Microsoft Removes Group Policies From Windows 10 Pro

[Deleted member 108676]

How can they just take away a feature like this? I don't see this going well for them on the PR front.

Please. No one but the nerd rage nerds (me included) that visit forums like this give a fuck.

I'm so fucking pissed about this...especially after the fucktards in the OS forum jumped my nuts for not bending over and taking this shit.

 

[heatlesssun]

Has anyone here thought about bring your own device scenarios?

 

[nutzo]

This also could be a ploy to get companies to buy Enterprise licensing (more revenue) since they "lost" money on the free upgrades.

This.

I work for a small company and most the systems I buy come with Windows Pro already installed, which I leave and just join them to our domain.

Since we are a Microsoft developer, we get the enterprise licenses as part of our partnership, and I have more licenses than users.
I only have a few new systems running Windows 10 right now, but it looks like I'll need to start building images using our enterprise licenses instead.

 

[nutzo]

God uses a mac.

That would explain what a mess this planet is in....

 

[tetris42]

I'm calling bullshit on this claim. I've used both AMD/ATI and Nvidia over the years and have never noticed this visual difference. Did you try adjusting digital vibrance in the NV settings? Maybe the default setting was not to your liking.

Yeah, a couple things:

-I did a test just last year where I did a screenshot of a game with an Nvidia card, then the exact same one with an AMD one, later on I compared it, it was 100% identical.
-Nvidia has had an issue in the past where it displays a limited color range over HDMI. I believed they fixed it since then, however if ManOfGod used it during that time, his conclusion could be valid based on when he used it. Alternately, there's nothing saying Nvidia couldn't have re-broke it again with a driver update
-I personally have noticed a color loss on Youtube videos before (from last month) and wondered what the hell was going on, only to find out that Nvidia was using the limited color range by default again for video. I had to go into the control panel and forcibly tell it not to do that.

So it's possible he's not just making fantasy claims so much as he's doing not-as-comprehensive testing.

But yeah, back to the topic, I'm amazingly not seeing anyone defend this move by MS.

 

[DejaWiz]

Ultimate Edition with group policy intact inbound?

 

[Deleted member 245375]

Just for the record, the topic title is accurate if you are or were paying attention: the Windows 10 Anniversary Update is removing some Group Policies (not Group Policy Editor which is the console tool that assists in making the actual GP edits) - it is not removing the entire Editor, just some of the policies themselves that did exist in the pre-Anniversary Update builds (release and Threshold 2, basically).

As noted in previous posts by myself and others, the understood reasoning (ok, we're guessing but it makes perfect sense) for these particular policies being removed is to push business and commercial clients towards the new Enterprise (and Education, based on licensing) subscription model for pay-to-play becomes the norm.

 

[heatlesssun]

But yeah, back to the topic, I'm amazingly not seeing anyone defend this move by MS.

And this isn't so much of a defense as reason. As I asked earlier, what about bring you device scenarios? I don't try defend everything Microsoft does but I also don't see everything they do as nefarious or stupid. They actually do some things because, well, it makes sense. I'm not saying these changes are awesome and aren't problematic. But I've pointed out a situation where it does make sense as Windows 10 Pro is sold to consumers on countless machines and no one has actually pointed out exactly how these changes actually cause a problem in a domain environment. I get that some people just say "NO WINDOWS STORE" apps and that makes sense on tightly controlled machines, thus the Enterprise version. But if you have machines where people can just install whatever Win32 app they want, what exactly is the problem with Windows Store apps?

 

[heatlesssun]

As noted in previous posts by myself and others, the understood (ok, we're guessing but it makes perfect sense) for these particular policies being removed is to push business and commercial clients towards the new Enterprise (and Education, based on licensing) subscription model for pay-to-play becomes the norm.

Again, you're missing something else, bring your own devices.

 

[ChadD]

There is no Windows killer when it comes to 1) gaming, 2) popular productivity software like Office, to which people became accustomed, 3) basic computer usage training which people have already received at work or at home.

