Microsoft Will Combat Chromebooks with New Low-Cost Surface, Windows 10 Cloud

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Apr 22, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    It is pretty much all but confirmed at this point that Microsoft’s big event in May will be education-oriented, as they are expected to reveal new low-cost devices that will compete directly with Google’s Chromebooks. Powering this effort will be Windows 10 Cloud, which sounds like a dangerous retread of RT, as it functions mostly on UWP apps and the barren Windows Store. I think MS has a better winner with Windows 10 on ARM.

    The point should be obvious: The education market is critical to Microsoft's future based purely on familiarity. The debate between macOS and Windows preference, for instance, almost always comes down to what you were exposed to first. Rarely in today's world do adults try both OSes, evaluate them equally and come to rational decisions. If Google is already at 50 percent adoption in the U.S. education market, that is a generation that's now in the Google and Android ecosystem. Microsoft needs a plan to take that on and, for once, I feel like it may have some significant advantages with Windows 10 Cloud and a new Surface.
     
  2. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Education app development will be key here. The popular consumer apps are not needed on an education device. However, I wonder if this is something else they will let die if it does not become an instant success.
     
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  3. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    If it cant do a full set of updates in a 8 second reboot like a Chromebook, it's a loser.

    Sorry but Windows updates on mobile devices is killing it for me. Waiting for 10 minutes for it to shut down and do the updates, then going to another location, turning on your laptop and having to wait another 8 or so minutes looking at "Updates are 100% complete" (no they f****** aren't) is just painful.

    Oh and then it may never get that far at all...just a black screen with a cursor...

    You don't get that with a Chromebook.
     
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  4. MV75

    MV75 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Their only chance is getting office and all of their other development software out there. Forget the os, they already fucked that one up the arse.
     
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  5. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Another desperate attempt to adapt and catchup.
     
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  6. the_servicer

    the_servicer [H]ard|Gawd

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    That would be less bad if they follow through with five years of support for whatever they do release.
     
  7. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    They are going to have the Win32 version of office in the store. Development tools are a bit trickier because I don't know how you'd sandbox those. However these devices should probably be able to be moved to full versions of Windows easily. And that might be the interesting part here. Simplicity and control when needed, more complexity when wanted from a single base OS.
     
  8. leathco016

    leathco016 Limp Gawd

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    I hate this trend of making everything cheaper and smaller. Too many corners are being cut, like the ability to upgrade RAM and storage. Plus, since this is a Windows 10 system, storage will be taken up moreso by the OS than ChromeOS.
     
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  9. grtitan

    grtitan Telemetry is Spying on ME!

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    My problem with this trend is that the owner keeps loosing control of what they can do with the device (move music to an ios device without hacks, for example) and the tendency to keep making everything disposable appliances.

    And no, price is not a guarantee of not being made disposable, see almost all current apple laptops.
     
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  10. MV75

    MV75 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Uh huh, uh huh. Well, what business or training provider deploying office and .net tools, etc are going through the damn store, especially osx deployments? Porting to every platform is what they should be doing.

    Another thing is getting rid of the bloat. Why is just my windows directory over 23GB? That's retarded. They've already cut a lot from the base OS and it's still bigger than ever. Time to cloud all of the legacy drivers that just will never be used in a typical modern system.
     
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  11. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    I had one of those 32GB ultra cheap HP laptops in a few months ago. The customer couldn't do the latest update because...not enough space on the 32GB SSD.

    MS didn't think that one through...total FAIL.

    Before anyone chips in, it only had about 50MB of personal data and a few apps on it. But the 10GB or so space left wasn't enough to shoe horn the update on. It did have Office 365 and that's why I didn't just rebuild from scratch as so many times customers have no clue "how it got there" or "I don't know where the key is!". Why people cant take responsibility for online purchases and accounts...

    Plus you shouldn't have to rebuild such a 'simple machine' from scratch every time a update comes out. Wasn't that the point?

    In the end I had to strip the user data off, do a full run of disk clean, Ccleaner etc. use some tricks to further compress the Windows folder and then use full disk compression. After a few hours farting around I managed to get around 18GB free (with about 200MB to spare on what the update said it required to install). All stuff ordinary Joe user who paid $200 for a piece of crap would be happy to do /S. Sigh.

    Like I said, nobody thinks this crap through.

    Windows as it is just doesn't cut it anymore in the mobile devices arena. There are now better options out there to get stuff done on the go.
     
  12. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    While competition is a good thing I just simply don't see how Windows Cloud can even compete with ChromeOS. I say this for a few reasons:

    1. Security. Windows is still Windows. Meaning you have to bloat up the under powered system with an AV solution of some sort. There is no way around that with Windows.
    2. Management. This one is still up the air as we don't know much but if it requires Active Directory it's a total fail right out of the box. One of the beautiful things about ChromeOS is the ease of management that doesn't require that sort of infrastructure.
    3. Updates. Windows updates suck. Period. The update system for Windows is the biggest piece of shit on the planet. The way ChromeOS updates is again a thing of beauty that is nearly transparent to the user.
    4. App store. Not only is the Chrome Web Store very mature but now you have the Play Store as well. Microsoft has no way to compete with that.

