MW2, No Dedicated Servers, PB, 9v9 limit, leaning, etc etc

grendel240sx

Limp Gawd
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It''s bad enough that you keep insulting a gaming company, and the good people that work for it, but now you're insulting the customers, and fellow gamers, too...........why don't you bugger off.

.

Oh yes, IW are great people. IWnet was to boost gameplay, not a money grab. Not at all.
 

PrincessFrosty

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It''s bad enough that you keep insulting a gaming company, and the good people that work for it, but now you're insulting the customers, and fellow gamers, too...........why don't you bugger off.

.

I've not insulted anyone.

Gamers said over and over again no dedicated servers will lead to problems, 180,000+ people signed a petition to have dedicated servers brought back. IW ignore it, release anyway and now cheaters are just wandering around unopposed spoiling peoples fun.

This is no big secret we all knew this would happen, sigh...
 

Riftsaw

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I'm sorry but I'm sure everyone knows that internet petitions are worth jack shit. The president and all the members of congress AND the senate could've signed it and it would have accomplished NOTHING.

Anyway, I've seen quite a few boycotters acting like douchebags(not just here, all around) and thus many people went out to buy the game just to spite the boycott. If there was mutual respect all around(I.E. I won't question your reasons for boycotting/I won't question your reasons for buying) maybe things would've gone a bit smoother.

But of course that can't possibly happen with the internet. Ever.
 

grendel240sx

Limp Gawd
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People actually bought the PC version just to spite the PC boycott?

That's super silly. If there was a financial Darwin award they would have a good chance to win.
 
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modernwarfare3indevelop.png


Wodern Marfare :p
Anyways...

I'm pretty sure IW isn't going to do anything about this. Also, if pirates have (if) found a way to play online, that would mean some kind of dedicated server, right? Or will?
 

Riftsaw

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People actually bought the PC version just to spite the PC boycott?

That's super silly. If there was a financial Darwin award they would have a good chance to win.

You'd be surprised.

At one point during the L4D2 boycott I was entertaining the idea of buying 2 copies and gifting one to the head of the boycott group just to spite them. Oh and I was going to make a hugeass access database and group showing how many of the 40k who were part of the group had L4D2(non-demo) playtime on their steam accounts after the game released.

About 5 minutes of thinking on the idea brought about a sudden realization: "Why do I give a shit? If they succeed I get more, if they don't it doesn't hurt me at all."

And thus I stopped heckling game boycotters, unless they were douchebags.
 

Riftsaw

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As I'm not exactly sure how that works, explain please. I know it's a different setup, but in what way?

I'm intrigued about this as well. Wouldn't they have to get the game to not try and contact IWnet servers and instead contact the fake server?

How're they gonna do that without an ingame console to work with?
 

grendel240sx

Limp Gawd
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You'd be surprised.

At one point during the L4D2 boycott I was entertaining the idea of buying 2 copies and gifting one to the head of the boycott group just to spite them. Oh and I was going to make a hugeass access database and group showing how many of the 40k who were part of the group had L4D2(non-demo) playtime on their steam accounts after the game released.

About 5 minutes of thinking on the idea brought about a sudden realization: "Why do I give a shit? If they succeed I get more, if they don't it doesn't hurt me at all."

And thus I stopped heckling game boycotters, unless they were douchebags.

That would have been pretty awesome.

Even with how bad IW treated PC players with this game, if they put out a patch allowing dedicated servers and custom maps, I'd buy it immediately. I'm sure a lot of other people who signed the petition would.

Of the people who bought the PC copy, I wonder how many will tolerate the laggy connections long enough to care about DLC when it rolls out. I wonder how much money IW will really make off this change in the long run.
 

shansoft

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That would have been pretty awesome.

Even with how bad IW treated PC players with this game, if they put out a patch allowing dedicated servers and custom maps, I'd buy it immediately. I'm sure a lot of other people who signed the petition would.

Of the people who bought the PC copy, I wonder how many will tolerate the laggy connections long enough to care about DLC when it rolls out. I wonder how much money IW will really make off this change in the long run.

no leaning is still a big No No..

look at the last AA title (FEAR 2) that removed lean and dedicated server, even they try to add more DLC for free, people are just not coming back.....

the game have fail.... MW2 is pretty much going to the same way...
 

thisperishedmin

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That would have been pretty awesome.

