MW3's "elite" (premium) service, Beginning of the End

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Dethred

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Paying for extra content has though, and that also started on the PC, the king platform for bullshit.

CoD is a side issue, it's just a game with strong enough sales to actually push something like this and not have it blow up in their face.

And there have been some large scale FPS games with subscriptions before.... just only on the PC, as always, the land where this sort of thing starts.


Do you have any proof of your bullshit claims, or are you just trolling? If you're just trolling, at least make it funny, because this is pathetic.
 

Dethred

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Really? There has been a whole ton of pillow biting and screaming on this forum alone over DLC lately. Yes it wasn't an issue in the past and I certainly never encountered people that whined over having to pay for expansions, DLC, subscriptions or shit in the past, but it's come up now.

If they aren't deserving of it, don't pay it. Countless PC games with micro transactions, pay to play models have up and died off because the game wasn't good enough. If you don't like it, don't play.



I prefer arcade machines honestly. Though arcades > consoles > mobiles > PC.

Definitely convinced of troll status. I have played PC games almost exclusively (except for console racing "sims" and the occasional FIFA game) and I don't know of any games with micro transactions or DLC until recently, unless the game itself has been subscription based. Hell, I haven't played a game that required a subscription, and I sure as hell haven't played a game that had microtransactions. Some games are entirely online and require a subscription fee like WoW and a few others, but you are actually getting a something other than statistics from that money (not to mention most of those games are either free or almost free to begin with). Games like Battlefield Heroes and Play4Free don't count because no one plays them, and they're worthless. Even with those games, you at least get a free game first.

Your trolling bullshit brings me to the ultimate question. This entire site is centered around PC gaming and PC hardware that is closely related. Very few of the sub forums aren't, in some way, related to PC gaming... so if you prefer mobile device games over PC... why the fuck are you here?

You certainly aren't adding value to the thread, as every one of your claims consists of unsupported fecal matter.
 

defiant007

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The only non-mmo game which I recall ever selling micro $DLC (i.e. not a fully fledged expansion pack actually worth buying) before the advent of horse armor was BF2 with the two booster packs which pretty much failed abysmally.
 
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The only non-mmo game which I recall ever selling micro $DLC (i.e. not a fully fledged expansion pack actually worth buying) before the advent of horse armor was BF2 with the two booster packs which pretty much failed abysmally.

Weren't those expansion packs? I know that BF2142 had Northern Strike or something, no idea what it did though(gave you a few free unlocks? or added something new for the commander/squad leader) but I never got mine to work :(
 

sd11

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Microtransactions started with online MMO's where you didn't pay a subscription, they were mostly Asian in nature though. But they have been pulling it since 2002 at least which is where I ran into it.

I OC PC's and I build PC's, that's why I'm here, and I work in IT.

And getting something from them, like WOW, does not change the fact that this toxic mess started on the PC and was tested there before it went to go infect consoles. Pay to play still started with PC, you just get less with each passing generation.

You can insult me all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that these issues were PC issues that then moved to infect other platforms when they went online. You can thank PC gamers for all of that.
 

defiant007

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Weren't those expansion packs? I know that BF2142 had Northern Strike or something, no idea what it did though(gave you a few free unlocks? or added something new for the commander/squad leader) but I never got mine to work :(

They included 3 maps each and new vehicles, hardly worthy of being called an expansion pack and more akin to the bullshit DLC put out by Activision these days.
 

defiant007

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Microtransactions started with online MMO's where you didn't pay a subscription, they were mostly Asian in nature though. But they have been pulling it since 2002 at least which is where I ran into it.

I OC PC's and I build PC's, that's why I'm here, and I work in IT.

And getting something from them, like WOW, does not change the fact that this toxic mess started on the PC and was tested there before it went to go infect consoles. Pay to play still started with PC, you just get less with each passing generation.

You can insult me all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that these issues were PC issues that then moved to infect other platforms when they went online. You can thank PC gamers for all of that.

