Except 1060 (not 1070) was ~980 and 1070 (not 1080) was ~>980ti, while 1080 was > 980ti. Similar to how 900 series stacked against 700. But now we see 2080 ~>1080ti and 2070 slightly > 1080. So only this time it moved one level with significant price increase. Many 1080 boost above 2000 out of the box and could potentially match out of the box 2070 btw.
Breaking a contract is simply a private matter, so no.. it is not breaking the law.That sentence doesn't even make sense. Law = legal. No one is saying anything criminal happened.
Breaking contracts is breaking the law.
The existence of a contract, of any kind, between the seller and Nvidia generally has no bearing on HardOCP as the buyer. A contract between two private entities is not on the same level as an actual law. As long as the seller didn't steal from NVidia and you aren't knowingly buying stolen goods, then NVidia's redress is with the seller.This presupposes that a contract is legal.
That is just a sign of the times changing. People want to stretch their dollar as far as it can go. They want much more for much less. Which isn't a bad thing at all but man has it created some cheap as all hell individuals lol. While the GPU is more expensive than it should be, its performance as displayed in this review justifies some of that price. We'll have to wait what role ray tracing & DLSS plays but looking at the two, I would easily go with a new RTX 2070 over a used GTX 1080. Especially since I only purchase new products these days & not second hand/used.My comment was about people criticizing only Nvidia in the comment section. the article was great at calling out Vega 64 as as being a bad choice.
Double digit performance increase over the previous gen? Interesting!
The fact that it's only that way OVERCLOCKED? Meh.
And good on you for shitting on NVIDIA's shoes.
The biggest problem I have is when (if) ray tracing comes to fruition soon, the performance hit is going to drag these first-gen RTX cards through the mud, resulting in a huge loss on investment.
Nobody is going to want to pay the artificially inflated prices for a 30-50% hit in FPS, and that's also going to kill the used market values.
Well, even if you clocked them the same, you'd end up with base 1080 FE speeds, which is *still* double-digit gains (25-40%) over a 1070. So...I was talking vs the 1070.
There is nothing ethically wrong with that.I said there is something ethically wrong with doing anything where you know another person broke a contract to enable it. I have lots of analogies -- it's like dating a married woman, technically she's the one that is cheating right?
Stolen goods are something completely different. There was an actual crime involved. A breach of a civil contract and a criminal offense are to be treated much differently.Even if you didn't break a contract yourself, you were enabled by something that was legally wrong. It is like buying stolen property and saying "I wasn't the one who stole it".
Regarding the idea that NDAs are evil, it is important to contrast that with the alternative -- a free-for-all where reviewers scramble to get publicly available stuff.
With NDA: Hey reviewers -- you get preview hardware (possibly cherry picked so use grain of salt) and two weeks to write up thoughtful reviews and you can all publish at the same time along with all the excitement the company is trying to generate around the launch. All they ask is you coordinate the date.
Without NDA: Launch date arrives and reviewers wait, like everyone else, for their orders to arrive. Reviewers in far-flung places like Australia might get theirs days later than others. Then journalistic integrity will be sorely tested because you want to do a thorough review but are under intense pressure to not be scooped by other review sites. Even end customers are are scooping you with reviews before you get to publish yours.
Now certainly NDAs can be weird and onerous. I'm just saying the general hate and suspicion around NDAs is unwarranted.
I think people are getting confused between these NDAs (embargo to a specific, near-term date) and NDAs that apply forever (like a Stormy Daniel's hush contract).
That sentence doesn't even make sense. Law = legal. No one is saying anything criminal happened.
Breaking contracts is breaking the law.
Yes, yes it was. Sorry for the confusion. I should not be making serious responses to posts when I tired.Civil vs Criminal is what he probably intended to say.
There are a different evidentiary standard for each.
[H], having no legal tie to NVIDIA or any of their partners, has run afoul of NEITHER standard.
Perhaps you misunderstood. My underlying point is: investment meaning "the MUCH higher price for a mid-range GPU compared to the pricing of the same tiers of previous generations, but performance tanks massively (to the realm of completely unusable) when ray tracing is used, thus not giving any justification for the much higher pricing, which instantly tanks the value."Honestly?
Anyone buying VIDEO CARDS as "an investment" is both missing the point AND fully deserving of whatever comes to them...
If you have an overclocked 980ti that sounds about right. If it’s not overclocked could be a little more. Assuming you are GPU bottlenecked and not CPU.Good job with review. If Nvidia is pissed it serves them well because they had opportunity to provide fair review terms like they used to for years instead they tried to play AMD and influence reviews.
