My ISP is "managing" my internet traffic; read: "slower than dial-up" latency

R

RedOctober

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
141
Hey everyone -

I've been trying to troubleshoot my poorly performing internet connection for months now. I've since found the issue, and the outcome (so far) is stunning and infuriating.

My download speeds are good (1.2 to 1.5Mb/s down, and 200-400kb/s up), but my latency to most locations ranges from piss-poor (300ms) to gawd-awful (1250ms). I've called my ISP multiple times about this, and each time, the process was the same (unplug the modem, remove the router, run the speedtest, etc...) No go. . It comes back with decent download/upload speeds as above, and they tell me it's all good.

Website surfing is painfully slow, and gaming is not possible. Today, I pushed back and got a "tier 2" support rep. Here's what he tells me:

"Due to excessive usage, your account's internet traffic is being managed. This means that your consumption exceeds the general guidelines of our terms of service (#11) and we have taken appropriate action to assure that our other customers maintain an acceptable internet experience."

Translation - my internet connection is being traffic-shaped.

:confused: :eek: :mad:

OK - here's what I use the internet for:

  • Web browsing (the [H], Digg, Fark, Jalopnik, Slashdot, woot, BluesNews and what not)
  • You Tube and similar (learning how to play certain songs on the guitar, car stuff, sports stuff)
  • Gmail and Gmail Chat
  • Occasional gaming (today, it was supposed to be Diablo II)
  • Occasional crude humor and adult content (CollegeHumor, foobies, and the like)

Are you f'n kidding me? The agent told me that I was being traffic-shaped for "bit-torrent levels of data transfer" and that this issue was "self-inflicted". I reminded him that I do not use any P2P software - ever. He said "well, you certainly were not browsing and checking e-mail'.

I certainly have been using YouTube a lot lately, as I wanted to learn a number of new songs on the guitar, and it has been very helpful.

I asked what the threshold is that constitutes "excessive consumption", and he told me that there is no numeric threshold and limitations are based on a number of different criteria, and he asked that I check the websites' legal definitions for more information.

When I asked what I needed to do to rectify the current situation, he suggested that I discontinue my "excessive consumption" behavior. See above for the catch-22.

The ISP in question is Clearwire.

I am currently under contract with Clearwire for another year.

My current plan is to cancel on Monday, pay the ETF, and take them to small claims court over the ETF fee.

Suggestions?
 
Virgin Media do this aswell mate so your not alone

it sucks, you dont even have to be doing anything and suddenly your capped?

but what about the legal stuff you can use bit torrent for? like linux distros etc?

its a pain in the arse but Virgin off ther fastest connection in my area so thats why i've stuck with them
 
I'm not familiar with clearwire, but i know the cellular based wireless setups have really bad latency as well. Have you ever gotten acceptable ping times with their service ?
 
ambientZ said:
I'm not familiar with clearwire, but i know the cellular based wireless setups have really bad latency as well. Have you ever gotten acceptable ping times with their service ?
Click to expand...

Absolutely - before this whole fiasco, my latency was only slightly slower than cable or DSL. To most servers, it ranged from 40-80 ms.
 
out of curiousity I wonder what kind of Modulation technique they run.

I know most cable is 64QAM or better, I know they admitted to throttling, but i wonder if there is a QOS aspect as well.
 
I would most definitely get rid of clearwire and avoid any other wireless carrier in the future. They are severely limited in their bandwidth ( wireless is a shared medium afterall ), so the more successful they are the more bullshit like this you will see.

Good rule of thumb; for anybody that knows what latency is, don't use wireless ISPs. It's just a bad idea.
 
If you have a router or access to the modem settings, try changing the DNs settings to the OpenDNS servers:
Primary: 208.67.222.222
Secondary: 208.67.220.220

Save the settings and then restart any computer connected to the router... see if this helps.
 
