My HKC X3 144hz 1ms hi contrast VA panel is in!

ONE thing that i could tell you about PIXEL RESPONSE. Listen carefully! I will tell you only once more.
When I drag a page, a menu or any thing from windows really fast, i can STILL READ IT.

I couldn't do that with my 60hz IPS monitor that is rated at "5ms." This is the first time I can experience this with any screen. Really, you won't lose battles from visual feedback in the game
Couple this with a fast mouse like Logitech, Steelseries or Final Mouse the top 3 for input lag and u could be a top dawg tryhard mlg.

The difference in speed if any worse than any TN could be next to minimal.
 
It's because 85%+ of the blur is caused by the image persistence and not the pixel response times. And the higher the refresh, the lower the persistence.
Besides, the Sharp panel is definitely faster than the occasionally sluggish and badly overdriven 35'' AUO VA panel.
Although at least the FG2421 still shows some similarly slow dark pixel transitions in the Tftcentral tests. Curious whether the many upcoming high refresh VA will improve.

Yet once you see strobing, even the 8ms persistence of a 120hz display will look just extremely blurry compared to it. (I had a 144hz TN with Lightboost hack for a while)

Btw. did you notice anthing like this on your HKC:

视频: HKC X3 csgo 蓝影光圈视频二

or a faint blue shadow behind one of the Ufos in the tests? It looks like an overdrive artifact.
 
igluk said:
It's because 85%+ of the blur is caused by the image persistence and not the pixel response times. And the higher the refresh, the lower the persistence.
Besides, the Sharp panel is definitely faster than the occasionally sluggish and badly overdriven 35'' AUO VA panel.
Although at least the FG2421 still shows some similarly slow dark pixel transitions in the Tftcentral tests. Curious whether the many upcoming high refresh VA will improve.

Yet once you see strobing, even the 8ms persistence of a 120hz display will look just extremely blurry compared to it. (I had a 144hz TN with Lightboost hack for a while)

Btw. did you notice anthing like this on your HKC:

视频: HKC X3 csgo 蓝影光圈视频二

or a faint blue shadow behind one of the Ufos in the tests? It looks like an overdrive artifact.
Click to expand...

That video is extremely exaggerated. I have never seen anything like that in game or in windows at all. The only time i would see a tiny faint blue shadow is in the Blur tests, due to the overdrive nature there is a slight overshoot but I can't get myself to see it any other time. Even in the test its very faint, it doesn't create a negative image or anything.

Be nice if u could get this screen to test the SMTT yourself, but ideally hop into games and see how it performs for you.

I have seen the simulation on the blurbusters site for the light strobing, it appears that the image is totally still. It is much better of course! But that is if u really like it on with 18ms of input lag vs it off at 13. (according to Fg2421 comparison) I'm not sure what games don't care about input lag? I was thinking maybe RTS , but then i see how aggressive Starcraft players are and that would really hamper your APM. Maybe puzzle games?
 
Yeah it is a problem with Turbo240 on the Fg2421, it increases the signal processing delay further to ~13-14ms (Tftcentral). With other strobing displays this usually does not happen.
Also it is using a sort of double strobe (one long, one short flash per frame) so there should be a faint image doubling effect on fast moving edges.
But it can reach much higher brightness than other strobing screens.
The biggest downside is that you can't use FreeSync/G-Sync and BLS/ULMB. at the same time (minus the one guy who apparently managed it via hacks), so if you can't get a stable 120/100/85fps it will not look that great. Also the eye-strain/flicker.
At least it is a nice callback to CRT times and the motion clarity that came with it.

I'm not going to get another display for a while, I don't have very high demands actually and am happy where I am (for now)
Also I play mostly single player games so I don't need a competitive edge.
 
Well. It's a VA, on certain colors it will do that, it's just the nature of the panel. The reason it's more apparent in that video is because the ladder is red and it's moving against a white background.

If you go by basically every panel in existence even "1Ms" GtG Tn Panels, none of them are 1Ms in reality on average - not in practice at usable/optimal levels. They reach it at extreme overdrive for a ms here or there on easy transitions and that's about how far that claim goes.