Hmm I wonder if this card would be good upgrade over 980ti (reference) I have now. 1080 seemed a bit too small for the performance gained but this is another 10-20% faster.
Do you think for games where i have 60-70 fps at 1440p will it bring them to 90-100 ?
We don’t know much about RT yet except DICE thought there were easy ways to increase FPS. I also highly doubt nVidia would commit so much of their die (and basically double the price of their die) if that was true. I am not saying don’t be skeptical but it sounds like you are stating fact, which it’s not. “Wait for december for proper ray tracing games” is the advice I would give if RT is a deciding factor.Perhaps you misunderstood. My underlying point is: investment meaning "the MUCH higher price for a mid-range GPU compared to the pricing of the same tiers of previous generations, but performance tanks massively (to the realm of completely unusable) when ray tracing is used, thus not giving any justification for the much higher pricing, which instantly tanks the value."
I honestly have the utmost respect for Kyle and HardOCP's community for doing what they do. Corporations such as nVidia force reviewers to practices that are bad for consumers and for transparency. I really wish there were many more like Kyle not submitting to these scummy rules and therefore doing what is best for the consumers (you know, the ones that spend they hard-earned money and make these corporations very rich).So because you didn't sign the NDA, you thought it was okay to undercut all the other reviewers who did? Because why? You want to spite Nvidia or something?
I'd like to mention that Steve (GamersNexus) didn't sign recent AMD NDA's, but still managed to source early Ryzen chips and chose not to publish until the NDA date out of respect for other reviewers.
This is a scummy move.
We don’t know much about RT yet except DICE thought there were easy ways to increase FPS. I also highly doubt nVidia would commit so much of their die (and basically double the price of their die) if that was true. I am not saying don’t be skeptical but it sounds like you are stating fact, which it’s not. “Wait for december for proper ray tracing games” is the advice I would give if RT is a deciding factor.
There’s also DLSS, which I am more excited for, if nVidia would just implement the damned thing...
Kyle addressed that in this article. I also know that because by 1080's are usually running 2038-2063MHZ/10.6GHZ 60-70c. My 1080TI is 2025MHZ/11.6GHZ ~50c. I only state 'usually running' because some games with unreal4 can be a little crash happy with anything other than stock overclocks.Many 1080 boost above 2000 out of the box and could potentially match out of the box 2070 btw.
Depends on the price of the 1080ti. At MSRP for both, it very well could be a better buy. It should come out around 10-15% slower for around $100, or so, less. However, if you run across a new 1080 ti for $650 or less then I'd say it makes the 1080 ti a better buy.I'd say it is better to buy this card than a 1080ti brand new. But they need to lower the price to $500 to make it a compelling product for anyone to upgrade from an AMD 290 / nvidia 970 or below.
I don't know about situation in America but in EU supply of 1080ti is almost done and they are back to slightly above MSRP prices so if 2070 cheaper SKUs will be available they will be very attractive.Depends on the price of the 1080ti. At MSRP for both, it very well could be a better buy. It should come out around 10-15% slower for around $100, or so, less. However, if you run across a new 1080 ti for $650 or less then I'd say it makes the 1080 ti a better buy.
Yeah after the hype dies down and availability increases prices may go down if the tariff BS doesn't hit too hard. PC gaming was always kinda pricey in comparison to console/mobile, but you get what you pay for. Sometimes when folks just can't hang with PCMR anymore, they just gotta descend to the console peasant race. XDI think you might be surprised. They are simply pricing many out of the hobby.
Bit higher performance, a lot more price. It doesn't scale linearly on price to performance chart. The price to performance ratio is increasing. And that's bad.Bit higher performance, bit higher price, loaded with new technology... How is that not value?
And for those repeating old information with respect to ray-tracing: we have examples of it struggling at 1080p and running well at 4k, from the same event that you are 'remembering'. We are very likely to see decent performance and the ability to tune that performance with respect to quality as needed, which the same devs have also said.
You may go back to bitching about NDAs.
Uh, no I didnt mix up timing and actors. The timing and actors just don't fit your narrative.Yes.
I'm posting here because there are multiple things to discuss. One of them is the general topic of NDAs.
You're totally mixing up the timing and the actors. There is no point in a reviewer signing an NVIDIA's NDA today (once boards are leaked). There was a point (getting hardware, drivers, support, etc.) to signing it previously. There especially is a point (get a quantity at launch) to MSI's resellers signing it previously.
A reviewer can choose to not sign the NDA and try to sneak equal privileges. But it is a risk, and relies on other people breaking contracts.
You really can't say that nothing was offered for these NDAs. I can totally agree that what is offered may not be worth it -- power to the people and journalists that resist these temptations. But these NDAs do offer something significant in return for towing the line.