Most Powerful ATX PSU for NCASE M1 v2 w 12" GPU

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by Moogoos, Jun 22, 2014.

  1. Moogoos

    Moogoos Limp Gawd

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    What is the most powerful ATX PSU one can fit into the NCASE v1 or upcoming v2 that has a 12" 2 slot GPU?
     
  2. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

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  3. Nathan_P

    Nathan_P [H]ard DCOTM x2

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    Judging by the website your chances of using a ATX psu with a 12" GPU are zero.
     
  4. Moogoos

    Moogoos Limp Gawd

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    Hmmm. Maybe I'm not understanding then their requirements:

    Power supply
    SFX PSU support is standard
    ATX PSU support is possible using the included bracket with the following limitations:
    -Cannot be used with the dual 3.5" HDD cage or 240mm radiator mounted to the side bracket (120mm radiator is still possible over the motherboard area)
    -Cannot be used with long GPUs (over 195mm), with the exception of 140mm or shorter non-modular PSUs (not recommended due to cable length)
    -The AC inlet orientation on some ATX power supplies (e.g. Seasonic) may prevent the angle plug from fitting, please check carefully. See this image.
     
  5. Nathan_P

    Nathan_P [H]ard DCOTM x2

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    Basically you can use an ATX PSU if:-

    You have a short gfx card, 7.5" or smaller
    You cannot use the 3.5" hdd cage on the side bracket
    You cannot mount a rad to the side bracket
     
  6. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

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    Sorry, forgive my previous answer. Not helpful. Thing with ATX PSUs is really that, even if you manage to find a non-modular 140mm of reasonable quality, it's not going to be fun fitting it and its sprawl of cabling.

    What GPU are you planning? You know the ST45SF-G can handle most single-chip GPUs, and there is a 500W and a 600W coming out (maybe not soon though). If you have a dual-chip GPU, unless it's the TitanZ it's likely to need watercooling in this case anyway, which again rules out ATX PSU.
     
  7. Moogoos

    Moogoos Limp Gawd

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    I understand the limitations on the fan and HDDs but I don't understand the card length limitation. It isn't clear:

    "Cannot be used with long GPUs (over 195mm), with the exception of 140mm or shorter non-modular PSUs (not recommended due to cable length) "

    So to me this reads we can use longer GPUs if you have a 140mm PSU.
     
  8. Moogoos

    Moogoos Limp Gawd

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    No worries. Well I was happy with my GTX780 but then I saw the mini-display ports and the power of a 2slot card in the R9 295x2 so that screwed up my whole plan. I want to run games on a primary 28" 4k screen but I also have 2 1440p 27" monitors as well that I'd like to run even if they're all down resd to 1080p or 1440p, light games. I'm patiently waiting for the 600 as many are but I'm afraid it won't be enough for this card.
     
  9. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    http://www.corsair.com/en/cx750-80-plus-bronze-certified-power-supply

    This one is 140mm deep according to the website and is 750W, but it has the connector facing the wrong way for the cables supplied with the rev1 case. I don't know if the rev2 case has a different cable included.
    But it's not going to be an easy task with those long cables to stuff into the case. You'd probably have to cut most unused cables and prefereably trim the rest to make assembly possible and not go insane.
     
  10. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

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    M1 case owners experiences with the 290X is already that it needs to be watercooled or it runs close to max recommended thermals. I can't imagine 295X2 is going to be cooler, but I don't know anyone who reviewed this card in a small case like this.

    FSP Raider 750W, 140mm, entirely non-modular, power socket compatible. But it has poor regulation on when loading mostly 12V, which you will be doing with that card.

    http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=310
     
  11. andgo

    andgo [H]Lite

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    How about dual PSUs?

    A HDplex 250W for the motherboard and then a 450W SFX for the GPU.

    :D
     
  12. miguksaram

    miguksaram n00b

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    Genius!
     
