Mixed News / Analysis re: OLED 32 inch Panels (TLDR: Monitors more likely than TVs, but not that likely)

DarkSideA8

Gawd
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
755
This is an interesting article: https://www.techradar.com/au/news/oled-tvs-probably-wont-get-any-smaller-heres-why

It's pretty much focused on OLED tech, but it does touch on why monitors are expensive in general and why the sizes are what they are (glass, waste and consumer expectation). The gist is that hoping for a relatively cheap 4k 32 inch OLED TV is not likely to be realized. However, industry does recognize they can charge a premium for a monitor (32 inch monitor costs as much as a 55 inch TV) - so a 32 inch OLED monitor??? mmmmmaybe.

The takeaway is that OLED is likely reserved for the big screen TVs, and a very few 42 - 48 inch class panels. It does not say 'never' WRT 32 inch 4k OLED monitors... but it also does not seem bullish on the prospect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this

Sancus

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,043
That article is just talking about LG's particular OLED manufacturing process, it doesn't at all rule out products like the already-announced JOLED-based 27" and 32" LG OLED monitors which use an entirely different process.
 

N4CR

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
4,772
Looks like LG CX and descendants are the only way forward without touching small and low value for money monitors..
 

DarkSideA8

Gawd
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
755
That article is just talking about LG's particular OLED manufacturing process, it doesn't at all rule out products like the already-announced JOLED-based 27" and 32" LG OLED monitors which use an entirely different process.
JOLED coming into the market definitely offers some future hope for quality desk-sized monitors, and I like the RGB structure, having heard that WRGB can make text annoying. However AFAIK they're still only producing 60 Hz. So the announcement by LG is great for content creation and shows promise for gamers that a 32 inch fast refresh OLED might happen sometime in the future... Sadly I don't think it's a near future.

Acer Asus et.al. showcased their gaming quality 32 inch IPS displays at CES 2020 - and we still don't have a 'for sale' date
 
Last edited:

kasakka

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
2,240
The article just plain ignores the ones where LG has expressed interest in developing smaller OLED panels, probably the compete with JOLED. If LG can transition to inkjet printing then OLED cost could greatly reduce.

The person they interviewed it clearly approaches it from the point of view of TVs. Small TVs are not big sellers which is why it's hard to get anything smaller than 43" nowadays as a TV and the ones on the small TVs on the market can be largely described as "rubbish" from an enthusiasts point of view. Expecting 32" TVs with specs similar to LG CX is unlikely to happen. 42" model could still go either way - the ease of just cramming in existing hardware vs making their monitor hardware to work with OLED. Honestly I would love to get a 42" OLED with DP, USB-C, HDMI 2.1, PbP mode...

Eventually I expect LG will combine their monitor tech with OLED panels. They have most of the things needed already in place for the 42" model and could leverage what their gaming monitors contain for something smaller in the 27-32" range. Probably not coming in a few years as it's still a panel production issue.
 

MistaSparkul

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
1,677
After spending YEARS hoping that someone would release a damn 32" monitor with all the monitor features I want (High Hz, VRR, HDR) whether it's OLED or even just a high zone FALD LCD screen, I've completely given up at this point and have now gotten used to my CX48 as a monitor after using it for the last 9 months. Securing an HDMI 2.1 GPU was the final piece of the puzzle and once I was able to unlock 4k120hz 10bit 444 on it, I ditched all LCD screens in my main setup and no longer have any problems using a single "giant" screen as my monitor. The new 42" OLED panels will make for an even better experience once they are out.
 

DarkSideA8

Gawd
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
755
After spending YEARS hoping that someone would release a damn 32" monitor with all the monitor features I want (High Hz, VRR, HDR) whether it's OLED or even just a high zone FALD LCD screen, I've completely given up at this point and have now gotten used to my CX48 as a monitor after using it for the last 9 months. Securing an HDMI 2.1 GPU was the final piece of the puzzle and once I was able to unlock 4k120hz 10bit 444 on it, I ditched all LCD screens in my main setup and no longer have any problems using a single "giant" screen as my monitor. The new 42" OLED panels will make for an even better experience once they are out.

How's the text clarity?

Also - what distance are your eyes from the screen?
 

