Microsoft to Remove Ability to Install Win 11 Pro Without Being Online and Signing in to Microsoft Account

Zarathustra[H]

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That's great info.

If I ever need to install Windows 11, I'll be sure to keep this in mind (and will be feverishly searching the forums trying to remember where I saw that link :p )

The WIndows install media are weird,m at least since Windows 10.

With everything linux, I can just take the bootable ISO image, and write it to a USB stick and it just works, and boots and I can install.

With Windows 10 and Windows 11, you need specialty tools like Rufus that does some sort of processing to the image before placing it on a USB stick, OR you need to use the Windows Media Creation Tool.

I've never quite understood why, and why they made it so convoluted.
 

Axman

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I've never quite understood why, and why they made it so convoluted.

It's a necessary step before Windows as a Service.

Gotta mess up the installation method, first, then completely get rid of legacy media, then have a USB boot, connect to the internet, then download and install Windows from there.
 

Randall Stephens

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It's a necessary step before Windows as a Service.

Gotta mess up the installation method, first, then completely get rid of legacy media, then have a USB boot, connect to the internet, then download and install Windows from there.
Never happen. We still get game boxes with cds and dvds. Why would windows be any different?
 

UnknownSouljer

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Never happen. We still get game boxes with cds and dvds. Why would windows be any different?
Never is a really long time. You think in 50 years there will be CD's and DVD's? A 100? A thousand years from now we'll still be stuck on physical media? It's inevitable.

On the macOS side there hasn't been physical media since 2012. On Linux, I don't know if a single distro comes on physical media unless you burn it yourself. There is no software whether professional or game that I don't obtain through digital distribution. Even stuff like Resolve is just a key on a credit card (if you buy the "box" - no media inside) or a USB Authentication Dongle (also no install disc).

Sys admins and installers will likely still be able to put ISO's on USB sticks (or whatever exists in the future) to do faster local installs, but physical media is already all but dead. It's going to go away sooner than later. The only thing holding back the tide some-what is people that live in rural areas and countries in the third world.
 
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GotNoRice

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With Windows 10 and Windows 11, you need specialty tools like Rufus that does some sort of processing to the image before placing it on a USB stick, OR you need to use the Windows Media Creation Tool.

I've never quite understood why, and why they made it so convoluted.

They made available the Media Creation tool which is simple, easy to use, and gets the job done. How is that convoluted?
 

Randall Stephens

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Never is a really long time. You think in 50 years there will be CD's and DVD's? A 100? A thousand years from now we'll still be stuck on physical media? It's inevitable.

On the macOS side there hasn't been physical media since 2012. On Linux, I don't know if a single distro comes on physical media unless you burn it yourself. There is no software whether professional or game that I don't obtain through digital distribution. Even stuff like Resolve is just a key on a credit card (if you buy the "box" - no media inside) or a USB Authentication Dongle (also no install disc).

Sys admins and installers will likely still be able to put ISO's on USB sticks (or whatever exists in the future) to do faster local installs, but physical media is already all but dead. It's going to go away sooner than later. The only thing holding back the tide some-what is people that live in rural areas and countries in the third world.
I guess I forgot the /s :)
 

Lakados

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Curious would it be a good idea or even matter if you used Rufus to disable TPM and Secure Boot bypass even on a PC that does support Windows 11? Just because mainly. Would that be stupid ?
On 11 because of how it encrypts some stuff, you could do it but you may take a performance hit. TPM2 really speeds up a lot of local HDD encryption stuff.
 

Axman

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Never happen. We still get game boxes with cds and dvds. Why would windows be any different?

Only for businesses with site licensing. We're only a couple of years away from this with Windows. I wouldn't be surprised if it's Windows 12.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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They made available the Media Creation tool which is simple, easy to use, and gets the job done. How is that convoluted?

It's very convoluted if you don't have access to a windows machine you can run it on as admin.

There are workarounds, but it is far from straight forward, especially when linux shows us how easy it CAN be.
 

Axman

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There are workarounds, but it is far from straight forward, especially when linux shows us how easy it CAN be.

Windows *will* be easier. It will be a joystick you plug in and select which version of Windows Microsoft gives you.