Asian MMO's? That's the crutch of your argument? That's hardly indicative or demonstrable of anything given how vastly different the Asian market is compared to western markets. In reality this can all be traced back to one paradigm shifting event.....horse armor.

http://www.gamesradar.com/oblivions...xplicable-we-call-it-basic-human-degradation/
 

sd11

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Asian MMO's? That's the crutch of your argument? That's hardly indicative or demonstrable of anything given how vastly different the Asian market is compared to western markets. In reality this can all be traced back to one paradigm shifting event.....horse armor.

http://www.gamesradar.com/oblivions...xplicable-we-call-it-basic-human-degradation/

There have been others. But you're discounting free to play runs on everything items shows how sill you are. I could also point to second life and that idiocy, again, PC based, where all crap starts.

You need to wake up and realize that the vast majority of PC gaming is not the type done here. That's where the crap starts, and that's where it moves out from.
 

defiant007

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You keep saying there are others but as yet have not named ANY. And as far as I am aware, second life is not a game, it's a reality simulator for individuals who have an aversion to real life.
 

sd11

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You keep saying there are others but as yet have not named ANY. And as far as I am aware, second life is not a game, it's a reality simulator for individuals who have an aversion to real life.

I name one and then you shift the goal posts, logical fallicy.
 

defiant007

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The fallacy begins and ends with your arguments, second life is not a game. Name a GAME. :rolleyes:
 

Gorankar

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I name one and then you shift the goal posts, logical fallicy.

The only one you named was Second Life, which could either be classified as an mmo or some sort of giant chat room with 3d avatars you can move around and buy stuff with. In truth not even sure I would consider it a game. Anyhow, the goal post was FPS, it has not moved.

.
And there have been some large scale FPS games with subscriptions before.... just only on the PC, as always, the land where this sort of thing starts.

I know of two, mmo/fps hybrids. ABP, which hardly even launched, and was later rebooted as free to play, and Global Agenda with it's near empty servers. They both failed miserably, and more importantly, both came well after Xbox Live and the Oblivion horse armor on the 360.
You are the one that claiming it all started on the PC.

I don't really care where it started or who it was that started it. I just want it to stop.
If these dev/pubs want me to shell out $60, I want the whole game. Not 1/3 of it.
They don't want to provide me with dedicated servers and mod tools for a MP game, then they can do without my money. On a MP game they will not even get bargain bin money from me. Since the game is already played out by the time it hits the reasonable price zone, and games without mod tools and dedicated servers tend not to last once the dev/pub decides it is time for you to buy the next installment.
 

sd11

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bickering aside (and 2 life is a game, you might not define it as one but most do, then again this is a "if it doesn't raple tri SLI it's not a game" forum)

I don't really care where it started or who it was that started it. I just want it to stop.

Kinda agree, but 50 a year, or even a month isn't going to make a dent or change shit for me. Plus the cost of making a game has gone up, thanks to hardware and "moar gfx moar gfx moar gfx break sli" fanatics, so they do need to charge more.

If these dev/pubs want me to shell out $60, I want the whole game. Not 1/3 of it.

I'd agree, but we work in a conservative free market. Corporations rule, buyers can suck a dick. Free market = you pay what they ask. Don't want it, don't buy it. Free fucking market.
 

CryingGod

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The unfortunate thing is the CoD fanboys will lap the shit out of this not thinking long term.

If they were thinking long term, they would see they would be saving money most likely, 45 dollars in map packs, plus whatever else they release. That would easily be over 50 dollars. So yeah, your statement is confusing.
 

sd11

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If they were thinking long term, they would see they would be saving money most likely, 45 dollars in map packs, plus whatever else they release. That would easily be over 50 dollars. So yeah, your statement is confusing.

Translate all PC gamer posts as you would a womans "what, I am not the loved and the only thing that matters, what things are not going my way, rage, rage rage" and it makes sense. They are PC gamers.
 

Godmachine

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Paranoia? Sad reality?

Exactly what people making a big deal out of this are. I don't like the idea of "Elite" nor do I think its worthwhile to subscribe but if someone else wants to support Bobby Kotick's new Myspace venture then that's there business. I don't see this becoming a huge trend with every huge game that gets released so I'm not worried about it.
 

shansoft

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Translate all PC gamer posts as you would a womans "what, I am not the loved and the only thing that matters, what things are not going my way, rage, rage rage" and it makes sense. They are PC gamers.

