Microsoft's October Update Failure Is Holding the Whole PC Industry Back

Ryoohki360

Gawd
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
605
My computer updated to 1809 day one. But again i don't use MY DOCUMENT for 22 years of stuff! LOL
 

FlawleZ

Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
986
I updated my 3 laptops to 1809 the other day. wasn't worried about data loss as there isn't anything really stored on them. I hardly use them, I usually turn them on to install Windows Updates, then put them away, lol.
I have some beach front property in Nebraska I'll sell you. :-P
 

DeathFromBelow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
7,316
Switch to Ubuntu Linux today and stop wasting your time with this garbage.
I'd love to see computer vendors start dropping Windows and start bundling Ubuntu. The UI is better than Windows, there's a robust game and software library, and hardware support has been very good for some time now. Users don't want Windows anymore.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,155
No dude, just no. As long as you need to knock down one thing to build your own up, you own is going no where. Try to see if the OS can stand on it's own, without saying: "Yes but, it's not Windows!"
Bingo. Desktop Linux fans have been promoting it for decades with "It's not Windows!" and that simply hasn't worked and that's mostly due to the fact that the large majority of folks Windows does its job at least well enough. Obviously not without issues but not to the point where you have to throw everything away with Windows and start over. I do think that some have started to get that message. If switching to Linux means throwing away a lot of software and starting over, forget about it. That's a big reason why Valve developed Steam Play and truly ironic that currently the future of desktop Linux gaming is all about Windows compatibility.

At any rate, everything has it's own set of issues. If Linux were that "perfect" solution on the desktop, no one be using Windows today.
 

heatlesssun

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Nov 5, 2005
Messages
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Right, Windows helpfully deletes everything for you.
Sure, because esoteric bugs don't exist in Linux. I upgraded 10 machines to 1809 and nothing got deleted. And that's the thing about desktop Linux. There's a "robust" software and game library, UNTIL that thing that doesn't work or is wonky. And then it's "No one uses VR." or "Libre Office is just as good as Microsoft Office." or "I've never had a problem with drivers under Linux." or "So that game doesn't work under Linux, there's many more that do."
 

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,630
I'm like, totally raging against the machine, and decided to put 1809 into deployment at work on day one. It's still the default new Win10 installation. Since it's only on clean installs, the Documents thing is irrelevant, and I'm kinda betting my typical user base isn't unzipping stuff into folders they can't, so I didn't see any big issue. I'm also 100% certain, since they did have 1809 in WU briefly, and at least one person at my work got it that way, that they will stay on that build and do a cumulative update + updated ISO.
 

DeathFromBelow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
7,316
That an Ubuntu evangelist themselves isn't actually aware of mainstream vendors who already DO offer Ubuntu.. well, that shows how much anyone really cares.
I'm very much aware of it, but you can't go down to Walmart and pick up a cheap Ubuntu laptop like you can with Chromebooks. I think customers would benefit from vendors dropping Windows across the board.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
11,642
I'm very much aware of it, but you can't go down to Walmart and pick up a cheap Ubuntu laptop like you can with Chromebooks. I think customers would benefit from vendors dropping Windows across the board.
If by dropping, you mean going out of business, not sure how that benefits anyone.
 

SuperSubZero

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Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,630
I'm very much aware of it, but you can't go down to Walmart and pick up a cheap Ubuntu laptop like you can with Chromebooks. I think customers would benefit from vendors dropping Windows across the board.
I'd say it's a safe bet that very, very few people considering buying a computer at Walmart will decide not to because they don't offer Ubuntu.

The PC market isn't going to stop declining as long as tablets and phones keep creeping into realms exclusive to computers. Right now one of the last bastions is gaming, and people ain't wiping Windows off their SLI'd GTXwxyz rigs in favor of Ubuntu en masse. As long as Windows has the high-end gaming market (which has to keep shifting up), and people will still -mass dislike- "don't you people have phones?", Windows is here to stay.
 

BloodyIron

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Jul 11, 2005
Messages
3,439
I'm sorry but were you trying to convince me of something? I don't think what you tried to convey made any sense...

Okay, back to gaming on Linux! See you in Overwatch ;)

No dude, just no. As long as you need to knock down one thing to build your own up, you own is going no where. Try to see if the OS can stand on it's own, without saying: "Yes but, it's not Windows!"
 

BloodyIron

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
3,439
I don't see "dropping" Windows any time soon as an option. Adding Ubuntu as an option, that's happening more and more, like with Dell.

The thing is, many computer repair/sales shops have exclusivity contracts with Microsoft, wherein they are legally required NOT to work on systems with Linux.

It's bullshit, but fortunately brings me business! :D

I'd love to see computer vendors start dropping Windows and start bundling Ubuntu. The UI is better than Windows, there's a robust game and software library, and hardware support has been very good for some time now. Users don't want Windows anymore.
 