This is why I think the Steam Deck is more important than anything Linux has ever done.

It's giving gamers options.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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It's giving gamers options.

Meh.

Gaming is mostly unimportant. it's a nice distraction from the drudgery of every day life, sure, but in the grand scheme of things it isn't important in the slightest.

I'm more concerned about the limits these authoritarian actions by Microsoft and others place on peoples freedom to use their technology the way they want to, using the software they want to, and the platforms they want to without being spied on in exchange.

Gaming could go away in its entirety, and sure, I'd miss it, but it still wouldn't be a big deal. It's just entertainment. Freedom to use electronic devices, computers and the internet the way we want, in complete privacy is a much more important issue, and a battle we have been outright losing for 20 years.

Gaming? Whatever.
 

Axman

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Gaming? Whatever.

It's important to gamers.

Microsoft is using gamers as the early adopter force for Direct X and other cutting-edge features that make new hardware and software adoption so important. They already now they can sell Windows as a service to the plebs. They've been doing it for a decade, with the introduction of Windows 8.

Most users don't care. Only power users do.

Gamers are power users, even if they don't look it. Privacy, security, and offline use are key points to software ownership. Gaming is the salient that will bring people into action.
 

apopleptic

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Having my independent computer somehow tied to a cloud account is a complete non-negotiable for me.

I do not have a Microsoft account now, and I will never have a Microsoft account.

Similarly, I would never use an apple device for the same reason, as it requires you to create an Apple account.

If the computer is not managed 100% locally, I want no part of it.
So you won't use Microsoft because you have to use a proprietary account to access a system they operate.
And likewise you won't use Apple because THEY make you use their own account...
What about your bank? Will you use a proprietary account there? Or is there a large cache of gold somewhere you've buried because you don't trust any business that requires you to sign up? (mostly sarcasm with a little bit of honest curiosity)
 
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I've only messed with Windows 11 in a VM, can't say I'm impressed. When the day comes that 11 will be required for the newest graphics / games, this link is going to be very helpful. When i setup a VM with Windows 11, at the time, a local account was just fine for install. Mandatory online account though for an OS install? Silly. I have one of those xBox accounts for MS games, but I do not link it to my OS when it asks, just seems unnecessary.
 

Odigo

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Using Outlook as my primary e-mail for me it wasn't a huge deal to login with my account on my main computer.. that being said I found it annoying once I installed Windows 11 on my HTPC an account was also required. I ended up creating a random account. I find it odd that they make this a requirement. To me it's a waste of server resources.. You think you'd want 2 million of active account instead of 5 million with most being only used for purpose of OS install.
 

wandplus

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Can anyone recall the last headline confirming you can't install Win11 on a 7000 series CPU? I think the Gigabyte H170M-D3H has TPM 2.0 support but just not sure if it's possible to install Win11.
 

Odigo

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Can anyone recall the last headline confirming you can't install Win11 on a 7000 series CPU? I think the Gigabyte H170M-D3H has TPM 2.0 support but just not sure if it's possible to install Win11.

8th gen and higher.. you can bypass with Rufus though.
 

Axman

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[Looks up from a game of Battlefield 4 under Lutris running Linux with the same performance I experienced under Windows...]

Saying gaming on Linux is here has been a thing for well over 20 years and it's always been a lie. Honestly, the only way Linux gaming takes off is if Valve throws their back into it while Microsoft breaks Windows.

Hey, lookie what's happening!
 

Zarathustra[H]

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So you won't use Microsoft because you have to use a proprietary account to access a system they operate.
And likewise you won't use Apple because THEY make you use their own account...
What about your bank? Will you use a proprietary account there? Or is there a large cache of gold somewhere you've buried because you don't trust any business that requires you to sign up? (mostly sarcasm with a little bit of honest curiosity)

There is nothing about an operating system that requires cloud account tie ins. Nothing at all. It is a fabricated construct of stupidity and attempted market manipulation (and probably data collection as well) and I will fight that shit until the day I die. Microsoft makes it a mandatory part of Windows, I'll just wipe my windows partitions. I will not give in on this point no matter what. It is a complete and utter non-negotiable at any price.