Even with how bad IW treated PC players with this game, if they put out a patch allowing dedicated servers and custom maps, I'd buy it immediately. I'm sure a lot of other people who signed the petition would.

didnt sign a petition, but i wont buy it otherwise. and i'm probably a "boycotting asshole" by most peoples standards.... add dedicated servers and im in. I'll even setup my home server to run a dedicated server.
 

aaronearles

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thought I would point out the graphics difference in mp, photobucket resized it but you can still get a pretty good idea.
compare.jpg
 

Retsam

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Pretty bad screenshot on the left. Comparing long distance detail to close up detail heh.

On a side note: Better graphics (lower fps) doesnt make a game better anyways. Cheers :p

(in this case it doesnt matter since both games have virtually the same gameplay)
 

aaronearles

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Yeah they were just where I spawned on a similarly colored map, fps is still smooth so I like the new look.
 

MrLonghair

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I see a bunch of people reporting stuttering or hiccups during the game, anyone of you get it or do you know anyone, and if you do, what graphics card?

So far I've counted on two places and found six, all with Nvidia cards (9XXX series).

e: Two saying they had trouble with the latest Nv drivers
 
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Plague_Injected

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I think the shot on the left actually looks pretty nice.

Honestly the game looks like it'd be a ton of fun but no dedicated servers means the best net I have access to won't cut it online and offline LAN doesn't seem possible right now. So no buy for me.
 

ihmcguinness

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^^ Now this gives me something to work with. It's honest. This gives me a fair gauge without fluff and BS on one extreme or blazing hateorade from the other extreme. Thank you. I look forward to the follow up. :)

So, to follow up, I've been playing the multiplayer all day. Frankly, it's great. Quick and easy to find matches. Great gameplay. A little slower paced than MW1, which actually means more tactics. Fantastic graphics. Big, varied maps. Fun perks/killstreaks.

In short, it's totally worth it. The no-dedicated-servers thing could be annoying for those who want to see the same people every time, or who want to keep playing one map all the time, but it's no big deal if you just want to PLAY. The one big drawback is the limitation on game size. 6 v 6 is ok most of the time (in fact its perfect), but sometimes you just want a big brawl.

Only thing I'm not sure about is that I was WAY better at MW1 multiplayer than I am at MW2.
 

aaronearles

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no stuttering here at all, according to fraps I averaged 81fps over the last hour of play on several maps.

I'm not sure I understand this:
no dedicated servers means the best net I have access to won't cut it online

Your connection isn't going to matter whether you're connecting to a dedicated or a p2p server, it's still the same amount of bandwidth, you may not be able to host, but the game simply wont choose you as the host.
 

Sent

Gawd
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He's saying that you are slave to whoever is hosting. The majority of dedicated servers are run on fat pipes well above the consumer level of internet.
 

siliconnerd

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He's saying that you are slave to whoever is hosting. The majority of dedicated servers are run on fat pipes well above the consumer level of internet.
Also, don't forget the ping advantage of a well peered datacenter vs consumer connections. From my Comcast connection, I get ~50ms ping time to google. From the local university, the ping time is less than 7ms. A good datacenter could have even better ping times. That means with zero other network traffic, hosting from my connection would probably add atleast 40ms and potentially much more.
 

Retsam

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+ the person who is the host, is going to ping close/around 0. So...possibly if someone has a really fast connection/upload speed, its possibly the game more often than not will choose this person to be the host, essentially meaning that person will ping 0 quite often, while others ping 100+. Basically, 1 person in the game will always have a much faster connection than anyone else. This is just one more example of why matchmaking from local clients is horrible.
 

Tbird87

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I kinda want to see what the response/registering feels like on the p2p. I'm not an uber elite pro, but I do get a little pissy going from a good 100tick to a 66 on css and dods. It's still very playable, but it just doesn't feel as snappy. Though it seems the majority of people don't notice the difference.
 

Dan_D

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+ the person who is the host, is going to ping close/around 0. So...possibly if someone has a really fast connection/upload speed, its possibly the game more often than not will choose this person to be the host, essentially meaning that person will ping 0 quite often, while others ping 100+. Basically, 1 person in the game will always have a much faster connection than anyone else. This is just one more example of why matchmaking from local clients is horrible.

Then you get into the whole "host migration" issue and the fact that the matchmaking system doesn't support nearly as many players. There is no way that the matchmaking system works nearly as well as dedicated servers. Infinity Ward fucked up.
 

Plague_Injected

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Your connection isn't going to matter whether you're connecting to a dedicated or a p2p server, it's still the same amount of bandwidth, you may not be able to host, but the game simply wont choose you as the host.