Windows was and (with some active resistance) is perfectly fine for getting stuff done. People know it, major software vendors code for it, the vocabulary is common knowledge.
If MS leaves SMBs and individual users with the short end of the stick, they will still have to bend over backwards when 7 and 8's EOLs arrive.

If you can't keep your SMB and home users happy, why would they take the plunge and buy your stuff for actual business/serious work?

1) gaming is moving away from windows... which is why MS trying to force developers onto W10 and DX12 just seems like a bad choice as well. It worked for them in the past so they are still acting like they have the clout to do that. Frankly I don't think they do. So far the only DX12 games really announced are all from developers that are owned or at least partially owned by MS. The truth is most of the biggest developers are more worried about mobile and making sure games can be easily coded to work on platforms other then desktops. I know talking mobile games seems crazy when we are talking about PC gaming... the simple fact however is in the next 1-3 years there is going to be a huge install base of phones that have GPU horsepower pretty much on par with the current generation PS4/Xbox... but they will be running ios and Android not windows. Meaning Vulkan and Metal are more important then DX for the future. A few years back the entire industry targeted the consoles, and we ended up with 14 years of DX9 games (I couldn't believe its been 14 years either but it has been).

2) If you plunk pretty much anyone who uses office every day down in front of a computer with a copy of Lib Office on it... they are fine. I have never heard a convincing argument from anyone as to how Office is in fact any better. For every silly little used feature they point out, I can find something just as useful in Lib Office that doesn't exist in MS Office.

3) Forget training... there are millions of people out there who know the ins and outs of Android at this point... and yes it isn't exactly linux, but it is. (and MS should be worried that at some point Google will make it official and ship Android desktop) Again give those people a machine running one of the user friendly Linux GUIs and they are right at home. Frankly take someone that has been using Windows 7, they will be more at home with Cinnamon, KDE, or Mate then Windows 10. Folks are training themselves and Linux really isn't all that different... Chrome Firefox aren't any different, Email programs like Thunderbird are again exactly the same. This isn't 1999 there isn't any more reason to use a Linux command line then there is to use Windows Powershell, nice to have but not required to fire it up and edit Documents, send emails and use web based databases.

As for programmers believe it or not... much of the "Windows" software your using was written by someone not running Windows.

The switch to a non windows world really is getting less and less an issue all the time... and MS isn't really helping themselves. I would say its a good time to sell my MS stock... but heck I got rid of mine thankfully before they bought Nokia.

 

[heatlesssun]

1) gaming is moving away from windows...

There's no objective evidence of PC gaming moving away from Windows.

I know talking mobile games seems crazy when we are talking about PC gaming... the simple fact however is in the next 1-3 years there is going to be a huge install base of phones that have GPU horsepower pretty much on par with the current generation PS4/Xbox... but they will be running ios and Android not windows.

We're talking about 5" to 6" screen devices that are all touchscreen. The games will be like Pokémon GO. Not Doom. Few will take their phones and hook large screens, keyboards and mice or controllers to them to play games any time soon. And they won't be paying $50+ for those games.

2) If you plunk pretty much anyone who uses office every day down in front of a computer with a copy of Lib Office on it... they are fine. I have never heard a convincing argument from anyone as to how Office is in fact any better. For every silly little used feature they point out, I can find something just as useful in Lib Office that doesn't exist in MS Office.

LibreOffice runs on Windows. One REALLY bad thing about it, and you mentioned about touch in Chrome being somehow disabled in Windows 10 which is something I've never seen, LibreOffice is TOTALY touch unaware. That's a kind of big deal with more and more 2 in 1 devices being sold. Indeed, that's a problem for Linux in general because it really doesn't work on those kinds of devices well.

 

[ChadD]

There's no objective evidence of PC gaming moving away from Windows.