Burticus

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
4,178
1803 working fine here.

Could you please offer me Win 7 Pro x64 as an option while your Win 10 is busted down on the side of the road. I would even pay extra.
Isn't Win 10 pro downgrade compatible to 7 pro? Shake the internet and see what happens.

If not, I'm sure there is someone in the FS/FT forum that will hook you up with all the Win 7 keys you can handle for dirt cheap.
 

Danny Dawg

Gawd
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
541
1803 working fine here.



Isn't Win 10 pro downgrade compatible to 7 pro? Shake the internet and see what happens.

If not, I'm sure there is someone in the FS/FT forum that will hook you up with all the Win 7 keys you can handle for dirt cheap.

It is the driver compatibility that concerns me on a downgrade. I like to see them install the Win 7 at their end so I know the drivers are there.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
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Messages
44,155
The thing is, many computer repair/sales shops have exclusivity contracts with Microsoft, wherein they are legally required NOT to work on systems with Linux.
I don't think this is true, at least in the US, as the anti-trust suit of the 90's to early 2000's prohibited these kinds exclusionary contracts by Microsoft.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,155
Major concern about why this hardware only works with latest win 10 update?
It should all work fine with older versions of Windows 10 and prior versions, it's just that the vendor validation was done against test versions of 1809. One exception being RTX ray tracing that needs DX 12 extensions available only in 1809 and later versions of Windows 10.
 

Red Falcon

[H]F Junkie
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
10,267
This really shows how these "Operating System as a service" and "just in time OS" business practices can literally hold the whole industry back.
When it works, it's great, but when it doesn't, it is a show stopper which can be potentially devastation to many businesses and individuals world-wide which depend on it daily due to razor-thin margins.
 

LightsOut41

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 5, 2017
Messages
457
Dona Sarkar needs to be the first person shown the door - how she still draws a paycheck is one for the ages.
And it's evident from her Twitter she STILL doesn't fucking understand the magnitude of her failure.
 

heatlesssun

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Messages
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I'm guessing the 'October' update will be released this coming week...Tuesday is my prediction
What I was thinking, the fixes to the file deletion and Zip problem have been insider builds for a few weeks now and I'm guessing that Microsoft is being VERY careful about a re-release. Thing is it looks like Microsoft is doing to right thing and being careful but it's also being SILENT about it and that might be as big of an issue as the problems themselves.
 

polonyc2

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Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
17,367
What I was thinking, the fixes to the file deletion and Zip problem have been insider builds for a few weeks now and I'm guessing that Microsoft is being VERY careful about a re-release. Thing is it looks like Microsoft is doing to right thing and being careful but it's also being SILENT about it and that might be as big of an issue as the problems themselves.
yeah they seemed to have fixed the big issues so I thought it would have been re-released by now...unless there's another major issue(s) that they haven't disclosed yet
 

BloodyIron

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Jul 11, 2005
Messages
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I've personally spoken with store managers that have told me this fact. This is reality, and if you think MS doesn't do anti-competitive behavior, I have a plot of land to sell you.

I don't think this is true, at least in the US, as the anti-trust suit of the 90's to early 2000's prohibited these kinds exclusionary contracts by Microsoft.
 

Tawnos

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Sep 9, 2001
Messages
3,807
I've personally spoken with store managers that have told me this fact. This is reality, and if you think MS doesn't do anti-competitive behavior, I have a plot of land to sell you.
I've personally talked to police officers who have told me, as fact, that you can get a DUI on a bike in WA. That is despite there being both a law explicitly preventing that as well as court cases that both say that isn't true.

People will commonly make claims of fact that aren't backed by nor based on anything but their own lack of knowledge, misunderstanding, or conflation of another place or time it was true. You're making a claim about "anti-competitive behavior", what's your evidence?
 

SickBeast

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
498
I did a clean install of the new build on my laptop tonight. It went off without a hitch. It looks like MS *hopefully* got this right this time. Unfortunately there are no second chances when it comes to peoples' data if they did not keep a backup. I have a feeling we will see a class action lawsuit over this (and rightfully so).

New nVidia drivers today. The word is that RTX will be enabled once the deluxe version of BFV is released.
 

BloodyIron

2[H]4U
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Jul 11, 2005
Messages
3,439
Considering the person I was talking to directly deals with MS Reps, they are in fact, telling me the truth. Your disbelief is your own. And this store manager and myself have a good working relationship, so this isn't some off the cuff conversation, this was after an extended period of working together with them...

But whatever man, you want to plug your ears, hear no evil, okay...

I've personally talked to police officers who have told me, as fact, that you can get a DUI on a bike in WA. That is despite there being both a law explicitly preventing that as well as court cases that both say that isn't true.

