MSI Twin Frozr II fans not spinning.

Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
765
So it took me a while to notice this because I don't play a lot of 3D games on this old 560 Ti I had laying around, but I noticed that it's sitting around 68 degrees at idle doing normal desktop stuff and can spike to 80 degrees when watching YouTube videos. I checked GPU-Z, and found the Fan RPM was 0, so I looked at the actual fans... they really weren't spinning at all, so apparently the only thing keeping my GPU from dying has been thermal throttling, lack of interest in gaming on it, and cooling via the heatsink and case fans. I don't have any idea how long it's been like this.

This is the card model:
https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/N560GTXTi_Twin_Frozr_IIOC/Specification

Is there a way to fix a video card when it gets to this point? I tried spinning the fans with my fingers and they don't seem to be obviously stuck or anything. They just don't spin, even though the card itself seems to work fine. I mean, do I replace them, lubricate them etc? I feel like I don't have much to lose by trying since it's such an old card, and any card I got as a replacement would be inferior at this point. I would like to keep it going so I don't have to blow actual money on a GT 710 or something, since I need an nVidia GPU for OpenIndiana to work properly. It would still be nice to continue having something better than a GT 710 on this machine, so repairing my GTX 560 Ti looks like an attractive option. Besides, I might have to repair a GPU that's a lot more useful than this one in the future to keep it going, so this is probably a good time to learn.
 
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LZ_Xray

Limp Gawd
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Mar 25, 2013
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283
With no fans spinning at all, first place to check is the power connection for the fans on the pcb to see if that plug come loose.
 

vegeta535

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You can just zip tie some case fans to it if you want to do it on the cheap. Take the old fans out if you are comfortable trying to do that so you could get better air flow from the case fan.
 

Starfalcon

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I had a 980Ti that had one fan fall off its hub while running, turns out second fan was locked up and only one was spinning. I just ended up pulling the fans off it and typing the number into amazon. Found a bunch of people selling the exact fan set of all three set up with the exact wiring as my card. Repasted the card and installed the new fans and card runs good as new.
 

RazorWind

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Joined
Feb 11, 2001
Messages
3,920
So it took me a while to notice this because I don't play a lot of 3D games on this old 560 Ti I had laying around, but I noticed that it's sitting around 68 degrees at idle doing normal desktop stuff and can spike to 80 degrees when watching YouTube videos. I checked GPU-Z, and found the Fan RPM was 0, so I looked at the actual fans... they really weren't spinning at all, so apparently the only thing keeping my GPU from dying has been thermal throttling, lack of interest in gaming on it, and cooling via the heatsink and case fans. I don't have any idea how long it's been like this.

This is the card model:
https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/N560GTXTi_Twin_Frozr_IIOC/Specification

Is there a way to fix a video card when it gets to this point? I tried spinning the fans with my fingers and they don't seem to be obviously stuck or anything. They just don't spin, even though the card itself seems to work fine. I mean, do I replace them, lubricate them etc? I feel like I don't have much to lose by trying since it's such an old card, and any card I got as a replacement would be inferior at this point. I would like to keep it going so I don't have to blow actual money on a GT 710 or something, since I need an nVidia GPU for OpenIndiana to work properly. It would still be nice to continue having something better than a GT 710 on this machine, so repairing my GTX 560 Ti looks like an attractive option. Besides, I might have to repair a GPU that's a lot more useful than this one in the future to keep it going, so this is probably a good time to learn.
Are you sure that the fans don't just stop in order to make the card be "silent?"

What happens if you set a fan profile that makes them always spin with Precision or Afterburner?

Failing that, I'd probably try to find some replacement fans. If you remove the fans themselves from the heatsink assembly (may have to remove it from the board), and then search for their part number on ebay or Aliexpress, you may be able to find a replacement fan/wiring harness assembly. I know for sure you can find them for a lot of the more common Radeon cards.

