Monitor Rec. Off-axis viewing?

Kranium

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Yes I have searched, a lot. I am in the market for a new monitor as my current 19" Dell ( 1907FP) is really old and the 4:3 ratio is bugging me.

The issue I have is that I feel reviews make you want these impossible specs that you don't need. So a little guidance would be appreciated.

I watch a lot of movies at my PC and lean back (and thus down) in my seat. This TN monitor's contrast gets all crappy just a few degrees below horizontal. I know IPS has good off-axis viewing, but I have seen photos that make it look like its best side-to-side, not above/below head on. Am I out of luck in that regard? (I know I could just tilt it every time but I'm lazy :-P )

I play a lot of types of games and have never experienced input lag or ghosting etc.... So this is where I feel reviews might be blowing things out of proportion for me. This is the only LCD monitor I've ever had since I stuck with my CRT for so long. My lack of experience with LCDs makes me nervous.

I'm looking for a 24-27" monitor under $450 or so. Most signs point to the 2412 or something, but if a TN is all I'll need.... I'll save the cash and spend it on other components.

Only nit pick I may have is back light bleed. I have seen it in friends setups and that would be something that might bug me.


Thanks for any suggestions [H]-ers.
 

evilsofa

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For viewing below horizontal, IPS does not have the issues that a TN panel does. The difference is a night vs day difference; the IPS does not change significantly, while the TN (as you have observed) becomes unviewable.

The Dell U2412 is a very good monitor. Try it.
 

Outbreaker

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IPS Monitors have also problems like IPS-Glow and aggressive AG-Coating.

I had an IPS Monitor (LG IPS235P) and this IPS-Glow and aggressive AG-Counting ruined my movie experience.

I'm also using a CRT Monitor and hunting for a new good arounder Monitor, the best i have found is the 241P4QPYES with a AMVA-Panel (Most TV's have VA-Panels), but i still wait for a review of the new 273E3QHSB to decide what i should buy.
 
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Kranium

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That "ips glow" video was interesting. Almost the opposite of what I get now. Anyone care to comment on how common that is? Maybe this is something more prevalent in e-ips panels?
 
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evilsofa

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It's much less of a problem than the TN's off-axis viewing problem is, which is why most big-screen LCD TVs use IPS panels.

You'll see people here foaming at the mouth about issues with any LCD monitor or any of the three LCD panel types (IPS, TN and VA), because the fact is that there is no perfect LCD monitor. It's a matter of choosing which issues are less of a problem for what you want to do.
 

Medion

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I watch a lot of movies at my PC and lean back (and thus down) in my seat. This TN monitor's contrast gets all crappy just a few degrees below horizontal.

You have two options that will really do the trick for you.

1. VA (Vertical Alignment) panels - These guys have the opposite problem of TN/IPS in that their horizontal viewing angles aren't perfect, but their vertical viewing angles are outstanding. Newer panels have horizontal viewing angles that rival that of TN, so they're oustanding for watching movies. They also offer the deepest blacks, best contrast ratios, and have color reproduction on par with IPS. They would be the perfect monitor if it wasn't for their horrid ghosting, so if you do any gaming, stay FAR away from this kind of panel. Some people with acute eyes can even detect ghosting in movies on some VA panels. If all you do is browsing and media, then VA may be for you, but stay away if gaming.

2. Get a Samsung TN panel that supports Magic Angle. Most have a touch sensitive button that allows you to change the viewing angle on the fly. I just tested mine and found that "Lean Back 1" is the ideal mode for sitting at your desk watching a move. I tilted the monitor up and leaned back a little, and with this mode turned on it was like looking at the monitor straight on.

My local Best Buy has a few Sammys with this feature, so head in there and test one out. The models at my store are S23B550 and S27B550v (I owned two of the latter, returned due to issues with their speakers). For about $100 less, you can get the B350 versions, which are exactly the same minus the speakers and shitty DAC (different bezel too).
 

Kranium

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Thanks for the suggestions guys. That option on those Samsung monitors could be what I need.

Evilsofa, I know what you mean. It doesn't take much researching around here to start to feel that there is no perfect option....and the hyper critical reactions to what could be very minor issues makes it hard to tell what should and shouldn't matter in my own search for a good display.
 

Medion

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IPS does not have the issues that a TN panel does.
songht1.jpg
song2.jpg
song12.jpg
song14.jpg

And TN does not have the issues that an IPS panel does. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. While IPS is better all-around (and costs more), it's not a be-all-end-all.
 

evilsofa

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And TN does not have the issues that an IPS panel does. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. While IPS is better all-around (and costs more), it's not a be-all-end-all.

A spammer bot copied and pasted only part of a sentence that I wrote (and I have reported them), so it is not your fault that you are responding to an out-of-context phrase. The full sentence was: "For viewing below horizontal, IPS does not have the issues that a TN panel does."
 

Medion

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A spammer bot copied and pasted only part of a sentence that I wrote (and I have reported them), so it is not your fault that you are responding to an out-of-context phrase. The full sentence was: "For viewing below horizontal, IPS does not have the issues that a TN panel does."

