MS Clarifies why Win 10 is free

There are, though, “edge cases” that add up to a small fraction of Windows users. If you want a fresh copy of Windows 10 to install on a home-built computer or on a virtual machine (like Parallels or VMware Fusion on a Mac), you might have to pay for the operating system. Woodman said, “We never said Windows is free,” but also, “We haven’t made the decision” on whether it will be free for these users, nor what it will cost if it is not free.
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From the article ^^

What a load of shit. So if I have a windows 8.1 retail license I can't just install windows 10 unless I pay. Instead I have to install 8.1 and then upgrade. Fuck them.
 
canna said:
From the article ^^

What a load of shit. So if I have a windows 8.1 retail license I can't just install windows 10 unless I pay. Instead I have to install 8.1 and then upgrade. Fuck them.
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That's been something we've debated on here.

But building a new PC and getting Windows 10 for free and doing a "clean" reinstall of a computer that was upgraded are two different things.

I'm sure that people will find a way to do a clean install with the free upgrade version.
 
canna said:
From the article ^^

What a load of shit. So if I have a windows 8.1 retail license I can't just install windows 10 unless I pay. Instead I have to install 8.1 and then upgrade. Fuck them.
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yeah... fuck them for only giving me 1 free option, not two
:rolleyes:
 
Curious if the free upgrade carries over to all my old msdn keys... Those are still all valid even though I let my membership expire.. If not, then I have to dig for my retail box version of windows 7 laying around some where..
 
canna said:
So if I have a windows 8.1 retail license I can't just install windows 10 unless I pay. Instead I have to install 8.1 and then upgrade. Fuck them.
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That's how it was supposed to work with the Windows XP/Vista to Windows 7 program, the Windows 7 to Windows 8 upgrade program, and the Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 upgrade program, but in each case, there have been workarounds to clean install the upgrade system.

Clean Install Windows 7 with Upgrade Media
Clean Install Windows 8 with Upgrade Media
Clean Install of Windows 8.1 With a Windows 8 Key

Create Installation Media for Windows 8.1 (Subtitled "Someday, you will need this")

The odds seem to be good that you'll be able to do a clean install of Windows 10 from upgrade media and/or an 8.1 key somehow.
 
Yea, the upgrade method doesn't seem to have changed, only the price for the upgrade.
 
evilsofa said:
That's how it was supposed to work with the Windows XP/Vista to Windows 7 program, the Windows 7 to Windows 8 upgrade program, and the Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 upgrade program, but in each case, there have been workarounds to clean install the upgrade system.

Clean Install Windows 7 with Upgrade Media
Clean Install Windows 8 with Upgrade Media
Clean Install of Windows 8.1 With a Windows 8 Key

Create Installation Media for Windows 8.1 (Subtitled "Someday, you will need this")

The odds seem to be good that you'll be able to do a clean install of Windows 10 from upgrade media and/or an 8.1 key somehow.
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But Windows 10 free update is most likely to be delivered via Windows Update. I'm guessing you'll have to convert the .esd update file into an ISO. http://woshub.com/how-to-convert-install-esd-in-to-iso-image/

Speaking of that, Microsoft added functionality to Windows Update for Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 today. Probably in preparation of Windows 10 free upgrade. http://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583
 
What I was (would be) hoping for:

1. Already on Win 8.1 Pro on all my boxes.
(after Win 10 comes out)
2. Getting install keys for Win 10. Downloading image for Win 10. Making DVD/USB install media.
3. Fresh format/install of Win 10.
4. Win. [haha pun]

Not fan of idea of having to have 8.1 installed in order to 10 on, if that is the way MS is pushing it). I always do fresh format/installs of a new OS in my boxes.
 
I you are installing clean with a Win 10 Upgrade, the installer should have two Key inputs, one for your original key you are upgrading from and the Win 10 key, so you don't have to install the previous OS first.
that is how I would do it.
 
Maybe it'll work like Windows 7 to 8/8.1 upgrade where you can do a clean install of 8/8.1 with generic placeholder key then activate with upgrade key.
 
Never mind, I see people already covered it.
 
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Pretty sure my cat has a better idea of what MS is doing that MS does. By the time the "free upgrade" period is done, most people are going to be in one of two camps; people that have upgraded to 10, or people who chose not to upgrade.

