Microsoft Will Make Zero Profit from the Xbox One X at $499

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

    Messages:
    10,956
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    All of those scenarios could be served by a $249 Xbox One S - half the price. Play the same games, and same niche UHD blurays. And have $249 left over to buy a PS4.

    Nobody including Microsoft has been able to make a compelling case why the X is worth paying double, other than paper specs.
     
    Flogger23m, jnemesh and Snowdog like this.
  2. face2palm

    face2palm Gawd

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    MS could include a gold brick and you'd still whine about it.
     
    Nihilus1, TripleAgent77 and Armenius like this.
  3. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

    Messages:
    17,478
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    FTFY.
     
  4. jnemesh

    jnemesh [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,084
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    I paid $500 for my 3DO...and even THAT was painful. Tell me, how many 3DOs sold? Total? And how were sales of the PS3 at $500? How were the sales of the Xbox One at $500? Mark my words, this will TANK at a $500 price point! Casuals will buy the PS4 or Xbox One S...and "hardcore" gamers will buy a new PC or graphics card. The remaining guys in the middle will buy EITHER a PS4 Pro or the Xbox One X...and those people are such a small percentage of the overall market that it will make ZERO difference to the end result. Xbox is doomed.
     
  5. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    18,566
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Or even gasp, document authoring and spreadsheets!
     
  6. Design1stcode2nd

    Design1stcode2nd Gawd

    Messages:
    694
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Now be honest you thought the same when the Xbox Elite controller came out for $150 too didn't you? I know I did but I was wrong..

    I don't understand whey people buy Macs unless it's exclusively for Final Cut Pro but people do. People are also going to buy an Area 51 Threadripper top model for $$$$$$.

    Just because you or I feel it may or may not be too expensive doesn't mean it will fail. We should see regardless in the next few months. Some people just want the best of any given product.
     
  7. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    17,538
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Your analogies don't really work. No one knows how many Elite controllers sell, but those controllers also have appeal to more than just console players. Macs offer something PC don't, a controlled spec with a super clean, very well optimized OS on top of absolutely gorgeous design. On top of that they have some of the best productivity software out there.

    The XBX has none of that nor does it have the same hardcore appeal the Elite controller has. There really isn't much of a built in playerbase for the system either. Sony has sold over 60 million PS4s. The last official word from MS was back in 2015 when MS reported something like 10 million units sold. The last estimates put them behind Sony by over half. So we're looking at 25-30 million systems sold, if that. How many of those have 4K sets? How many of those play enough on their XB1 to even consider upgrading? Of those with 4K sets how many just bought a S and are fine with its ability to display 4K media? The PS4 Pro, by all estimates, isn't even selling a huge amount of units and yet people expect something $100 more with far less of a dedicated user base behind it to sell amazingly well?
     
    jnemesh likes this.
  8. relapse808

    relapse808 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,074
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    I agree with this and you dont need a game to notice the difference. Just move your mouse around at 60hz on the desktop, switch to 144hz and do the same. The difference is very clear to me.
     
    SomeoneElse and GoldenTiger like this.
  9. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    17,859
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    ... yeah but technology price keeps coming down. Original PlayStation may of been $462 dollars (today's money), but a normal desktop computer back then was almost $2,000 ($3200 today's money)

    Technology prices are dropping. You can buy an entry level computer that is equivalent to what you got back then, today, for like $4-500 dollars.

    Point is, it is not completely fair to just consider inflation and no other factors. People expect to pay less for technology today than they did then.
     
  10. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

    Messages:
    945
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Sure, I'm just saying PC's get away with being "overpriced" because a huge % of the demographic can find a good excuse to do so whether they are a gamer or not. People just expect PC's to be expensive. However I feel confident asserting most console gamers expect the opposite, they ALL want the cheapest thing possible. People with fancy surround setups and 4k TV's are an extreme minority, so thats why $500 consoles fail where as $1000 PC's thrive.
     
  11. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

    Messages:
    945
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    When my 144hz had to be sent in for warranty I fell back on my 60hz 26". Holy cow I thought something was wrong with my video settings, I just could not remember 60 hz feeling that jittery as I had gamed at 60hz for the last 2 decades. It took about a week before I got my monitor back and only on the last day did it start to feel somewhat normal at 60hz again.
     
