MSI Reveals Ryzen 9000X3D 11-13% Faster Than 7000X3D, AMD Set to Dominate "Arrow Lake" in Gaming

erek

erek

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"Normally we'd expect bigger gen-on-gen gains for the 8-core part than the 16-core part, but the 16-core 9000X3D pulling ahead by that much over its predecessor hints at the possibility of AMD either giving it significantly higher clock speeds, or the rumor about AMD deploying both 3D V-cache on both its CCDs could be true after all. The 9950X3D could end up roughly on-par with the 9800X3D if this turns out to be true, given that the gaming performance delta between the 7800X3D and 7950X3D is roughly that much—2-3 percentage points. Intel earlier this week officially announced the Core Ultra 2-series desktop processors. As part of the announcement, the company put out some first-party gaming performance numbers, which put the top Core Ultra 9 285K either on-par with the Core i9-14900K, or faster by 2-3%, which means it should land behind even the 7950X3D in gaming performance, and AMD is set to dominate Intel in gaming performance with the 9000X3D series."

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Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/327613/...0x3d-amd-set-to-dominate-arrow-lake-in-gaming
 
I mean I can’t get any of the older x3D parts, so really only the 9800x3D is an option there for us who want it.
Which I begrudgingly do….
 
Lakados said:
I mean I can’t get any of the older x3D parts, so really only the 9800x3D is an option there for us who want it.
Which I begrudgingly do….
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Glad I've got both my 5800X3D and 5700X3D in my systems. They really do put it some crazy hard work in many games!
 
What I 'd be more interested in is whether a full zen 5c mobile apu with 3d cache would make sense for deck-alikes.

The theory being, of course, that it'd combine the best of low power with the added efficiency-value of the cache.
 
erek said:
but the 16-core 9000X3D pulling ahead by that much over its predecessor hints at the possibility of AMD either giving it significantly higher clock speeds, or the rumor about AMD deploying both 3D V-cache on both its CCDs could be true after all.
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The higher clock speeds is the option that makes the most sense. Of the two reviews that exist online of Far Cry 6 with the 7900X3D and 7950XD, one has them essentially equal and the other one has the 7950X3D being about 5% faster, suggesting core count plays little role in Far Cry 6 performance.
 
Potentially promising news, especially if they really did take a big step forward by having cache on both cores in the 9950X3D. If the rumor turns out to be true, aside from the typical performance gains of a new CPU, I have to wonder if the real world performance could be noticeably better in a number of cases thank to the 9000 series having symmetrical CCD cache layouts instead of all the various scheduling issues that had to be worked around in the previous asymmetrical ones?
 
RanceJustice said:
Potentially promising news, especially if they really did take a big step forward by having cache on both cores in the 9950X3D. If the rumor turns out to be true, aside from the typical performance gains of a new CPU, I have to wonder if the real world performance could be noticeably better in a number of cases thank to the 9000 series having symmetrical CCD cache layouts instead of all the various scheduling issues that had to be worked around in the previous asymmetrical ones?
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The asymmetrical cores only mattered in gaming where sensitivity to stuttering is very noticeable. The higher clock speeds on the single CCD that had no v-cache benefited productivity apps which didn't care about stutters caused by cache misses. Also with productivity apps, the cache misses involve a small amount of memory, which means crossing the slow Infinity Fabric isn't a big deal. Locking the primary game thread to one CCD prevented cache misses and thus the stuttering.

It looks like AMD has been able to redesign the cores and v-cache such that the limits on clock speeds are not as extreme as they were on the 7000X3D series, which will be a huge plus if true. This would mean the 9000X3D processors won't receive the same productivity penalty the 7000X3D processors did. This would also make it more conceivable that the 9950X3D will have v-caches on both CCDs since the productivity penalty won't be there, although this would also very likely push it well above 7950X3D prices given how expensive the v-cache is. It also remains to be seen if this would actually benefit gaming.... there is every possibility that cache misses will still cause stuttering due to the larger amounts of memory involved, once again requiring Xbox Game Bar or Project Lasso to lock the primary game thread down to a single CCD.
 
Cautiously optimistic. My 7800X3d is probably fine for awhile longer, so I can skip this generation (maybe).
A new/better GPU... yeah, if the price/performance is right
 
Lumpus said:
Cautiously optimistic. My 7800X3d is probably fine for awhile longer, so I can skip this generation (maybe).
A new/better GPU... yeah, if the price/performance is right
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Ya if your already on a 7800x3d I doubt its worth worrying about the upgrade for 10% CPU. In anything GPU bound its going to make zero difference.
If you bought into AM5 though and went with a standard X first gen. It seems like the new X3D chips are going to have a lot less if any productivity penalty.