Thanks screwball - it didn't work, though. :mad:

For those of you wondering what traffic shaping looks/feels like:

I restarted my PC and it usually gets me a few minutes of normal internet back before their traffic shaping figures out who I am. Here is a ping (-t) to yahoo after a reboot:

Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=55 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=51 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=54 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=60 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=60 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=69 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=168 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=234 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=316 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=477 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=645 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=562 TTL=49
Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=668 TTL=49​

...and it all goes downhill from there...
 
screwballl said:
If you have a router or access to the modem settings, try changing the DNs settings to the OpenDNS servers:
Primary: 208.67.222.222
Secondary: 208.67.220.220

Save the settings and then restart any computer connected to the router... see if this helps.
Click to expand...
*sigh*

Why would changing to alternate DNS server affect latency? Can any one explain why this myth is constantly put forward by opendns advocates. Especially by those who've been a member for a single day?
 
i had the same issue a few months back.

I had a bad gigabit switch. When I replaced it with the same exact unit it worked great. Weird.
 
XOR != OR said:
*sigh*

Why would changing to alternate DNS server affect latency? Can any one explain why this myth is constantly put forward by opendns advocates. Especially by those who've been a member for a single day?
Click to expand...

Cause it's free!

Just kidding.
 
XOR != OR said:
Why would changing to alternate DNS server affect latency?
Click to expand...
I was wondering the same thing... Only thing you can improve is the DNS query response even then its only a matter of milliseconds...

See if you can talk to a higher level tech or something. But that sometimes does not get you where you should be. Call them up asking to get uncapped then if they can’t ask them to cancel your service immediately. Usually they will work with you if they care about your business. If not, F them and get a better ISP. Maybe one with a physical connection.

I was capped by my cable ISP. But I was legitimately against there TOS. They uncapped me after I re agreed to there TOS.
 
xeon711 said:
See if you can talk to a higher level tech or something. But that sometimes does not get you where you should be. Call them up asking to get uncapped then if they can’t ask them to cancel your service immediately. Usually they will work with you if they care about your business. If not, F them and get a better ISP. Maybe one with a physical connection.

I was capped by my cable ISP. But I was legitimately against there TOS. They uncapped me after I re agreed to there TOS.
Click to expand...

For Clearwire, there is no discussion on this topic. They don't care if they lose your business, because they'll take your $200 on the way out from the ETF. Most people just pay it and leave. Not me - I have a very serious problem with an accusation of me violating a policy that is intentionally vague (and where they retain the sole opinion on any violation of the vague policy), along with no clear direction on what needs to happed to NOT violate the policy, in addition to no resolution to my current piss-poor state of internet connectivity.

This is the policy I am "in violation of":

Excess Utilization of Network Resources. You may not use the Service or take any action, directly or indirectly, that will result in excessive consumption or utilization of the system or network resources (i.e. excessive peer to peer applications or continuous FTP uploading or downloading, or commercial purposes (except where permitted by Clearwire)), or which may weaken network performance, as determined in Clearwire’s sole discretion.​
 
xeon711 said:
I was wondering the same thing... Only thing you can improve is the DNS query response even then its only a matter of milliseconds...
Click to expand...
And even then, it's only on the initial lookup, it's cached after that.

I've seen that exact claim put forth so many times ( here and on other boards ) that it makes me wonder if there isn't some astroturfing going on.
 
Make sure that your machine and network are clean and that you're not inadvertently being used as a proxy or a spam bot or something like that.

You might also consider getting a bandwidth monitor to keep track of exactly how much data you're using so you have some ammunition to fight back with

If neither of those work, I'd just cancel and get a new ISP like you are planning.
 
NetLimiter Pro, DU Meter, and Bandwidth Meter Pro. Check out all three of these programs (I know the first two are well known and very credible) for bandwidth monitoring. NetLimiter offers some control over your speeds as well. :)

By the way, latency/lag doesn't have anything to do with how fast your internet is, just the delay between responses. A satellite internet plan having a downstream/upstream speed (in KB/s) of 196/64 won't have any different latency compared to a plan that offers 64/16.

EDIT ::
6. Availability of Service/Variation of Speed. You acknowledge that Clearwire service may not be available in all areas, and even within coverage areas service quality, signal strength and network speeds may vary, be lower than advertised or be insufficient for use of the Service. You agree to provide Clearwire with the correct address of your primary place of residence, which will be used to determine whether adequate coverage is available. You further agree to promptly notify Clearwire of any changes in the primary Service address.
Click to expand...