Objective? All you have to do is look at the pathetic list of DX12 games and it seems pretty clear developers aren't dancing to their tune anymore. List of DirectX 12 games
The only upcoming DX12 games are MS owned... running the Unreal engine... or are never going to happen and are produced by developers that would say anything if it will get one more person to throw them free $ *cough Chris Roberts*

We're talking about 5" to 6" screen devices that are all touchscreen. The games will be like Pokémon GO. Not Doom. Few will take their phones and hook large screens, keyboards and mice or controllers to them to play games any time soon. And they won't be paying $50+ for those games.

I seem to remember 15 or so years back hearing the exact same thing... just because developers are going to be targeting TVs that doesn't mean they aren't going to still produce games for my uber super great high resolution PC. I'm sorry the last 10 years of PC games has been utter junk... sure there has been some classics for sure lots of games I love. The vast majority though have been terrible console ports. Well I hate to say it... where in for the next stretch of Mobile ready gaming. As fantastic as a new Doom game is in the looks dept the bottom line is Candy Crush makes more money in one week then that game will ever rack up. So that's where its going... I'm not saying its going to be great for us as gamers, we better prey to the digital gods that they start squeezing some faster hardware into the mobile space.

LibreOffice runs on Windows. One REALLY bad thing about it, and you mentioned about touch in Chrome being somehow disabled in Windows 10 which is something I've never seen, LibreOffice is TOTALY touch unaware. That's a kind of big deal with more and more 2 in 1 devices being sold. Indeed, that's a problem for Linux in general because it really doesn't work on those kinds of devices well.

Touch works just fine on Linux... the Ubuntu guys have been selling 2in1s for awhile. The bottom line is no one really is buying them. I'm not sure where you are getting the more people buying 2in1s from.. from everything I have seen in the industry its a bad time to be invested in companies looking to make profit in that dept. I really don't think there is a big market push for touch aware word processing. (at least I hope not cause wtf its a word processor folks not a paint program) As I have been saying its not current Linux MS should be concerned with. We all know the world isn't going to switch to full on linux today no matter how bad MS W10 deal gets. They should be worried that their stupidity is opening a big window a company like Google could walk in and exploit in a hurry. If Google decides to do that and create a goobuntu/Android/Chrome Super platform (which they are going to do, the only question is when) they will have no issues having everything humming and working 100% for all the 2in1s ect. As I have been saying MS seems to not be looking any further then tomorrow all the time for more then a few years now... they need to start looking a little bit further ahead. In 10 years its going to be evil google we'll all be arguing about... and our kids aren't even going to remember who MS was.

 

[tetris42]

1) gaming is moving away from windows... which is why MS trying to force developers onto W10 and DX12 just seems like a bad choice as well. It worked for them in the past so they are still acting like they have the clout to do that. Frankly I don't think they do. So far the only DX12 games really announced are all from developers that are owned or at least partially owned by MS. The truth is most of the biggest developers are more worried about mobile and making sure games can be easily coded to work on platforms other then desktops. I know talking mobile games seems crazy when we are talking about PC gaming... the simple fact however is in the next 1-3 years there is going to be a huge install base of phones that have GPU horsepower pretty much on par with the current generation PS4/Xbox... but they will be running ios and Android not windows. Meaning Vulkan and Metal are more important then DX for the future. A few years back the entire industry targeted the consoles, and we ended up with 14 years of DX9 games (I couldn't believe its been 14 years either but it has been).

Whoa, lot to address there:

1. PC gaming sure as hell isn't moving away from Windows. I'd of course LOVE it to, but that's not the same as it actually happening. Gaming on Linux is receiving more support than it ever has, but that still doesn't say much. About 20% of Steam games run on Linux and Linux constitutes less than 1% of Steam users. That's not "moving away" to me. Just because Vulkan will also run on Linux doesn't mean Windows won't remain the lead skew. Now whether DX12 is going to flop compared to Vulkan is another matter entirely, but that's not the same thing as the platform. I'll play prophet and say in the next 5-10 years, if you want to play all the AAA games with great graphics on the PC, you're going to be running Windows. By all means, show me evidence to the contrary, but I think your logic is lacking.

