Microsoft Surface Pro The Template For New PCs?

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I don't know about the Surface Pro being the "template for new PCs" but it is definitely a thousand percent better than the RT model.

PC makers take note. Microsoft is pioneering the next PC. Here are two simple reasons why the Surface Pro makes a good case as the template for the new PC. One, Microsoft realized that the device's electronics should go behind the glass, not under the keyboard. Two, the device uses a real processor.
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It feels like an awkward but interesting middle ground. On one hand you have the users that just want email/web/FB, in which case this tablet(?) would be a bit of overkill in more ways than one. You also have those that use the much more intensive programs such as games, graphic/3D design, and video/photo editing, and this thing would be under-powered/small compared to a standard computer.

I definitely think this is a cool idea however and am not try to put it down.
 
Why don't we decide after its been in the wild for a while and people can see how it goes? Until then, its just hype.
 
Here we go again, a low-end spec'd laptop is going to replace PC's.

No docking station, limited disk space, limited ram and the small screen makes this unusable by most the people with laptops in my office.
Add in the high cost (compared to other laptops with a similar CPU), and the only advantage is the size & weight.
 
I am sure that I will need to put on my flamesuit after this, but why do people hate Windows RT so much? Personally, I see it as the Microsoft equivalent of the iPad. No one expects the iPad to run desktop MacOS applications -- why do people expect Windows RT devices to run desktop Windows applications?
 
Surface and Surface Pro are the templates of MS's continuing problems when trying to enter new hardware markets.
 
Microsoft defines the new PC by putting the electronics of its TABLET behind the monitor, really?
All iPad owners must feel cheated with what is now, I assume, the obsolete location of their electronics.
The tablets will probably encourage laptop (not PC) manufacturers to also shift the electronics behind the monitor, but it is definitely not a feat of the Surface Pro, more like a feat of Windows 8, which opens the tablet market to PCs.

At least the author is right on the Haswell processors, I even would go further as saying prospective buyers should wait for the more power efficient fourth generation of Intel Core processors before getting a Surface Pro, the current generation will only frustrate users too much, tethering their wireless tablet to the power cable forever.
 
svet-am said:
I am sure that I will need to put on my flamesuit after this, but why do people hate Windows RT so much? Personally, I see it as the Microsoft equivalent of the iPad. No one expects the iPad to run desktop MacOS applications -- why do people expect Windows RT devices to run desktop Windows applications?
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I would assume any "hate" towards RT is MS's own doing by trying to make it look but not actually be identical to the real Windows. So users try it out/buy it and find they can't run what they normally would on Windows and are forced to wait for special apps to be created, of which MS has the least of the big three mobile's OS's.
 
Wait put the electronics behind the glass, how could we have been so stupid of course...Oh, hi smart phones, tablets, Sony Viao PC's, HP Envy, and iMacs from the last five years:rolleyes:

Maybe the future of general consumer laptops, but certainly not the PC.
 
Why is the heat producing hardware better behind the heat producing "glass"? So you can have more heat in a smaller space? :p
 
So overpriced, disposable, and with a tiny screen? Future of computers?

7-14" screens might be the all the rage when it comes to tablets but who the hell wants to do all of their daily computing on a screen that size? Most people haven't used screens 15" or less on their computers since the 90's and you can get 27" monitors now for <$250.

As someone who builds and upgrades computers for people, I end up upgrading people's monitors almost as much as I upgrade their PCs. Unless their current computer is totally crap, going from a ~17-19" monitor to a 24-27" monitor is going to be a bigger useability upgrade than almost anything. Satisfaction is very high among my customers after a monitor upgrade.

Screen size of the Surface Pro is 10.6 inches... I didn't even use a monitor that small back in the DOS days. Not terrible as a tablet replacement, but laughable as a PC replacement.
 
GotNoRice said:
So overpriced, disposable, and with a tiny screen? Future of computers?
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One of the problems with desktops is that they are too user servicable and upgradable, and last too long. This is the opposite, and way more expensive. The industry always pushes the more expensive form factor with the least durabilty. :D
 
DeathPrincess said:
One of the problems with desktops is that they are too user servicable and upgradable, and last too long. This is the opposite, and way more expensive. The industry always pushes the more expensive form factor with the least durabilty. :D
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In other words, planned obsolescence.

Unfortunately, consumers decided the desktop PC is all but dead when they started buying more and more smartphones, tablets and other mobile devices that the majority of they normally do day-to-day can be down on something they can carry around. That and the idea of a larger desktop computer they probably can't fix themselves isn't something they need unless they need the extra processing power and storage.
 