11. Network Management. You acknowledge that speed and bandwidth available to each computer or device connected to the network may vary for reasons including, but not limited to the number of users, computers or devices connected to the network, the amount of data being transferred over the network, and available bandwidth. You also agree that Clearwire retains the right, in its sole and absolute discretion, to employ network management activities including, but not limited to (i) reducing, limiting, or otherwise restricting uplink and downlink speeds and transfer rates, (ii) reducing or limiting peer-to-peer sessions during periods of high network congestion, (iii) preventing the delivery of spam, (iv) detecting malicious Internet traffic and preventing the distribution of viruses or other harmful code or content, and (v) using other tools and techniques to control bandwidth overuse. For further information, please refer to Clearwire’s Acceptable Use Policy, available at www.clearwire.com/company/legal/aup.htm, which may be amended from time to time.
Click to expand...

You aren't totally screwed though. Just install those three programs I recommended and monitor your bandwidth for at least 30 days to get statistics. Then report them here on these forums for further advice.

Dealing with bandwidth fraud cases are fun and easy, just time consuming. :p The reason I mention this is because it would atleast be a start into investigation, and to begin you will need as much evidence against your ISP as possible; that begins at you. Work your way up until you are rock-solid ready to make an appeal to the court(s) in your area or file a claim against your ISP. What for? Infringement over their own TOS and/or bandwidth fraud, etc. Btw, another question to get started is that nowhere in their TOS do they define any limits regarding internet usage. ;)

From what I can tell, their TOS isn't detailed enough in my opinion to keep them protected...well I mean it is, but only from the average newbie. Isn't sufficient against the wrath of a sysadmin (or someone with above average computer knowledge). >:]
 
Cerulean said:
Btw, another question to get started is that nowhere in their TOS do they define any limits regarding internet usage. ;)

From what I can tell, their TOS isn't detailed enough in my opinion to keep them protected...well I mean it is, but only from the average newbie. Isn't sufficient against the wrath of a sysadmin (or someone with above average computer knowledge). >:]
Click to expand...

Yep - here's my guess:

Clearwire has a finite amount of bandwidth they can support on their local tower. They are still sellin' the s#it out of the service here locally, and they are probably past the reasonable capacity of the local tower, and they aren't putting $ into supporting new users.

By having intentionally vague guidelines in their TOS and AUP, they can regulate the usage and scale back ANY users, knowing full well that you can't call them on it, because they haven't defined the available bandwidth or maximum latency to their users in their TOS. This allows them to continue to market to new customers and capture sales without spending infrastructure money on the back-end to support the expanding customer base with the necessary expanded capacity.

Unfortunately, I have no way to prove that theory. Anyone else have any ideas?
 
Cerulean said:
NetLimiter Pro, DU Meter, and Bandwidth Meter Pro. Check out all three of these programs (I know the first two are well known and very credible) for bandwidth monitoring.

...You aren't totally screwed though. Just install those three programs I recommended and monitor your bandwidth for at least 30 days to get statistics. Then report them here on these forums for further advice.
Click to expand...

Cerulean - thanks for the help...

This sounds good in theory, but I can't see where this will help. I don't have any comparable data, and there is nothing in the TOS to define what I am entitled to. So for all intents and purposes, it's just going to give me an irrelevant number. Also - I'm not dealing with this any longer. I can't wait 30 more days of this type of performance.

As for the latency issue, I know that it is not the same as bandwidth - I was able to prove that to them when they kept telling me it was fine because the upload/download speeds tested fine. As I explained to Clearwire support, loading a webpage like MSNBC.com means initiating a large number of connections and transferring a small amount of data for each. Because the current latency of the connection, these hundreds of small data transfers take FOREVER.

As a test, I loaded the main page of three prominent websites in order and timed the results: msnbc.com, cnn.com and foxnews.com. It took 2 minutes and 47 seconds to completely load these pages in order. Logging into my bank for online banking took 1 minute and 37 seconds before I could see my account information.
 
have you tried moving the placement of the modem?
any new wireless devices that may be affecting the signal?

it is a wireless connection, after all, and the latency could be caused by wireless interference.

