Microsoft to Remove Ability to Install Win 11 Pro Without Being Online and Signing in to Microsoft Account

grim4593 said:
I think this is overblown. People don't blink when using their Google account when setting up their Android phone or Apple account to setup their iPhone. As much as the Microsoft Store sucks, having things like games, apps, and (perpetual) MS Office licenses link automatically is nice.
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It’s not actually a problem, they only removed the part of the OOBE wizzard for creating the local account or on Personal accounts. Work & Education or non OOBE setups still have it.

The only people it effects are those who buy a Pro account because they don’t want the Home account but don’t know the ins and outs of the pro setups.
 
Lakados said:
Learning curve isn’t so bad if your not reinventing the wheel, Batocera
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WTF?? I DON'T WANT THIS IN MY LIVING ROOM !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batocera
eetle_%28Batocera_rufomaculata%29_%288540061908%29.jpg
 
DukenukemX said:
Nobody's talking about local accounts. You can't install Windows 11 without an Internet connection. You can't install Windows 11 with a local account alone. You need to log in online or you ain't installing Windows 11.
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I always find it funny when people who have no idea what they are talking about make these kinds of declarative statements. I just did fresh installs of the latest Release build (220xx branch) and the latest Dev build (225xx branch) today and in both cases I was able to install WITHOUT an internet connection, and had no issues creating and using a local account. I don't have a single computer that is using a Microsoft account, all local accounts. The Domain Join option works exactly the same, allowing you to create a local account, whether you have an internet connection or not.

Can you please substantiate your post a bit, maybe elaborate a bit on exactly what kind of road-block you are running into and where? I mean, that assumes you are actually testing this on some level and not just "I read a headline and I'm gullible".
 
DukenukemX said:
Nobody's talking about local accounts. You can't install Windows 11 without an Internet connection. You can't install Windows 11 with a local account alone. You need to log in online or you ain't installing Windows 11.
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The original post and article are literally talking about local accounts. You can install windows 11 with out an internet connection. You can install windows 11 with only a local account. you don’t need to be online at all to install windows 11.

I mean you need the internet to download it but that’s true of just about everything.
 
Right now in W10, a local account at install is pretty non-intuitive (if possible its hard to tell). It's easier to use a MS account, create a local admin and delete the MS account. Although at that point, they can forever associate that computer with that account. I do have an MS account just for PC hardware like warranty registration, etc. So i use that and that's all its used for. But of course if they haven't already, there's probably enough info associated with that account to associate it with other e-mails I use more often.
 
"We Have A Product For People Who Can't Access The Internet, It's Called Windows 10"

- Don Mattrick, probably
 
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grim4593 said:
I think this is overblown. People don't blink when using their Google account when setting up their Android phone or Apple account to setup their iPhone.
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I'm sure that's why people use Aurora Store and F-Droid on Android to avoid Google's Play store. I don't even bother installing Gapps on my freshing flashed Android device because they murder the performance and battery life of the device. As Apple phone users, they get to enjoy not having YouTube Vanced. Not only Apple users get to see ads but they also don't get to skip sponsors and can't see the downvotes.
As much as the Microsoft Store sucks, having things like games, apps, and (perpetual) MS Office licenses link automatically is nice.
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That's the same reasoning Apple users give to why they stick with Apple. It's nice if you like supporting Microsoft who is buying every business they feel like buying and then destroys them. Remember when Skype was good and not owned by Microsoft? When Microsoft left Skype to bit rot, they wanted to buy Discord which is nearly the same kind of application.
 
Lakados said:
The original post and article are literally talking about local accounts. You can install windows 11 with out an internet connection. You can install windows 11 with only a local account. you don’t need to be online at all to install windows 11.

I mean you need the internet to download it but that’s true of just about everything.
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I'm quoting the article. It's the first paragraph. I haven't touched Windows 11 and I don't plan to just like Windows 8, but it seems you do need to make an online account.

"To make matters more frustrating, setting up a Windows 11 gaming PC for personal use will require you to use a Microsoft Account, with no option to use a local account during the setup process. While the company hasn’t shared why it’s had a change of heart regarding offline installations, it has reinforced that this change is here to stay. In the change log, it says users “can expect a Microsoft Account to be required in subsequent WIP flights."
 
DukenukemX said:
That's the same reasoning Apple users give to why they stick with Apple. It's nice if you like supporting Microsoft who is buying every business they feel like buying and then destroys them. Remember when Skype was good and not owned by Microsoft? When Microsoft left Skype to bit rot, they wanted to buy Discord which is nearly the same kind of application.
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The issue of corporate "support" is a completely separate issue. I get where your heart is at but you've got to be realistic: if you were to withhold your dollars from every company who deserves it you wouldn't be able to buy much of anything (Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer, Nestle, Exxon Mobile, etc.)
I see the Microsoft Store as no different than Google Play where I have bought apps and have been able to move them between installs/phones seamlessly. I have already bought Sea of Thieves and I have already bought Office. Not dealing with things like software keys and activation services is a great step forward. Tying it to an operating system install is a bit encumbering but it's not like there isn't a precedent elsewhere.
 