Though i would still be interested in smtt or similar test results of the X3, I would almost bet my bottom dollar that being a close sibling to the panel found in the Foris that the HKC is closer to 8Ms GtG on average, otherwise it would be an anomaly in the universe, and using logic and the fact i've been reading and following monitor reviews fairly religiously for the last 10 years, i'm going to say there's no way it is that much better on average than the Foris let alone the Acer Predators ect. And it's certainly not faster than a typical "1ms Gtg" - actual 2-4ms average 120Hz Tn panel without massive overshoot.

But if it is as fast as an Acer Predator or even in between an Acer Predator and a "4ms" Tn, that's still pretty damn good for Va. It no doubt it has extremely high peaks in some transitions. Now whether someone notices them or not in the games "they" happen to play is another thing, and if they never do then all the better for them.

120Hz 144hz, while certainly much better than 60Hz, it's still not as clear in fine details ( texture detail smearing ) in motion as a crt at almost half that refresh rate. I wasn't that impressed with 120Hz 144Hz like most people coming from 60Hz lcds are to be honest, but i haven't gamed at 60Hz since the 90's. ULMB or strobing finley tuned i could perhaps succeed that it is good enough, perhaps even better if there is no crosstalk or ghosting.

Alas, I will buy a monitor later this year or early next after these new Va's are revealed, and see what's on the horizon. I snatched a 1070 with most of my monitor money, which i really needed before a new monitor anyway, my 660 wasn't going to be playing Doom at even 1080p let alone 1440p. I may even upgrade the rest of my system first. I found this little 900p 10 year old tn i'm using now overclocks to true 75Hz - over VGA anyway, so i'm still not gaming at 60Hz :D And it's a pure glossy screen so for me that almost trumps everything really.

Funny thing. It's 2016 and i am still using Vga and have never used anything but vga in my life, lol, never owned an hdmi cable, nor a dvi cable, lol. But my cherry is about to be cracked, dvi cable should be here today, and 1070 here tomorrow. :D
I have a strange gut feeling that i won't get 75Hz over Dvi on this thing for some reason, the cruelty of the universe perhaps.
 
I have seen that same phenomena shown in the CSGO video with the overshoot looking effect on the GW2470H that i tested some time ago. I don't think VA will ever have fast enough pixel responsiveness when compared to IPS and TN. IPS has gotten close to TN with the new AHVA 144hz panels, but its still a little slower than the fastest TN, not to mention that the AHVAs overall quality to a top tier IPS is still lacking, so there looks like there was some tradeoff of image quality for speed, but i guess its a worthy compromise since AHVA destroys TN in everything besides absolute speed.
 
That's the thing with any LCD panel. It's an old, outdated technology that is trying to push its end of life peak limits..
Let's take a look at BenQ XL2730Z Review - TFT Central BENQ xl2730oz. This is a very popular TN panel esp in ESL sports, and with AMA off it has 8.5ms GtG response. But then look at HIGH it goes down to a nice 3.1ms. But with 4.8 overshoot errors.

My monitor looks something like this, But ofc most of the time you will not notice it unless you're doing a benchmark with a camera and are looking for it. Thing with Video cameras especially those uploaded by users (not officials) is that the processing, frame rate sync and other issues are exaggerating its effects.

This is reason why I can't rely on giving you a cell phone video on PWM tests, to the naked eye this is not valid.

With TFTcentral, the effect isn't exaggerated but it's freeze frame to where we wouldn't notice it if in motion for day to day usage.

fcf6a4ec24.png


bd903dc5d4.png


Turning that on produces faint blue OD artifacts. If you look on that site, every TN panel has this. It's just how LCD tech is.

There is no 1ms ever to be reached in ANY monitor that is an LCD without overdrive artifacts. OLED on the other hand, is at below <1ms and now 0.1ms without OD. The only issue is that all of them are TVs and have input lag added from their processing engines. LG is very notorious for having the slowest of TVs, so other companies should produce them much faster. While LG is normal to have 60ms of input lag, a Sony could have 25ms. So for Dell to come up with OLED is bringing up some hope, I hope to see how low of a lag they can do. Lately, they have the record for lowest input lag ips panels and decent pixel rates despite it only being 60hz.

But then to say that hey this is only a VA panel thing is just not right. I have used a few TN panels a work and then owned a Samsung 120hz TN panel Samsung 2233RZ Review , i thought it was total trash so I returned it after a week. I was not sold for the motion clarity, people were raving that it would be better than my VA panel and improve my game, but it did not.

