More Confirmation Of NVIDIA GPP Impacting Consumer Choice

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Are folks breaking the First Rule of NVIDIA GPP: Don't Talk About GPP? Allen Ngo of Notebook Check is reporting that he has spoken with "three independent and reliable sources" that are telling him that "Nvidia is strongly responsible for keeping Kaby Lake-G from proliferating." While we have not spent a lot of time discussing Kaby Lake-G (the Intel mobile CPU with AMD's Palo Alto GPU on substrate), we have touched on it a bit. Allen is flat out saying that NVIDIA is attempting to keep the Kaby Lake-G out of the market. One thing that we have not said publicly is that we believe that Kaby Lake-G was specifically targeted by another GPP-ish "program" before NVIDIA rolled out GPP, called "100% NVIDIA." We have not discussed this, simply because we could not verify that with multiple sources, so I have sort of left 100% NVIDIA in the rumor bin. However, if what Allen is saying over at Notebook Check is true, then it would make me think that it is possible that a "100% NVIDIA" program actually exists. Guys talk, you hear things. Except for NVIDIA, they are still not saying a word about GPP, except when they try to disparage others talking about GPP.


First impressions of the few Kaby Laky-G products currently shipping are quite promising. Whether or not the platform will take off, however, could be at the mercy of Nvidia and its GPP partners.
 
Pepsi or Coke? Walk into a restaurant and order Pepsi, sometimes they offer you Coke instead. Funny how that works. Business, its a thing that has been around a long time.

People acting as though this is something that will actually stop you from buy an AMD card is just plain FUD. People acting as though ASUS is not going to make AMD cards is just wrong, as can been seen from their recent rebranding of AMD cards to "whatever that name was". Other companies can do the same, or not.

If you don't like their product, don't buy them.
 
Pepsi or Coke? Walk into a restaurant and order Pepsi, sometimes they offer you Coke instead. Funny how that works. Business, its a thing that has been around a long time.

People acting as though this is something that will actually stop you from buy an AMD card is just plain FUD. People acting as though ASUS is not going to make AMD cards is just wrong, as can been seen from their recent rebranding of AMD cards to "whatever that name was". Other companies can do the same, or not.

If you don't like their product, don't buy them.

lol you are really missing the plot.
 
Yes, those are just the guys you want to run an Anti-trust playbook against, the same ones that got hit with Anti-trust themselves.

What is nVidia so afraid of? They've been the leader in GPU tech for many years. Their brand and company can stand on that fact. Why do they feel the need to do some of these shady tactics? It seems almost systemic at this point and nVidia might want to think about clearing some house if this is what they're spending money and effort on. They're signaling that they're insecure about their future.
 
So... More rumors and speculation.

Intel is a big boy. Pretty sure it can handle itself if there's anything to this.
 
If Nvidia can limit the number of AIB's who sell Kaby lake-G then it won't get the exposure it needs to become successful. Customers will see plenty of Nvidia based notebooks but very few if any of the AMD based Kaby lake-G products.The average consumer would probably view Kaby lake-G is an unpopular choice since so few AIB's are promoting it. This is what Nvidia is counting on by removing AMD from visibility as much as possible.
 
I have such a hard time keeping track of these things. Does this mean Kyle is shilling for Intel this week? Or does this make him bi? This is so confusing since this has AMD and Intel silicon on the same chip. Do we know if the silicon is touching? It's not gay if it's not touching, right?
 
This is what I'm saying, that GPP is aimed towards laptops more than discrete cards. AMD has exclusive board partners like XFX and Sapphire which just muddies GPP. But laptops with Kaby Lake G or Ryzen Vega graphics would certainly have a much larger effect from GPP.
 
I have such a hard time keeping track of these things. Does this mean Kyle is shilling for Intel this week? Or does this make him bi? This is so confusing since this has AMD and Intel silicon on the same chip. Do we know if the silicon is touching? It's not gay if it's not touching, right?