  12. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,364
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Yep, just buy something, slap it in and watch it blow up. Or how about that crappy monitor that is still in use? Or having no 6 pin connectors?
     
  13. Semantics

    Semantics 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,765
    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    About twice as much as the Vive and Rift combined has sold
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  14. jnemesh

    jnemesh [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,084
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    talk about lowering the bar! You are comparing apples and oranges here, bub. As such, you dont even rate a response to this bullshit.
     
  15. jnemesh

    jnemesh [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,084
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    I didn't say they wouldnt sell ANY, I said they aren't going to sell enough to make any significant difference in the fate of their console ambitions. And they wont. Just because a few (vocal) fanbois on the net think this is the best shit since the Atari 2600 doesnt mean it will sell to the general public in any meaningful way.
     
  16. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,364
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    No dude, you said it would tank. Just admit it, you could be wrong........ I am waiting......... :D You are the only one throwing around that fanboi tag like it means something to you. If you are so sure, I assume then that you are a stock market analyst rolling in the dough, eh?
     
  17. GlacierNine

    GlacierNine Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    198
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Hang on. Why is this news?

    It's common knowledge that the only company who ever makes money on hardware at launch is Nintendo.

    The PSX, PS2, PS3 and PS4 all lost money at launch. So did every other Xbox, and so did the Dreamcast. Licensing has ALWAYS been the console moneymaking machine.
     
    jnemesh likes this.
  18. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,303
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    I don't know what you've been using.
     
  19. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,364
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    This is what you said: People don't need to buy a complete new system to be able to play like they need to with consoles. Any decent PC bought in the past half a decade has a more powerful CPU than current consoles so all that is required is a new GPU and $500 buys you a whole lot more GPU power than you get with a Xbox One XXX

    It has nothing to do with what I am using. Very few pre built systems, which most of those systems bough in the past half decade are, do not even have a 6 pin PCIe power connector. Many folks will continue using an older monitor as long as it works, just because.
     
  20. Seventyfive

    Seventyfive [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,346
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2004
    Sure, I don't disagree. But at the same time, you are just saying "computer". If we go on something like performance per dollar, you are paying the same to get significantly more, well in excess of inflation. For example, the original Playstation came with a CD player, the new Xbox One X comes with an UHD Blu Ray Player. So price is coming down on the components per your point, but for my point, we are just allocating the same amount of dollars every year in order to buy more.

    A further example would be, a computer cost $2000 back in the day. If you spent the same amount $3200 per your calc, you'd have a ridiculous computer comparatively. You're getting a shitload more technology.
     
    ManofGod likes this.
  21. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,303
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    We are talking about gamers here, there are no hardware issues like those. Monitors have barely improved in the past years and one can always game on the TV which is what a "console like" player would do anyway.
     
  22. Thretosix

    Thretosix n00b

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    The out of box experience you get for $500 is unmatched. I believe Microsoft believes when it releases the performance will speak for itself. It's not a PC, it's a great gaming experience for it's price. Plus it plays UHD Blu-rays.
     
    ManofGod and Nihilus1 like this.
  23. oROEchimaru

    oROEchimaru [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,666
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004

    awesome thanks
     
  24. Nihilus1

    Nihilus1 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    441
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    This has the fastest available AMD gpu with freesync 2.0 support. Freesync monitor prices should come way down by the time this released.

    Lots of people just use laptops for their PC needs now a days. I just shopped for a laptop for my wife. No way is she going to want a huge, heavy gaming laptop. So the best graphics we have in the house are Intel integrated. This is NOT uncommon outside of the [H] realm and the XBOX will come in very useful.
     
  25. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,364
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Well, I am very much looking forward to this and will probably buy it day one. However, it will cost me a few dollars more than $500 because I will also need the Kinect 2 adapter. I enjoy having it even though it is not all that well supported anymore. (At least compared to what it should have been.)
     
