More GeForce GTX 580 Rumors

John_Keck

Limp Gawd
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May 3, 2010
Messages
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NordicHardware has a good article clearing some of the mystery behind the GTX 580 rumors. Utilizing all of its CUDA cores, higher clock frequencies, and the sacrificing of High Performance Computing functionality for increased retail-presence is shaping up to make this card a monster. The launch date for both the GTX 580 and AMD’s HD 6900 series are expected around November 20th

We have had a hard time seeing how NVIDIA would be able to activate its sixteenth SM unit without severe problems with the power consumption. But with GF110 NVIDIA made an active choice and sacrificed the HPC functionality (High Performance Computing) that it talked so boldly about for Fermi, not only to make it smaller but also more efficient.
 
I'm glad I got into Fermi since I want to use my card for HPC as well as gaming but I applaud nVidia for gearing the GTX580 for consumer needs since it is a consumer part.
 
People do realize this is more Nvidia Re-branding shenanigans right? The spec's of the re-branded 580 is really what the 480 was supposed to have. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
What i find most interesting is the re-syncing of the generations for green and red... assuming it will be a real launch, not a soft one...
 
People do realize this is more Nvidia Re-branding shenanigans right? The spec's of the re-branded 580 is really what the 480 was supposed to have. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. Re-branding by nvidia has always been a new product that is exactly the same, or nearly so, to the old model.
The 580 will be significantly more spec-wise, than the 480.
 
the rumors I have been reading, have said it will be a paper launch, there might be a handful of cards available this year, but it'll be feb before they are available in quantity.

looks like the nVidia PR machine running..

still, if it actually is available soon, it means more competition, which means lower prices! good for us
 
I don't know why people want HPC in the retail fermi cards anyway. Isn't HPC used to do things like folding? I would guess 99% of people don't care about HPC. We just want to game. Isn't HPC suppose to be suppose the quattro series do? If so, just chuck $2k and fold all you want.
 
I don't know why people want HPC in the retail fermi cards anyway. Isn't HPC used to do things like folding? I would guess 99% of people don't care about HPC. We just want to game. Isn't HPC suppose to be suppose the quattro series do? If so, just chuck $2k and fold all you want.

You realize that Team [H] is demolishing everybody in Folding, right? Do you know what site you're on and who you're talking to?

So, duh, we here at [H] want that.
 
@Modred189

I don't think I am wrong. I am talking about the oringinal specs that were supposed to launch with the 480, not what they ended up shipping. I know that the 480 was late coming to market do to die / manufacturing issues. Then there were the rumors that said Nnvidia wanted to cut back the specs on their 480 in order to be able to relaunch against the new 68xx / 69xx series. From everything I've been reading, the 580 is a re-branded 480 original pre-shipping spec'd card.
 
@Modred189

I don't think I am wrong. I am talking about the oringinal specs that were supposed to launch with the 480, not what they ended up shipping. I know that the 480 was late coming to market do to die / manufacturing issues. Then there were the rumors that said Nnvidia wanted to cut back the specs on their 480 in order to be able to relaunch against the new 68xx / 69xx series. From everything I've been reading, the 580 is a re-branded 480 original pre-shipping spec'd card.

Ok, lol, i think we are saying the same thing, just defining "rebranding' differently.
I would only consider re-branding to a SHIPPED/SOLD model, as opposed to leaked/pre-sale/anticipated specs.
Tomato/tomahto
 
HPC cuts makes this a no-go for me. Hopefully I can grab some cheap(er) 480 GTXs when the 580 comes out
 
"the rumors I have been reading, have said it will be a paper launch, there might be a handful of cards available this year..."

That´s what a lot of people in the "GTX 580 Rumor" - thread seem to think. Also I think a lot of us are slightly disappointed in terms of the supposed specs, compared to the fiery awesomeness we first heard of (512bit bus and 128 MTUs), but that´s how rumors go of course.

Should be interesting to see how this is going to play out and how much "damage" Nvidia can do to AMD if it turns out faster than Cayman and is in circulation at the same time. Interesting times! :D
 
Wait a minute - you can still fold on it right? Just as you can on a AMD card. Or previous Nvidia cards.
 
All I can say is, no, the 580 will not sway me into buying it over the new 69xx series cards. I've got my $600 dollars right here for the new 69xx Crossfire in one card. Nuff said.
 
I don't know why people want HPC in the retail fermi cards anyway. Isn't HPC used to do things like folding? I would guess 99% of people don't care about HPC. We just want to game. Isn't HPC suppose to be suppose the quattro series do? If so, just chuck $2k and fold all you want.

Precisely, and agreed. But folding is a nice side effect...

You realize that Team [H] is demolishing everybody in Folding, right? Do you know what site you're on and who you're talking to?

So, duh, we here at [H] want that.

Speak for yourself. There may be a select few here @ [H] who would 'require' the folding expectation of a graphics chip. But make no mistake, I'd put my money that the *most* of us here at [H] damn sure prefer a gaming card first and foremost.

Give me the choice between a 'nice' dual purpose graphics card that folds as well as games, and with a card dedicated exclusively built with 'gaming' in mind, you'll be left crying to mommy that you didn't have a fair chance.