 
So... More rumors and speculation.

Intel is a big boy. Pretty sure it can handle itself if there's anything to this.

Some people go to great lengths to plug their ears and pretend everything is fine.

Intel can handle it, AMD is a different story. If this partnership proves unprofitable for Intel do you really think they're going to keep it going?
 
People acting as though this is something that will actually stop you from buy an AMD card is just plain FUD.

But this isn't about add-in GPU cards, this is about mobile PCs where you buy the complete package generally as is. Kaby Lake-G looks to be a compelling part for ultrabooks and 2 in 1s where traditionally all one could ever get are lack luster Intel iGPUs. Laptop gaming is becoming a bigger deal and nVidia owns that market currently and it is curious where there is such lack of Kaby Lake-G based machines.
 
Pepsi or Coke? Walk into a restaurant and order Pepsi, sometimes they offer you Coke instead. Funny how that works. Business, its a thing that has been around a long time.
Except the concern there is cost associated with maintaining multiple soda fountains. Which takes extra space for the dispenser and inventory.

What is nVidia so afraid of? They've been the leader in GPU tech for many years. Their brand and company can stand on that fact. Why do they feel the need to do some of these shady tactics? It seems almost systemic at this point and nVidia might want to think about clearing some house if this is what they're spending money and effort on. They're signaling that they're insecure about their future.
The concern is that APUs and embedded designs displace the majority of dGPU volume if they take off. All the low end designs feature integrated/embedded graphics and Intel largely controls that market share. With HBM and Vega the opportunity exists to expand that envelope to mid range graphics or even higher. Taking control of most of the remaining OEM marketshare at Nvidia's expense. Completely cutting out Nvidia as collaboration with the CPU is a necessity. AMD and Intel could release a new x86 standard for integrating the components and leave Nvidia dry. The collaboration works because both ultimately win in this scenario and the market will get a better product in the proce

If Nvidia can limit the number of AIB's who sell Kaby lake-G then it won't get the exposure it needs to become successful.
AIBs aren't really an issue for Kaby-G as they will be embedded in whichever device uses them. Laptops and NUCs don't have cards added. The current design is more of a testbed for future designs that will happen as Intel and AMD will ultimately choose to make it work.
 
What is nVidia so afraid of? They've been the leader in GPU tech for many years. Their brand and company can stand on that fact. Why do they feel the need to do some of these shady tactics? It seems almost systemic at this point and nVidia might want to think about clearing some house if this is what they're spending money and effort on. They're signaling that they're insecure about their future.

I doubt it's fear, nVidia is looking to lockdown the market. This is strategic thinking, not fear.

My 10 cents, nVidia wants to focus on the AI and server market. They probably see it as a larger segment then gamers, this includes cars, automation, movie studios, research, etc. Companies only have a limited amount of resource to operate, and in shifting focus the advances in the gaming market place will begin to stagnate. Makes sense to want to lock the competition out when your on top and shifting directions.
 
I have such a hard time keeping track of these things. Does this mean Kyle is shilling for Intel this week? Or does this make him bi? This is so confusing since this has AMD and Intel silicon on the same chip. Do we know if the silicon is touching? It's not gay if it's not touching, right?

I'm going to say he'll identify as binary. :LOL:

I'd expect Intel will very, very seriously fight this one if it's impacting sales of their CPU's which just happen to contain AMD graphics. Way to go Nv!
 
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Some people go to great lengths to plug their ears and pretend everything is fine.

Intel can handle it, AMD is a different story. If this partnership proves unprofitable for Intel do you really think they're going to keep it going?
And some people will begin plugging their ears when every day is multitudes of speculation and rumor headlines which seem to do little more than stir controversy and site traffic.

I realize online echo chambers are appealing - like digital comfort food because you don't have to think, but facts are fundamental.
 
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And some people will begin plugging their ears when every day is endless speculation and rumor headlines which seem to do little more than stir controversy and site traffic.