DukenukemX said:
I'm quoting the article. It's the first paragraph. I haven't touched Windows 11 and I don't plan to just like Windows 8, but it seems you do need to make an online account.

"To make matters more frustrating, setting up a Windows 11 gaming PC for personal use will require you to use a Microsoft Account, with no option to use a local account during the setup process. While the company hasn’t shared why it’s had a change of heart regarding offline installations, it has reinforced that this change is here to stay. In the change log, it says users “can expect a Microsoft Account to be required in subsequent WIP flights."
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Those shady fucks, they updated the article to remove all the parts that were proving their headline wrong...


The changes that Microsoft made to the Windows 11 Pro installer were specifically to the OOBE and Personal install options, those both require a Microsoft account and that is to comply with pending EU laws about personal data collection, they are looking to require the choices about personal data collection to be saved to the account not the device so that way your personal privacy choices are tracked across all devices. During the Windows 11 Pro installer, you can still choose "Work or School setup" which then takes you a screen to create a local account and it does not require an internet connection to proceed with.

If Microsoft broke this process it would completely destroy the ability to mass deploy for domain environments, they would not alienate their Enterprise clients like that we would lash out and they would feel that.
 
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DukenukemX said:
I'm quoting the article. It's the first paragraph. I haven't touched Windows 11 and I don't plan to just like Windows 8, but it seems you do need to make an online account.

"To make matters more frustrating, setting up a Windows 11 gaming PC for personal use will require you to use a Microsoft Account, with no option to use a local account during the setup process. While the company hasn’t shared why it’s had a change of heart regarding offline installations, it has reinforced that this change is here to stay. In the change log, it says users “can expect a Microsoft Account to be required in subsequent WIP flights."
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This has been elaborated on many times in this thread. The key phrase is "for personal use". What the article fails to mention is that setting up "for personal use" isn't the only option you have. You can "set up for work or school", and use the Domain Join option to create your local account. The result is 100% exactly the same as if you had previously used the "Set up for personal use" option to create your local account, and doesn't actually have a anything to do with a domain. Unnecessary word games? Sure. But the bottom line is, the option remains, and it only requires a couple clicks...
 
NickM said:
Same. We have it on several VM's for testing purposes/
Must be some dark magic.
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I've just started deploying it to those in my T1 users' group who aren't also in the accounting group, with the exception of our new ST who is using a new M1-based mac so I needed to deploy Win 11 and Parallels there to keep him working.

Windows 11 makes changes to how printers are handled and it causes a crapton of errors to some of the older accounting modules (older is a relative term the software was written in the '90s) though we found a workaround he's happy with CutePDF still works and he is very anti paper so printing the reports to PDF and archiving the reports in SharePoint more than works for him. But if there's that there's probably more so until I find all the weird crap that Win11 is doing in the background that breaks NT4 compatibility (yeah the accounting software was written in the '90s) Accounting is on Win 10 until the software is replaced (that's been an ongoing project for the past 5 years, so any day now :rolleyes:) or we find all the weird things and the necessary workarounds for them.
 
GotNoRice said:
This has been elaborated on many times in this thread. The key phrase is "for personal use". What the article fails to mention is that setting up "for personal use" isn't the only option you have. You can "set up for work or school", and use the Domain Join option to create your local account. The result is 100% exactly the same as if you had previously used the "Set up for personal use" option to create your local account, and doesn't actually have a anything to do with a domain. Unnecessary word games? Sure. But the bottom line is, the option remains, and it only requires a couple clicks...
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I have a few problems with this. One is that not many people would realize you don't actual have to join a domain to join a domain. Second is that this might be an oversight by Microsoft just like they didn't think about Pro users needing to make an account. Third this won't work with Home Edition so only Pro users and above can use this trick.

There are methods to get around signing into a Microsoft account for even Home users but it's just as Jerry rigged as joining a Domain. It's obvious that Microsoft is actively working against the idea of an offline use of Windows and they will work against it.

 
DukenukemX said:
I have a few problems with this. One is that not many people would realize you don't actual have to join a domain to join a domain. Second is that this might be an oversight by Microsoft just like they didn't think about Pro users needing to make an account. Third this won't work with Home Edition so only Pro users and above can use this trick.

There are methods to get around signing into a Microsoft account for even Home users but it's just as Jerry rigged as joining a Domain. It's obvious that Microsoft is actively working against the idea of an offline use of Windows and they will work against it.