Edit: Maybe this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1146598279...iseUnbiasedWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851
 

pendragon1

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Messages
27,199
ddu and reinstall. if still not spinning, use AB to set them and see if it works. if they are dead, you can usually get to the screw in between the fan blades to pop them off and find the part #. lots of them still out there and are usually ~$20.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
765
Are you sure that the fans don't just stop in order to make the card be "silent?"

What happens if you set a fan profile that makes them always spin with Precision or Afterburner?

Failing that, I'd probably try to find some replacement fans. If you remove the fans themselves from the heatsink assembly (may have to remove it from the board), and then search for their part number on ebay or Aliexpress, you may be able to find a replacement fan/wiring harness assembly. I know for sure you can find them for a lot of the more common Radeon cards.

Edit: Maybe this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114659827975?_trkparms=aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=20201210111314&meid=741ca26efb9e4704bb5a8fa36f312a74&pid=101195&rk=3&rkt=12&mehot=lo&sd=293542418024&itm=114659827975&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv9PairwiseUnbiasedWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851

Yeah, the first thing I tried was setting the fans to 100% in AfterBurner, and also using it to set the GPU and memory clock as low as they would go, only to find they were already being throttled lower than I could set them manually anyway. I'm pretty sure the aggressive thermal throttling and that big old heatsink are all that's been keeping this card alive. Fans didn't spin.

Thanks for the link. I was kind of wondering whether I should trust those cheap parts from China on eBay or not when sourcing a way to repair, but it looks like that should be the same brand of fan I already have in the card. Probably the real deal based on the reviews, too. I guess I'm buying the parts and doing this after all. I do have a tube of Noctua thermal paste from a recent PC build lying around that's not used up yet, so I have something to apply if I wind up having to take the heatsink off to get to the fans. Never done that before, but I imagine this is pretty much the same deal as taking a cooler off a CPU and reapplying paste? YouTube videos of people taking their card apart kind of look like a second CPU on a card, with all those VRMs surrounding a huge die. Vaguely reminds me of what those old Slot 1 cards might look like today if they were still using slots for CPUs.
 

pendragon1

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Messages
27,199
Yeah, the first thing I tried was setting the fans to 100% in AfterBurner, and also using it to set the GPU and memory clock as low as they would go, only to find they were already being throttled lower than I could set them manually anyway. I'm pretty sure the aggressive thermal throttling and that big old heatsink are all that's been keeping this card alive. Fans didn't spin.

Thanks for the link. I was kind of wondering whether I should trust those cheap parts from China on eBay or not when sourcing a way to repair, but it looks like that should be the same brand of fan I already have in the card. Probably the real deal based on the reviews, too. I guess I'm buying the parts and doing this after all. I do have a tube of Noctua thermal paste from a recent PC build lying around that's not used up yet, so I have something to apply if I wind up having to take the heatsink off to get to the fans. Never done that before, but I imagine this is pretty much the same deal as taking a cooler off a CPU and reapplying paste? YouTube videos of people taking their card apart kind of look like a second CPU on a card, with all those VRMs surrounding a huge die. Vaguely reminds me of what those old Slot 1 cards might look like today if they were still using slots for CPUs.
it this is the right card, looks like you do have to take the whole thing off and then these screws should get the shroud off. then there are 3 little screws for each fan.

1619219049975.png
1619219096525.png
 

maro

Gawd
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Aug 27, 2006
Messages
653
Twin Frozr's of this generation (and the 660Ti I have) are notorious for this. Something degrades in those fans to the point they no longer spin. You may be able to compensate by cranking up the fan profile as previously mentioned but at some point they just wont spin. Once the fans are removed you can search ebay for the part number on them. I did this and got them a few weeks later from Shanghai China. Don't worry too much about the chinese parts - it's probably the same company that made them in the first place. Mine looked indentical and are working great... I imagine they too will degrade but by then the thing will be 10+ years old and probably lucky windows still supports it.
also zip tie some small fans to it and power via 4 pin from PSU works on the cheap as also previously mentioned. IIRC the fans from China were about $15 shipped so they werent expensive either.
 