Facts are fundamental.
Here is a fact. I reached out to Jeff Fisher, EVP at NVIDIA, and whom I have known for ~15 years, BEFORE I published the first GPP article to discuss it. I sent him an email and I almost immediately got a call from NV PR. They told me he was too busy to speak with me and that there was nothing to discuss. Again, here is an opportunity for NVIDIA to go on the record in a big way and extol the virtues of GPP and how great it is for the consumer.....nothing but crickets from the upper brass.
 
And some people will begin plugging their ears when every day is multitudes of speculation and rumor headlines which seem to do little more than stir controversy and site traffic.

I realize online echo chambers are appealing - like digital comfort food because you don't have to think, but facts are fundamental.

What more bloody evidence do you need that GPP exists? MSI, ASUS, and Gigabyte pullling AMD cards from their main gaming brands isn't proof? AMD all but coming out and directly saying it isn't enough? There's being skeptical and then there is burying your head in the sand. You're doing the later.
 
I hate to say it but it seems when a company - ANY company - gets to a point when they think they can get away with it they'll deploy tactics like this to suppress competition. The payoff for success is a monopoly for the company and a huge payoff in stock options for the employees if they can pull it off. What I'm really hoping here is that Jensen Huang didn't have eyes on the program till Kyle blew the lid off it. Based on what Kyle just said, looks like if he's not in on it he's definitely aware of it by now.

In the end [H] readers not only pay attention to crap like this and factor it into our next upgrade plans, we share those opinions with friends/family/coworkers as well. When I finally put my i7 920/GTX 770 out to pasture, the consideration of "do I really want to run hardware from a company that does crap like this in my rig" will weight heavy on what goes into my next build.... and what I recommend my family/kids/co-workers/etc buy.
 
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Every Nvidia news article and review should have a GPP reminder in the beginning and conclusion.
Why stop there? Why not add it to any graphics card review, period?

"Please remember folks that this review is part of the [H]CA Initiative, or [H]ard|OCP Consumer Awareness, to combat GPP's intention of blinding consumers by making them think "not only is nVidia currently the best performing choice, but we're also the only choice!" We will continue to show you the cold [H]ard facts as outlined in this current review of <insert graphics card name here>."
 
I have such a hard time keeping track of these things. Does this mean Kyle is shilling for Intel this week? Or does this make him bi? This is so confusing since this has AMD and Intel silicon on the same chip. Do we know if the silicon is touching? It's not gay if it's not touching, right?

All I know is I really screwed up my career by not working myself into a position to get paid by all these guys who are paying all those shills! DAMN IT!
 
AMD is one thing, but can they really do that to Intel? They really have that much of a pull? Man, that's proper scary.
 
So... More rumors and speculation.

Intel is a big boy. Pretty sure it can handle itself if there's anything to this.

My guess would be Nvidia (nor any of the rest of us) are not going to love the Intel fix on this.

Of course they know exactly what Nvidia is up to and why perhaps OEMs are not snapping up Intel chips that you would assume should be flying off the shelves. I am sure that is why Intel is throwing money at GPU development people. At some point they will put a 100% Intel solution together and likely simply remove the ability of OEMs to even use third party adapters. Their deal with Nvidia to protect the PC platform is long over... and as Nvidia seems to know courts take forever... Not to mention the world a different place then it was when Intel ended up in court over AMD and Nvdia. x86 is no longer the dominant compute platform it once was... if Apple Samsung and the rest of the Tech world can make SOC Arm chips, why can Intel not make a SOC x86 the removes all the expansion options.
 
Pepsi or Coke? Walk into a restaurant and order Pepsi, sometimes they offer you Coke instead. Funny how that works. Business, its a thing that has been around a long time.

People acting as though this is something that will actually stop you from buy an AMD card is just plain FUD. People acting as though ASUS is not going to make AMD cards is just wrong, as can been seen from their recent rebranding of AMD cards to "whatever that name was". Other companies can do the same, or not.