CLIFF NOTES: regardless of how much makeup anyone puts on the pig, portable will always be, if not a failed form factor, a significantly gimped form factor, at least
 
jstnomega said:
CLIFF NOTES: regardless of how much makeup anyone puts on the pig, portable will always be, if not a failed form factor, a significantly gimped form factor, at least
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I agree to a point. The portable device _itself_ will be gimped but I see a not-so-distant day where our portables just dock into something that has a beefier CPU, more RAM, etc. and the portable (during the docked session) returns to being "just a screen."

With high bandwidth interfaces like DisplayPort, PCIe Gen3, etc., the technology exists -- we just need someone to do it.
 
GotNoRice said:
So overpriced, disposable, and with a tiny screen? Future of computers?

7-14" screens might be the all the rage when it comes to tablets but who the hell wants to do all of their daily computing on a screen that size? Most people haven't used screens 15" or less on their computers since the 90's and you can get 27" monitors now for <$250.

As someone who builds and upgrades computers for people, I end up upgrading people's monitors almost as much as I upgrade their PCs. Unless their current computer is totally crap, going from a ~17-19" monitor to a 24-27" monitor is going to be a bigger useability upgrade than almost anything. Satisfaction is very high among my customers after a monitor upgrade.

Screen size of the Surface Pro is 10.6 inches... I didn't even use a monitor that small back in the DOS days. Not terrible as a tablet replacement, but laughable as a PC replacement.
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I feel like you're missing the fact that the Surface has a micro-HDMI port and can power 2+ displays.

I mean, the article is a bit stupid and misuses the term 'PC' when he should be saying 'laptop,' but I don't think it's a stretch to believe the tablet hybrid will be the template for new laptops (in fact, it already is unless you're Apple.)

And it is just a template, like a reference video card. There's currently flaws with the Surface Pro like the weak keyboards and lack of a docking station, but Lenovo has already amended those and I'm sure the Haswell ultrabooks will fix most of them as well.
 
jstnomega said:
CLIFF NOTES: regardless of how much makeup anyone puts on the pig, portable will always be, if not a failed form factor, a significantly gimped form factor, at least
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The vast majority of users don't need full powered i5s and i7s. We've gotten to a point where the ULV chips cover nearly all the bases for consumers' usages.

People who need to compile or render will obviously still need PCs, but most people, including most Office using business people, don't need that much power so being gimped is alright.
 
octoberasian said:
Unfortunately, consumers decided the desktop PC is all but dead when they started buying more and more smartphones, tablets and other mobile devices that the majority of they normally do day-to-day can be down on something they can carry around.
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That's simply not what I'm seeing. How many people do their taxes or even something as simple as excel on a tablet? Not many. Tablets have replaced computers for those who's computing amounts to browsing facebook, checking email, and playing Angry Birds. The thing is, some (read: lots) people still use their computers to get actual work done. Even the most hardcore tablet proponents still throw around words like "most" when it comes to talking about traditional computing that has been replaced by tablets. What about the rest?

Also not everyone is so enthusiastic about having their monitor essentially married to their computer. The large computer monitor experience is something that is still yet to be replicated by a handheld device.

That and the idea of a larger desktop computer they probably can't fix themselves isn't something they need unless they need the extra processing power and storage.
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I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. Anyone who can't fix a computer themselves isn't going to be able to fix a tablet themselves either. But at least a computer CAN be repaired by someone for reasonable cost without praying you got an expensive warranty.

How many people these days have actually replaced their computer with a tablet or smart phone? I see people supplementing their usage, and using their computer less perhaps, but none that have actually stopped using their computer.
 
octoberasian said:
In other words, planned obsolescence.

Unfortunately, consumers decided the desktop PC is all but dead when they started buying more and more smartphones, tablets and other mobile devices that the majority of they normally do day-to-day can be down on something they can carry around. That and the idea of a larger desktop computer they probably can't fix themselves isn't something they need unless they need the extra processing power and storage.
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Yes!

I think it's also manafacturers. Go into a store, for a while and there have only been laptops, no desktops. To buy a desktop, even online is a hassle because not many of the big companies will offer them before laptops, and not really try in any way to promote their benefits or purpose!

But as it's better for them, it's not surprising they do it. Or why they push weaker and more brekable and obsolete devices more than ever. Damned tablets. :D
 
GotNoRice said:
That's simply not what I'm seeing. How many people do their taxes or even something as simple as excel on a tablet? Not many. Tablets have replaced computers for those who's computing amounts to browsing facebook, checking email, and playing Angry Birds. The thing is, some (read: lots) people still use their computers to get actual work done. Even the most hardcore tablet proponents still throw around words like "most" when it comes to talking about traditional computing that has been replaced by tablets. What about the rest?