Banks - on the other hand - kind of don't work without it. They can't keep trakc of what money is yours, etc. if you don't have an account, but even there there ought to be some limits on what they can do with the information regarding your account.
 

Lakados

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It's very convoluted if you don't have access to a windows machine you can run it on as admin.

There are workarounds, but it is far from straight forward, especially when linux shows us how easy it CAN be.
Why do you need a windows machine?
You know Microsoft just lets you download the ISO right?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11

You don’t need the media creation tool, they just made it available because it’s easy. But for Mac or Linux people you can just choose the ISO.
 

DukenukemX

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With everything linux, I can just take the bootable ISO image, and write it to a USB stick and it just works, and boots and I can install.

With Windows 10 and Windows 11, you need specialty tools like Rufus that does some sort of processing to the image before placing it on a USB stick, OR you need to use the Windows Media Creation Tool.
I found this awesome tool you'd like. It basically formats your USB with a special bootloader that allows you to just place ISO images and boot from it from a menu. So one USB stick can have multiple ISO's to boot from, which is handy for upgrading or reinstalling an OS.

https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html
I've never quite understood why, and why they made it so convoluted.
It's called a deterrent. Everyone wants the option to do what they want and Microsoft knows that option will always be to avoid making or logging into a Microsoft account.


Never is a really long time. You think in 50 years there will be CD's and DVD's? A 100? A thousand years from now we'll still be stuck on physical media? It's inevitable.
To be fair physical media is dead only because nobody wants to invest into it. It's going to get to the point where a USB stick is not only going to be cheap but fast enough to even rival SSD's.
Sys admins and installers will likely still be able to put ISO's on USB sticks (or whatever exists in the future) to do faster local installs, but physical media is already all but dead. It's going to go away sooner than later. The only thing holding back the tide some-what is people that live in rural areas and countries in the third world.
The only reason physical media is needed is because companies are assholes. You download it then you don't own it, as Apple reminds you all the time you use their products. You buy it on physical media and now you do own it and have rights. Until the court gives digital rights ownership to the consumer, I'm in favor of physical media. It's one of those situations where you think you do but you don't.

Foamy did warn you over 10 years ago about this.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx4HcsRMfAwqyKPACIWNA1X0V9_DkZk6M9

This is why I think the Steam Deck is more important than anything Linux has ever done.

It's giving gamers options.
Keep in mind the Steam Deck wouldn't be a thing if it wasn't for everything done on Linux. I'm not even talking about Kernel level stuff either. It was Linux gamers who basically beta tested the Steam Deck for you for the past several years. Or do you think things like DXVK, ACO, Proton, RADV, and so much more shit that enables the Steam Deck to work, just came about the moment the Steam Deck was released? Us Linux gamers made that happen.
 

gamerk2

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You buy it on physical media and now you do own it and have rights. Until the court gives digital rights ownership to the consumer, I'm in favor of physical media. It's one of those situations where you think you do but you don't.
Not true; regardless of what form the media exists on, you are still bound by the EULA. And the EULAs have been quite clear for literally decades: You own the right to use the software, as is, but ownership belongs to the creators.
 

LurkerLito

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So you won't use Microsoft because you have to use a proprietary account to access a system they operate.
And likewise you won't use Apple because THEY make you use their own account...
What about your bank? Will you use a proprietary account there? Or is there a large cache of gold somewhere you've buried because you don't trust any business that requires you to sign up? (mostly sarcasm with a little bit of honest curiosity)
There is a big difference between computer accounts and banks. If you do something a bank doesn't like they still have to give you back YOUR money. While MS and Apple, you do something they don't like they get to ban you and take away EVERYTHING you bought associated to that account. So yeah tying an OS to a user account is a terrible idea. I have first hand experience in that when steam's payment processor screwed up and my account of almost 2k games at the time was suspended and support threatened to permanently take it away because their payment processor fucked up. So yeah MS store bad idea, MS OS tied to MS account an even worse idea.
 

wandplus

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There is a big difference between computer accounts and banks. If you do something a bank doesn't like they still have to give you back YOUR money. While MS and Apple, you do something they don't like they get to ban you and take away EVERYTHING you bought associated to that account. So yeah tying an OS to a user account is a terrible idea. I have first hand experience in that when steam's payment processor screwed up and my account of almost 2k games at the time was suspended and support threatened to permanently take it away because their payment processor fucked up. So yeah MS store bad idea, MS OS tied to MS account an even worse idea.
Yeah, there are too many reasons why associating an account to an OS is a wrong idea. This would force me to go to Linux. There's no way this is acceptable at all.
 