    I already have teacher friends where their school district has moved to ChromeOS and Google. Not one single complaint from them. They do nothing but rave about how easy the transition was and how much easier their jobs are now.
     
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  13. Michaelius

    Michaelius [H]ardness Supreme

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    If they limit it to Windows store they are killing only advantage they have over competition.
     
  14. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Amen brother! It just looks so clunky now and since QA testing has left the building at MS, pretty dangerous too.
     
  15. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm betting they'll be locked down like the WinRT Surface, but if not, maybe it could be a decent linux device. :)
     
  16. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's time for Chrome Pro OS. Even if it's just another Ubuntu derivitave it would be fine.

    I bought a cheap ($400) i3 laptop a couple months ago. First thing I did was rip out the 1TB HDD and put in a 250GB SSD with Linux Mint. If Google came in and offered something preconfigured like that it would beat any cheap Windows laptop hands-down. Between that and cheaper Chromebook devices I could see them flipping the laptop market out of Microsoft's hands.
     
  17. leathco016

    leathco016 Limp Gawd

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    Honestly, my method for a cheap laptop was buying a refurbished Thinkpad, the X230. I paid 120 bucks for it, with a third generation i5 processor, a 320 gig hard drive, and 4 gigs of ram. I added another 4 gig for 30 dollars, and swapped out the hard drive for a 1 TB drive for another 40, and now have a machine significantly more powerful and useable than any 200 dollar budget laptop out there, for close to the same price. And the thing came with a WIndows 10 installed as well, crazy.
     
  18. night_2004

    night_2004 2[H]4U

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    Microsoft can go fuck themselves. The last thing we need is spyware built in to devices used in education.
     
  19. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Like Google has?
     
  20. Dead Parrot

    Dead Parrot 2[H]4U

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    This whole "Everyone has a fast always on Internet Connection" is crap. Might be true in the coastal states but there are wide areas of the US where cell service is intermittent at best, despite what all the Look at our Wonderful Coverage Maps show. A lot of schools around here are struggling to hire, pay and keep teachers. Funding a high speed Internet and building wide WiFi capable of supporting a few hundred simultaneous connections in each school is not even on the ten year plan.
     
  21. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    In that case, a standard Windows Client - Server network will be more than sufficient. Chances are, the computers would be on Windows 7 or below since they cannot afford high speed connection sufficient enough to do a cloud based computing environment. Meaning, they could not afford to buy new computers with Windows 10 on it anyways.
     
  22. Term-X

    Term-X 2[H]4U

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    15-17" Surface Pro / Surface Book please.

    Thanks.
     
  23. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Must suck living in a developing nation.
     
  24. gunbust3r

    gunbust3r Gawd

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    So another iteration of the insufferably slow Atom Surface, with the usual slow storage and worst in class Avastar WiFi/Bluetooth boat anchor. Bonus it will be $500+ while Asus or HP makes the same crap but at least prices it better.
     
  25. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    Much like windows mobile, WindowsRT and the windows store, its hard to even see this as a real effort. Did they create a new lightweight OS to actually compete with Chromebooks? No. They took Windows 10 Home, clicked End-Task on Explorer.exe, and called it a day.

    It's the same bloated x86 Windows that they've forgotten how to delta update and is a disk space pig, except you're locked out of the best part of Windows (the desktop and Win32 programs), and locked into the worst part (windows store, low quality apps, Edge browser). It completely misses the mark on everything that makes Chromebooks attractive to organizations (cheap, lightweight, simple to update and manage).

    I can't accept that this is the best that a multi-billion-dollar software company can do or is capable of. It seems to be more of the same continuing pattern of half-measure, not-even-really-trying, lazy rebranding effort at best.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  26. night_2004

    night_2004 2[H]4U

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    Good point, any objective data on what they do? Curious to know if its something that can actually be turned off or otherwise actually controllable.
     
  27. twonunpackmule

    twonunpackmule [H]ard|Gawd

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    I can just imagine the amount of times I'll see that damn hourglass.
     
  28. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Spyware is not built into Android as an OS, we've already been over this. The spyware is included in Gapps, the OS itself is open source and anyone can inspect the code for the inclusion of spyware. The OS runs fine without Gapps installed, software can be installed via other means when it comes to Android, you aren't limited to the Play Store.

    If anything this would be an issue relating to Apple and iOS as opposed to Android from OS level.

    Due to the fact that ChromeOS is based on Linux I assume it must also be open source and it's code is able to be scrutinised for spyware inclusion.
     
  29. Unexploded

    Unexploded Limp Gawd

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    This. Glued-in batteries and no memory expansion options still make me wanted to punch people. Also not a fan of potentially being limited to approved operating systems or only being able to watch 4K netflix with a specific CPU.
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...ing-pc-kaby-lake-cpu-windows-10-edge-browser/
     
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