MistaSparkul

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
1,677
How's the text clarity?

Also - what distance are your eyes from the screen?

It isn't the best especially considering my previous display was a 27" 4k Acer X27 monitor with relatively high PPI compared to the CX. But after enabling 444 chroma and messing around with Cleartype a bit I've gotten it to an "acceptable" level for regular use that is limited to Youtube, Discord, etc. I don't actually do any real work on my CX so the text clarity is useable for my scenario. I sit around 3 ft away from the display.
 

kasakka

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
2,240
How's the text clarity?

Also - what distance are your eyes from the screen?
I use mine for both work and play and it's fine. I use 120-125% scaling at a viewing distance of about 1m. MacOS is better for this as its "no font smoothing" option just plain works better. But Windows is still ok. Using DPI scaling helps a ton, I would not use this at 100% scaling as either text is too tiny for my viewing distance or it isn't sharp enough if you sit closer (which also means turning your head to see a display this big).
 

DarkSideA8

Gawd
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
755
Thanks guys - I think I will continue to hold out for a 32, hopefully later this year. Truth is a larger screen is a nice to have rather than a need to have, so the only thing I'm up against is my own impatience for what I want.

If worse comes to worse, I can always sacrifice the refresh rate... It's just that I don't want to.
 

illli

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
1,376
“Whereas 55-inch 6-up reaches 90% glass utilization and 48-inch 8-up reaches 91%, a standard configuration for 42-inch (also 8-up) achieves only 70% utilization," the report states.


This is what was more or less said by Vincent Teoh, basically LG has 2 fabs and they are both "8.5G" (the 8.5 refers to the size of panels LG can produce) 2500mm x 2200mm. Before they adopted something called multi model glass technology, there was a limit on what could be cut and so a lot of waste and so the cost per TV was pretty high.

(before multi model technology) only three 64 inch panels with a 64% utilization rate w/ lot of discarded material, and so the costs were higher
(after) The can produce 2x 48 inch panels for every two 77 inch panels. Utilization % is higher, but the substrate is still pretty small, and so this is why you don't really see the 48 inch OLED tv discounted much.

This year LG will have an 83 inch OLED tv, so I assume the same applies, that only two 42 inch tvs for every two 83 inch TVs, I'm guessing if/when that 42inch tv comes out that it won't be too much cheaper vs the 48.

But I think once LG switches to 10.5 G fab, the glass substrate is larger, so panel output will be more, and in theory prices will go down because utilization will be around 93% according to https://wikimovel.com/index.php/Multi_model_glass_display_sizes
 

AzixTGO

n00b
Joined
Feb 21, 2016
Messages
49
The LG oled monitors are ridiculously priced

“Whereas 55-inch 6-up reaches 90% glass utilization and 48-inch 8-up reaches 91%, a standard configuration for 42-inch (also 8-up) achieves only 70% utilization," the report states.


This is what was more or less said by Vincent Teoh, basically LG has 2 fabs and they are both "8.5G" (the 8.5 refers to the size of panels LG can produce) 2500mm x 2200mm. Before they adopted something called multi model glass technology, there was a limit on what could be cut and so a lot of waste and so the cost per TV was pretty high.

(before multi model technology) only three 64 inch panels with a 64% utilization rate w/ lot of discarded material, and so the costs were higher
(after) The can produce 2x 48 inch panels for every two 77 inch panels. Utilization % is higher, but the substrate is still pretty small, and so this is why you don't really see the 48 inch OLED tv discounted much.

This year LG will have an 83 inch OLED tv, so I assume the same applies, that only two 42 inch tvs for every two 83 inch TVs, I'm guessing if/when that 42inch tv comes out that it won't be too much cheaper vs the 48.

But I think once LG switches to 10.5 G fab, the glass substrate is larger, so panel output will be more, and in theory prices will go down because utilization will be around 93% according to https://wikimovel.com/index.php/Multi_model_glass_display_sizes
noob question incoming

Is there some smaller screen size where the utilization would be higher? When I heard about this it sounded like they were simply prioritizing larger screens and using what's left for smaller ones. If the math worked out that you'd get 7-8 32" screens and a higher overall utilization from what you could get from 2 x 48 + 2 x 77, would that not mean dedicated manufacturing of 32" monitors could be cheaper?