Also not everyone is so enthusiastic about having their monitor essentially married to their computer. The large computer monitor experience is something that is still yet to be replicated by a handheld device.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. Anyone who can't fix a computer themselves isn't going to be able to fix a tablet themselves either. But at least a computer CAN be repaired by someone for reasonable cost without praying you got an expensive warranty.

How many people these days have actually replaced their computer with a tablet or smart phone? I see people supplementing their usage, and using their computer less perhaps, but none that have actually stopped using their computer.
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Yeah, people haven't stopped using their desktop computers. I'm not saying they have. People still use their computers for things that their smartphone or tablet can't do. However, Microsoft is declaring the Surface Pro a template for new PCs as more of a response to market demands right now from how I see it. Sales of desktop PCs have gone down, while mobile devices have gone up. Our future computers may look more like tablets thanks to Microsoft and that may not be a good thing-- touchscreen interfaces, entry-level to mid-range CPU and GPU performance, small form factors, low energy usage.

My response was more to DeathPrincess' remarks regarding how desktop PCs last longer and are too user-serviceable. Think about it, this is a business remark from Microsoft. If they can get more people in tablets and mobile devices, they can probably make more money out of it than out of desktop PCs. A desktop PC nowadays can probably still run software released 5 years from now. Software hasn't advanced far enough where it'd require a consumer to buy a new, more powerful computer. A new tablet/smartphone is released every 6 months to a year. And, the way they are now, they work more like Apple's iPhone-- new hardware is released, older phones can't run the newer software, so people end up buying the newer hardware.

There are still that small, very small part of the computer market like you and I that need a more powerful computer for gaming, for work, and for other things we can't do on a tablet. Unfortunately, we do not affect the direction of the market as much as other consumers that make a larger part of it. Most consumers use email, social networking, Youtube, Netflix, Hulu, web browsing on their desktop computers that they can also do on their smartphones and tablets. Common, normal people unlike you and I, and they may do some light gaming. These people represent the large amount of money in the computing market.

Wherever the money is, the companies will follow. Microsoft is doing nothing different in that regard.
 
GotNoRice said:
I see people supplementing their usage, and using their computer less perhaps, but none that have actually stopped using their computer.
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I think that's the purpose of the x86 tablet. We already know people have begun replacing their PCs with laptops. Now it's just a matter of replacing the laptop with a tablet. People didn't do Excel and such on tablets before because tablets were dinky little ARM systems that couldn't support full fledged programs. Now they can.
 
The electronics being behind the glass or under the keyboard makes little difference to me, except for the weight distribution......thus requiring a flip out stand to hold it up (not sure how well this will work over time). Seems like a dock with a full keyboard would be more practical (atleast for any stationary use). I would like to see a Win7 option though. This might be perfect for certain specific things. I am glad to hear that they are more concerned with giving it a stronger processor.

Ultimately:
I still don't really understand the whole "tablet craze". I absolutely don't understand how things like this can be seen as "the new pc". I have yet to see ANY tablet type thing that's even a tenth of a computer as compared to a desktop (even a ten year old desktop).

well....I'll just wait and see what happens
 
These guys can't even make a proper OS anymore, and now they're going to try to tell us what the future of the PC is going to be? Too funny. Sounds like wishful thinking on their part rather than something close to reality.
 
Madoc said:
These guys can't even make a proper OS anymore, and now they're going to try to tell us what the future of the PC is going to be? Too funny. Sounds like wishful thinking on their part rather than something close to reality.
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I still remember when MS(along with Intel) were the ones back in 2009 trying to push the low-end PC market into netbooks until the iPad came out and tablets made those netbooks all but obsolete now.
 
svet-am said:
I am sure that I will need to put on my flamesuit after this, but why do people hate Windows RT so much? Personally, I see it as the Microsoft equivalent of the iPad. No one expects the iPad to run desktop MacOS applications -- why do people expect Windows RT devices to run desktop Windows applications?
Click to expand...

Hate would be an overdramatization. Confusion is better descriptive of the situation on the ground, and is the reason "key partners" like Samsung have ditched their RT plans.

Saying its the Microsoft equivalent of the iPad would be true if the iPad had no apps.

Why do people expect >Windows< RT devices to run Windows applications? Does that question really need to be asked? Because WINDOWS RT. Microsoft's stubbornness to brand EVERYTHING windows is what's sinking their mobile ambitions,.
 
odditory said:
Hate would be an overdramatization. Confusion is better descriptive of the situation on the ground, and is the reason "key partners" like Samsung have ditched their RT plans.