2. Mobile gaming and AAA / full experience gaming are not all the same market. Somebody who wants to play the next Dark Souls or Assassin's Creed isn't going to be just as satisfied playing Candy Crush. While I think some shrinking of the AAA market is likely (due to enormous costs associated with them nowadays), mobile games aren't going to REPLACE them. A good analogy to this would be all the articles you read a couple years ago about how tablets were going to replace PCs. Almost an identical situation.

3. We didn't have DirectX 9 for 14 years because of consoles, most of them didn't even use that. We had it because MS tied DirectX 10 to Vista, which mildly bombed. We had to wait until Windows 7 had enough organic marketshare to make it worthwhile for developers to make games that REQUIRED more than DX9. That took about 9 years.

4. There are other studios releasing DX12 games (ashes of the singularity, warhammer total war, deus ex mankind divided, etc.), though MS studios are the only one REQUIRING it. Again, I'm not necessarily optimistic on DX12's future, but that's a totally separate issue than "gaming moving away from windows"

 

[tetris42]

I'm sorry the last 10 years of PC games has been utter junk... sure there has been some classics for sure lots of games I love. The vast majority though have been terrible console ports.

To me, this line just screams ignorance. I think you may not realize just how many games come out for the PC. Yes, many of them are crappy console ports, but with crowdfunding and more avenues for smaller developers, the last few years has simply exploded on the PC. There are great games, crappy games and everything in between, it's honestly overwhelming. Here, pick a genre you like and look at a release list from 2015 to get an idea:

PC Games Of 2015: Those Wot Could Conceivably Be Good

There's easily over 400 games on that list, and these are the ones that look promising, it's largely omitting the shovelware / casual stuff. If anything, the biggest problem on the PC side is being able to filter out the crap from the good stuff, since you'll have almost thousands of titles releasing each year. Most of it is junk, but then that still leaves hundreds of good titles.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

Why

MS is in the business to make profit, not because they are the world biggest philanthropist.

 

[ChadD]

Whoa, lot to address there:

1. PC gaming sure as hell isn't moving away from Windows. I'd of course LOVE it to, but that's not the same as it actually happening. Gaming on Linux is receiving more support than it ever has, but that still doesn't say much. About 20% of Steam games run on Linux and Linux constitutes less than 1% of Steam users. That's not "moving away" to me. Just because Vulkan will also run on Linux doesn't mean Windows won't remain the lead skew. Now whether DX12 is going to flop compared to Vulkan is another matter entirely, but that's not the same thing as the platform. I'll play prophet and say in the next 5-10 years, if you want to play all the AAA games with great graphics on the PC, you're going to be running Windows. By all means, show me evidence to the contrary, but I think your logic is lacking.

2. Mobile gaming and AAA / full experience gaming are not all the same market. Somebody who wants to play the next Dark Souls or Assassin's Creed isn't going to be just as satisfied playing Candy Crush. While I think some shrinking of the AAA market is likely (due to enormous costs associated with them nowadays), mobile games aren't going to REPLACE them. A good analogy to this would be all the articles you read a couple years ago about how tablets were going to replace PCs. Almost an identical situation.

3. We didn't have DirectX 9 for 14 years because of consoles, most of them didn't even use that. We had it because MS tied DirectX 10 to Vista, which mildly bombed. We had to wait until Windows 7 had enough organic marketshare to make it worthwhile for developers to make games that REQUIRED more than DX9. That took about 9 years.