How much money does MS really make selling retail copies of Windows? Outside of small fraction of a percent of enthusiasts, users don't buy Windows. When they buy a new machine, it might happen to have a new version of Windows, but Joe Shmoe doesn't go out and buy a boxed copy of Windows, take it home and install it on his computer.

MS's business model of selling OS's is history. I think they realize it, they're just trying to figure out if they should hang on a little bit longer. Windows is the only case in which a user pays for an OS. Sure, they may pay for it when they purchase the hardware, but nobody pays for an upgrade on their Mac, tablet, phone, etc, so why would they pay for one on their computer. The consumer doesn't care that MS makes money selling software whereas Apple makes it selling hardware.
 
PointandClick said:
Pretty sure my cat has a better idea of what MS is doing that MS does. By the time the "free upgrade" period is done, most people are going to be in one of two camps; people that have upgraded to 10, or people who chose not to upgrade.

How much money does MS really make selling retail copies of Windows? Outside of small fraction of a percent of enthusiasts, users don't buy Windows. When they buy a new machine, it might happen to have a new version of Windows, but Joe Shmoe doesn't go out and buy a boxed copy of Windows, take it home and install it on his computer.

MS's business model of selling OS's is history. I think they realize it, they're just trying to figure out if they should hang on a little bit longer. Windows is the only case in which a user pays for an OS. Sure, they may pay for it when they purchase the hardware, but nobody pays for an upgrade on their Mac, tablet, phone, etc, so why would they pay for one on their computer. The consumer doesn't care that MS makes money selling software whereas Apple makes it selling hardware.
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Some OSX upgrades have cost 15 bucks in the past.
 
Watch my words:
Within 3 years Windows will be a paid subscription based OS.
This is just the side step to convince everyone to upgrade, Win 10.1 or 11 will sure be subscription based (very likely a part of Office 365).
A new device will come with 2-3 years of subscription included.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
What I was (would be) hoping for:

1. Already on Win 8.1 Pro on all my boxes.
(after Win 10 comes out)
2. Getting install keys for Win 10. Downloading image for Win 10. Making DVD/USB install media.
3. Fresh format/install of Win 10.
4. Win. [haha pun]

Not fan of idea of having to have 8.1 installed in order to 10 on, if that is the way MS is pushing it). I always do fresh format/installs of a new OS in my boxes.
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Just like Win8.1 now, you can probably select clean install when "upgrading".
 
Henri108 said:
Watch my words:
Within 3 years Windows will be a paid subscription based OS.
This is just the side step to convince everyone to upgrade, Win 10.1 or 11 will sure be subscription based (very likely a part of Office 365).
A new device will come with 2-3 years of subscription included.
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One word if that happens.

Linux.

Don't laugh.

I know some of you are laughing.

I have never used Linux but if the subscription story comes true, I'll be a Linux using MF'er that day.
I've been doing this since the DOS 3.3 days and even messed around with a Commodore 64 to run my ham packet BBS so I'm pretty sure I can figure it out. I will fucking NEVER pay a subscription for Windows.
 
Formfiller said:
It's pretty easy: Windows 10 will be a free upgrade from 7 and 8.1.

If you want a clean install, you must buy. If you want to re-install your "free" Windows 10, you need to install W7 or 8.1 first and upgrade to 10 again from there.
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Which makes sense; MSFT is basically treated 10 as an upgrade from Vista/7/8.
 
wrangler said:
One word if that happens.

Linux.

Don't laugh.

I know some of you are laughing.

I have never used Linux but if the subscription story comes true, I'll be a Linux using MF'er that day.
I've been doing this since the DOS 3.3 days and even messed around with a Commodore 64 to run my ham packet BBS so I'm pretty sure I can figure it out. I will fucking NEVER pay a subscription for Windows.
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I'm using linux way more than windows already.
 
wrangler said:
One word if that happens.

Linux.

Don't laugh.

I know some of you are laughing.

I have never used Linux but if the subscription story comes true, I'll be a Linux using MF'er that day.
I've been doing this since the DOS 3.3 days and even messed around with a Commodore 64 to run my ham packet BBS so I'm pretty sure I can figure it out. I will fucking NEVER pay a subscription for Windows.
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Every year there's an article proclaiming that this is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop. If MS made this move I could actually maybe possibly see this become somewhat of a reality. Most likely in the form of something like ChromeOS or other highly obscured form. I never really thought Chrome would amount to much, but when's the last time you could walk in to an electronics store, hell Walmart, and buy a computer that didn't run Windows (or OS X)?