When I'm playing online on the 360, matchmaking frequently puts me in matches with people in other countries, which results in me lagging really badly - I'm not talking slight delays in firing, I'm talking completely unplayable. That problem can be avoided somewhat by playing at certain times of the day when more people in my area are likely to be online, but they still need to have good connections, which are not as common as they could be due to decent broadband still being expensive when compared to that of other countries.

This is why I like at least being able to select what game I'm able to jump into when I can see what kind of ping each has. If there aren't any good games up, I can just go do something else and check again later. I don't need to suffer through a few games looking like the noob of all noobs and having my kill ratio ruined while I hope matchmaking won't put me in with Koreans or Americans. I understand this may be possible with private matches but I'd still have to go public to find people to play with privately.

Some of the earlier 360 games (eg Gears of War) had options like Quick Match (matchmaking), Ranked Match (choose from a small list of available ranked match games) and Player Match (small list of unranked match games), so matchmaking and choice in game need not be mutually exclusive in P2P multiplayer.

I can understand some people not having any lag issues if you're being put in games with people in your area and with good connections, but for those of us in countries with less-than-ideal Internet there are serious concerns. It is really the wrong time for developers to be forcing P2P connections or ditching offline LAN when gaming is booming in countries (like Australia) where broadband hasn't caught up with the big gaming markets.
 
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aFive

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Pretty bad screenshot on the left. Comparing long distance detail to close up detail heh.

On a side note: Better graphics (lower fps) doesnt make a game better anyways. Cheers :p

(in this case it doesnt matter since both games have virtually the same gameplay)

I think it looks fantastic. The game feels great and runs great, guns feel amazing too. If only we would get dedicated servers patch...
 

grendel240sx

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I just tried out the MP on 360. It's ok, but it's so frustrating. Easy easy kills that I would have on PC I totally botch. Damn sticks, I hate them.

Not even going to bother with SP, 2 hrs of MP reminded me how frustrating console FPS are.
 

Markdek

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He's saying that you are slave to whoever is hosting. The majority of dedicated servers are run on fat pipes well above the consumer level of internet.

Well, this is not always true.....decicated lines, like T1 are NOT faster......they are guaranteed to be consistent. My Comcast connection at home is way way faster than my work connection (download). Upload, they tend to be closer.

.
 

sbtim

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most people have crap internet connections.

sure you can get 25/15 or 25/25 in big cities, but the guy playing from some log cabin in the alaskan wilderness probably can't host games that well
 

jeremyshaw

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most people have crap internet connections.

sure you can get 25/15 or 25/25 in big cities, but the guy playing from some log cabin in the alaskan wilderness probably can't host games that well

so he will never be chosen.

the problem is: whomever has a beast connection, will nearly always get host.

Host has 0ms lag advantage.

He can lag out others, or just start inducing it in a variaty of ways (logbot!) to cheat.
Without cheating.
 

sbtim

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well you better hope that someone has a beast connection in your game

i cant see how most peoples internet is fast enough to host a game
 

jeremyshaw

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well you better hope that someone has a beast connection in your game

i cant see how most peoples internet is fast enough to host a game

Oh they will be. It 6v6, remember?

9v9 if you want to go into a lagfest.
 

Markdek

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Host has 0ms lag advantage.

First, the "hosting" option has been around in a lot of games way before MW2. Second, do you know for sure that the host has 0ms lag in MW2? I believe I've hosted at least a couple games and I did not notice this. Is there a way this can be measured? Where did you get your information on the MW2 coding. And let's talk about the concept of "advantage"...come on, gamers who play on decicated servers don't like "advantages"....you must be kidding. The competitive gaming community loves advantages, it seeks them out, with a passion. I've gotten into decicated server COD games where someone has blown away and wreaked the whole game w/ some kind of advantage hack...and it sucked.

.
 

jeremyshaw

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First, the "hosting" option has been around in a lot of games way before MW2. Second, do you know for sure that the host has 0ms lag in MW2? I believe I've hosted at least a couple games and I did not notice this. Is there a way this can be measured? Where did you get your information on the MW2 coding.

.

It cannot be numerically qualtified anymore. They've replaced the numerical readouts with "bars"

Just note:

If you seem to need less bullets to kill in some rounds... then you are host.
0ms because you are the actual server.

EDIT:
And dedicated hosts have also been around. They are basically the onlr real way to ensure everybody has roughly the same lag, depending on individual connections.
The other meathod is to artificially force lag onto other people.
 

Markdek

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Yeah, it's possible, but I don't know for sure, that it played better for me as a host....not sure.
 

jeremyshaw

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I have only dabbled into SpecOps mode for MP. I like it so far, but no too much.

I guess I'll know once I clear all of Alpha at 3stars each :D
 
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