Saying its the Microsoft equivalent of the iPad would be true if the iPad had no apps.

Why do people expect >Windows< RT devices to run Windows applications? Does that question really need to be asked? Because WINDOWS RT. Microsoft's stubbornness to brand EVERYTHING windows is what's sinking their mobile ambitions,.
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Your argument doesn't make sense.

1) Windows RT has access to the exact same apps as x86 Windows 8 -- anything written for the Metro layer is portable

2) No got confused about running x86 >Windows< apps on >Windows< Mobile devices...
 
Jaerb4 said:
I mean, the article is a bit stupid and misuses the term 'PC' when he should be saying 'laptop,' but I don't think it's a stretch to believe the tablet hybrid will be the template for new laptops (in fact, it already is unless you're Apple.)
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Wishful thinking. "Tablet hybrid" is no less of a CE industry gimmick than "3DTV".

Look at the #1 selling device on Amazon in the laptop category. Samsung Chrome book. No touchscreen gimmicks, no nonsense.
 
svet-am said:
Your argument doesn't make sense.

1) Windows RT has access to the exact same apps as x86 Windows 8 -- anything written for the Metro layer is portable

2) No got confused about running x86 >Windows< apps on >Windows< Mobile devices...
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1) That's the problem - has anything really been written for the Metro layer? I mean besides quick ports like Angry Birds and Netflix, or Microsoft's built in apps.

2) Really? How many people have bought Window Phone 8 or its predecessors. There's no one confused because there's no one with the device.
 
jstnomega said:
CLIFF NOTES: regardless of how much makeup anyone puts on the pig, portable will always be, if not a failed form factor, a significantly gimped form factor, at least
Click to expand...

so, it's like portable sex with a three legged piglet? ok, got it...
 
odditory said:
1) That's the problem - has anything really been written for the Metro layer? I mean besides quick ports like Angry Birds and Netflix, or Microsoft's built in apps.
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I'm done with this point -- obviously you've not used one of the devices (or even played with the Windows 8 evaluation) because if you had then you'd see that there are lots of apps available.

odditory said:
2) Really? How many people have bought Window Phone 8 or its predecessors. There's no one confused because there's no one with the device.
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Apparently, you missed the entire era pre-"smart phone" when there were Windows Mobile PDA's, etc. that were very prevalent -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile#Market_share
 
odditory said:
Wishful thinking. "Tablet hybrid" is no less of a CE industry gimmick than "3DTV".

Look at the #1 selling device on Amazon in the laptop category. Samsung Chrome book. No touchscreen gimmicks, no nonsense.
Click to expand...
Yes, and they sell to schools and children the way Apple did before. But Google Docs, as convenient as it is, is not an Office replacement.

Chromebooks are the low end. Tablet hybrids are the middle/professional end.
 
After reading all the comments up to this point. I would like to set the record straight on the Surface RT and Surface Pro.

I bought a Surface RT for myself for Christmas to see how it would hold up against an iPad in real life use. I am the IT Director in charge of national company that is all over the US. So I needed a device that can do real world functional work on the move and my iPad was a pain in the ass for Remote management and support task. So I loaded up everything that I needed to function on a daily basis on the Surface RT and pummeled it for entire week to see how it would stand up against the iPad.
So after the week working with the Surface RT, my iPad ended up on eBay and I never looked back.

The Surface RT is very much misunderstood device. After using it now for about 2 months and still rocking, I can tell Windows RT is not a watered down version of Windows. It is still a full blown OS just been complied for ARM CPU&#8217;s. Yes there are something&#8217;s missing that are in the x86 version, but know how many times I needed those missing options, Zero. It still has almost 95% functionality as Windows x86 and this point drop kicked the iPad in the goods. I have no need to install full blown Windows apps on it since if I had a need for any of those apps. I would undoubtedly use my Workstation, but being mobile. I have yet to find an equal for the RT. (Just FYI I had an ASUS Transformer before iPad3 and both now have been passed to eBay.)

Now looking at the Surface Pro and seeing so many haters calling, overpriced, under powered, and too small. Well again, if your will to pay $700 for a fully loaded iPad and still stuck with basically a large cell phone. Then yes it may be over priced for you, but then again, you are paying for a device that should MSRP for more around $399 rather than the $699 so I don&#8217;t see that complaint of being overpriced relevant when your already getting rapped for another product.