RazorWind

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Joined
Feb 11, 2001
Messages
3,920
Yeah, the first thing I tried was setting the fans to 100% in AfterBurner, and also using it to set the GPU and memory clock as low as they would go, only to find they were already being throttled lower than I could set them manually anyway. I'm pretty sure the aggressive thermal throttling and that big old heatsink are all that's been keeping this card alive. Fans didn't spin.

Thanks for the link. I was kind of wondering whether I should trust those cheap parts from China on eBay or not when sourcing a way to repair, but it looks like that should be the same brand of fan I already have in the card. Probably the real deal based on the reviews, too. I guess I'm buying the parts and doing this after all. I do have a tube of Noctua thermal paste from a recent PC build lying around that's not used up yet, so I have something to apply if I wind up having to take the heatsink off to get to the fans. Never done that before, but I imagine this is pretty much the same deal as taking a cooler off a CPU and reapplying paste? YouTube videos of people taking their card apart kind of look like a second CPU on a card, with all those VRMs surrounding a huge die. Vaguely reminds me of what those old Slot 1 cards might look like today if they were still using slots for CPUs.

As Pendragon1 mentioned, it appears you may not actually need to remove the heatsink from the board to change the fans. You stick a screwdriver between the blades to remove the 3 screws for each fan, and then fish the cable out of the shroud. If you do remove the heatsink, it's not really a hard process, but do be careful with the thermal pads. By this point, they're likely dried out and brittle, or very easy to tear.

If you happen to be local to me in Austin, I'd be happy to do it for you, if you want to bring me the card.
 

maro

Gawd
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
653
Here is the card shortly after I got it. It's a 660Ti but yours should be similar. IIRC it was not necessary to remove the VRM heatsink and risk damaging the thermal pads. Shroud and heatsink remove relatively easily. Apologies for the mediocre pics but should give you the gist of it.
 

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doubletake

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Something I recommend is to always have an adapter cable on hand for the mini 4pin connector that GPUs use, so that you can always slap on some backup fans should the stock ones on a GPU die; that way, you aren't left with a card with heavily neutered cooling capacity while you source actual replacements.
 

Krenum

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I'd say screw it and zip ties some Noctua's to it. You'll get better thermals too!
 
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Well, I got the fans. However, I really had a terrible time with this process and I'm amazed I didn't brick my card. I'm actually not even confident that the thermal pasting job I did worked out. But then again, I'm never really confident on my CPU thermal pasting either, and somehow my system doesn't die on me. In this case, the paste I had lying around is whatever came with my Noctua NH-D15, so it's probably good enough for the kind of temperatures a GPU sees.

Anyway, what I found out was that I can loosen the three screws holding in the fans without taking the shroud off, but the wire for the fans is routed through in a way that you can't get it loose at all without taking the shroud off, and you can't take the shroud off without taking the whole heatsink off because of how the screws are located. Even after I took the heatsink off, though, I was only able to get three screws out of the shroud and stripped the fourth screw in such a way that basically the only way I could get it off was to break the shroud. When I went to take the existing fans out, they were routed through in a really awful way. There was an opening where the fan connector was routed through a tiny opening in such a way that it was too narrow to get either the connector end or the fan end out of it intact. So I got frustrated and just cut the end off the original fan connector with a pair of scissors to get them off the heatsink. I have no idea how they got it in to start with unless they routed through bare wires and then spliced the fan connector onto them after the fact during manufacturing.