FYI, traffic-shaping would hardly affect the latency of a connection, except maybe making it timeout completely.
 
j-sta said:
FYI, traffic-shaping would hardly affect the latency of a connection, except maybe making it timeout completely.
Click to expand...
Sure it would. By forcing TCP resends or otherwise delaying the packets from arriving at their destination.
 
j-sta said:
have you tried moving the placement of the modem?
any new wireless devices that may be affecting the signal?

it is a wireless connection, after all, and the latency could be caused by wireless interference.

FYI, traffic-shaping would hardly affect the latency of a connection, except maybe making it timeout completely.
Click to expand...

Nah - it's not a connectivity issue. I have 5 of 5 lights on my modem, and my signal is very strong. Also, when I finally got to a Tier 2 support tech, he plainly stated that my traffic was being "managed" because of excessive consumption.

Traffic shaping absolutely would affect latency. You could make the case that my packets are being put "at the back of the line".
 
I'm curious if you have this connection plugged in to an unsecured wireless router. Someone could be leeching your access and you might not know it.

202276
 
Tytalus said:
I'm curious if you have this connection plugged in to an unsecured wireless router. Someone could be leeching your access and you might not know it.

202276
Click to expand...

Yep - thought of that, but my wireless router is locked down. Additionally, the traffic shaping is going on even when I unplug the router and go directly into the Clearwire modem.
 
RedOctober said:
Yep - thought of that, but my wireless router is locked down. Additionally, the traffic shaping is going on even when I unplug the router and go directly into the Clearwire modem.
Click to expand...

locked down with what? Need specifics...WPA-PSK, WPA2-PSK
 
call them and remind them comcast just got slapped by the FCC for doing that. if they won't unblock you tell them your going to cancel service. traffic shaping is illegal at the moment from my understanding, unless of course there is something in the TOS about it.
 
what OS are you using and what type of router if any?
try bypassing the router and see if that has an effect if there is a router.
tracert www.google.com from command line using windows, traceroute www.google.com using most other OS'
find the hop that is causing the most latency for you that is where the problem is. if they are managing your internet it more than likely is during peak times, high usage. personally i would never get a wireless provider the technology just isn't out there. sorry for your troubles. have you ran a port scan on your IP to see if there are any lingering open ports? how many cordless phones do you have 2.4 GHz? cordless phones for the wireless transmission from the provider might also impact it when in use.

your ISP Clearwater should be using the same IP addresses throughout the network, so if you find that your IP for them is 128.129.X.X, and the latency from your trace shows problems with the 128.129.X.X that is where the traffic shaping is so to speak or latency issue in their headend. if not problem lies elsewhere.

Also changing the DNS servers only ensures connections to websites not how fast you browse just to clarify. I use a personally managed DNS server for primary and then 4.2.2.6 for my secondary. That IP is for Level 3 a backbone provider for the US. Hope this helps some.
 
bryanwii said:
Also changing the DNS servers only ensures connections to websites not how fast you browse just to clarify.
Click to expand...
Erm....

DNS resolve resource records to further resource records or IP addresses. That's it. It does not ensure connections to websites; the resource can resolve but not be reachable.
 
XOR != OR said:
Erm....

DNS resolve resource records to further resource records or IP addresses. That's it. It does not ensure connections to websites; the resource can resolve but not be reachable.
Click to expand...

excuse me naming resolution. i apologize thanks for the catch :cool:
 
Jabroni31169 said:
locked down with what? Need specifics...WPA-PSK, WPA2-PSK
Click to expand...

It's locked down as tight as it can be - trust me. I probably wouldn't be very good at my chosen profession if I didn't get this part right. No one else is using my wireless, and I have stated that the issue exists whether or not I am using the wireless router.

bryanwii said:
what OS are you using and what type of router if any?
Click to expand...
Any - the latency exists on the connection whether one PC or four are connected; whether there is a router in use or not; whether the OS is WinXP or Win2003 SVR. It is always there - even if no PC is in use (I can ping FROM the internet to my router, and the latency exists).