DukenukemX

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Not true; regardless of what form the media exists on, you are still bound by the EULA. And the EULAs have been quite clear for literally decades: You own the right to use the software, as is, but ownership belongs to the creators.
Yea nobody cares. The idea behind the EULA is that you can't take it and sell the software as if you're the creator. You can resale it and pass it on because it's on physical media. You can't do that with digital downloads. What's the difference between me taking my licensed software and putting on a USB stick and selling that stick, vs selling a CD made by the company?
 

Mazzspeed

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You cherry picked a 9 years old computer game, man one that even had it's source code hacked.
I did nothing of the sort. I like the game, it's still a very popular title and one of the best released in the Battlefield series.

Would you like me to quote one of the many newer titles that also run under Linux? This idea that PC users actually 'want to' be locked to one proprietary OS boggles my mind. I'm actually honestly suspecting it may be a generational thing, as we're in a time where Windows is all certain generations have ever known and have been conditioned to use from the moment they started school.

Which is actually quite sad.
 

Axman

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I'm actually honestly suspecting it may be a generational thing, as we're in a time where Windows is all certain generations have ever known and have been conditioned to use from the moment they started school.

I started using Red Hat when I was 15. I've been down the rabbit hole. I still even have my Open Pandora somewhere around here...
 

Axman

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Although AmigaOS 3.1 was my fav release, still use it to this day on an accelerated Amiga 1200.

Fun!

I still think gaming on Windows (natively or with a virtual desktop) is just easier. Which is why I slammed my money into pre-ordering the Deck as fast as I could. I think gaming on Linux can be improved, and will be, as long as we back it with cash money.

There's a lot of money that gets pumped into Linux development for sure, but it's not for gaming. Hell, it's barely even for desktop users.

The iron's heating up right now, with Windows getting kinda creepy uncle and Valve dumping money into gaming on Linux. Time to strike it.
 

Mazzspeed

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I still think gaming on Windows (natively or with a virtual desktop) is just easier. Which is why I slammed my money into pre-ordering the Deck as fast as I could. I think gaming on Linux can be improved, and will be, as long as we back it with cash money.
Honestly, using either the installer script under Lutris or installing using Proton via Steam, I find installing games no harder than under Windows. Quite some time back Origin was a PITA to update under Lutris, but I haven't had an issue in that regard for well over a year now. Edit: Come to think of it, I think Windows users were encountering the exact same Origin updating issues at the time...

A while back I was even playing Detroit Become Human via the Epic game store using Lutris and the install was faultless.
 
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Wade88

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I did nothing of the sort. I like the game, it's still a very popular title and one of the best released in the Battlefield series.

Would you like me to quote one of the many newer titles that also run under Linux? This idea that PC users actually 'want to' be locked to one proprietary OS boggles my mind. I'm actually honestly suspecting it may be a generational thing, as we're in a time where Windows is all certain generations have ever known and have been conditioned to use from the moment they started school.

Which is actually quite sad.
It's my favorite computer game of the 2010s and I still play it periodically but still, you can run that stuff on celeron toasters.
 

Mazzspeed

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It's my favorite computer game of the 2010s and I still play it periodically but still, you can run that stuff on celeron toasters.
That'd want to be a hell of a Celeron, what resolution are you running? 640x480? Even then it'd be a slideshow. While the game may have been released in 2010, it's seen a number of upgrades since then - as a result It's age makes it no less demanding today.

Linux is now essentially Win32 compatible, and gaming under Linux is often faster than gaming under Windows, especially where Vulkan is concerned.

Instead of negativity, how about a little positivity that there's more choice in the world? Especially when such choice isn't controlled by greedy corporations.
 
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Hagrid

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I have not even looked into 11. I didn't even like 8 or 10. 10 does works with classic shell for me. Does 11 need the same?
I also am not sure I even have a ms account.....
 
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