If you don't like their product, don't buy them.
There's a difference between "here's your choice" and "we are taking over your branding for our cards exclusively, and if you don't play ball, we will choke off your supplies and marketing money".

The first is just a choice; the second is extortion which at this level becomes racketeering, and is definitely against the law.
 
Go Nvidia! Crush your enemies to dust and salt the ground they once dwelt on. Kill! Kill! Kill!
 
In the end [H] readers not only pay attention to crap like this and factor it into our next upgrade plans, we share those opinions with friends/family/coworkers as well. When I finally put my i7 920/GTX 770 out to pasture, the consideration of "do I really want to run hardware from a company that does crap like this in my rig" will weight heavy on what goes into my next build.... and my family/kids/co-workers/etc.

I completely agree with the latter half of that. While I openly profess to being a true AMD fan, I'm also quite proud to state I'm not a fanatic who does not see (or believe) the facts. I openly admit to people who ask for my advice on hardware that if you need the most bleeding edge framerates money can buy, well it's Intel and nVidia as your go-to hardware. If you're able to deal with the same image quality and at still more than acceptable framerates... well you can save quite a bit of money by going with AMD. (Granted, the mining craze has kinda hampered the 'AMD is cheaper' on the GPU side).

That being said, the sad part is that while [H] readers pay attention to this... from what I've seen in the discussions on these news posts and some other threads on [H], is that a lot of people don't have that same sort of moral compass :\ They have stated that --albeit in different words, but which equate to this exact same thing-- they will continue to reward nVidia for all the shit they pull if they continue to offer the superior graphics solution, as they are simply brand agnostic. Now some of those people I genuinely question if they are only out to buy whomever has the faster product, it's either they are closet nVidia fanatics, or they aren't real hardware enthusiasts...

Yes, I'm calling a bunch of people out as not being what they claim to be, but the simple matter of the situation is that if you're going to continue to buy products from (see: reward) a company who is willing to publicly pull these sort of shenanigans, then realistically you belong in the group of people we call "sheeple". They follow the rest of the herd and continue to graze on the greenest grass, not giving a care in the world whose gardens they have to trample or yards get destroyed in the process. Morals play no factor into these people's decisions at all, and they have no concern of what future consequences lay in store for us by continuing to support a company like nVidia while they do these things. Those people's purchases do nothing but act as a confirmation for nVidia that "Hey look, we can bully the nerds inbetween classes, in front of all the teachers and parents, and completely get away with it!", which in the end will teach them that it's "perfectly acceptable" to continue doing this shit since nVidia won't have to worry about making a profit.

I mean it's a bit of a "shame on you" to the companies who are buying into this, but at least in ASUS's case they're offsetting it by still making a brand to illustrate that AMD's products are important enough to deserve a recognizable brand. Whether it's a loophole that nVidia figured would be utilized or not, the bottom line is that it's a shame that AMD is being shoved aside so willingly. However, if we want them (AIBs) to stay in business it's a necessary evil in that regard. The real blame gets placed on these aforementioned "enthusiasts" who don't care where their money goes, because it's these people who we need to, as Kyle says, speak with their wallet. Unfortunately there are far too many of these careless (and often times uninformed) consumers around, and so these "enthusiasts" are only exacerbating matters further.

*sigh* Rant Finished.
 
There's a difference between "here's your choice" and "we are taking over your branding for our cards exclusively, and if you don't play ball, we will choke off your supplies and marketing money".

The first is just a choice; the second is extortion which at this level becomes racketeering, and is definitely against the law.

Not to mention that in most countries outside the US. Coke has been in court more then once and lost. Coke in many countries used to do things like lock supply in on fountain dispensers, and discounted or supplied coolers in exchange for exclusive supply deals. They where sued over it and lost. (well accept in the US... the courts there seem to have a higher tolerance for BS)
 
Hopefully this story is true and NVIDIA is able to completely keep this product off the market.

After all, it's only fair.
 
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