  13. milkcow

    milkcow Limp Gawd

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    Judge yourself if you really think, that this is a good idea ...
    Yes the CX600 is 140mm long ;)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    While that is a valid idea, the 450W PSU will still not be enough for the R9 295X2, which easily pulls 450-500W on it's own. And you don't want to just barely satisfy the power needs.

    So the SFX 600W is the one you want, prefereably with a 150W PicoPSU (no need for the extra HDplex board) to prevent that PSU from hitting the limit too often.
    Anandtech has seen their X79 setup with that card pull more than 650W out of the wall (~90% efficiency), meaning that the PSU will have to endure almost 100% load while gaming. That is very unhealthy in the long run for a PSU, which results in instability or over-current protection kicking in after a while of abuse.
     
  15. andgo

    andgo [H]Lite

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    Ah yes. Forgot about the 600w SFX.

    So yeah, 600W SFX + 150W Pico is probably a good bet. One could even go with a 250W HDPlex if concerned with overclocking.
     
  16. geok1ng

    geok1ng 2[H]4U

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    If you can find it for sale in your country, the most compact ATX 600w+ that i could search fo is this nexus nx-6000 r3 a 630w PSU 125cm long. considering that there is now a 600w SFX PSU, going ATX may not be the best solution.
     
  17. Chrytek

    Chrytek n00b

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    Are you guys taking into account that this case is rated for 400W of heat? I'm afraid the case temperature will be way too high.
     
  18. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

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    What do you mean Chrytek? Who has rated the M1? And how did they come up with that figure?
     
  19. Peter_364

    Peter_364 [H]Lite

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    Dual PSU would be so awesome, I wish I could line four of these up on the bottom of the case and have the res in place of the PSU but while writing this I have realized that this would be very difficult having to link 2/3 of them together and that you would have like 4 adapters outside your case
     
  20. andgo

    andgo [H]Lite

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    The HDPlex 250W is apparently perfectly capable of going up to 350-400W if cooled.
     
  21. Moogoos

    Moogoos Limp Gawd

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    This is a bummer. I think I'm going to opt out of the M1 v2 as I really want the 295x2 card and need the power to run it. After many years of small cases, SG05, 08, L1, 110, I guess I'll have to go slightly bigger again. :/
     
  22. Necere

    Necere 2[H]4U

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    I've told people that the M1 isn't really designed to deal with the heat a 500W+ dual GPU card would produce. The fact that the case will get pretty warm with e.g. a GTX780 or R9 290X, which pull <300W... another 200W won't be pretty. It may work, because as WiSK has pointed out, it's not so much the heat we feel that matters, but the temperature the components were designed to run at. But the subjective experience is still important; while the case being hot to the touch won't necessarily be problematic for the components, it is for the user.
     
  23. Chrytek

    Chrytek n00b

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    Answered above
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2014
  24. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    You were still incorrect in claiming it was "rated for 400W". It does have it's limits though, Necere already concluded this last year in the thermal testing. But as he also points out, it's mainly the idea the PC/case is too hot because it feels hot. I'm just watching my temps closely so I'm not worried when I "feel" my case being warm or hot. If my GPU says it's 60°C, I know it can easily handle 35°C more because it came out of the factory with that thermal target.

    All in all, I do agree on the topic starter's opinion that a less tiny case is better suited. He plainly needs an ATX PSU, since it basically is an expensive patch job of an ATX PSU's volume with an SFX and PicoPSU (+ adapter) or HDPlex board. I'd suggest looking into Silverstone's and BitFenix's offerings for a suitable case.
     
  25. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

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    Forgive me, but I'm now imagining you licking your finger and holding it up to check the wind before saying "Hmm, 400W" :p

    I would imagine heat rating of any enclosure depends entirely on the cooling system implemented. If you just use the stock GPU air cooler, it's going to be different than having a H220 or similar with an aggressive fan profile, right? And having a backplate that acts as a heatsink, rather than just to look pretty, is going to help too. I mean, the GPU is going to generate the same heat, but if you can move the air heated by convection efficiently, then the limit becomes more about how much heat is radiated.