4. There are other studios releasing DX12 games (ashes of the singularity, warhammer total war, deus ex mankind divided, etc.), though MS studios are the only one REQUIRING it. Again, I'm not necessarily optimistic on DX12's future, but that's a totally separate issue than "gaming moving away from windows"

1... your right there is no way to say for sure. Windows has been the only option for a long time, it may or may not change. I wouldn't take it for granted that it won't or couldn't. Many of the windows boosters sound exactly like MS. Everyone runs windows so its the only option. Desktop computing has been taking a pounding in general the last few years so I don't think we can take anything for granted. MS does seem to assume everything will stay windows for ever in regards to gaming. I don't believe that is the case if they continue to to things the way they have been.

2... don't get me wrong I'm not saying new games around will be candy crush clones. I simply said more and more games will be shipping PS4/Xbox/Windows/Android/iOS the hardware on the mobile end of things isn't the joke it once was. Hardware shipping next year is going to have zero issues running the same gaming engines being used on PS4/Xbox right now. So its only logical publishers are going to try and capture both with the same development costs. Of course there will always be the outliers, the dooms and civs and other PC PC games, I think its pretty safe to assume that all the shovelware we have been hit with the last 10 years with console ports is going to start being in the form of games aimed at multiple platforms.

3... I would disagree I would blame 14 years of DX9 mostly on consoles. With the longer development cycles of games, I don't think anyone was to willing to spent a ton of money working on an API they where worried would give them issues hitting as many platforms as possible when they launched DX 9 was the safe road if you where the publisher betting your money. However you have a point about W7... and it is odd seeing MS make the same mistake, because of course it was a factor as well.

4... I again disagree a bit. The API IS the platform. PS4 and Xbox are a good example... One runs windows one runs Unix. Compiling games or any software for BSD or Linux or W32 has very little effect on performance frankly. There just isn't really that big a difference in terms of performance and its really not a lots of work. The only time there are issues is when something uses tons of proprietary lib calls, other wise running some C code through a compiler isn't a big deal. Where things differ for the PS4/Xbox is the API... people have attributed the PS4s speed advantage to its faster Memory, the truth is GNMX is far superior to any version of DX. (Its why many game developers work with GNMX first and then convert things to DX, GNMX was doing bare metal long before the marketing push for DX12).
I am not saying Vulkan is some Linux savior or MS killer or something... not at all. I think the industry has just had enough at this point with MS trying to control an entire industry.
This is another part of the puzzle and why I can't believe MS is so short sighted. The entire software industry has been going mobile for a few years now... more and more they purposely code even Windows software with out using MS proprietary libs as much as possible to make things easier to port to iOS/Android/OSx, sure they may not be thinking Linux. The work of moving the code to use open standard stuff as often as possible though makes it easier and easier to side step MS.

So I guess what I am getting at... is sure the majority of games today are still shipping for Windows and mostly Windows only. However the code bases are more and more ready to leave. Anyone working on a game right now using the unreal, source, crytech or unity engines (or almost any of the other major ones) can easily compile for any number of systems, with some of the majors they don't even have to commit to a single Graphics API there isn't a lot of work involved in taking an Unreal project and compiling it with Vulkan or Metal or GNMX. It seems to me everyone knows this but MS... they still seem to act like its 1999 and they have 99.9% of every device on the planet. As of June OSX is in fact close to 10% of the market now, and linux is up around 5-6%(depends on whos numbers you go by as many of them gather linux data which almost always means Ubuntu they also collect"other" data which is undoubtedly linux or unix systems) MS should honestly be concerned that they only have 2x as many people on Windows 10 as Apple on has OSx considering they are getting to the end of their "Free" upgrade.

 

[michalrz]

Thanks for the detailed answer.

1) gaming is moving away from windows... which is why MS trying to force developers onto W10 and DX12 just seems like a bad choice as well. It worked for them in the past so they are still acting like they have the clout to do that. Frankly I don't think they do. So far the only DX12 games really announced are all from developers that are owned or at least partially owned by MS. The truth is most of the biggest developers are more worried about mobile and making sure games can be easily coded to work on platforms other then desktops. I know talking mobile games seems crazy when we are talking about PC gaming... the simple fact however is in the next 1-3 years there is going to be a huge install base of phones that have GPU horsepower pretty much on par with the current generation PS4/Xbox... but they will be running ios and Android not windows. Meaning Vulkan and Metal are more important then DX for the future. A few years back the entire industry targeted the consoles, and we ended up with 14 years of DX9 games (I couldn't believe its been 14 years either but it has been).

