a pair of garden scissors, Its all I had at the time and did the job well.
NOTE: Discharging to the atmosphere is illegal is a lot of countries and some gases may be toxic, I had access to a respirator at the time and cut the pipes outside on a windy day.
The next step was to pull the compressor out as well as the wiring that goes with it, to this point I still dont know how to power the thing yet as Im still learning about compressor start-up and running coils + caps
To recap,
At this point I have limited knowledge of refrigeration
No tools
1 used unknown specs compressor with electrical bits
Some Copper piping
At this point it was clear before I moved along I needed tools so I started to save to buy them. Condensers, evaporators etc werent much use right now so I put the hunt for parts on the back burner, yet as it turns out I ended up with my condenser being given to me from a old AC unit long before I got any tools
I needed to make a list of the tools I would need, after looking on forums and thinking about it this is the list I came up with
Hot Gear
Firebricks
Torch of some sort
Brazing rods
Flux
Mild acid
Dry nitrogen
Welding Clothes and goggles
Pipe Tools
Flaring kit
Swaging tool
Pipe benders
Pipe Cutters
Other tools
Vacuum pump
Charging gauges
Vacuum gauges
From that list I set out to price up the tools and also had to decide on the type of torch I would use
Hot Gear
Firebricks $5 each
Welding/Cutting/Brazing Kit $150
Oxygen/Acetylene Tanks + Gas $80
Pro Silver 15 Brazing Rods $1/each
No Flux Needed
Dilute H2So4 Acid $19.95
Dry Nitrogen Tank + Gas + Regulator $80
Shade 5 goggles + 2 sets of lenses $19.99
Welding gloves $10.99
Welding apron $40
Pipe Tools
Flaring kit $50
Swaging tool $10
Pipe Springs for 1/4 to 5/8 $40
Pipe cutters (normal + mini) $60
Other tools
2hp Air Compressor with threaded intake to use as vacuum $100
R410a Manifold with 60 2000psia Hoses $130
Vacuum Gauge $40
All up thats $855 WOW!
Now you make ask why I dont just spend say $200 and get the parts together and ship them off to of an AirCon place to get assembled. Thats a good point and I thought about it long and hard but in the end I decided it would be best to learn this all myself and I would be able to make a few units and sell them cheap to the people around my region (Wellington, New Zealand) to recover the costs. Thankfully I dont have a wife or house to pay off yet and it will only take a month to get the cash together.
Right now as I save up Im reading up as much as I can and welding/braze/cut pip as much as I can in order to get my skills and knowledge up to the level required.
At this very point in time Im working with a program called CoolPack (http://www.et.dtu.dk/Coolpack/UK/) and the wide range of P/T charts I have converted from PDF to XLS and HTML formats to compose my system design and look into fail-safe
As luck would have it during a brain picking chat with a HVAC engineer on the phone I was offered and have picked up 3 bottles of supposed R406a, R407c and R410a which when I get my gauges I will control the temperature to 15°c and measure the pressure to confirm correct gas and purity. These bottles which are 50-70% full would have cost over $900 to buy full here and Im lucky to have scored them
Thats all I can think of for now, no doubt more questions will arise and I will get more gear together
Ok, time for another update.
I went to BOC gases today and had a meeting with their account manager and walked through what i would need blah blah blah and after 2 hours of really good talking and business advice i walked out with a tank each of oxygen,acetylene and dry nitrogen along with some welding filer and welding goggles.
Next stop with the local hardware shop to find a air compressor, The air compressors were plentiful but air compressors with intake ports weren't, i had to drive by about 4 shops to find one but i did, 2 hp with a 25L tank.
After all of this my wallet had gone from 5y.o kid at ironclads to a catwalk model, I only had enough cash left to buy the welding kit from a local auction site. I got all the gear home and tested it out, sure enough every worked except for a acetylene regulator, which on its output valve had developed a leak. I haven't gotten around to fixing it yet, I'm sure all it needs is some thread tape
I've been given a total of 4 tanks of refrigerant by now and i came to the task of choosing which one to use. I had r406a, r407c and r410a. The 406a was ¾ full, the r407c was ¼ full + a new full tank and the r410a was barely used.