GIVE ME A SINGLE GAME THAT IS FPS AND CHARGE LIKE COD..

GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE OR JUST STOP ...PLEASE...
 

lilbabycat

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I don't see this becoming a huge trend with every huge game that gets released so I'm not worried about it.

Yeah I remember ~5? 7? years ago when I made the same arguments against DLC, and people said "it won't catch on" "I'm not worried about it".
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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I have not bought any of these games and what this is going to do for gamers on a budget is

a. drive them out of gaming

or

b. send them to the indie route

oh and LMAO to the people saying it won't catch on.....lol all this crap is known as a "Revenue Stream".....and it will catch on........people by avatar clothing and that has ZERO value....
 

defiant007

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Yeah I remember ~5? 7? years ago when I made the same arguments against DLC, and people said "it won't catch on" "I'm not worried about it".

Pretty much.

"You don't need to buy horse armor, no one is making you buy it...it won't catch on"

Couple of years later...

"You don't need to buy costume packs and extra vehicles, no one is making you buy it...it won't catch on"

Couple of years later...

"You don't need to buy overpriced map packs, no one is making you buy it...it won't catch on"

Couple of years later...

"You don't need to subscribe to monthly DLC, no one is making you buy it...it won't catch on"

5 years in the future...

"You don't need to pay a monthly subscription fee to play that non-mmo game, no one is making you rent it...it won't catch on"

10 years in the future...

"Does anyone remember back in the day when we used to own the games we paid for rather than just renting and streaming them from publishers? /crickets"
 

Tigerblade

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We are talking video games not our 401k investments.

Don't have a problem with sarcasm but if/when this proves to be a money spinner and all the other big online gaming IP dev's want a slice of the pie will you still be flippant?

I'm sure you understood the point really tho.....
 

tuaarita

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This is easy to counter. Do. Not. Buy. Activision. Games. Ever. Too bad nobody seems to have that kind of restraint.
 

Climber

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This is easy to counter. Do. Not. Buy. Activision. Games. Ever. Too bad nobody seems to have that kind of restraint.

Never going to happen sadly enough. Been a quite a few of us preaching this for years and they just keep selling more and more copies and spreading this shit to more and more franchises. Welcome to the future of gaming. :mad:
 

Savi

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im glad i still play mostly single player games

and my multiplayer games is just wow and soon to be kotor
 

Liqq

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This is easy to counter. Do. Not. Buy. Activision. Games. Ever. Too bad nobody seems to have that kind of restraint.

/raises hand

I only buy maybe one to 3 games a year now, unless it is on some crazy sale.
 

Shalafi

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bickering aside (and 2 life is a game, you might not define it as one but most do, then again this is a "if it doesn't raple tri SLI it's not a game" forum)



Kinda agree, but 50 a year, or even a month isn't going to make a dent or change shit for me. Plus the cost of making a game has gone up, thanks to hardware and "moar gfx moar gfx moar gfx break sli" fanatics, so they do need to charge more.



I'd agree, but we work in a conservative free market. Corporations rule, buyers can suck a dick. Free market = you pay what they ask. Don't want it, don't buy it. Free fucking market.

You are wrong, the cost of making a game has NOT gone up.

They spent 50 million supposedly making MW2, and they spent 200 million in ADVERTISING on it

it sold over a billion dollars worth.
 

Tudz

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This is easy to counter. Do. Not. Buy. Activision. Games. Ever. Too bad nobody seems to have that kind of restraint.

I haven't bought a COD since WAW. I just dont feel the need to troll everywhere about it and insult those who do buy it.

If you dont like it, dont buy it, its that simple. If you dont give a fuck and enjoy the game, buy it.
 

Void

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You are wrong, the cost of making a game has NOT gone up.
So the people who are making BF3, or any other modern game for that matter, are making the same money that those who made the original Pac-Man made? :D
 

Q-BZ

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Pretty much.

"You don't need to buy horse armor, no one is making you buy it...it won't catch on"

Couple of years later...