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But you aren't joining a domain. Are you even reading what people are explaining to you?
 
GoldenTiger said:
But you aren't joining a domain. Are you even reading what people are explaining to you?
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I said that nobody expects that to work since you'd expect it to join a domain. Even then I think Microsoft is just overlooking a loophole they left. Either that or Microsoft is sticking to a grey area where they don't entirely piss off their IT users.
 
DukenukemX said:
Even then I think Microsoft is just overlooking a loophole they left. Either that or Microsoft is sticking to a grey area where they don't entirely piss off their IT users.
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It's not a loophole. There are businesses where you literally aren't allowed to use something like a Microsoft account even if you wanted to, purely for security reasons. Also consider from the system builder perspective. In 99% of cases a system builder would not have the information to log in to their end customer's Microsoft account while building and configuring the system. There will always have to be a way to get Windows onto the computer, so that computer can be completed and then given to the end customer, after which they can potentially log in using their Microsoft Account if they wanted.
 
GotNoRice said:
It's not a loophole. There are businesses where you literally aren't allowed to use something like a Microsoft account even if you wanted to, purely for security reasons. Also consider from the system builder perspective. In 99% of cases a system builder would not have the information to log in to their end customer's Microsoft account while building and configuring the system. There will always have to be a way to get Windows onto the computer, so that computer can be completed and then given to the end customer, after which they can potentially log in using their Microsoft Account if they wanted.
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I doubt Microsoft left the Domain trick for system builders. They could just put a "skip for now" button like in the past. I get that no business wants you to use a Microsoft account but in Microsoft's defense what's more secure than being with Microsoft? It's the same logic that Apple has with their devices.
 
N4CR said:
Still not migrated to the crap heap that is win 10 and they think this will get me wanting cancer with aids?
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Well considering that nothing actually changed in the latest build in terms of what you can and can't do with local accounts... Sounds like you were determined to pat yourself on the back about an opinion that you already formed long before you ever saw this thread.

I guess if you run a 10+ year old computer, you can get away with running a 10+ year old OS. For most of us, especially those who actually work in IT, the "stick your head in the sand" approach isn't an option.
 
Lakados said:
Still waiting for somebody to tell me what this telemetry that they collect that can't be turned off is because if you are running Pro or higher it all is certainly capable of being turned off with the exception of crash reports but those don't contain anything that wasn't present in all previous versions of windows. I don't believe I have ever used a windows home edition so I can't comment on telemetry on those editions.

Edit:
Wait no I just checked, checking Disable diagnostic data to True in Group Policy editor does disable the crash reports as well as a few other things.

Another Edit:
Double-checked that both Disable Diagnostic Data and Customer Experience Improvement flags are available in Home edition as well, and disabling those two blocks out everything that isn't covered in the GUI process that is run when you create the user profile.
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Windows Update?

grim4593 said:
I think this is overblown. People don't blink when using their Google account when setting up their Android phone or Apple account to setup their iPhone. As much as the Microsoft Store sucks, having things like games, apps, and (perpetual) MS Office licenses link automatically is nice.
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True for most people. They don't care about their privacy. Unless you are installing an alternate OS on your phone and not using crApple or Google's apps you can't prevent this. Microsoft practically owns the workplace, too.
 
Let us use a little commonsense and know that Microsoft, just like Google and Apple, does not care about your privacy or personal data. Whether you choose to use Windows 11 or not, that is a simple fact of life that is what it is.
 
ManofGod said:
Let us use a little commonsense and know that Microsoft, just like Google and Apple, does not care about your privacy or personal data. Whether you choose to use Windows 11 or not, that is a simple fact of life that is what it is.
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Not quite true, if you are paying them Microsoft and Apple both go to great lengths to secure your confidential data, Microsofts secure data services are very well received in the enterprise market.
 
Lakados said:
Not quite true, if you are paying them Microsoft and Apple both go to great lengths to secure your confidential data, Microsofts secure data services are very well received in the enterprise market.
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So, pay a lot of money and your data is probably safe but do not pay and........ yep, commonsense.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Well, yeah, they aren't charities.
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Well, the case in point has been proven then, you data is forfeit if you are using Windows 10 or 11 at home, since you are not an Enterprise and do not have an Enterprise account.
 
GotNoRice said:
Well considering that nothing actually changed in the latest build in terms of what you can and can't do with local accounts... Sounds like you were determined to pat yourself on the back about an opinion that you already formed long before you ever saw this thread.

I guess if you run a 10+ year old computer, you can get away with running a 10+ year old OS. For most of us, especially those who actually work in IT, the "stick your head in the sand" approach isn't an option.
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Still not nearly as bad as the "stick your head up Microsoft's butthole so far that you can see the cloud(s)" approach.
 
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