Here's a tracert:

Tracing route to www.hardocp.com [75.126.99.100]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10.0.0.1
2 934 ms 840 ms 899 ms 64-13-0-2.mfd.clearwire-dns.net [64.13.0.2]
3 915 ms 1037 ms 992 ms gw.clearwire-coreds.net [207.55.226.17]
4 1188 ms 654 ms 836 ms qwest.coreds.net [207.55.224.5]
5 672 ms 861 ms 882 ms eug-edge-02.inet.qwest.net [65.121.110.41]
6 1041 ms 871 ms 1030 ms eug-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.150.9]
7 961 ms 885 ms 902 ms sea-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.205.214]
8 839 ms 789 ms 801 ms sea-brdr-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.26.54]
9 905 ms 807 ms 766 ms bpr3-so-2-0-0.seattleswitchdesign.savvis.net [208.173.49.1]
10 * 653 ms 561 ms cr1-pos-0-3-0-1.Seattle.savvis.net [208.172.83.62]
11 533 ms 564 ms 442 ms cr2-tengige0-7-5-0.dallas.savvis.net [204.70.196.29]
12 520 ms 566 ms 553 ms dpr1-ge-4-0-0.dallasequinix.savvis.net [204.70.196.30]
13 709 ms 760 ms 768 ms er1-te-2-1.dallasequinix.savvis.net [204.70.204.145]
14 791 ms 747 ms 851 ms te1-1.cer02.dal01.dallas-datacenter.com [208.175.175.10]
15 732 ms 719 ms 566 ms po2.dar01.dal01.dallas-datacenter.com [66.228.118.205]
16 624 ms 623 ms 600 ms po1.fcr01.dal01.dallas-datacenter.com [66.228.118.154]
17 588 ms 471 ms 628 ms router01.dal01.hardocp.com [75.126.49.82]
18 424 ms 365 ms 414 ms www1.hardocp.com [75.126.99.100]​

As you can see, the latency starts at the first hop, where my traffic is being "managed".
 
RedOctober said:
It's locked down as tight as it can be - trust me. I probably wouldn't be very good at my chosen profession if I didn't get this part right. No one else is using my wireless, and I have stated that the issue exists whether or not I am using the wireless router.


Any - the latency exists on the connection whether one PC or four are connected; whether there is a router in use or not; whether the OS is WinXP or Win2003 SVR. It is always there - even if no PC is in use (I can ping FROM the internet to my router, and the latency exists).

Here's a tracert:

Tracing route to www.hardocp.com [75.126.99.100]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10.0.0.1
2 934 ms 840 ms 899 ms 64-13-0-2.mfd.clearwire-dns.net [64.13.0.2]
3 915 ms 1037 ms 992 ms gw.clearwire-coreds.net [207.55.226.17]
4 1188 ms 654 ms 836 ms qwest.coreds.net [207.55.224.5]
5 672 ms 861 ms 882 ms eug-edge-02.inet.qwest.net [65.121.110.41]
6 1041 ms 871 ms 1030 ms eug-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.150.9]
7 961 ms 885 ms 902 ms sea-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.205.214]
8 839 ms 789 ms 801 ms sea-brdr-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.26.54]
9 905 ms 807 ms 766 ms bpr3-so-2-0-0.seattleswitchdesign.savvis.net [208.173.49.1]
10 * 653 ms 561 ms cr1-pos-0-3-0-1.Seattle.savvis.net [208.172.83.62]
11 533 ms 564 ms 442 ms cr2-tengige0-7-5-0.dallas.savvis.net [204.70.196.29]
12 520 ms 566 ms 553 ms dpr1-ge-4-0-0.dallasequinix.savvis.net [204.70.196.30]
13 709 ms 760 ms 768 ms er1-te-2-1.dallasequinix.savvis.net [204.70.204.145]
14 791 ms 747 ms 851 ms te1-1.cer02.dal01.dallas-datacenter.com [208.175.175.10]
15 732 ms 719 ms 566 ms po2.dar01.dal01.dallas-datacenter.com [66.228.118.205]
16 624 ms 623 ms 600 ms po1.fcr01.dal01.dallas-datacenter.com [66.228.118.154]
17 588 ms 471 ms 628 ms router01.dal01.hardocp.com [75.126.49.82]
18 424 ms 365 ms 414 ms www1.hardocp.com [75.126.99.100]​

As you can see, the latency starts at the first hop, where my traffic is being "managed".
Click to expand...


damn if i were you id leave them. i know its $200 and i paid $200 to leave sprint early and go with AT&T cell phone service. best choice i ever made to be honest.
 