    But yes, even if you could accomodate the heat of an X2 by turning the M1 into a massive heatsink - you won't be able to touch the case :)
     
  26. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    Thus an excellent anti-theft device ! All you need is to run the GPU at max and forget about the electrical bills :D
     
  27. AcUaViVa

    AcUaViVa n00b

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  28. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

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    ST65F-G: it's 140mm, but it's modular. Which means the connectors stick out another 20mm and would press against the back of the GPU.
     
  29. AcUaViVa

    AcUaViVa n00b

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    with a 970.. with short pcb?
     
  30. WiSK

    WiSK 2[H]4U

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    The title of the thread mentions a 12" GPU...
     
  31. Chosin137

    Chosin137 n00b

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    55$ PCIExpress right angle riser cable. Allows you to move the Video Card down one slot and then you can fit a standard size ATX Power supply in the Ncase M1. http://www.adexelec.com/pciexp.htm#PE-FLEX16KR-3. This is the only cable I have found that is shielded and can bend properly enough to fit the Video Card in the case properly.
     
  32. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    Have you actually tested and fitted it ? Because it still looks difficult to bend a shielded riser with such limited space.
     
  33. Chosin137

    Chosin137 n00b

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    Confirmed to work with the right angle Adex version,It will not fit with just any riser cable. I have it plugged into the pciexpress slot then bent 180 degrees and then bent another 180 degrees. It's a very high quality part, the shielding is warpable although at first I had my doubts. The key is to be careful and make sure that it is firmly seated in both pciexpress slots before you power on the computer. With mine it pulled out of the slot a little while maneuvering it with the video card so I'm glad I triple checked it. It does work, its just a really tight fit... like everything else in the M1 Ncase. $55 Riser or $160 Power supply.Granted I can't fit a bunch more fans or high speed watercooling gear... but then again I feel that gear is a bit overkill anyways. Although that might just be me being jellies because I cannot afford it :p.
     
  34. Groats

    Groats n00b

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    Would you kindly be able to post a pic of your set up Chosin137? Guessing that set up rules out using a 3.5hdd?
     
  35. Chosin137

    Chosin137 n00b

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    I can confirm this will eat up every inch of space in your box. I personally was able to mount two 840pro's to the front behind the faceplate. I don't own any 3.5 so I don't know if that works in the front or not.
     
  36. thefivetheory

    thefivetheory [H]Lite

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    So you're running a 295x2 in an M1? Would you mind sharing more details? A photo of your setup be great, and some info on your component choices (e.g., PSU, CPU cooler) and layout would be really appreciated.

    For example, assuming you're using an ATX PSU, I would guess the 295x2's rad is mounted above the CPU... is that causing any trouble with the CPU cooler?

    Thanks!!
     
  37. Chosin137

    Chosin137 n00b

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    No I am running an Asus 780GTX stock, the fan on the GPU is more than adequate, I don't really have the money to do watercooling on the GPU. H80i on the CPU, Fractal Design R3 Newton 1000W (Reused off last build). Rad is in front of the CPU (fan is mounted between the cpu and to the RAD blowing air through the Rad and out of the case. ATX power supply is mounted with the fan blowing into the case. (Otherwise doesn't work). Considering the CPU is watercooled I don't really care so much. Geforce card is wedged into the bottom two slots with the Adex and its quite the project to get it in. Cables are a mess mainly because there's no where to put them. 840pro's dual mounted in the front. No ODD. No pictures until I can get my new phone, should only be a couple more days. The GF card mainly blows air out the back vents so I'm not seeing any issues with it.
     
  38. thefivetheory

    thefivetheory [H]Lite

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    Ah okay, I was reading this pretty late last night and guess I got mixed up... thanks for the clarification!