Microsoft working on bringing low level API from Xbone to windows

[Michaelius]

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

in Yoda voice:

Begun, the Api War has

Also no Mantle on xbone:

We are very excited that with the launch of Xbox One, we can now bring the latest generation of Direct3D 11 to console. The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality. Other graphics APIs such as OpenGL and AMD’s Mantle are not available on Xbox One.

 

[Romale23]

woh, awesome

 

[Tup3x]

This good is.

 

[Unknown-One]

Well, that goes a ways towards debunking the whole "mantle will be used on every console, therefor games will be easier to port and be super AMD optimized" rumors that have been floating around.

And so much for DirectX being "stagnant." They can't let DirectX fall behind when it's the ONLY API that the Xbox One can use

 

[algore]

Interesting. Can you provide any granularity or color regarding if Microsoft would be likely to use amd chips in phones? I heard some things in my circle about microsoft tendering a buyout.

 

[Romale23]

i LITERALLY just bitched about directx being stagnet and the like, like LITERALLY in the mantle thread

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

in Yoda voice:

Begun, the Api War has

Also no Mantle on xbone:

I think you misunderstood the article.

Microsoft is porting games from consoles to DX 11.2. DX 11.2 is not a low level API. Its faster though then DX 11 in BF4 according to Dice (though slower then Mantle in BF4). Nothing new or unexpected there, since the new consoles were expected to give finally give DX 11 ports.

It doesn't have low-level hardware support as Mantle, so those optimizations developers made for consoles will disappear in a console -> DX 11.2 port.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

I think you misunderstood the article.

Microsoft is porting games from consoles to DX 11.2. DX 11.2 is not a low level API. Its faster though then DX 11 in BF4 according to Dice (though slower then Mantle in BF4). Nothing new or unexpected there, since the new consoles were expected to give finally give DX 11 ports.

It doesn't have low-level hardware support as Mantle, so those optimizations developers made for consoles will disappear in a console -> DX 11.2 port.

Even worse MS is saying you need to buy Windows 8 , no API wars nothing else then pure marketing BS.

In reality MS could have made changes regarding to closer thin layer itself for the last 5 years at least. To push their "new" OS suddenly something happens.

lip service....

Also no Mantle on xbone:

It is not called Mantle on the Xbox one . But in reality this is the scenario:

PS4 BF4 optimized vs Xbox1 BF4 slower DX version

How can you cripple your own userbase even more when your hardware is already slower your games are going to be an outright disappointment.
Good PR right? Or do you think that MS will get the source for each game and optimize them?

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

Even worse MS is saying you need to buy Windows 8 , no API wars nothing else then pure marketing BS.

In reality MS could have made changes regarding to closer thin layer itself for the last 5 years at least. To push their "new" OS suddenly something happens.

lip service....

Thats true. You need Windows 8 to access DX 11.2 features. Win 7 and below doesn't support DX 11.2. Thats why BF 4 (11.1) will be faster in Windows 8:

Johan Andersson ‏@repi 8. okt
So expect some improvements in the next #BF4 OpenBeta patch. Though Win8 w/ our DX11.1 backend is definitely the fastest path (until Mantle)
https://twitter.com/repi

Mantle will support Xbone's DirectX HLSL and low-level API without the need for DX 11.2 API:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn

 

[dcmo]

You're not be going to be able to get away from the fact that it is AMD hardware and it's not Microsoft who is designing the games. If developers are going to optimize the games for the consoles, it is going to have to be written for the hardware and the architecture that is there which is AMD. If Microsoft doesn't want that to happen, then they are going to end up getting their a** kicked by Sony as who is going to buy a console that is more expensive and quite obviously inferior. Any low level API specifically designed for NVIDIA isn't going to work all that well on the consoles at least in comparison to game versions that are specifically optimized for AMD; there isn't any developer that is going to do it unless NVIDIA is paying them to and then you are going to still have the fact that the console version isn't going to look as good as something that is optimized for AMD.

 

[Yakk]

Hmm, I do not think "close to the metal" means the same thing to micro$oft as it does to most people who have coded themselves, especially on older machines...

Mantle still looks pretty safe in terms of potential performance gains.

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

Hmm, I do not think "close to the metal" means the same thing to micro$oft as it does to most people...

Mantle still looks pretty safe in terms of potential performance gains.

Xbone has low-level hardware access, but also with DirectX HLSL. Its the superset of DX 11.2 in Xbone he's probably talking about when he says "close to metal", not Windows DX 11.2, which isn't remotely a close-to-metal API.

Mantle on the other hand has low-level hardware access AND Directx HLSL support, which is why its been speculated of how close the API really is to the Xbone API:

"What’s not being said, but what becomes increasingly hinted at as we read through AMD’s material, is not just that Mantle is a low level API, but rather Mantle is the low level API. As in it’s either a direct copy or a very close derivative of the Xbox One’s low level graphics API. "
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn

 

[Yakk]

It doesn't have low-level hardware support as Mantle, so those optimizations developers made for consoles will disappear in a console -> DX 11.2 port.

I would think that is something M$ wants to disappear to have the console keep an edge...

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

I would think that is something M$ wants to disappear to have the console keep an edge...

Having low-level extentions in DX is something I believe would be too costly for MS vs. the benefits. DX is very much tied into the OS and I think it would be too much for them to update and maintain those extentions for existing and future hardware.

I believe there is a bigger chance that MS will start to push X86/64 tablets with Windows 8 os and Mantle support for some games then MS creating low-level hardware support for DX in Windows.

 

[Michaelius]

I think you misunderstood the article.

Microsoft is porting games from consoles to DX 11.2. DX 11.2 is not a low level API. Its faster though then DX 11 in BF4 according to Dice (though slower then Mantle in BF4). Nothing new or unexpected there, since the new consoles were expected to give finally give DX 11 ports.

It doesn't have low-level hardware support as Mantle, so those optimizations developers made for consoles will disappear in a console -> DX 11.2 port.

I was going by this fragment

We’re also working with our ISV and IHV partners on future efforts, including bringing the lightweight runtime and tooling capabilities of the Xbox One Direct3D implementation to Windows, and identifying the next generation of advanced 3D graphics technologies

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

I was going by this fragment

That fragment has nothing to do with low-level API. Windows won't get a low-level DX 11.2 port. Only the high-level DX 11.2 and only for Windows 8.

 

[Stoly]

I've said this since day 1, the xbox 360 uses a framework and DX for the most part. Its no different for the Xbone except its now DX11.