The question really is...do *you* realize what audience you're talking to?

PS: I do respect your intended point...and by default, the [H] crew *should be* dominating the shit outta every other group out there. But...did folding bring you to the [H]??? I think not.
 
Don't care about folding what so ever. My main focus is gaming and just overall general performance.

And i hope the GTX 580 exceed well in those things.:)
 
Yeah dont care about folding, bring me a specialize gaming card without the unnecessary features to reduce cost and power consumption.
 
Sounds like it will be worse at folding but still capable.

My impression - and I could be wrong - is that the GF100 design has a lot of HPC hardware in it that is locked in Geforce geforce models, but is available in Tesla models.

They do this because they use the same chips for both commercial Geforce and professional Tesla boards.

My guess is that the performance of the 580 for folding will scale similarly as gaming performance, just the extra circuitry that is mostly idle in the GTX480 implementation will be missing, and as such they will not be able to make a Tesla version of the GF110.

The reason I am guessing this is because they couldn't sell Geforce boards at commercial prices with all the features of Tesla boards or professional users would just buy the cheaper Geforce boards. We also know that ECC and one-clock double precision calculations are disabled in Geforce versions of Fermi, but available in Tesla versions.

I could be wrong though. Time will tell.
 
Zarathustra[H];1036365247 said:
My impression - and I could be wrong - is that the GF100 design has a lot of HPC hardware in it that is locked in Geforce geforce models, but is available in Tesla models.

They do this because they use the same chips for both commercial Geforce and professional Tesla boards.

The geforce and the quadro (professional) cards use the same/similar PCBs/GPUs but the Quadros are a load more expensive. The reason (they say) for this cost increase is because of the different drivers (has better bit prescision and does things differently, though is crippled for games, will run 3dmax better etc.) and more "professional" customer support. Which is why you can softmod a GTX 8800GT (not so much) into a quadro FX 3700 ($789)
The series 20 are based on fermi chips with 512 cores. Not sure if its the same chip in a 480 however.
 
Honestly, and forgive my ignorance. I have no idea what is folding-thingy, I never heard of folding until 400s came out. I have no idea what the fook folding is. I have no idea what the fook CUDA-thingy is. If these things don't give me 300fps in BFBC2, I dont want it. I just want to blow shiiiiiiiiiit up in BFBC2 etc etc. Ever since 400s came out, I read all this talk in websites about folding like its the second coming of Jesus and we are forced to believe in it like man-made global warming.

If folding-thingy and CUDA-thingy is something for "professional" use, please keep it in the quattro, so I can save money in both purchase and electric bill.

Nerd-stuff not needed kthx.
 
Honestly, and forgive my ignorance. I have no idea what is folding-thingy, I never heard of folding until 400s came out. I have no idea what the fook folding is. I have no idea what the fook CUDA-thingy is. If these things don't give me 300fps in BFBC2, I dont want it. I just want to blow shiiiiiiiiiit up in BFBC2 etc etc. Ever since 400s came out, I read all this talk in websites about folding like its the second coming of Jesus and we are forced to believe in it like man-made global warming.

If folding-thingy and CUDA-thingy is something for "professional" use, please keep it in the quattro, so I can save money in both purchase and electric bill.

Nerd-stuff not needed kthx.

CUDA is what phys-x runs off. Phys-x is what lots of games use to make blowing shit up more...realistic.
 
Honestly, and forgive my ignorance. I have no idea what is folding-thingy, I never heard of folding until 400s came out. I have no idea what the fook folding is. I have no idea what the fook CUDA-thingy is. If these things don't give me 300fps in BFBC2, I dont want it. I just want to blow shiiiiiiiiiit up in BFBC2 etc etc. Ever since 400s came out, I read all this talk in websites about folding like its the second coming of Jesus and we are forced to believe in it like man-made global warming.

If folding-thingy and CUDA-thingy is something for "professional" use, please keep it in the quattro, so I can save money in both purchase and electric bill.

Nerd-stuff not needed kthx.

Cuda is what runs Phys-X so things fly all over the place when you blow shiiiiiit up.

Folding is what saves you from Cancer in 50 years when they discover the protein sequence to save your life so you can keep blowing shiiiiiiiit up.
 
All fine and good except in his case it's not much use in BFBC2 as the game doesn't support Phys-x.

But its probably the most widely used "non nerd-stuff" implementation of GPU code. After that im on CUDA waves in just cause 2 or the h.264 accelaration.
 
Screw both NVIDIA and AMD. Why doesn’t one of them do something unexpected and support REAL game development that actually uses their hardware, and produce something that makes everyone go "WOW! My PC has to be able to play that!".

All their high-end products (and even the last few generations) have been overkill for the games that are on the market. The only way to leverage the huge amount of excess power of these GPUs is by using very high resolutions, multi-monitor gaming, and excessive filtering and AA. These features generally don't require much or any effort from game developers, which are happy to target architectures generations old because that's what's in consoles. Aren't NVIDIA and AMD scared that there's very little need for the over-the-top toasters they're pushing, and that without any true benefit, why not just buy a console?

