MSI GeForce RTX 2070 GAMING Z Performance Review @ [H]

sleepybp

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RTX 2070 is a 1440P Card.
At $500 to $600 (founders) for 2070, one would be smart to consider used gtx 1080 or 1070ti ($300-350 ebay).

All 3 of the above cards are great for 1440P gaming.
I would not be willing to spend $200 more dollars for +15% performance when all these cards provide excellent 1440P performance.
Understand some are uncomfortable buying used, but at this price difference I rolled the dice....
 

vjhawk

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RTX 2070 is actually worth buying. Seems to be about 15% faster than the GTX 1080. Am I getting it? Nope.

I game at 1440p so the 60+ FPS performance from the 1080 is already good enough for my usage. If I was on an older graphics card though yeah I'd consider the 2070.

RTX 2070 is the only reasonable value of the bunch. Oh and it seems like it will do 4k acceptably if that's what monitor you are using.

However, consider that a 1080 Ti is still faster than the 2070, since it's 30% faster than the 1080 on average, and is probably cheaper as well and you have to consider hmm is raytracing worth it?

Why 2070 vs 1080 Ti? Yes 2070 > 1080 but 1080 Ti > 2070 if you are going purely by rasterized FPS.
 

Dayaks

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RTX 2070 is actually worth buying. Seems to be about 15% faster than the GTX 1080. Am I getting it? Nope.

I game at 1440p so the 60+ FPS performance from the 1080 is already good enough for my usage. If I was on an older graphics card though yeah I'd consider the 2070.

RTX 2070 is the only reasonable value of the bunch. Oh and it seems like it will do 4k acceptably if that's what monitor you are using.

However, consider that a 1080 Ti is still faster than the 2070, since it's 30% faster than the 1080 on average, and is probably cheaper as well and you have to consider hmm is raytracing worth it?

Why 2070 vs 1080 Ti? Yes 2070 > 1080 but 1080 Ti > 2070 if you are going purely by rasterized FPS.
2070/2080/2080ti are all on about the same value line $$$/fps....
 

DejaWiz

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I can not stop to laugh my ass on the floor for al those literally dumb things you're trying to push. "Oh it's too expensive" "Oh it's mid range priced as premium" "Oh can you imagine the hit it would take". Seems to me only IdiotInCharge is using his brain.

The 2070 is basically a "refreshed" 1080 + Tensor Cores, DLSS and so on. Basically, what you seem to be unable to comprehend is that you get hardware from the past + hardware for the future in one package that still beats the previous generation card that was sitting on an upper tier.

Jesus is this that hard to comprehend? The hit it would take? Basically NONE! Cause they have the hardware implementation. Now think twice and imagine the hit that the 1080 Ti would take? It may well bring it down under the 2070 in frame rates.

Jeez...

Anyway, congrats Kyle. You proved again that [H]ard is the way to go.

x70 has ALWAYS been a mid-range line. And, historically, the newest gen x70 beats the previous x80, while maintaining pricing tiers. There is still a 2080 and 2080Ti, ya know. Seems nVidia all of a sudden expects top-tier x80 and x80Ti previous gen buyers to stick to the same price brackets they have shopped in, but "settle" for a lower-tier x70?

As far as performance and FPS goes, I was speaking towards the huge hit the latest RTX will (likely) take when actually rendering ray tracing...something the 10x0 and previous CAN'T do because it's not supported in hardware, so your point on their comparative price values is totally moot.
 

FrgMstr

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Taking to Brent this morning, after some needed rest, we are going to add 1080 Ti and 2080 results to the data we have there to give a more complete picture that some of you have asked for. Maybe 1070 too, but will are not sure about adding that
 

cjcox

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IMHO, like anything "new" these top end Turing cards are expensive.... but not like we haven't dealt with that before.

I'm thinking Nvidia wanted to do a "release" while AMD was sort of "down" (Vega).... kick them good, while they are down. Might not have been as good a kick as they wanted, but arguably, they didn't need to do it to begin with.

Perhaps it means the next "big step" got pushed out a ways.... not sure (maybe that whole 7nm/10nm EUV thing?)
 

