Microsoft Updated its terms of service

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by chaos4u, Jul 12, 2019 at 1:49 PM.

  1. chaos4u

    chaos4u Limp Gawd

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    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/upcoming.aspx
    interesting tid bit,

    b. To the extent necessary to provide the Services to you and others, to protect you and the Services, and to improve Microsoft products and services, you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content


    debate it how ever you like as a necessity ... but that is a very broad licenses and give MS the right to use any thing of yours that they want.

    also the code of conduct i interesting to ..

    better keep in check that potty mouth while gaming as you may find your MS service terminated lol...
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 3:15 PM
  2. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Service for what? Context?
     
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  3. chaos4u

    chaos4u Limp Gawd

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    pretty much everything Microsoft , barring the operating system so far..

    all at the bottom of the link ..

    office 365, one drive, live mail, photo ghallery, groove etc ....
     
  4. DeChache

    DeChache The ONE - Your Ignorance Annoys Me

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    List of services this applies to

    TLDR they own the data you put into their cloud services. WIth some exceptions being Edge and some other downloadable windows tools. But Windows itself seems to be excluded.

    Seems to bee a pretty stand clause with cloud services.

    Remember everybody if you don't pay for it you are the product.

    Code:
    
    Account.microsoft.com
    Advertising.microsoft.com
    Ask Cortana
    Bing App for Android
    Bing Apps
    Bing Bots
    Bing Business Bot
    Bing Desktop
    Bing Dictionary
    Bing for Business
    Bing Image and News (iOS)
    Bing in the Classroom
    Bing Maps
    Bing Music Bot
    Bing Search APIs/SDKs
    Bing Search app
    Bing Sportscaster
    Bing Toolbar
    Bing Translator
    Bing Webmaster
    Bing Wikipedia Browser
    Bing.com
    Bing
    Bingplaces.com
    Citizen Next
    Cortana skills by Microsoft
    Cortana
    Default Homepage and New Tab Page on Microsoft Edge
    Dev Center App
    Device Health App
    Dictate
    Docs.com
    Education.minecraft.net
    Experts for PowerPoint (Preview)
    Face Swap
    Feedback Intake Tool for Azure Maps (aka “Azure Maps Feedback”)
    Forms.microsoft.com
    Forzamotorsport.net
    Groove Music Pass
    Groove
    GroupMe
    HealthVault
    LineBack
    Manufacturers.bing.com
    Maps App
    Microsoft Academic
    Microsoft account
    Microsoft Add-Ins for Skype
    Microsoft Bots
    Microsoft Educator Community
    Microsoft Family
    Microsoft Health
    Microsoft Movies & TV
    Microsoft Pay
    Microsoft Research Interactive Science
    Microsoft Research Open Data
    Microsoft Soundscape
    Microsoft Support and Recovery Assistant for Office 365
    Microsoft Translator
    Microsoft Wallpaper
    Microsoft XiaoIce
    Mixer
    MSN Dial Up
    MSN Explorer
    MSN Food & Drink
    MSN Health & Fitness
    MSN Money
    MSN News
    MSN Premium
    MSN Sports
    MSN Travel
    MSN Weather
    MSN.com
    Next Lock Screen
    Office 365 Consumer
    Office 365 Home
    Office 365 Personal
    Office 365 Pro Plus optional connected experiences
    Office 365 University
    Office Online
    Office Store
    Office Sway
    Office.com
    OneDrive.com
    OneDrive
    OneNote.com
    Outlook.com
    Paint 3D
    Picturesque Lock Screen
    Presentation Translator
    Remix 3D
    Rinna
    rise4fun
    Ruuh
    Seeing AI
    Send
    Skype in the Classroom
    Skype Interviews
    Skype Manager
    Skype Qik
    Skype.com
    Skype
    Smart Search
    Snip Insights
    Spreadsheet Keyboard
    Sprinkles
    Store
    Sway.com
    to-do.microsoft.com
    Translator for Microsoft Edge
    Translator Live
    UrWeather
    Video Breakdown
    Visio Online
    Web Translator
    Who’s In
    Windows games, apps and websites published by Microsoft
    Windows Movie Maker
    Windows Photo Gallery
    Windows Store
    Windows Live Mail
    Windows Live Writer
    Word Flow
    Xbox Game Pass
    Xbox Game Studios games, apps and websites
    Xbox Live Gold
    Xbox Live
    Xbox Music
    Xbox Store
    Zo
    [/LIST]
    [code]
    
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/upcoming.aspx#serviceslist
     
  5. cyklondx

    cyklondx [H]Lite

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    This is in prep for takeover over github content.
     