That's one of the things I don't understand. If 10 is supposed to be a rolling release, and sort of a Grand Unifying Theo... emm System, with a hefty long predicted life cycle (until 2025), then I would like to believe this is not a game of stepping stones but entering new niches. This was often said by people in the know on here.
Especially considering the little legalese bit below the lifecycle sheet -

Updates are cumulative, with each update built upon all of the updates that preceded it. A device needs to install the latest update to remain supported. Updates may include new features, fixes (security and/or non-security), or a combination of both.

Nothing there about removing features, so if Vulkan and DX12 are already here, games ought to be made for this platform just like they are made for consoles. Heck, I read (haven't tested myself) that Xbox games should work on a Win10 PC, which is pretty awesome.
Also, I wouldn't want to play an RTS or an immersive FPS on a mobile device _unless_ they (MS, Google, others) manage to maintain a level of openness that will allow any input, display and sound device to "just work" with any mobile device.
Speaking from my own experience, based on what I have seen, the 14 year hiatus in DX progression was more due to the weird "success" of XP and the initial flop of Vista's device support. At least that's how I saw it.

2) If you plunk pretty much anyone who uses office every day down in front of a computer with a copy of Lib Office on it... they are fine. I have never heard a convincing argument from anyone as to how Office is in fact any better. For every silly little used feature they point out, I can find something just as useful in Lib Office that doesn't exist in MS Office.

I agree with that. Especially considering Libre has a more simple looking interface and - in the case of my users - they can find their favourite features easier than in the Ribbon.
I have installed Libre on a few unsuspecting users at work to see what will happen, but, alas, they were able to type a document
Yes, in the case of most home users, and even in my "gubment" environment people could get away with friggin Wordpad.exe. Also, ODT is pretty much official and valid for any legal work in PL. But the issue is being compatible with everyone else. In my world, people use MS Word, as old as 2003. They once bought it and they don't understand why they'd need a new one. They use like 3% of Word's features.
But when I prepared a form in Libre, save it as ODT/Doc/Docx, posted it up on our webpabe for regular people to download and fill out, I got flak from both my people and clients because of little formatting differences that sometimes pop up when you attempt to use both software suites concurrently on a given file.

3) Forget training... there are millions of people out there who know the ins and outs of Android at this point... and yes it isn't exactly linux, but it is. (and MS should be worried that at some point Google will make it official and ship Android desktop) Again give those people a machine running one of the user friendly Linux GUIs and they are right at home. Frankly take someone that has been using Windows 7, they will be more at home with Cinnamon, KDE, or Mate then Windows 10. Folks are training themselves and Linux really isn't all that different... Chrome Firefox aren't any different, Email programs like Thunderbird are again exactly the same. This isn't 1999 there isn't any more reason to use a Linux command line then there is to use Windows Powershell, nice to have but not required to fire it up and edit Documents, send emails and use web based databases.

As for programmers believe it or not... much of the "Windows" software your using was written by someone not running Windows.

The switch to a non windows world really is getting less and less an issue all the time... and MS isn't really helping themselves. I would say its a good time to sell my MS stock... but heck I got rid of mine thankfully before they bought Nokia.