Teenyman45

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Something I completely forgot to ask earlier. NVidia has been claiming that for 2080 and 2080ti cards, the GPUs for Founder's Editions are cherry picked to be the best of the batches (obviously excluding the real top chips reserved for workstation grade cards).

Will the same apply to the 2070 and onward down the 20X0 product stack?
 

psyclist

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Can we do an overclocked review as well? as most of us here are gonna squeeze these cards for all they are worth. Im just wondering what an opened up vega 64 looks like against the 2070 clocked, A decent V64 clocks around 1650-1700 core and 1100+ HBM, when undervolted and set to +50% powerlimit
 

DTabakov

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A colleague of mine reminded me something very important the seems we all forget. What about the Pascal chips they still have? Wasn't it reported that there were hundreds of thousands of those chips being returned to nVidia ?

The pricing in such case makes perfect sense in order for nV to be able to sell the older GPU's and once they clean up the house, the prices can normalize once again.

However, that being said the bigger die and the Turing cores sure can be the reason of this price increase.

Also guys, stop with the xx70 is a medium tier card. How about xx70 is the entry high end card? As I see it this is the case here.
 
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A colleague of mine reminded me something very important the seems we all forget. What about the Pascal chips they still have? Wasn't it reported that there were hundreds of thousands of those chips being returned to nVidia ?

The pricing in such case makes perfect sense in order for nV to be able to sell the older GPU's and once they clean up the house, the prices can normalize once again.

However, that being said the bigger die and the Turing cores sure can be the reason of this price increase.

Also guys, stop with the xx70 is a medium tier card. How about xx70 is the entry high end card? As I see it this is the case here.
xx70 is the entry high end card?? So the xx80's are the new xx80ti's?? Does that mean the new xx80ti's are the new TITANs? Ohh.. I forgot about the xx70ti's... Does that make the xx70ti's the mid-entry high end card??
 

IdiotInCharge

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The pricing in such case makes perfect sense in order for nV to be able to sell the older GPU's and once they clean up the house, the prices can normalize once again.
This has been one of my working theories, supported by the idea that Nvidia likes profit, so they don't want to lose on outstanding inventory given that their is no competitive incentive to do so when they are their only competition which supports higher 2000-series release prices, and that eventually they'll have to drop prices or start ceding volume, profit, and market share.
 

DTabakov

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x70 has ALWAYS been a mid-range line. And, historically, the newest gen x70 beats the previous x80, while maintaining pricing tiers. There is still a 2080 and 2080Ti, ya know. Seems nVidia all of a sudden expects top-tier x80 and x80Ti previous gen buyers to stick to the same price brackets they have shopped in, but "settle" for a lower-tier x70?

As far as performance and FPS goes, I was speaking towards the huge hit the latest RTX will (likely) take when actually rendering ray tracing...something the 10x0 and previous CAN'T do because it's not supported in hardware, so your point on their comparative price values is totally moot.
You are correct about thing dude, HAS ALWAYS BEEN. It very may well be the new standard, and looking and the pricing it kind of make sense. Titan X(P) was worth how much? 1,200$ how much is the 2080 Ti? Yeah, sounds about right.

Furthermore, read my post again about all those GPU's that are still available, why the heck they should cannibalize like that and throw GPU's at anyone when they have no real competition?

Furthermore, lower-tier? Seriously? Look at the hardware that this card has, tell me again what is the difference with the 1080? The die size is the same? Sure, Ray Tracing is MIA right now, but I believe that in the next year we will see loads of games being pushed with this plus DLSS. IAnd it's not all about the hardware, how about nVidia literally sending people helping implement all those new features? I do not see ray tracing support from AMD any time soon (as I don't see a decent GPU from them soon, which is too sad) the only oiption that I can see where RTX cards are a "stupid" choice is if Ray Tracing could be software pushed to be done by a CPU in which case you guessed it, we will need more expensive CPU's which I am not sure is that better of an option.

And then again, you have not seen any proof of 2070 sucking with Ray Tracing turned on and I highly doubt that nVidia will push this card in this price range if it does suck, I literally can not remember nVidia doing that dumb of a move, can you?
 