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  6. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    basically anything you create/save/send, receive, or store on a device using their win10/cloud platform, they can use for whatever purpose they want. period.
     
  7. DeChache

    DeChache The ONE - Your Ignorance Annoys Me

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    Win10 is not included. See the above list.
     
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  8. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Only thing I use Microsoft's cloud for is my save games on Xbox and the Microsoft Store. So no big deal to me.
     
  9. chaos4u

    chaos4u Limp Gawd

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    while true, the way one drive is integrated into windows 10 lends its self quite easily to having ones work becoming Microsoft's intellectual property.
     
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  10. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    They need this for a CYA policy regarding data backups internally, otherwise you could sue them for backing up your cloud saved data to an off site location with out your knowledge and various other things. If they claim ownership of the data then it is theirs to backup transfer or yes even sift through (not that there is any gain in doing that) as they need to. Also covers them in the event of a data loss, OneDrive dyes because of a fire and your stuff is lost, too bad can't sue because the stored data wasn't yours. Just about every cloud service I have ever seen has this in there, so I am surprised that MS didn't have it in there before.
     
  11. DeChache

    DeChache The ONE - Your Ignorance Annoys Me

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    Only if you sign in with a Microsoft account. Local accounts just prompt you to set up the connection.
     
  12. xx0xx

    xx0xx Gawd

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    Yeah, this is a very common type of over-broad-on-purpose clause. This exact wording has been seen in plenty of other policies and some companies even come out and say that it's mostly a CYA thing. People have gotten worked up about this type of policy wording before, but it really sounds worse than it is. It's less Microsoft's fault and more just a downside of how they have to legally stay clean. I think worrying about it too much or assuming malicious intent here is overreaction.

    Not that the concerns aren't legitimate. It is an issue that companies, to protect themselves legally, have to go via routes like this. Because I could see it opening up the potential for companies to abuse the clause and still leave a victim with no recourse
     
  13. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    well what about MS office??!! did you read that list of apps? let me just post a few

    Office 365 Consumer
    Office 365 Home
    Office 365 Personal
    Office 365 Pro Plus optional connected experiences
    Office 365 University
    Office Online
    Office Store
    Office Sway
    Office.com
    OneDrive.com
    OneDrive
    OneNote.com
    Outlook.com
    Paint 3D
    OneDrive
    Default Homepage and New Tab Page on Microsoft Edge
    Ask Cortana
    MSN Dial Up
    MSN Explorer
    Microsoft Family
    Microsoft Health
    Microsoft Movies & TV
    Bing Maps
    Bing
    Account.microsoft.com
    Advertising.microsoft.com
    Windows Movie Maker
    Windows Photo Gallery
    Windows Store
    Windows Live Mail
    Windows Live Writer
    Skype in the Classroom
    Skype Interviews
    Skype Manager
    Skype Qik
    Skype.com
    Skype

    if you can't see where this is heading you must be blind.

    so if you really don't care who access' all your personal info why don't you go ahead and setup a GoToMeeting login and post it here on the site. i wouldn't mind having a look around on your system.
     
  14. theplaidfad

    theplaidfad Lurker

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    Sure, but first, why do you want to look? Microsoft is offering "services" for this. What's your offer?
     
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  15. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    Because it's going to become a shell of what it currently is and form the core of Microsoft's cloud based offering 'Windows As A Service' style...

    Hopefully without the NT kernel.
     
  16. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    And the cloud based part of the Windows 10 Home installer has changed to not allow the creation of local accounts when installing Windows 10 Home, it's been that way on the last few installs for me - Total PITA when installing Windows on a new PC for a client.

    And yes I tried every option to get around it and no, there's no way around it.
     
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  17. 1_rick

    1_rick Limp Gawd

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    I'm almost positive there's still a way around it. I think you have to click past the "create a Microsoft account" and then on the next screen you can say "no, I want a local account".