Or if your stuck on a Intel machine burning itself up... I mean are you going to take a Intel downgrade, and brag about your power efficiency? AMD is probably going to get more Intel->AMD movement then AMD upgrade sales I imagine. Plenty of Intel RMA cheques waiting to be spent. lol
 

AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D 3D V-Cache CPU Specs Leak, Huge Base Clock Speed Uplift To 4.7 GHz & 120W TDP​

AMD's Ryzen 7 9800X3D 3D V-Cache CPU Specs Exposed Ahead of Launch: 4.7 GHz Base Clocks Make It Fastest Among The Ryzen 9000 Stack​


As per the specifications revealed in a MaxSun CPU support documentation for its motherboards based on the AM5 socket, the manufacturer confirms that the AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D will be a big upgrade over the existing offerings. The CPU is erroneously listed as the "Ryzen 9 9800X3D" but the official name should be Ryzen 7 9800X3D since the Ryzen 9 series covers the 12 and 16-core parts.

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-cpu-specs-leak-huge-base-clock-speed-4-7-ghz-120w-tdp/

AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D leak lists 4.7 GHz base clock and 120W TDP, confirmed by motherboard maker​


The details this time (MaxSun via VideoCardz) appear to confirm the CPU's name, which was widely expected anyway, but also its frequency, power limit or TDP as well as its cache amount. However, as it is the only 3D V-Cache model of the Ryzen 9000 series on the list, speculations are that we may only be getting the Ryzen 7 9800X3D in the first wave of the launch with the expected Ryzen 9 X3D models such as the Ryzen 9 9950X3D landing some time after.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antony...yzen-7-9800x3d-confirmed-but-theres-bad-news/

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryz...k-and-120w-tdp-confirmed-by-motherboard-maker

https://videocardz.com/newz/leaked-amd-invitation-hints-at-imminent-ryzen-9000x3d-announcement

https://videocardz.com/newz/gigabyt...nce-for-unannounced-ryzen-9000x3d-by-up-to-35

https://download.maxsun.com.cn:8443/mb/driver/CPU_support/AMD/AMD_AM5_MB_CPU_support_list.pdf
 
Left out the most important detail: 9800X3D boost clock is specced at 5.2 ghz as compared to 7800X3D's 5.0 ghz. Combined with 9700X vs 7700X comparisons, we can realistically expect a gain of just under 10% in most games.

96 mb total cache confirms a 64 v-cache, same as the 7800X3D.
 
Tsumi said:
Left out the most important detail: 9800X3D boost clock is specced at 5.2 ghz as compared to 7800X3D's 5.0 ghz. Combined with 9700X vs 7700X comparisons, we can realistically expect a gain of just under 10% in most games.

96 mb total cache confirms a 64 v-cache, same as the 7800X3D.
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to me the difference you can overclock it now. That to me is the reason to get it. Specially if you delid it....love to see what you can get with it.
 
Brackle said:
to me the difference you can overclock it now. That to me is the reason to get it. Specially if you delid it....love to see what you can get with it.
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Will be interesting to see what type of improvements it will have. Most recent Ryzens haven't been worth overclocking.
 
Wasn't it leaked that Arrow Lake won't be any faster than previous generation? At this point the 9800X3D is just competing with the 7800X3D.
 
I been waiting to see if I should get a 7800X3D or 9800X3D. I’m still on a 9700k, so realistically the 7800X3D would be a huge upgrade, but at this point I’m just waiting.
 
LukeTbk said:
Leak and intel official presentation that they did

INTEL-CORE-ULTRA-200S-200K-ARROW-LAKE-S_07-850x468.jpg
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Ya it will be nice people that really want intel and Nvidia GPUs won't be needing 1000 watt PSUs. If you were waiting to upgrade Intel->Intel though this is going to be pretty disappointing.
If the new X3Ds are impressive enough... and AMD maybe finds away to get their partners to ship well priced MOBOs AMD can continue to lay some real hurt on Intel marketshare.