Brent_Justice

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R.E. those asking about power usage, I did look at system wattage while gaming.

MSI GeForce GTX 1080 GAMING X
Full Load - Around 324w max, in the lower 320's for the highest wattage in games, otherwise above 300 in the 310-315 region on average
Idle - 60w

MSI GeForce RTX 2070 GAMING Z
Full Load - Around 330w max, in the lower 320's for the highest wattage in games, otherwise above 300 in the 320 region on average
Idle - 59w

It seemed to me the MSI RTX 2070 card was always about 5-10W more than the MSI GTX 1080 card.

RX Vega 64 was way above 400W, around 420W while gaming, with some higher peaks above that.
 

sleepybp

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1070 is important to make direct successor comparison and not just assumptions based on how it perform vs 1070ti or 1080.. a direct comparison gen to gen always help.
I disagree with this comparison.
I could care less about 1070 vs 2070. Price/performance is primary focus for my GPU purchasing decisions and the 2070 price is most comparable to 1080 or almost 1080ti (when on sale).
 

Dayaks

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The main feature that was thrown down our throats, RTX cant even be tested.
What’s worse, that we can’t use RTX feautures yet or the closest competitor can’t compete even with 1/3 to 1/2 of the die inoperable? Hell the 2070 wallops Vega 64 in both power and performance. I hope AMD has been working on something amazing.

As per power. I would buy the highest power limit RTX card you can find. That’s been my advice since Gamescon.
 

Aireoth

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Redefine performance with our new next level RTX technology*

*RTX will no be available upon launch**

**RTX Technology available on the 7nm node shrink
 

sleepybp

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T
Shadow of the Tomb Raider running 30fps on 1080p, unless that has changed in the time I have heard about it.
The 30fps is with new features ray tracing.
New tech that developers will learn to improve on with time.

Bottom line to me though is ray tracing is cool tech, but too early and you should pick your gpu based on current price/fps it provides in non ray trace games.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Shadow of the Tomb Raider running 30fps on 1080p, unless that has changed in the time I have heard about it.
I've seen a very wide range of performance variation, from struggling at 1080p up to smooth at 4k, from developers with only weeks to get demos ready. I'm expecting both good performance in general and the ability to adjust level of ray tracing to suit particular situations.
 

Aireoth

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I've seen a very wide range of performance variation, from struggling at 1080p up to smooth at 4k, from developers with only weeks to get demos ready. I'm expecting both good performance in general and the ability to adjust level of ray tracing to suit particular situations.
You've said this many times, please provide sources of this wide range.
 

DejaWiz

Oracle of Unfortunate Truths
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You are correct about thing dude, HAS ALWAYS BEEN. It very may well be the new standard, and looking and the pricing it kind of make sense. Titan X(P) was worth how much? 1,200$ how much is the 2080 Ti? Yeah, sounds about right.

Furthermore, read my post again about all those GPU's that are still available, why the heck they should cannibalize like that and throw GPU's at anyone when they have no real competition?

Furthermore, lower-tier? Seriously? Look at the hardware that this card has, tell me again what is the difference with the 1080? The die size is the same? Sure, Ray Tracing is MIA right now, but I believe that in the next year we will see loads of games being pushed with this plus DLSS. IAnd it's not all about the hardware, how about nVidia literally sending people helping implement all those new features? I do not see ray tracing support from AMD any time soon (as I don't see a decent GPU from them soon, which is too sad) the only oiption that I can see where RTX cards are a "stupid" choice is if Ray Tracing could be software pushed to be done by a CPU in which case you guessed it, we will need more expensive CPU's which I am not sure is that better of an option.

And then again, you have not seen any proof of 2070 sucking with Ray Tracing turned on and I highly doubt that nVidia will push this card in this price range if it does suck, I literally can not remember nVidia doing that dumb of a move, can you?