Traditional computing is becoming less and less relevant to more and more users. A lot of people probably don't even use a desktop or laptop any more. Is MS really naive enough to believe that people are going to buy into a subscription model for their OS when they can buy a $300 chromebook. People are cheap.

Personally I don't really care. I haven't used Windows as a primary OS in probably 7 years. We have it on the laptop just because it came on it and well... I've learned that once you get married it's just easier to leave shit alone. :p
 
PointandClick said:
Traditional computing is becoming less and less relevant to more and more users. A lot of people probably don't even use a desktop or laptop any more.
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People gush over their iDevices or Android thingamabobs in my neck of the woods and I see more and more laptops collecting dust. Desktops? I haven't seen anybody with one in years and years, so, QFT.
 
PointandClick said:
Every year there's an article proclaiming that this is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop. If MS made this move I could actually maybe possibly see this become somewhat of a reality. Most likely in the form of something like ChromeOS or other highly obscured form. I never really thought Chrome would amount to much, but when's the last time you could walk in to an electronics store, hell Walmart, and buy a computer that didn't run Windows (or OS X)?

Traditional computing is becoming less and less relevant to more and more users. A lot of people probably don't even use a desktop or laptop any more. Is MS really naive enough to believe that people are going to buy into a subscription model for their OS when they can buy a $300 chromebook. People are cheap.

Personally I don't really care. I haven't used Windows as a primary OS in probably 7 years. We have it on the laptop just because it came on it and well... I've learned that once you get married it's just easier to leave shit alone. :p
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I migrated my mother to linux over a half a decade ago. She bought a new Windows 8.1 laptop a couple of weeks ago. After using it for a few days she wanted the old linux laptop back. Now we agreed I'll but Ubuntu MATE on the new laptop for her.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
:confused: Source/citation/numbers on this?
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For casual/entertainment purposes I think the prevailing wisdom is that laptop/desktop use has diminished a lot due to smartphones and tablets. However smartphones and tablets I believe have failed to replace laptops and desktops for mainstream productivity uses to the extent that many were thinking just a few years ago.
 
heatlesssun said:
For casual/entertainment purposes I think the prevailing wisdom is that laptop/desktop use has diminished a lot due to smartphones and tablets. However smartphones and tablets I believe have failed to replace laptops and desktops for mainstream productivity uses to the extent that many were thinking just a few years ago.
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Totally agree. People I know that just check email and Facebook now do those things on tablets and they let their PC collect dust. But I use a PC every day and have no interest in tablets.
 
I would pay $40 for a copy of Windows 10 (Like when 8 was released) on DVD just so that I can install it as a fresh copy.
 
And I wonder what happens if you have the WMC feature installed on 8.0 or 8.1?

I had trouble upgrading to 8.1 from 8.0 with WMC already in place.

I had to first install a clean version of 8.0. Then upgrade to 8.1, and then reinstall WMC.
 
^ Take a wild guess. If you downgrade to Windows 10, it's buh-bye Media Center. The current builds just shitcan WMC during installation, and Microsoft has been quiet on the median center in Win10 question when asked, which in PR speak means "yes, it's gone, but better to say nothing than confirm bad news."

"Sorry about WMC, but might we interest you in one of the thousand fake VLC and media playback apps for $7.99 in the Windows Universal App Store?"
 
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DPI said:
^ Take a wild guess. If you downgrade to Windows 10, it's buh-bye Media Center.
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I love Windows Media Center and would bemoan its loss. But having used WMC for the last decade plus there's only one thing unique to it these days, CableCard support. In an era where everyone is cutting the cord and watching less and less OTA TV what is the point of WMC?

I actually have a couple of CableCard WMC machines in the house. WMC is great for TV and if you use TV, again especially with cable, it's the best thing on a computer out there. But my guess is that a lot people bitching about it like you don't have cable TV or have CableCard setups.
 