CRT surely is better in motion clarity than any lcd, but u also have a lot of other visual and physical tradeoffs as well. (very dim white balance/contrast ratio, poor convergence, heavy, too bulky, need a real desk not an Ikea pos)

We really need mass market priced OLEDS to be NOW to then have screens that have little compromise.

But I chose my compromise already. I decided that I could no longer live with middle gray values that pose itself as blacks, gamma shift, IPS glow and low contrast images.
I think if you really got to use this screen for a while in gaming, you might decide that the tradeoff is worth it, but maybe not. The problem today is that stores rarely have the monitors we want and most have to be mail ordered. I realize buying this HKC x3 is a big risk for you all..
 
Last edited:
Another satisfied customer Blur Busters Forums • View topic - My Import HKC x3 23.5" PVA 144hz is here Garryanderson bought the HKC X3 Upon seeing my review. He basically confirmed a few things

-120hz is usable, but 144hz is not (skipping frames even with Displayport)
-Monitor's color and contrast look fantastic
-No ghosting
-Didn't notice input lag

debate for me is still out on banding, each source via computer, laptop or ps3 show differently. But the one screen that doesn't show banding is my TN 6bit laptop with dithering..

HKC needs to remove the 144hz advertisement and keep it as 120hz. Actually tho, a lot of monitors at TFTcentral are false 144hz screens as well, too many RTC errors.
 
Hello, so I just built a new computer in China and bought the HKC X3.

I am not really pleased with it, I suppose it is some calibration problems but I can't figure how to "fix" it. Here is some pictures of what is troubling me :

JxY1Kgb.jpg




This is with a low contrast setting and it looks the same irl. Here is with a higher contrast :



o2gXYRC.jpg




It appears pretty much in all darker scenes, on wallpapers or in motion :



uiJWpfm.jpg


I put the color calibration like DanzoMeteor suggested (R50-G45-B42). Mode is standard. DCR is off. I have an Nvidia GPU (GTX 1070) so I can tweak some settings in Control Panel, didn't have much success yet...

Do you have an idea on how to fix it?

Also, if you want me to do some tests (easy ones, available with free online tools or a regular camera), I will be happy to contribute!

Thanks!
 
Wth happened to the screen? Which cable are you using? I have had issues with strange blobs on screen and that was caused by an old dvi cable. If changing cable does not help u need to complain.
 
^ That's banding, but it looks really bad, like 16-bit. I hope this is not due to shitty FRC dithering.
First, make sure you have set Desktop color depth to 32-bit in Nvidia Control panel and check the cables.

Here is a gradient test you could check out/photograph:
http://i.rtings.com/images/gradient.png
or .tif
http://ca.rtings.com/images/test-materials/2016/gradient-16-bit.tif

For games - Reshade Framework with Deband Shader by Jpulowski
For movies - MadVR
These should help a lot with source material where banding is inherent, and also a bit on monitors with gradient issues (though only as long as it is not too bad it won't magically fix fubar gradients)

Example:
W3 : Screenshot Comparison
 
igluk said:
^ That's banding, but it looks really bad, like 16-bit. I hope this is not due to shitty FRC dithering.
First, make sure you have set Desktop color depth to 32-bit in Nvidia Control panel and check the cables.

Here is a gradient test you could check out/photograph:
http://i.rtings.com/images/gradient.png
or .tif
http://ca.rtings.com/images/test-materials/2016/gradient-16-bit.tif

For games - Reshade Framework with Deband Shader by Jpulowski
For movies - MadVR
These should help a lot with source material where banding is inherent, and also a bit on monitors with gradient issues (though only as long as it is not too bad it won't magically fix fubar gradients)

Example:
W3 : Screenshot Comparison
Click to expand...


Ok, i thought he meant the horizontal lines were on every image. Phazon needs to clarify. And yes, there's banding on certain images but I haven't seen any in brighter scenes and it depends which graphics card it outputs from and what settings I used in calibration. I can get varying results.

if u go to Gratisography | Free High Resolution Pictures there is no banding on high quality source images. Igluk and Phazon can you try this site?

And are you using Nvidia graphics? There's some long debate about banding in Nvidia cards
 
DanzoMeteor said:
Ok, i thought he meant the horizontal lines were on every image. Phazon needs to clarify. And yes, there's banding on certain images but I haven't seen any in brighter scenes and it depends which graphics card it outputs from and what settings I used in calibration. I can get varying results.

if u go to Gratisography | Free High Resolution Pictures there is no banding on high quality source images. Igluk and Phazon can you try this site?