People will commonly make claims of fact that aren't backed by nor based on anything but their own lack of knowledge, misunderstanding, or conflation of another place or time it was true. You're making a claim about "anti-competitive behavior", what's your evidence?
 

Tawnos

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
3,807
Considering the person I was talking to directly deals with MS Reps, they are in fact, telling me the truth. Your disbelief is your own. And this store manager and myself have a good working relationship, so this isn't some off the cuff conversation, this was after an extended period of working together with them...

But whatever man, you want to plug your ears, hear no evil, okay...
... and you want to repeat a lie because it plays to your preconceived ideas.

For fuck's sake, we have Linux running on Windows - does that mean those repair shops can't work on Windows boxes because they're "legally required NOT to work on systems with Linux"? We endorse linux images and provide "interoperability & configuration guidance and troubleshooting" for third-party software, including linux.

Think a little bit before you repeat bullshit.

Code:
tawnos@tawnos-laptop:~$ uname -a
Linux tawnos-laptop 4.4.0-17763-Microsoft #55-Microsoft Sat Oct 06 18:05:00 PST 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

tawnos@tawnos-laptop:~$ ls /mnt/c
ls: cannot read symbolic link '/mnt/c/Documents and Settings': Permission denied
ls: cannot access '/mnt/c/hiberfil.sys': Permission denied
ls: cannot access '/mnt/c/pagefile.sys': Permission denied
ls: cannot access '/mnt/c/swapfile.sys': Permission denied
1dd03eb9691ad85d72f590dbc98e      Config.Msi              OneDriveTemp         $Recycle.Bin
29f6bc9ee6cd3f6dfa7c              Debuggers               pagefile.sys         SfDevCluster
3a62b3792edd7c7213e4f6            Dev                     PerfLogs             swapfile.sys
642de1637994482e9ef87cde86        Documents and Settings  ProgramData          SymCache
8260534015d2144094d2bb            DRIVERS                 Program Files        System Volume Information
8aac6e30e8139ce904006e            fa7c0f32c174edd9c8e52f  Program Files (x86)  Tools
9568feb58b7b9e895b03541f4263      hiberfil.sys            Python27             Users
9857faff331485d84a                Intel                   Python36             Windows
a7f944f789d11b95a3c14ab197f370e8  MSOTraceLite            Python37             Windows.old
CocosCreator                      NVIDIA                  Recovery
 

BloodyIron

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
3,439
Are you completely ignorant to the fact Microsoft has been sued multiple times for anti-trust?

I'm done here, clearly you can't handle truth from the horse's mouth.

... and you want to repeat a lie because it plays to your preconceived ideas.

For fuck's sake, we have Linux running on Windows - does that mean those repair shops can't work on Windows boxes because they're "legally required NOT to work on systems with Linux"? We endorse linux images and provide "interoperability & configuration guidance and troubleshooting" for third-party software, including linux.

Think a little bit before you repeat bullshit.

Code:
tawnos@tawnos-laptop:~$ uname -a
Linux tawnos-laptop 4.4.0-17763-Microsoft #55-Microsoft Sat Oct 06 18:05:00 PST 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

tawnos@tawnos-laptop:~$ ls /mnt/c
ls: cannot read symbolic link '/mnt/c/Documents and Settings': Permission denied
ls: cannot access '/mnt/c/hiberfil.sys': Permission denied
ls: cannot access '/mnt/c/pagefile.sys': Permission denied
ls: cannot access '/mnt/c/swapfile.sys': Permission denied
1dd03eb9691ad85d72f590dbc98e      Config.Msi              OneDriveTemp         $Recycle.Bin
29f6bc9ee6cd3f6dfa7c              Debuggers               pagefile.sys         SfDevCluster
3a62b3792edd7c7213e4f6            Dev                     PerfLogs             swapfile.sys
642de1637994482e9ef87cde86        Documents and Settings  ProgramData          SymCache
8260534015d2144094d2bb            DRIVERS                 Program Files        System Volume Information
8aac6e30e8139ce904006e            fa7c0f32c174edd9c8e52f  Program Files (x86)  Tools
9568feb58b7b9e895b03541f4263      hiberfil.sys            Python27             Users
9857faff331485d84a                Intel                   Python36             Windows
a7f944f789d11b95a3c14ab197f370e8  MSOTraceLite            Python37             Windows.old
CocosCreator                      NVIDIA                  Recovery
 

Tawnos

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
3,807
Are you completely ignorant to the fact Microsoft has been sued multiple times for anti-trust?

I'm done here, clearly you can't handle truth from the horse's mouth.
What you are spewing came from the other end of the horse.

If you had evidence, you could share a case or something else beyond "my friend said" to show that we have any such "tied house" policies. Back up your claims with some data, or shut up and stop making defamatory claims.
 
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