I managed to get the new fans in place without much issue, and cleaning off the old thermal paste and putting the leftover Noctua paste on seemed to go okay. I was able to line up the screw holes well enough, and I think I moved the heatsink around enough while lining up the holes to smear the thermal paste all over the GPU die, just like putting a tower cooler on a CPU. So now it's back in my case with just heatsink and fans, no shroud. I figure if a bare heatsink block is good enough for the CPU, the lack of a shroud shouldn't cause problems with the GPU either. I don't know how the people on YouTube manage to make this look so easy and painless, for me I felt like I was just narrowly managing to not destroy my graphics card getting the fans off.

The good news is, the new fans are spinning at about 2700 RPM. It seems like the GPU isn't throttling anymore, and is staying around 29 degrees at idle and under 65 at load. It seems to be okay, but I'm not sure if the temperatures would tell me if I did a good job covering the GPU die with thermal paste. If anything kills it at this point, I think it would be thermal paste not covering the entire die perfectly, maybe one edge missing or being too shallow, etc. I've heard that's a bigger deal with a GPU die than a CPU die, though this GPU die did appear to have a heatspreader on it and didn't look like a bare die. I'm... probably overthinking this, there's a reason why I practiced with a 10-year-old card. LOL.
 
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RazorWind

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You don't really have to smear the grease around on the die - it spreads out on its own once the heatsink is on, and it warms up. The temperatures you're seeing sound pretty normal, maybe even a bit low for a Fermi card (they were notorious for running hot), so it sounds like you did it right. Good job!
 
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pendragon1

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Well, I got the fans. However, I really had a terrible time with this process and I'm amazed I didn't brick my card. I'm actually not even confident that the thermal pasting job I did worked out. But then again, I'm never really confident on my CPU thermal pasting either, and somehow my system doesn't die on me. In this case, the paste I had lying around is whatever came with my Noctua NH-D15, so it's probably good enough for the kind of temperatures a GPU sees.

Anyway, what I found out was that I can loosen the three screws holding in the fans without taking the shroud off, but the wire for the fans is routed through in a way that you can't get it loose at all without taking the shroud off, and you can't take the shroud off without taking the whole heatsink off because of how the screws are located. Even after I took the heatsink off, though, I was only able to get three screws out of the shroud and stripped the fourth screw in such a way that basically the only way I could get it off was to break the shroud. When I went to take the existing fans out, they were routed through in a really awful way. There was an opening where the fan connector was routed through a tiny opening in such a way that it was too narrow to get either the connector end or the fan end out of it intact. So I got frustrated and just cut the end off the original fan connector with a pair of scissors to get them off the heatsink. I have no idea how they got it in to start with unless they routed through bare wires and then spliced the fan connector onto them after the fact during manufacturing.

I managed to get the new fans in place without much issue, and cleaning off the old thermal paste and putting the leftover Noctua paste on seemed to go okay. I was able to line up the screw holes well enough, and I think I moved the heatsink around enough while lining up the holes to smear the thermal paste all over the GPU die, just like putting a tower cooler on a CPU. So now it's back in my case with just heatsink and fans, no shroud. I figure if a bare heatsink block is good enough for the CPU, the lack of a shroud shouldn't cause problems with the GPU either. I don't know how the people on YouTube manage to make this look so easy and painless, for me I felt like I was just narrowly managing to not destroy my graphics card getting the fans off.

The good news is, the new fans are spinning at about 2700 RPM. It seems like the GPU isn't throttling anymore, and is staying around 29 degrees at idle and under 65 at load. It seems to be okay, but I'm not sure if the temperatures would tell me if I did a good job covering the GPU die with thermal paste. If anything kills it at this point, I think it would be thermal paste not covering the entire die perfectly, maybe one edge missing or being too shallow, etc. I've heard that's a bigger deal with a GPU die than a CPU die, though this GPU die did appear to have a heatspreader on it and didn't look like a bare die. I'm... probably overthinking this, there's a reason why I practiced with a 10-year-old card. LOL.
looks good to me, temps are good. and do worry so much about the paste. gob some on and let the excess squeeze out. you can have too much only too little.
 
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