    In any event, there's an alternative, although it's not as good--I just found it out last week because I swapped out my CPU and motherbaord, and Windows unactivated on me. At some point they got rid of the ability to dial an 800 number and type in a really long number and get a really long number back to reactivate. Instead, you need to sign in with an MS account to tie your key to that account, so you can reactivate Windows later if need be. Afterwards, you can just go to Settings, create a local account, sign out of the MS account, and then sign back in with the local account. Again, not ideal, but it works.

    I did a fresh install a few months ago and I would swear you could still create a local account but I'd have to actually do a fresh one now to check. You definitely can still do it with Pro because I did that recently when I upgraded the SSD on my work Dell and the recovery USB turned out to be not an install USB.
     
  18. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    Or in this case, privacy for "free" shit.
     
  19. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    Screen 1:

    MpbSFWd.jpg

    Screen 2 (After clicking 'Create Account'):

    E9cac5w.jpg

    And no, you can't just click next and skip this section. I've installed Windows 10 Home numerous times since I first noticed this change and every time there has been absolutely no way to make a local account.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019 at 5:18 AM
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  20. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Clippy.jpg

    We're overdue for a revolt against this privatized mass-surveillance. It's creepy enough that some mouth breathing treehouse dweller at Microsoft has this kind of power, but I'm honestly more concerned about how the data gets used and abused down the line.

    They all have these TOS agreements because they all know that securing their data is impossible.

    With that in mind I think its a deceptive/unfair business practice to retain user data and promise data security while simultaneously preventing users from suing via TOS agreements. Particularly for a company in a monopoly position where users really don't have the ability to opt out of these 'services.'
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019 at 4:00 AM
  21. faugusztin

    faugusztin 2[H]4U

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    The reason for this clause is literally so MS can make copies of the files in question for the actual service to work as intended. The OP ignored the important part of the same section :

    We don’t claim ownership of Your Content. Your Content remains Your Content and you are responsible for it.

    The part OP cited is about as simple things as being able to have your file on multiple servers. You upload your file to OneDrive, file is put on US server. For performance reasons (for example you are an international traveler), MS might decide that it is good to make a copy of that file on an European OneDrive servers, because you are there for few weeks. Now they could either serve you the file from US (with a 150ms ping, plus going through many connections), or have the file available at the regional data center. But to be able to legally "clone" the file between datacenters, you need to grant them this right, or you could sue them for making illegal copies of your files.
    Same with automated backups - if you didn't give them this right, an automated tape backup of your OneDrive account would count as 'illegal copy' from viewpoint of law.

    We could go on, but in the end, you cannot take a subsection of an agreement out of context and twist it around.

    And if you go through the list of apps:
    • Office is documents stored in cloud (OneDrive)
    • OneDrive is obvious
    • OneNote.com is again for your notes on OneDrive
    • Outlook.com is obvious, your emails stored on their email servers
    • Paint3D - 3D Library is cloud based
    • we could go on, but each of the apps or services mentioned in the list has an online component tied to OneDrive or Azure somehow, and that is the part covered by that service agreement.
     
  22. aokman

    aokman Gawd

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    I got a reply for them, go fuk yourself.
     
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  23. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I am not sure what this cloud install stuff he is referring to is. However, using a local account on a Windows 10 Home machine with a clean install remains completely unchanged, it is exactly like installing Windows 10 Pro.
     
  24. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    Just because these clauses are in their terms of service doesn't mean they are legal. No contract, Eula, or terms of service can take away your legal rights, nor can they legally force you to give up or share ownership of your legally owned material. In all reality, if what Lakados describes is accurate , storage facilities, apartment complexes, etc would have the same wording in their contracts to protect themselves from damages if anything where to happen. If there was a fire, and they lost your data, you can bet your ass they would be sued and they would lose for not having proper back up measures in place.

    This also violates privacy laws. The only entity that can sift thru your stored data is law enforcement, with a court order.
     
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  25. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Silicon Valley is moving to lock it all down including necessary aspects of Linux. They aren't going to stop unless made to stop.
     
  26. LazN

    LazN Limp Gawd

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    What version of Win10 is that? I still get "Sign in without a Microsoft account" (as detailed here: https://4sysops.com/archives/install-windows-10-with-a-local-account/ ) when installing Pro or Enterprise. I have not touched a MS "home" product in years.
     
  27. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That looks like a very old version of Windows 10. At that point, if he unplugs the computer from the network, it will skip that screen automatically and as for a local account to be created.
     
  28. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is a justification of it.