And are you using Nvidia graphics? There's some long debate about banding in Nvidia cards
Click to expand...

HQ images look great, but I have no real banding issues on my panel (8-bit AMVA+)
Only some slight gradations visible in the grey/dark grey and dark green sections on the rtings test, the other colours are flawless.

Nvidia color settings can indeed cause a little banding, especially their gamma setting. But should be rather subtle, not to a great extent.
 
^ I have played DOOM and there's no banding at all even in darkest or mid dark scenes. I'd say I see about 32 vertical fine lines on the lagom test for gradient. But it's not 16 hard vertical bars.
There is only banding on low quality compression in youtube videos and some in 4k videos where it was also compressed wrong.

Phazon, are you using gamma 1 or gamma 2? Can you try switching to gamma 2 for a second ?
Also, really the cable is your first test.
 
Ok so that' s a lot to grasp, need to give me some time ahah.

The cable I used on the previous pictures are the DVI-D coming with the monitor. I just changed with an ordinary HDMI cable and the results are the same (to me).

Here is the radiant taken with the HDMI cable :

hsviOa0.jpg


Red and blue are kinda ok on the screen. Green and gray are bad.

I can't open the high quality pictures from the website for some reason,maybe Dropbox is blocked in China, I don't have a VPN atm.

I tried another HDMI cable and it's almost the same. Here are the settings I have in Nvidia Control Panel :

uQqOBQj.png


Oh and for the gamma I put as you said, Gamma 1 on the screen and 1.05 with Nvidia Control Panel.
PvCugcL.png
 
Ok, green and gray were bad out of the box for me and sometimes when I calibrated it with different settings. I assume that each panel is similar with an offset of 5% but maybe yours is different enough some calibration.

This nvidia banding issue is ongoing https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/815189/noticeable-color-banding-in-gradients-/

Can you try the screen with another computer that doesn't use Nvidia?

Also, if the screen bit depth might be lower than expected but we can try to work around it. I'm not 100% sure on this though.
 
I can connect my Wii U to the screen but that's it. Will try tomorrow and tell you (2 am in China atm...)

What would you suggest me to do? Can I try to calibrate it without buying anything else or return it?

Bed time...
 
Many of the examples in the Nvidia topic are inherent issues in the source material and not caused by drivers.
Posting the original wallpaper/screenshot in addition to the photo would help people with other displays verify that.
In any case try using Deband shaders, they can be incredibly effective. Won't work in Desktop, but for everything else.
Changing gamma from 1.05 back to 1.00, may have a subtle improving effect on the test image but that's all.
I've seen these parasitic hues in dark greys in quite a lot of monitor reviews, it is not such a rare occurence.

Here's my display. Also Nvidia, this is with flat 2.2 power curve gamma
https://abload.de/img/4305xvssm.jpg
Camera is not so good but mentioned impurities in dark green and grey visible (dark red is fine - it's the camera)..but in practice only the test shows it.
There are also slight gradation errors in the darkest part of grey, not visible on the photo.

rtings test is pretty brutal anyway, even the LG E6 native 10-bit OLED (!) fails a bit on the dark blue gradient but still got a 9.5
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/e6/e6-gradient-large.jpg

various other TV's
Gradients on TVs: Color bit depth
 
Last edited:
I had pretty bad banding/gradients on my VG248QE a couple years ago when i owned one. After buying a i1 display pro and calibrating the screen it greatly reduced or eliminated those issues for me in areas where i noticed them before. One particular spot i always saw it was on the CS:GO load screen with the smokey background towards the bottom, after calibration it was completely gone. All 6 bit + FRC monitors will have some amount of banding, hell even true 8 bit panels can still suffer from the problem, but i reckon its much less than a lower quality display.
 
PHAZON: i recommend turning your Nvidia panel back to 1.0 for now and taking a look at everything. Since that could be interfering.

Well, I have my color profile disabled and compared an A and B version of my laptop to my gaming PC. I can tell you that the banding is surely smoother in the gray areas (but still there) in the laptop. However lets take a look what else has banding
LAGOM SAYS "If you try to improve the display of the previous tests (with either monitor settings or video card settings) you might get more banding here. In that case: bad luck, you can't have it all."