From what i have picked up you can tell a lot of basic info from a gases P/T chart and what i work with right now is the pressure at -40
r406a is 16 of vacuum
r407c is 3PSIG
r410a is 11.1PSIG
now in order to have a context for those numbers lets throw in something you might be familiar with
r134a is 22.2 of vacuum
r404a is 5.4PSIG
Now after looking at what i had i should just throw the r406a away which i may do but its not costing me anything to keep so this leaves me to choose between 407 and 410, to do this i look first at what i know and what pressures i feel safeish working with so i look up the scale at temps of 55f (44c) and see that
r407c 108.2 PSIG
r410a 157.4 PSIG
after much thinking i have decided to use r407c for a number of reasons, the first being the lower pressures involved and among other reasons i have a lot of it and would prefer to keep the good stuff until such a time i can put it to go use.
A rather productive day even if i do say so myself, payday is coming up in 2 weeks and that will most likely go towards a compressor + some tools, which i am only left with
Hot Gear
Firebricks $5 each
Pro Silver 15 Brazing Rods $1/each
No Flux Needed
Dilute H2So4 Acid $19.95
Welding gloves $10.99
Welding apron $40
Pipe Tools
Flaring kit $50
Swaging tool $10
Pipe Springs for 1/4 to 5/8 $40
Pipe cutters (normal + mini) $60
Other tools
R410a Manifold with 60 2000psia Hoses $130
Vacuum Gauge $40
The most important thing i need to get this payday is the r410a manifold then all of the pipe tools, which i should be able to afford with this payday's cash. Right now I'm going to get some sleep and start planning some basic layout and case design
Good Night All
ok well looks my big ass P/T chart is in the wrong temp range
Teach me for doing this while i'm tired
www.wtfhax.com/ptchart.html
Based on Cool Pack
Temp is C and pressure is PSIA
@ -40c
134a = 7
404a = 19
406a = Vacuum
407c = 12
410c = 26
@+40c
134a = 147
404a = 263
406a = 126
407c = 219
410c = 347
So as you can still still the same result i'm going with the 407c
For some time Ive wanted to get into phase change cooling and Ive started to take the plunge and Im getting my tools together, this thread is a journal of sorts that I plan to update with my learning curve and progress in building, I will also use it to ask questions etc etc
If I list any prices they will be in $USD
The first thing I needed being a total newbie was the basics. I went to refrigeration basics and started with the free samples section given I have a very limited background in physics I skipped the intro and went straight to http://www.refrigerationbasics.com/1024x768/rb2.htm
This proved to be most helpful in the basics, which is all I really needed. At this point in time its not worth being over confused with cascades or HX Exchangers, Start small, Start basic.
I decided my first project would be cheap in components so I wouldnt waste money should I break it. A common place for people to start if with a old fridge, so I got one. It was working and the freezer section would frost in 20min so I just cut suction and discharge with a pair of garden scissors, Its all I had at the time and did the job well.
NOTE: Discharging to the atmosphere is illegal is a lot of countries and some gases may be toxic, I had access to a respirator at the time and cut the pipes outside on a windy day.
The next step was to pull the compressor out as well as the wiring that goes with it, to this point I still dont know how to power the thing yet as Im still learning about compressor start-up and running coils + caps
To recap,
At this point I have limited knowledge of refrigeration
No tools
1 used unknown specs compressor with electrical bits
Some Copper piping
At this point it was clear before I moved along I needed tools so I started to save to buy them. Condensers, evaporators etc werent much use right now so I put the hunt for parts on the back burner, yet as it turns out I ended up with my condenser being given to me from a old AC unit long before I got any tools
I needed to make a list of the tools I would need, after looking on forums and thinking about it this is the list I came up with
Hot Gear
Firebricks
Torch of some sort
Brazing rods
Flux
Mild acid
Dry nitrogen
Welding Clothes and goggles
Pipe Tools
Flaring kit
Swaging tool
Pipe benders
Pipe Cutters
Other tools
Vacuum pump
Charging gauges
Vacuum gauges
From that list I set out to price up the tools and also had to decide on the type of torch I would use
Hot Gear
Firebricks $5 each
Welding/Cutting/Brazing Kit $150
Oxygen/Acetylene Tanks + Gas $80
Pro Silver 15 Brazing Rods $1/each
No Flux Needed
Dilute H2So4 Acid $19.95
Dry Nitrogen Tank + Gas + Regulator $80
Shade 5 goggles + 2 sets of lenses $19.99
Welding gloves $10.99
Welding apron $40
Pipe Tools
Flaring kit $50
Swaging tool $10
Pipe Springs for 1/4 to 5/8 $40
Pipe cutters (normal + mini) $60
Other tools
2hp Air Compressor with threaded intake to use as vacuum $100
R410a Manifold with 60 2000psia Hoses $130
Vacuum Gauge $40
All up thats $855 WOW!