Before anyone opens their throats for nVidia's dick and keeps shilling for them based on absolutely nothing, why don't we simply remain cautious as to why they are pricing a mid-tier GPU at previous upper-tier pricing, and wait for actual ray tracing tech to mature enough to determine if the much higher pricing is justified...the next gen GPU after this one should be out by then.
 

dgz

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You know, I did too. Always glad to be proved wrong. That said, I really hoped the card was more impressive.

Right now, I'm rocking a 970 for 1080p gaming, and there are games today don't run very well with much eye candy turned on. The 20x0 series seems like a bust for me, but maybe a used 1070 would make sense. Just scared of getting a coin-mining-scarred card.
Thank god we're not the ones making the actual calls around here :D
 

defaultluser

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It's not a scummy move. Kyle was delayed on his 2080 Ti review compared to other sites several ays, due to waiting for an official a to ship.

An once these benchmarks have leaked, the probability is high that NVIDIA will open e floodgates early

Excellent review, this was definitely the price-performance model we were waiting for.
And I was right. Nvidia wisely broke the release a day early (release WAS tomorrow).

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13431/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2070-founders-edition-review

You can all thanks out glorious leader for moving mountains :D
 
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IdiotInCharge

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Before anyone opens their throats for nVidia's dick and keeps shilling for them based on absolutely nothing
Someone's got their pubes in a twizzle!

We have performance numbers thanks to the [H], and we have the current market conditions. That's enough to understand why they might have made the decision to release where they have, and that's definitely more than 'absolutely nothing'.
 

FrgMstr

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But the official release date announced back at the RTX 1080 and 1080 Ti release was October 17th. I thought that was still on?
Fourth sentence of our review.

Introduction

HardOCP has an exclusive for you today. Since we have not signed NVIDIA's recent NDA, we are not being sourced RTX review cards by NVIDIA or its AIBs. We were however able to source a retail sample from overseas. The official embargo for the RTX 2070 expires Tuesday at 8am CDT. Since we are not held to NVIDIA's embargo we have a full RTX 2070 performance review for you today. We’ve got a custom retail-packed factory overclocked video card based on the new GeForce RTX 2070. We will be comparing the GeForce RTX 2070 with the GeForce GTX 1080 and Radeon RX Vega 64 video cards in eight games at 1440p and 4K. This is real-world game testing, using highest playable settings and apples-to-apples comparisons.
 

DejaWiz

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Someone's got their pubes in a twizzle!

We have performance numbers thanks to the [H], and we have the current market conditions. That's enough to understand why they might have made the decision to release where they have, and that's definitely more than 'absolutely nothing'.
Sorry, but I'm not accepting that as the sole reasons.

It's EXPECTED that a new gen outperforms the last gen...that's "nothing" new.

This series has been advertised as the first ray tracing capable GPU. But there's absolutely "nothing" for consumers to utilize it or even prove that the pricing is justified so, for me, I interpret nVidia's decision to price a new mid-tier x70 at previous upper-tier x80 pricing as nothing more than cashing in on a snake oil gimmick.

If you disagree, that's fine and dandy, more power to you and go forth and open your wallet while hoping that it has enough horsepower under the hood to actually utilize ray tracing at playable frame rates. I'm sceptical of that, therefore I simply don't see the value or justification for these launch prices.
 
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DTabakov

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Before anyone opens their throats for nVidia's dick and keeps shilling for them based on absolutely nothing, why don't we simply remain cautious as to why they are pricing a mid-tier GPU at previous upper-tier pricing, and wait for actual ray tracing tech to mature enough to determine if the much higher pricing is justified...the next gen GPU after this one should be out by then.
I almost laughed at your insult. I've got a nice 1080 and will probably skip this round and will wait the next 2 years until the 3xxx series come along. Except if I don't get a good offer, than who knows.

At the end of the day, I am using my brain and observations of the last couple of months. The fact that a card has a better performance for the same price as a previous one (remember 2x70 1x80 are only numbers that actually state nothing put out of a context) and it has a surplus of hardware that currently is not being used, makes this deal bad I don't know how exactly.

It's like you buying a newer car with little better specs of the previous model but with a a boost feature which will be unlocked when regulations allow it. Makes more sense now?
 
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