I got the impression it was a spam bot after I saw his posts elsewhere. However, my idiocy got the best of me :)
 

Outbreaker

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That "ips glow" video was interesting. Almost the opposite of what I get now. Anyone care to comment on how common that is? Maybe this is something more prevalent in e-ips panels?

I had an S-IPS Monitor (LG IPS235P) and it had the same IPS-Glow like a e-IPS Monitor.

You have two options that will really do the trick for you.
1. VA (Vertical Alignment) panels - These guys have the opposite problem of TN/IPS in that their horizontal viewing angles aren't perfect, but their vertical viewing angles are outstanding. Newer panels have horizontal viewing angles that rival that of TN, so they're oustanding for watching movies. They also offer the deepest blacks, best contrast ratios, and have color reproduction on par with IPS. They would be the perfect monitor if it wasn't for their horrid ghosting, so if you do any gaming, stay FAR away from this kind of panel. Some people with acute eyes can even detect ghosting in movies on some VA panels. If all you do is browsing and media, then VA may be for you, but stay away if gaming.
Not really the Philips 241P4QPYES (AMVA Panel) has 7,2ms ghosting and the LG IPS235V (S-IPS Panel) has 14,7ms ghosting.
 
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Medion

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Not really the Philips 241P4QPYES (AMVA Panel) has 7,2ms ghosting and the LG IPS235V (S-IPS Panel) has 14,7ms ghosting.

I looked at those reviews, and while the IPS did have worse response times, the times you quoted were wrong. This is just an FYI, but input latency has NOTHING to do with ghosting. That's how long it takes for the screen to show a frame after an input action. Think delays between button presses in Guitar Hero. Both monitors measured under the magical 16.7ms for input latency, which is outstanding. That means <1 frame of input lag @ 60hz. They're essentially the same in that regard. However, the first one would qualify for 120hz based on that...if it weren't for the response times.

Those reviews show that in GtG transitions, the AMVA panel had a response time of 7.4ms vs. 16.6ms on the IPS panel. For BWB, it's 9.5 vs. 20.5. These are serious differences and not typical for either VA or IPS panels. If this monitor is available and affordable, I'd jump on it. Those response times are seriously better than most modern VA panels out there (which offer real world response over 25ms).
 

Outbreaker

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There is also a new one the Philips 273E3QHSB (AMVA Panel) a 27" and only 20&#8364; more, i hop we see a review about this Monitor i really need a new Monitor the LCD;s i had failed big time in replacing my CRT Monitor but this Philips AMVA Monitor look promising.
 
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calvieee

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Get one of those 27" Ips Lcd/Led from Korea. You can't beat 2560x1440 for $300-400bucks
 

Outbreaker

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The standard resolution this days is 1920X1080p so 2560x1440p is usesles for multimedia and for some people icons and text are to small on a 2560x1440p 27".Monitor.
And this cheap model of the 2560x1440p Koren Monitor don't have a color calibration option in the OSD.
 
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Outbreaker

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BenQ has also relesed 2 new AMVA Panel Monitors this month:
GW2450HM / Response Time(Tr+Tf) typ. 12ms, 4ms GTG / 180&#8364;
GW2750HM / Response Time(Tr+Tf) typ. 12ms, 4ms GTG / 280&#8364;

The Philips 241P4QPYES AMVA Panel Monitor had a good Response Time in the PRAD test and this Monitor was listed as Response Time(Tr+Tf) typ. 12ms, 6ms GTG.
 

Kranium

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Damn the advance of technology. I'm tired of waiting....but the more I wait, the better my options become!
 

tk-don

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17" and 19" LCDs are actually 5:4 (for some reason).
If you want to avoid as much of white glow as even possible, a used LCD2490WUXi can be obtained within your budget.
I would never consider an A-MVA as a replacement for a CRT, when it supposedly has more gamma shift than S-PVA (which I found to be quite horrible on the Eizo S2243). But if it's between IPS glow and VA gamma shifts, the choice would be very hard indeed.
 

Namelessme

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If it was me, I'd go with IPS or VA over TN. I've always found the vertical angles on TN panels god awful.

The Samsung TN magic angle thing may help, although I expect it still 'locks' you into one position. If you move your head around too much, the colors may still get messed up. If not a gamer, I also don't see much reason for a TN panel nowadays. Edit: Just noticed you said you play a lot of games. It may be worth seeing one in person then, to see how much of a viewing window you get.

As for IPS vs VA... that will be down to your preference. Vertical angle problems were always my issue, as I lean back/sit up a lot. On the VA panel I had (until it broke), that problem was fixed... it was great with vertical angles. Horizontal... so-so... got some shift, but nothing super terrible -- nothing I'd notice by normal head movements while remaining in my seat. Albeit mine is a 4:3, so there isn't much much horizontal to worry about.

As tk-don mentioned, a used LCD2490WUXi may be a good option. Otherwise, I'd expand his comparison to: IPS glow + heavy AG coating vs VA gamma shift + possible ghosting (if a gamer). It's up to your preference then... pick your poison.
 