The Surface Pro is in a class of its own. It is not a tablet and it is not an Ultrabook. For those I have seen bitching that you can&#8217;t run Photoshop or CAD on it. I say really? WTF, you are really going to do that kind of work on a 10&#8221; screen. I would never think of running Maya or Lightwave on something like that no matter what balls it was packing. Now when they release the station dock (and it is coming) for the Surface Pro then yes I could see you docking it and using it as a workstations, but that is almost just asinine bitching cause you can use those types of workstation apps on a tablet sized device. It&#8217;s like bitching your Toyota Yaris can&#8217;t keep up with Stock Cars in the Daytona 500. Why did you buy a Yaris when you need a Stock Car.?

Everyone is thinking that these devices are supposed to DTR (Desktop Replacements) and that is not it at all. They are mobile companion devices. So if your apps will not work on the Surface Pro then guess what. Don&#8217;t use one, buy an Ultrabook and problem solved. Just don&#8217;t damn a product that, for one, is being skewed as something it&#8217;s not supposed to be and second, no one has physically had a chance to play with yet. (Except for those of us that went to CES this year) So wait till you can actually hold one to make a comment on it.

The PC is never going to die, that is a given, but 85% of the people in the world never used a PC to its fullest potential. So this is where these less devices come in. Yes, little kids and non-computer savvy users that just want, Facebook, angry birds and content consumption, The iPad's, android tablets and even the Surface RT are perfect for them. But we power user&#8217;s need something with more junk in its trunk and that is really the home for the Surface products. Surface RT for mild use and content consumption and the Surface Pro for balls out workload. (Again if you need special applications on the go then it may not be for you then.)

So when looking at these devices, comparing them to an iPad or Android tablet is like comparing an Apple to an Potato. They may be in the device class, but their functionality is worlds different.

Written on my Surface RT.
 
svet-am said:
I'm done with this point -- obviously you've not used one of the devices (or even played with the Windows 8 evaluation) because if you had then you'd see that there are lots of apps available.
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If you say so. Meanwhile Window 8 is my daily driver. MS can throw out big inflated #'s of Metro apps to feign relevance - 40000 apps, 1 million apps, whatever they're calling it these days, but when you filter the noise and look at the top30 paid and free apps in the Store, its sad.

svet-am said:
Apparently, you missed the entire era pre-"smart phone" when there were Windows Mobile PDA's, etc. that were very prevalent -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile#Market_share
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No in fact I owned and promoted such devices within the Enterprise I worked with at the time, but thats not helping MS in its current struggles to find a foothold anywhere in mobile. Its not translating. In any case its not brain surgery to understand people will have less expectations of a phone form factor than a tablet in terms of its ability to run legacy windows apps. The main problem is MS marketing a full fledged x86 Surface in parallel that does run legacy apps, and its precisely this marketplace confusion that Samsung stated as the reason they backed away.
 
Just to throw my two cents on the app issue.
Everyone I see is bitching about the lack of apps for Windows 8. Well that is only a problem for the Surface RT and it would be a problem if all the uneducated hates would stop spewing their bullshit drivel about how bad Windows 8 is.
Granted I am a certified genius and it only took me two days to completely adjust to Windows 8 UI. I cannot see that many people have an issues with Windows 8 UI, especially when my own dumb ass (meant in the kindest of ways) users figured it out in our office environment in less than a week. So many computer savvy users are having so many problems with it? Though the last person I called out on it that said he used it and said it suck. He had only installed the CP, played with it for 15min and uninstalled it. That does not count as using it. That&#8217;s the same as playing &#8220;Just the tip&#8221; with the prom queen and saying you banged her on prom night.
Without this BS, the platform could grow and bring the attention of the developers so there could be more apps, but until all the hates are or just stubborn lazy folk get over it. Then the apps will not come.

Surface Pro needs no apps. Every x86 app that lives now can be installed on it. So the app store is irrelevant for the Pro.
 
I'm still expecting to see substantial demand for Surface Pro style tablets in the coming months. People are really interested in x86 Windows tablets. It's way more portable than a full size laptop and does the basic tasks needed when you are away from the desktop.
 
svet-am said:
1) Windows RT has access to the exact same apps as x86 Windows 8 -- anything written for the Metro layer is portable
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Anything written to WinRT is portable, yes. But not everything is written to WinRT when developing a 'Modern UI' app, and some applications may be x86-only or ARM-only. Many C/C++ libraries, for instance, simply will not compile to ARM without significant issues. The store allows developers to make a choice as to what architectures their apps will run on, partially for this reason, and partially for others.

So, no, Windows RT may not necessarily have access to the same 'Modern UI' apps as x86. It may or may not be the case for all apps currently available in the store are both x86/ARM, but the onus is on you to prove your claim, not on me (or anyone else) to disprove it.
 
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