Assuming the math just doesn't work out. If the technology was dominate for monitors I would expect they'd make it work.
 

DarkSideA8

Gawd
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
755
The LG oled monitors are ridiculously priced


noob question incoming

Is there some smaller screen size where the utilization would be higher? When I heard about this it sounded like they were simply prioritizing larger screens and using what's left for smaller ones. If the math worked out that you'd get 7-8 32" screens and a higher overall utilization from what you could get from 2 x 48 + 2 x 77, would that not mean dedicated manufacturing of 32" monitors could be cheaper?

Assuming the math just doesn't work out. If the technology was dominate for monitors I would expect they'd make it work.
From what I've been able to glean, its all about anticipated market. As in, there really has not been a demand for 32 inch monitors. (Monitors, esp. gaming monitors are a sliver of the TV market). No one wants a 32 inch TV. 24/27 are 'comfortable' 'usual' sizes for monitors - until recently, people were happy with a 27" 1440 monitor... but now there's interest in 4k, which doesn't really fit the 27" form factor very well (with Windows scaling, etc.). So, 32 is a 'developing' and 'anticipated' 4k market in the monitor space long after it was abandoned as a TV FF. That is causing some head scratching as they try to figure out how to tap that market given the yields they get from glass destined for TVs. No one wants to leave money on the table - but no one wants to build something that wont sell, either.

IOW - lots of industry people thinking there will be demand for 32s... and waiting for some other shmuck to prove them right or wrong. What happens over the course of the latter half / quarter of this year will tell the story.
 

AzixTGO

n00b
Joined
Feb 21, 2016
Messages
49
That makes sense. From a consumer's perspective it might look silly to not go as hard as possible with the best technology possible. "obviously I'd buy OLED monitors instead of those inferior VA, IPS, TN monitors."
But they have their business to take care of. Guess its also why there are oled phones since forever and even laptops now. Larger clearer markets.
 

kasakka

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
2,240
The LG oled monitors are ridiculously priced


noob question incoming

Is there some smaller screen size where the utilization would be higher? When I heard about this it sounded like they were simply prioritizing larger screens and using what's left for smaller ones. If the math worked out that you'd get 7-8 32" screens and a higher overall utilization from what you could get from 2 x 48 + 2 x 77, would that not mean dedicated manufacturing of 32" monitors could be cheaper?

Assuming the math just doesn't work out. If the technology was dominate for monitors I would expect they'd make it work.
It's still going to be harder to build displays with smaller pixels. Smartphone screens get there by using the compromises of pentile OLEDs and due to sheer volume can deal with any yield issues.

By comparison the monitor market is smaller and the same for the small TV market. If you go look at small TVs in a store, they are all really crappy 32" models that were probably designed years ago. Just massively worse than the ones available in 50+ inch size.

For a lot of people 27" monitors are "huge" so that has stayed as the defacto size for years regardless of resolution. 32" 4K LCDs have been around for years but this year is the first time someone is making high refresh rate gaming displays in that size/res combo.

OLEDs will not get there for quite a while. The first 27" OLED panel comes from JOLED and is going to be a niche product. LG is planning to release a 42" model next year and seems to be looking into smaller sizes too if they feel confident enough that they can be made without burn-in and yields being significant issues.
 

sethk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
1,920
Samsung has been making AMOLED panels for laptops for years now (in addition to phone and tablet), from 12" to 15" (AFAIK) in different aspect ratios. Their manufacturing process is relatively different from LGs and JOLEDs, and I still feel like they could release something interesting. 3 x 14" 3000x2000 OLEDs (like the one in this years HP x360 14") would give you an ultrawide 9000x2000 screen! Samsung is also moving to 90hz for one of their laptop panels which is a step in the right direction, unlike JOLED. I hope they scale up their manufacturing as Samsung Display (a separate unit from Samsung Electronics) is in the midst of a hard reorg of all their LCD fabs into OLED fabs for TV, using very new tech. Hopefully some of that can trickle down to usable monitors.
Another thought experiment - a 4k 48" panel could be cut into 4x 24" FHD panels at the same 1/4 panel cost.
 
Top