Outbreaker

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But if it's between IPS glow and VA gamma shifts, the choice would be very hard indeed.
I for sure take VA gamma shifts over IPS-Glow.
I even had IPS-Glow in dark movie sitting in front of the screen. If you like black turing into purple then IPS is for you. :)

LG Flatron IPS235V (S-IPS) Completely black screen with maximum brightness setting
belichtung2-thumb.jpg


Philips 241P4QPYES (AMVA) Completely black screen with maximum brightness setting
ausleuchtung2-thumb.jpg


As tk-don mentioned, a used LCD2490WUXi may be a good option. Otherwise, I'd expand his comparison to: IPS glow + heavy AG coating vs VA gamma shift + possible ghosting (if a gamer). It's up to your preference then... pick your poison.
If you had read the topic then you would know that the new VA Monitors with Overdrive are just as fast as the IPS Monitors.
 
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Namelessme

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If you had read the topic then you would know that the new VA Monitors with Overdrive are just as fast as the IPS Monitors.

That's why I said 'possible' ghosting, as there are various flavors of VA out there. But I agree, those AMVA panels do look interesting.

I am curious how the gamma shift is on them though, and overall color coverage. The coverage wasn't the greatest on a Samsung AMVA I recall seeing on Prad. They certainly should have nice contrast/blacks though.

If glow averse, it's either the NEC w/polarizer or VA panel. Not sure if the OP has an issue with normal IPS glow, or primarily just bleed, however.
 

tk-don

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That's why I didn't buy an IPS monitor without the polarizer back in the days. Even my old DD-IPS laptop screen had better viewing angles than the S2243W, so I knew that if this was the "level" Samsung and LG were competing at.... it was either CRT or IPS with ATW-polarizer. Kind of frustrating.

The IPS235V is a good example. What did LG think of, when they decided to mass market cheap IPS panels ?! Probably just about money and brand.
The A-MVA Philips is a much better example, although the sides appear brighter. Personally, this ieeue/feature drove me nuts about the S2243W - both eyes did not see the same brightness of black, introducing some sort of "3D" effect, i.e. little perception of inky blacks. But again, if the IPS235V is the standard, then the A-MVA for sure. But not when the 2490 is within his budget (much more features and much better IQ for sRGB - if the Philips and NEC prad reviews can be compared)... Not that the Philips LCD isn't good and doesn't give much bang for the buck, because it is and it does.
 
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Kranium

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If glow averse, it's either the NEC w/polarizer or VA panel. Not sure if the OP has an issue with normal IPS glow, or primarily just bleed, however.

My issue is I have next to no experience with IPS monitors. So I don't really know what I'll have an issue with. It's looking more and more like this might be a PITA trial-and-error thing to really get my $'s worth.
 

blackhand1001

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You have two options that will really do the trick for you.

1. VA (Vertical Alignment) panels - These guys have the opposite problem of TN/IPS in that their horizontal viewing angles aren't perfect, but their vertical viewing angles are outstanding. Newer panels have horizontal viewing angles that rival that of TN, so they're oustanding for watching movies. They also offer the deepest blacks, best contrast ratios, and have color reproduction on par with IPS. They would be the perfect monitor if it wasn't for their horrid ghosting, so if you do any gaming, stay FAR away from this kind of panel. Some people with acute eyes can even detect ghosting in movies on some VA panels. If all you do is browsing and media, then VA may be for you, but stay away if gaming.

2. Get a Samsung TN panel that supports Magic Angle. Most have a touch sensitive button that allows you to change the viewing angle on the fly. I just tested mine and found that "Lean Back 1" is the ideal mode for sitting at your desk watching a move. I tilted the monitor up and leaned back a little, and with this mode turned on it was like looking at the monitor straight on.

My local Best Buy has a few Sammys with this feature, so head in there and test one out. The models at my store are S23B550 and S27B550v (I owned two of the latter, returned due to issues with their speakers). For about $100 less, you can get the B350 versions, which are exactly the same minus the speakers and shitty DAC (different bezel too).

VA panels still have much better horizontal angles than TN panels. Significantly better. I personally prefer them over IPS as the glow on IPS is more annoying than the very minor gamma shift that VA has. Good quality va panels imo have better viewing angles than IPS anyway.
 

Namelessme

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You may be able to check some out to a limited degree in stores. You can look at the iMac in stores, which has an IPS screen, albeit in less than ideal conditions (blasting store lights). Best Buy may have some LG IPS screens too (not exactly best models though).

Just make sure if you order a monitor, that they have a good return policy. I think in general, Amazon and Buy.com have relatively painless return policies.

If you order from Dell, returning can be iffy... restocking fee unless you state something is wrong with it. When I returned my U2412 to Dell, I described my IPS glow as glow from the sides/corner of panel. The tech person considered that backlight bleed, so no extra fee for return.

If buying something from eBay, it's basically cross your fingers and hope for the best.
 

bbordwell

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If you are not that picky, just get anything that is not TN, you will be happy with it. No display will be perfect at off angles but only a TN panel becomes completely useless at extremely small vertical angles. I have a 1907fp and a u2412m and watching movies from a downward angle is one of my favorite things about the u2412m.
 
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