"You don't need to buy costume packs and extra vehicles, no one is making you buy it...it won't catch on"

Couple of years later...

"You don't need to buy overpriced map packs, no one is making you buy it...it won't catch on"

Couple of years later...

"You don't need to subscribe to monthly DLC, no one is making you buy it...it won't catch on"

5 years in the future...

"You don't need to pay a monthly subscription fee to play that non-mmo game, no one is making you rent it...it won't catch on"

10 years in the future...

"Does anyone remember back in the day when we used to own the games we paid for rather than just renting and streaming them from publishers? /crickets"

Exactly.

All good examples of why I simply can't share the optimism of some others on this subject.

I maintain: I see enough of a trend going here that I have this sinking feeling I'll be out of gaming or close to it probably by the end of the decade.
 
D

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You know game developers actually make more money off the pc now than consoles. The consoles cost $60 because of licensing fees(I know for xbox MS gets a specific amount of money on each game). But on pc there is no fucking licensing to pay, they are just ripping us off. I do still buy games and all because I like to have fun instead of being an angry person sitting in front of my screen(the comic in this thread or the other one was great) but still don't say developing costs have gone up because they haven't, at least not enough to justify a $10specific increase.
 

4saken

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You know game developers actually make more money off the pc now than consoles. The consoles cost $60 because of licensing fees(I know for xbox MS gets a specific amount of money on each game). But on pc there is no fucking licensing to pay, they are just ripping us off. I do still buy games and all because I like to have fun instead of being an angry person sitting in front of my screen(the comic in this thread or the other one was great) but still don't say developing costs have gone up because they haven't, at least not enough to justify a $10specific increase.

again so many forget that the PC started the 60$ pricing trend for games. Not the consoles.
 
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Deleted whining member 223597

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again so many forget that the PC started the 60$ pricing trend for games. Not the consoles.

What? Console games started with $60 when they first came out(actually the first consoles "cartridges" cost around $70) so instead of just spewing bullshit come back here with some evidence.
 

Tudz

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I maintain: I see enough of a trend going here that I have this sinking feeling I'll be out of gaming or close to it probably by the end of the decade.

Honestly, it doesn't phase me. If gaming reaches the point where I no longer wish to do it because of shit like DRM, paid subscriptions, forced cloud gaming, etc, I'll just stop gaming and really I couldn't care less. Gaming for me is a hobby but primarily its a form of entertainment, when it ceases to be entertaining due to all the shit in it, I'll find another form of entertainment that doesn't cause me so much grief.
 

lilbabycat

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again so many forget that the PC started the 60$ pricing trend for games. Not the consoles.

You're funny. In that you take closed examples that are completely out of the context of the discussion and use them as irrefutable truth. You know this, and beat around the bush of actually name dropping the titles you are referencing.

Sure, there were lots of $60 titles, such as the beginning of the CD era. CD's still costed a higher amount than floppies, so for ~1 year we saw titles at a $60 price mark. They shortly after dropped back down to the $50 price mark. At the same time, we had similar price fluctuations from cartridge titles. Those price increases were also directed linked to the cost of the media. Games like FF6 (FF3 usa) needed extra memory to fit the game, thus the $70! price at release. Those prices also slowly fell back down to the $50 mark. Games today haven't increased with inflation as the # of sales vs development cost have continued to balance out in favor of the developer. A 1 million seller back then sells 5 million today, while the production costs are more like 3x the cost. The gap widens with all those sales. You cover production costs then it's all profit.

Then there are MMO's, which back in the day, actually had frequent updates to justify the subscription costs. You would literally see GM's on a daily basis, helping players, banning people, doing random world events, etc etc.

DLC simply did not exist in the form it does today. PR spin was virtually non existent in the Quake era. John Carmack would post in his .plan and we'd read press releases every few months. Everything was open and honest, people like him would simply post on whatever popular forum sprouted up, and tell people exactly what was going on with game development. They'd post their own little projects/custom maps/Total Conversions on these same sites. They had a passion for their games, they PLAYED their games.

Do you even remember those days?
 

fochkoph

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Not buying into the COD franchise years ago is probably one of the best decisions I've ever made.
 
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