DPI said:
"Sorry about WMC, but might we interest you in one of the thousand fake VLC and media playback apps for $7.99 in the Windows Universal App Store?"
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This makes no sense. VLC and WMC are completely different in purpose. Yes, there were a lot of fake VLC apps out there and Microsoft cleaned most of that up at the end of last year. Plus, VLC is even the best Windows Store media player out there. It's called Media Player. It's not free, think it's $15 bucks, but it's very good. Plays pretty much any digital format, even .wtv and DVD discs supposedly but I've never tried that.
 
I think it's far more likely that it's because they can't afford (from an image, not a revenue perspective) a Vista/8.x repeat and they don't think they can sell it.
 
Both my kids have smartphones and they spend quite a lot of time having the phone up to their nose doing stuff. But both also have desktop computers and they spend a lot of time donig stuff that's impractical using the phone such as internet browsing and playing games.

Devices have their uses, mobile devices are simply too small to be comfortable.
 
Mr. Bluntman said:
If they keep ignoring certain customer feedback, it will be a Vista/8.x repeat all over again.

They didn't listen when it came to 8.x, they aren't really listening much now, either, unless it agrees with their point of view.

If they keep turning a deaf ear to the tech preview testers (and gamers by pushing Xbox further on Win), it may be the end of the line for consumer Windows. (for me, at least)
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Seems like they listened to a lot of feedback. The major sticking points of 8.x with keyboards and mice, full screen Start and apps and hot corners have all been addressed. Thing like aesthetics, what this default should be, etc. are secondary and it's not like they don't get contradictory feedback all of the time.
 
heatlesssun said:
Seems like they listened to a lot of feedback. The major sticking points of 8.x with keyboards and mice, full screen Start and apps and hot corners have all been addressed. Thing like aesthetics, what this default should be, etc. are secondary and it's not like they don't get contradictory feedback all of the time.
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Noted, and, you're right.

Asthetics, and the mish-mashing/discontinuity of Metro and Win32 UI elements are my main gripes, as well as pushing XB1 (streaming from XB1 to PC, but not the other way around, for one instance) but not gaming on Windows is what irritates as well.
 
It's traffic acquisition, they want people in the MS ecosystem, nothing more.


Why do you think android, gmail, calendar, hangouts, etc... is all free?
 
Mr. Bluntman said:
Noted, and, you're right.

Asthetics, and the mish-mashing/discontinuity of Metro and Win32 UI elements are my main gripes, as well as pushing XB1 (streaming from XB1 to PC, but not the other way around, for one instance) but not gaming on Windows is what irritates as well.
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The modern stuff, for better or for worse I believe is necessary long term. While it's obvious that a lot of folks don't like it, the modern stuff does give Windows more ability to run on tablets and hybrids. And hybrid devices like the Surface have become pretty important to Microsoft. Yes tablet sales growth has flatland, but that's been the case for laptops and desktops for much longer.

A product as old and mature as Windows is simply hard to grow in a the laptop and desktop market that it still dominates. There's Chromebooks, some attempts at Android but they're brining touch to laptops and desktops as well. It's easy to be cynical about it but it's also not exactly easy to plot a course for Windows in a and age with some many different kinds of devices with Windows being conceived literally a generation ago. There's always going to be that tension to modernize a tried a true product for new users while appeasing existing ones unless you never intend to things for a younger crowd. And I think that's a death sentence for anything consumer facing.

I do think Microsoft could improve things a lot around the area of PC gaming. Certainly bringing all of its XBox titles to the PC would go a long way for the PC crowd. The only reason why I guess they don't do that are economics. I guess there will always be PC gamers that look at the XBox and despise it for taking away from PCs. At some point, and it does look like Microsoft has gone a long way towards this with Windows 10, that XBox and PC are 100% app compatible and interchangeable. That's where it needs to go I think and should be a good thing in the end for everyone.
 
ThisIsTheNewSound said:
It's traffic acquisition, they want people in the MS ecosystem, nothing more.


Why do you think android, gmail, calendar, hangouts, etc... is all free?
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You have to make money somehow. If people aren't willing to buy the OS you have to do other things.
 
heatlesssun said:
You have to make money somehow. If people aren't willing to buy the OS you have to do other things.
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And that's exactly what Microsoft is doing. They are an advertisement company too, just like Google.

If you didn't pay for it, you are the product.

Why do you think they try so hard to hide the fact that you can use an offline, local account to log into Windows (even now, with 8) and try so hard to get you to link it to an online Windows account?
 
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