    Just because it can be rationalized for a benign reason doesn't mean the concerns are invalid.
     
  29. faugusztin

    faugusztin 2[H]4U

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    You need to remember these documents are written by lawyers, not engineers. Lawyers can't be bothered to enumerate exact use cases, because that would require the inclusion of engineers.
     
  30. cyklondx

    cyklondx [H]Lite

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    github doesn't respond on the support request (from a pro/paid user) to clarify if they are affected by this change. I fear they are affected.

    "Windows games, apps and websites published by Microsoft"
     
  31. chaos4u

    chaos4u Limp Gawd

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    no need for a royalty-free intellectual property license to do what microsoft needs with your data , it could be written as a simple replication of data clause to guarantee functioning of services.

    they dont need rights to your content with a stated clause dictating they can use your content in their promotional materials.
     
  32. GoodBoy

    GoodBoy [H]ard|Gawd

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  33. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    They can probably provide better security than most are capable of themselves. But under their previous rules if your password say got brute forces because you chose P@ssword1! and your stuff got stolen and deleted you could sue in some countries for them failing to properly identify the user logging in. With the new terms that becomes near impossible. But let’s face it now it’s better to assume your data is already compromised and you are trying to mitigate the damage than it is to assume your system is impregnable.
     
  34. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    They don't sift through data but they can analyze it, there is a difference, file size, data type, average time between edits, how long a file sits dormant after initial creation, number of collaborative users working on a document and of what type, are files mostly worked on what platform and in what web browser. This is all valuable meta data that is completely independent of the documents contents that assists them in better storing and sorting the content and further improving their services. And yes Just about every storage facility, apartment complex, and hosted data facility have clauses that clear them legally in the events of disaster, there is nothing to sue for because you have to prove that your data has a monetary non replaceable value and in the event it did you should have had insurance on it to begin with and that is exactly what they will argue and they will win every time. You are responsible for your data and your data's backups, nobody should ever be relying on a single source Onedrive, iCloud, Dropbox all of them recommend that you have your data securely backed up on another medium as none of them guarantee anything other than that for as long as they are operating they are more than willing to accept your money.

    Edit*
    This is why renters insurance and direct damage property insurance are a thing, and in the case of businesses often sold along side Business income coverage and extra expense coverage, in the event of something catastrophic where a datacenter burns down or is swallowed in an earthquake all they need to do is prove that the loss wasn't due to willful negligence on their part, and they are covered and their users are hooped.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019 at 6:17 PM
  35. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    That is the installer screen, the OOBE 'is cloud based', it is downloaded from Microsoft's servers every time you install Windows even if you do not change install media.

    So, once again for those that cant read, you cannot create a local account under Windows 10 Home anymore upon installation if you get the OOBE I've experienced about the last twenty times I installed Windows 10 Home.

    That's 1809 and I want to update while installing so these machines will be connected to the internet while installing as there's always updates available, eventually the OOBE in the install media will be changed to reflect this limitation anyway.

    You'll always twist criticism of Windows like Microsoft are your mates, are you aware of that? I may seem negative in relation to Windows, but there's a difference between negative and realistic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019 at 6:24 PM
  36. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    Don't have the device connected to the internet when you create the account and it will not prompt your for any online credentials and let you make a local one, just finished reimaging 15 old desktops with home edition with the latest version created this morning using the windows media creation tool as I am decommissioning them and donating them to the local library and computer access center.

    It will force you to choose 3 security questions though..... most annoying so I just did up some BS answers and sent those over to their tech teams for references.
     
  37. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed [H]ard|Gawd

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    As stated, this will eventually be added to the OOBE that's part of the 'offline' installer by default. I wouldn't be surprised if it was already in the latest 19xx release. If not I can assure you it will eventually be present whether online or offline.
     
  38. AltTabbins

    AltTabbins [H]ard as it Gets

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    This right here. One of the biggest annoyances. That and how hard they push you to use a PIN instead of a password. Yeah, I’ll use a 4 digit numeric code that can be cracked faster than I can even comprehend due to the limits of the human brain rather than a mediocre password that will take a couple months if it’s worth it to even try.
     
  39. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    Pin only works on the physical machine is hashed salted and tied to a hardware snapshot, simple password can be brute forced remotely in seconds.
     
  40. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You cannot use a pin without a password. Also, you can use a pin that is longer than 4 digits, if you want.