Now you make ask why I dont just spend say $200 and get the parts together and ship them off to of an AirCon place to get assembled. Thats a good point and I thought about it long and hard but in the end I decided it would be best to learn this all myself and I would be able to make a few units and sell them cheap to the people around my region (Wellington, New Zealand) to recover the costs. Thankfully I dont have a wife or house to pay off yet and it will only take a month to get the cash together.
Right now as I save up Im reading up as much as I can and welding/braze/cut pip as much as I can in order to get my skills and knowledge up to the level required.
At this very point in time Im working with a program called CoolPack (http://www.et.dtu.dk/Coolpack/UK/) and the wide range of P/T charts I have converted from PDF to XLS and HTML formats to compose my system design and look into fail-safe
As luck would have it during a brain picking chat with a HVAC engineer on the phone I was offered and have picked up 3 bottles of supposed R406a, R407c and R410a which when I get my gauges I will control the temperature to 15°c and measure the pressure to confirm correct gas and purity. These bottles which are 50-70% full would have cost over $900 to buy full here and Im lucky to have scored them
Thats all I can think of for now, no doubt more questions will arise and I will get more gear together
Ok, time for another update.
I went to BOC gases today and had a meeting with their account manager and walked through what i would need blah blah blah and after 2 hours of really good talking and business advice i walked out with a tank each of oxygen,acetylene and dry nitrogen along with some welding filer and welding goggles.
Next stop with the local hardware shop to find a air compressor, The air compressors were plentiful but air compressors with intake ports weren't, i had to drive by about 4 shops to find one but i did, 2 hp with a 25L tank.
After all of this my wallet had gone from 5y.o kid at ironclads to a catwalk model, I only had enough cash left to buy the welding kit from a local auction site. I got all the gear home and tested it out, sure enough every worked except for a acetylene regulator, which on its output valve had developed a leak. I haven't gotten around to fixing it yet, I'm sure all it needs is some thread tape
I've been given a total of 4 tanks of refrigerant by now and i came to the task of choosing which one to use. I had r406a, r407c and r410a. The 406a was ¾ full, the r407c was ¼ full + a new full tank and the r410a was barely used.
From what i have picked up you can tell a lot of basic info from a gases P/T chart and what i work with right now is the pressure at -40
r406a is 16 of vacuum
r407c is 3PSIG
r410a is 11.1PSIG
now in order to have a context for those numbers lets throw in something you might be familiar with
r134a is 22.2 of vacuum
r404a is 5.4PSIG
Now after looking at what i had i should just throw the r406a away which i may do but its not costing me anything to keep so this leaves me to choose between 407 and 410, to do this i look first at what i know and what pressures i feel safeish working with so i look up the scale at temps of 55f (44c) and see that
r407c 108.2 PSIG
r410a 157.4 PSIG
after much thinking i have decided to use r407c for a number of reasons, the first being the lower pressures involved and among other reasons i have a lot of it and would prefer to keep the good stuff until such a time i can put it to go use.
A rather productive day even if i do say so myself, payday is coming up in 2 weeks and that will most likely go towards a compressor + some tools, which i am only left with
Hot Gear
Firebricks $5 each
Pro Silver 15 Brazing Rods $1/each
No Flux Needed
Dilute H2So4 Acid $19.95
Welding gloves $10.99
Welding apron $40
Pipe Tools
Flaring kit $50
Swaging tool $10
Pipe Springs for 1/4 to 5/8 $40
Pipe cutters (normal + mini) $60
Other tools
R410a Manifold with 60 2000psia Hoses $130
Vacuum Gauge $40
The most important thing i need to get this payday is the r410a manifold then all of the pipe tools, which i should be able to afford with this payday's cash. Right now I'm going to get some sleep and start planning some basic layout and case design
Good Night All
ok well looks my big ass P/T chart is in the wrong temp range
Teach me for doing this while i'm tired
www.wtfhax.com/ptchart.html
Based on Cool Pack
Temp is C and pressure is PSIA
@ -40c
134a = 7
404a = 19
406a = Vacuum
407c = 12
410c = 26
@+40c
134a = 147
404a = 263
406a = 126
407c = 219
410c = 347
So as you can still still the same result i'm going with the 407c