The best readings you could get would be to ping your default gateway from your edge device ( router ). That'll give you the latency of that hop at least.

Of course, that probably won't tell you what's happening after the default gateway ( throttling ) ...but it's a start.
 
RedOctober said:
It's locked down as tight as it can be - trust me. I probably wouldn't be very good at my chosen profession if I didn't get this part right. No one else is using my wireless, and I have stated that the issue exists whether or not I am using the wireless router.
Click to expand...

You missed the point....totally. They are shaping your traffic based off your modem/username. The question was based on the fact that maybe someone was using your wireless for bad things that caused you to be shaped in the first place. They are going to shape your traffic no matter what you do right now.

Either way your fucked...unless you go steal someone elses modem.
 
Jabroni31169 said:
You missed the point....totally. They are shaping your traffic based off your modem/username. The question was based on the fact that maybe someone was using your wireless for bad things that caused you to be shaped in the first place. They are going to shape your traffic no matter what you do right now.

Either way your fucked...unless you go steal someone elses modem.
Click to expand...

Oh - my bad. :)

I failed to mention one point earlier. When I was originally on the phone with them, he stated that it look like a high-volume of "streaming video" was likely the cause. When I asked about YouTube, he confirmed that there was (in their opinion) a large amount of streaming video going on. He originally thought it was something like NetFlix streaming service.

To which I replied: "No - I'm not a NetFlix customer. Yea - I use YouTube to learn specific songs on guitar, listed to cover songs, watch car videos, sports highlights and the works".

He originally tried to pin it on P2P traffic, but I told him "Uh, no. Try again." and he looked deeper to see that there was a lot of "streaming video" - an "excessive amount", according to them. So yea - It's definitely me they are talking about.

In any case, I know that wireless is never totally secure, but mine is a lot harder to get into than the three WAPs I can see right now with no security at all. Also, I keep an eye on the connected MAC addresses. So I can say, with a high degree of certainty, no one has been borrowing my connection and using BitTorrent on it.

...and no, I'm not fucked unless I just sit here and take it. I'm doing something about it, and i just happen to be consulting with a few [H] friends first. :p
 
RedOctober said:
He originally tried to pin it on P2P traffic, but I told him "Uh, no. Try again." and he looked deeper to see that there was a lot of "streaming video" - an "excessive amount", according to them. So yea - It's definitely me they are talking about.
Click to expand...

It sounds like he was just taking stabs in the dark to try to blame you for something. He didn't just read something wrong on his screen to say it was P2P traffic, he just wanted to blame you for something. Video streaming was probably his next best guess. :p
 
RedOctober said:
...and no, I'm not fucked unless I just sit here and take it. I'm doing something about it, and i just happen to be consulting with a few [H] friends first. :p
Click to expand...
I hate to break it to you, but you are fucked. In all likelihood, you aren't getting the 200 bucks back. Their TOS will allow them to kill your puppy and get away with it.

Fight as hard as you can, maybe I'm wrong. But I've seen this a hundred times, with various satellite and wireless companies. At the end of the day, people end up chaulking it up to a painful lesson learned; wireless and satellite just aren't worth it unless they are the only ones you can get.
 
MFCGMFC said:
Virgin Media do this aswell mate so your not alone

it sucks, you dont even have to be doing anything and suddenly your capped?

but what about the legal stuff you can use bit torrent for? like linux distros etc?

its a pain in the arse but Virgin off ther fastest connection in my area so thats why i've stuck with them
Click to expand...

All thanks to the greedy bugger Branson! There are no other decent ISP's in UK (ADSL is not available in my area!And all the ADSL providers are crap anyway)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top