  26. Ragenrok

    Ragenrok 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    4,003
    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Just listened to an interview with Phil spencer explaining a lot about the price point and what it meant And it honestly made me respect him. Made a lot of good points, and outright said this isn't for every gamer. This is for the console equivalent of a pc gamer who is willing to spend tons on a titan gpu because they need to have the best of the best, but if that's not for you then the Xbox one s still exists for half the price. It's about an hour long but a very good listen, I put it in during my drive to work today lol.

     
  27. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,303
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Yes, it's not matched with many worthwhile games.
     
  28. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,364
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    zzzzzzzzz.....zzzzzzzz....zzzzzzzz.... *snorts awake* Did you say something? :D Well, I am awake now, might as well go play my One X.
     
  29. HoffY

    HoffY Gawd

    Messages:
    938
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Yeah. its funny how the public just lap that line up. "oh we don't make any money on the console". uh-huh. pull the other one, it plays jingle bells.

    They are making money on the hardware. Stop fooling yourself and swallowing marketing propaganda. Why else do they not want to worry you with 'the numbers' (and even if they did hand out figures, creative accounting is all it would be).
     
    whateverer likes this.
  30. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,303
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Hey, that's me at MS E3 presentation! :)
     
  31. Killahurtz

    Killahurtz Gawd

    Messages:
    635
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    hahahha...the PS3 Gen 1 with card reader and 4 usb ports cost OVER $600.00 when I got it in it's first couple of days , still have it , let me guess your buddy is YOUNG?
     
  32. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    17,538
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Losing money on hardware is not uncommon in the game industry. Its been a thing since the PS1. Even Nintendo has taken that approach before. Tech gets cheaper as time goes on so within a year or two companies are making a profit on each unit sold. It has always been a fact that the money for hardware manufacturers doesn't come from direct console sales, but from royalty fees for games. They're able to take a hit on each unit sold because it is easily made up by the customer buying games for that system. This is the same tactic you see inkjet printer manufacturers take, they make nothing or even lose money on each printer sold but make a ton of money off ink sales. In retail, this strategy is called being a loss leader, losing money on one item but using that to draw customers in and have them buy the things you actually make good money off of.
     
  33. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,445
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Ironically, the Xbox kind of IS a PC though.

    From what I understand, you basically have a gaming optimized minimalist fixed W10, which will never change so game developers don't have to worry about updates, and another updated W10 for apps, and otherwise is regular PC APU components/memory/drive/etc.

    So the console and HTPC merged.
     
  34. jnemesh

    jnemesh [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,084
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    It WILL tank! That said, sales wont be zero. And you can wait all you want, idiot. It's not going to save the platform. Get back to me next January and let me know how your predictions work out for you.
     
  35. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,364
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    As I have said on other forums and other places, I may be an idiot but that does not make me wrong. :D :)
     
  36. jnemesh

    jnemesh [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,084
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    This time you are both.
     
  37. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,364
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    That's nice, now play nice. :D Looking forward to the One X if for no other reason than it will be faster than the One itself. Just have to make sure the Kinect two works with it before I buy one although, I will need the adapter to go with it, like the One S probably. Oh, and do not mess with time travel, the bad guys will come and get you.
     
    jnemesh likes this.
  38. TripleAgent77

    TripleAgent77 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    The Kinect works exactly the same with the USB adapter. That was confirmed by Spencer at an E3 interview.
     
    ManofGod likes this.
  39. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,652
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    And you know what, over time the price will drop. They actually don't expect everyone to buy the X. They are selling it for the people that want more than what the S can do. If you don't want more power then stay with the S. They are going to be making both just like Sony still makes both the PS 4 and Pro.
     
  40. jnemesh

    jnemesh [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,084
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Correct, but while the PS4 ecosystem is thriving, Xbox is struggling to justify it's existence...especially with ALL new titles being availble on PC. There just isnt any reason for the XB1X to exist. Casuals will pick up the cheaper unit, and hardcore gamers will go PC...who is this for? The PS4 Pro on the other hand, still has plenty of QUALITY titles that can not be played on any other platform. Want to play Wipeout Omega in the highest resolution with the best graphics? PS4 Pro. ONLY. THAT gave me a a reason to buy one. Sure they will sell a FEW XB1Xs to the die hard Xbox fans, but as the numbers show, there arent enough of those people to justify the continued existence of the Xbox brand. Just watch...