I'm looking forward to third party reviews. Cause I'm pretty sure based on this. That AMD is still more power efficient. I mean if I'm reading this confusing chart right efficiency gains are all over the place. Big 100 watt differentials in some games.... barely any difference in others. Will be interesting to see what the reviewers that really drill down on power use have to say.
 
kac77 said:

AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU Benchmarks Leak Out: Up To 22% Faster In Geekbench Versus 7800X3D​

As for performance, the AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D scored 3305 points in single-core and 18,221 points in multi-core tests at Geekbench 6. This puts the single-core performance up to 22% faster than the 7800X3D and the multi-core performance up to 20% faster which is a strong uplift.
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I wont be upgrading my 7800X3D to this, but it makes me glad when I built my AM5 system (to upgrade my from my 6700K), knowing that I can expect a pretty good bump in performance when I put in whatever the last chip is for AM5 in this build. Might be able to squeeze a decade out of this system.
 
Yeah I’m going to be ordering one for sure now.
I just hope the board options don’t suck.
 
More coverage:

AMD Ryzen 9000X3D rumored to reverse the 3D stacking hierarchy — the L3 cache block allegedly sits below the CCDs​

News
By Hassam Nasir
published 23 hours ago
So that's where the higher clock speeds and better thermals stem from.

Hardware leaker HXL on X has clarified, to some extent, the architectural differences between the first and second generations and why AMD can achieve better thermals and higher clock speeds with Ryzen 9000X3D. It is claimed that AMD is reversing its 3D die-stacking structure, with the SRAM block now placed beneath the CCDs.

such a change was expected since Zen 5-based CCDs have a considerably smaller internal L3 block size than Zen 4. This meant that any potential external dies (through 3D stacking) would overlap with the CCDs and cause heat dissipation problems. High Yield's chip analysis indicated that a plausible solution was to use 2-Hi stacking of 3D cache, but AMD has surprised us all with a completely different approach.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...tm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter.com
 
Lakados said:
Yeah I’m going to be ordering one for sure now.
I just hope the board options don’t suck.
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Going to be waiting to see the details of the 9950X3D and wish it launched at the same time, as the 9800X3D. . As far as board options, I remember reading that there are some significant potential issues with the X870 (non-E) boards being more similar to old B650 tier ones in some ways, but I think the new X870E are okay. Of course, apparently 600 series AM5 boards,, especially high end X670E that had USB4 may be basically identical to X870E and will get firmware updates to support them, so that's another option.

Interesting that the 3D cache stacking is set up in a different layer system though. Still interested to see if the 9950X3D will have cache on both CCDs an how close the frequency will come to the standard 9950X
 
RanceJustice said:
Going to be waiting to see the details of the 9950X3D and wish it launched at the same time, as the 9800X3D. . As far as board options, I remember reading that there are some significant potential issues with the X870 (non-E) boards being more similar to old B650 tier ones in some ways, but I think the new X870E are okay. Of course, apparently 600 series AM5 boards,, especially high end X670E that had USB4 may be basically identical to X870E and will get firmware updates to support them, so that's another option.

Interesting that the 3D cache stacking is set up in a different layer system though. Still interested to see if the 9950X3D will have cache on both CCDs an how close the frequency will come to the standard 9950X
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I am happy to see them doing something different with the stacked cache, I know TSMC and AMD were having significant issues with the means they were doing it so they both knew something needed to change, the process was originally designed with mobile silicon in mind, so 7-15w devices, not 65-250w devices, the solder material and application process wasn't designed to handle those sorts of numbers.
 
In other news how much faster do you think a 9800x3d would be than a 9700x at 1440p with a 4080 super?

Part of me thinks that I would be bouncing off the GPU far more frequently than the CPU there, but the overkill part of my brain is telling that other part to sit down and shut up.
 
Lakados said:
In other news how much faster do you think a 9800x3d would be than a 9700x at 1440p with a 4080 super?

Part of me thinks that I would be bouncing off the GPU far more frequently than the CPU there, but the overkill part of my brain is telling that other part to sit down and shut up.
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In older but semi-modern games? 1440p and 4080 is a great mix, I would expect 0ver 200FPS in a lot of games.

In modern RTX titles, though, probably going to be GPU bottlenecked until the 50 series comes out.
 
zerogg said:
Do you use this tool? Is it worth it?
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Yes, and absolutely. Running all-core full load 4.7 on my 5800x.
Has this amazing process of having load-based and core count OC's. Takes forever to run, but due to it being very accurate and cautious. You'll get an undervolt AND a nice OC.

I've been using it for years.
 
alxlwson said:
Yes, and absolutely. Running all-core full load 4.7 on my 5800x.
Has this amazing process of having load-based and core count OC's. Takes forever to run, but due to it being very accurate and cautious. You'll get an undervolt AND a nice OC.

I've been using it for years.
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Awesome, I'll give it a go. I'm about to build a new rig, so perfect timing. Does it help with tweaking ram timings as well?
 
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