Did you try these images then? I reuploaded it to Imgur

http://i.imgur.com/ovEgLHa.jpg - Lots of gray to black transition
http://i.imgur.com/96jfLB1.jpg -Sky gradient

There is 0 banding on the HKC or any screen above due to high quality compression

Lagom banding test:

I can't give you pictures as they all look like junk and exaggerate it what it shown.

HKC x3 directly from PS3: Banding yes -but is less on the web browser banding test than on PC

SONY KDL W900A 55" -banding yes
SONY 40" KDL 40xbr4 -banding yes
Dell i5-5558 15.6" laptop - banding yes
LG/DAVI IPS 24" same as apple cinema -banding yes

Oh but look what passes!
A 6 bit TN Gateway Laptop screen (one smooth blob)
NO banding. Why? The damn dithering smoothes it out so much that it is no longer there.

But look at this:
Vizio 12 bit panel - M43-C1 4k screen- smoother but still has 100s of fine bands. Better than the screens on top but it's still there.

BUT in every screen i tested, there is no banding in a very high quality image of grays and blacks here:

I believe the issue is somewhat software related as well.

Another test i did on input lag:

Kingdom hearts birth by sleep PS3 :
There's this game in Disneytown where you are supposed to hit a rhythm based game , but you gotta time it by v isual colors rather than sound.
The colors transition from green to red and back, and that's a big pain in the butt for any LCD screen. I don't see why square did this? It only is doable on non lcds.

My typical score in VIZIO m43 is 240-300. Each correct hit is around 10 points. I got 846 when I simply switched to the HKC x3 at 60hz limit for the PS3. I imagine at 120hz this will be even easier due to half the inpug lag and faster response time.
Input lag on the M43 is 18.5ms so it can't be anywhere near this figure. 16ms=1 frame of animation at 60hz.
 
Last edited:
Odellus said:
changing nvidia gamma causes banding. known issue.
Click to expand...
I just turned off the nvidia gamma to default and now my lagom test are identical to all my other 8 bit and 12 bit screens! Which means theres still some banding, which is very fine and a lot smoother. But that's every monitor I've used. It's nothing really major

btw, using DisplayCal utilizes the video card gamma to adjust , so the problem will always be there. Just like Lagom says, you can fix gamma with calibration but you will likely trade banding .

"LAGOM SAYS "If you try to improve the display of the previous tests (with either monitor settings or video card settings) you might get more banding here. In that case: bad luck, you can't have it all.""

Anyways, without the Nvidia gamma boost its a little darker but not much. Details aren't lost or anything and saturation is still good. If you prefer this look and no banding you can choose this setting.
 
Hi. I got scammed out of my money and I'm disputing it thanks to PayPal. Never do business with BestStoreOnline.

Do you know of any reputable dealer who accepts PayPal credit where I can get this from? I really want those deep blacks and high refresh rates.
 
Kermie said:
Hi. I got scammed out of my money and I'm disputing it thanks to PayPal. Never do business with BestStoreOnline.

Do you know of any reputable dealer who accepts PayPal credit where I can get this from? I really want those deep blacks and high refresh rates.
Click to expand...
What really? You didn't buy it at DOTDOTBUy like i said you should ? I already said they took paypal. Cuz I wouldn't pay with those awful Chinese fishy credit card companies. Every company was horrible, and only they came out strong.

The only other people who didn't use them are ppl living in China as overseas workers or residents.

I warned everyone about using anything else XD I'm really sorry! BUT Paypal should refund your money! They always do! Good luck
 
Last edited:
Just to let you know... My monitor has experienced burn-in.

This is the first time I've seen burn-in happen to me.

Alongside the green line and the instability of the monitor that could die at any second. I'm falling out of love with HKC monitors.

That X3 had the highest contrast ratio but since I can't find one with a similar ratio. I think it is time for me to move on.

If you got yours at an expensive price. Be aware of this issue for you might of been ripped off quality wise.
 

Attachments

  • 20170825_051811.jpg
    20170825_051811.jpg
    71.9 KB · Views: 33
Ouch!

You can probably heal the burn in? Some monitors have this burn in mode which switches colors. You leave that over night and it should help
 
Hello, just created an account here, in interested in the HKC X3. I'm concerned about warranty though. What happens if its DOA when I get it? I live in Europe so I'd have to use a taobao agent.
 
Can these still be bought? If so, from where? OR, since the original topic is over a year old, has it been discontinued and a newer model has come out?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top