Show me one game that truly utilizes the power of these cards, without resorting to stupid high resolutions or multiple monitors.

(having said the above, I'll probably buy 2x 580GTXs, because I'm nuts)
 
^^^ yes I'm sad there isn't more collusion between videocard makers and game developers to get us some decent games to play. They have to realize the cycle of upgrading is inevitably tied to what there is to play out there.

The reason they have both slumped in videocard sales is because nobody has really had any real reason to upgrade since Crysis a few years ago and honestly, the biggest boon to videocard sales has been Starcraft 2 this year which doesn't require much.
 
Screw both NVIDIA and AMD. Why doesn’t one of them do something unexpected and support REAL game development that actually uses their hardware, and produce something that makes everyone go "WOW! My PC has to be able to play that!".

All their high-end products (and even the last few generations) have been overkill for the games that are on the market. The only way to leverage the huge amount of excess power of these GPUs is by using very high resolutions, multi-monitor gaming, and excessive filtering and AA. These features generally don't require much or any effort from game developers, which are happy to target architectures generations old because that's what's in consoles. Aren't NVIDIA and AMD scared that there's very little need for the over-the-top toasters they're pushing, and that without any true benefit, why not just buy a console?

Show me one game that truly utilizes the power of these cards, without resorting to stupid high resolutions or multiple monitors.

(having said the above, I'll probably buy 2x 580GTXs, because I'm nuts)

lol at the last line. Just like you said, high resolution gaming. Consoles still have a hard time with 1080p gaming. They scale up the image which make it even more unbearable. PC gaming is moving beyond 1080p so it requires more GPU horsepower. AMD realized this with the 5000 series which the 5870 was even enough for 2560x1600 and Eyefinity gaming. Without Eyefinity, it really would have proved your point about overkill but AMD found a way to take it to the next level. Consoles are preventing more creative and graphically intense games. If it can't run on consoles how will devs make money??? That's how the industry looks at things.
 
Screw both NVIDIA and AMD. Why doesn’t one of them do something unexpected and support REAL game development that actually uses their hardware, and produce something that makes everyone go "WOW! My PC has to be able to play that!".

All their high-end products (and even the last few generations) have been overkill for the games that are on the market. The only way to leverage the huge amount of excess power of these GPUs is by using very high resolutions, multi-monitor gaming, and excessive filtering and AA. These features generally don't require much or any effort from game developers, which are happy to target architectures generations old because that's what's in consoles. Aren't NVIDIA and AMD scared that there's very little need for the over-the-top toasters they're pushing, and that without any true benefit, why not just buy a console?

Show me one game that truly utilizes the power of these cards, without resorting to stupid high resolutions or multiple monitors.

(having said the above, I'll probably buy 2x 580GTXs, because I'm nuts)

The mouldy donut game! It's not just console developers. It's people in general. If you point fingers then you do nothing yourself, because it's someone elses fault. Thats how presidents work. It needs to be an industry wide push.
 
I’m waiting to see if this statement is true

Huang said. "We expect Kepler to be somewhere between three to four times the performance per watt of Fermi."
 
Either this is another sad attempt at trying real hard to steal attention and customers away from the better choice, or they managed to keep every single thing about it, including taping out months ago secret, not a single leak or rumor.

..or it really is a bugfixed GF100 monolith that not even the chinese sites cared for when it was leaked to them from the factories and labs.



WorldExclusive, 1080p? The consoles can't even handle 720p gaming. We were promised 1080p at 60FPS, some titles delivered (like that shit Ridge Racer one), but it's hard to find AAA titles rendering at something that doesn't scale up like crap. 1280x720@30FPS stable is too much to ask for. The Halos, the MWs and the lot scale up from sub-HD resolutions, many big name games on both HD platforms you need to not be nitpicky about like I am in order to stand - I shunned MGS4 because it was 1152x864 ish - yes - scaled up and stretched out and even then it wasn't moving at very good speeds.

Luckily the future consoles have their graphics partners set for presentation next year. It's been a long road for a generational jump and not a moment too soon. Maybe then the minimum will actually be 720p@30fps and we'll go ooh and aah at 1080p@60fps natively rendered games.

/bitter rant
 
So if I'm not mistaken, this is like a really beefy 460?

That's what I was thinking. The GTX460 did exactly that, sacrificing HPC features and performance, for improved gaming performance and efficiency.

Some features, like ECC, were in the GF100, but for desktop GPUs, it was simply disabled. GF100 FP64 performance is artificially throttled for desktop cards. Still, those features (and probably many others) are still taking up transistors even though they're never used in games. With GF104, Nvidia completely threw out ECC and significantly reduced the number of FP64-capable CUDA cores, while at the same time doubling the number of texture units per SM.

My guess is that in the future, Nvidia will design two separate chips, one for their Tesla line, and another for the GeForce line. They won't just disable features for the GeForce line, they would throw them out completely to reduce transistor count and power draw.

Probably a fully enabled GF104 at 800-850 MHz would have no problem competing with the 6870. Meanwhile, a GF104-style GPU with more stream processors would be a great high-end card. Because they have a 100W and 1 billion transistor headroom with GF104, this should definitely be possible.
 
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