My friend, who is legally almost blind, uses Android on his desktop. He's versed in Windows and Linux, but uses Android solely because he claims it's THE easiest for him to use accesibility wise. So I too could see that become prevalent.
But I can't 100% agree on the training bit... the people I work for are very task oriented and usually develop just one way to do something. They once learned that you double click on an icon to "do stuff", and behold, they now double click web links and icons on the taskbar. I try to explain to them that they won't break anything if they try to explore their work environment a bit more, but they often refuse to do so. They want to get their stuff done and they dislike frequent changes. Examples of things that caused my phone to become DDOSed by angry caffeinated users:
- the ribbon in Word
- hiding the status bar, bookmarks bar and menu bar in Firefox

I agree the above are not total dealbreakers. In the face of 7 becoming problematic in maintanence in a few years, and ultimately its EOL, going Free is doable.
If I will be able to explain to my handlers that we could make some savings on licenses and that 10 can't meet data protection requirements then I probably will receive the green light to overthrow the existing order. Luckily I can and know how.

 

[ChadD]

My friend, who is legally almost blind, uses Android on his desktop. He's versed in Windows and Linux, but uses Android solely because he claims it's THE easiest for him to use accesibility wise. So I too could see that become prevalent.
But I can't 100% agree on the training bit... the people I work for are very task oriented and usually develop just one way to do something. They once learned that you double click on an icon to "do stuff", and behold, they now double click web links and icons on the taskbar. I try to explain to them that they won't break anything if they try to explore their work environment a bit more, but they often refuse to do so. They want to get their stuff done and they dislike frequent changes. Examples of things that caused my phone to become DDOSed by angry caffeinated users:
- the ribbon in Word
- hiding the status bar, bookmarks bar and menu bar in Firefox

I agree the above are not total dealbreakers. In the face of 7 becoming problematic in maintanence in a few years, and ultimately its EOL, going Free is doable.
If I will be able to explain to my handlers that we could make some savings on licenses and that 10 can't meet data protection requirements then I probably will receive the green light to overthrow the existing order. Luckily I can and know how.

I agree with almost everything you said. I know lib office docx doesn't always play well with every single version of office... which has 100% of course to do with MS and their constant slight changes to the stupid format. (cause the same issues happen when you use different versions of office as well). It would be nice if MS stopped trying to screw over their competition by constantly changing things for no other reason then to ensure their software is always the only one doing it "right".

The training story did make me laugh.. yes I have ran into those same types of folks. There are issues transitioning work places to Linux no doubt. There is that old school factor of employees that have worked on nothing but Windows for years now. Those people are becoming fewer and fewer now I find though, even the most die hard computer stupid people are starting to get smart phones. If they are finding their way around ios, and android more so, the transition from windows to linux isn't a big deal. (if where talking properly administered work machines.) Frankly if you give them a XFCE desktop... and replace a wisker menu icon with a Windows icon (don't tell MS though). I would bet you money that 90% of the people you sit down in front of it and tell them to Open Chrome or Firefox and work on their companies Web Based Database systems. It would take them a few weeks to figure out there machines aren't running Windows. (I setup a friends small shop awhile back with 3 machines... the version I put on his 2 machines being used by employees I locked down a XFCE setup that looked almost exactly like windows... his employees didn't say anything about it, they only noticed when he asked them how things where going a few days later)

 

[pothb]

To be fair, 2007's ribbon was terrible. From 2010, it was better.

As for the status, bar, I personally like having it there myself. Always hated the idea of hiding it. Always makes me think that it's hiding the background crap that might be fucking with my computer.

 

[tetris42]

Desktop computing has been taking a pounding in general the last few years so I don't think we can take anything for granted. MS does seem to assume everything will stay windows for ever in regards to gaming. I don't believe that is the case if they continue to to things the way they have been

Something to keep in mind is that even while PC sales were falling, PC GAMING hardware sales continued to go up and are stronger than ever. If you look at trends from the past 5 years, PC gaming on the desktop is only getting stronger. Again, I would love to see MS dethroned, but I'm simply not seeing enough right now to make it happen. If there was a heavy incentive for the industry to abandon Windows I could see it happen, but I don't think it's there.

3... I would disagree I would blame 14 years of DX9 mostly on consoles. With the longer development cycles of games, I don't think anyone was to willing to spent a ton of money working on an API they where worried would give them issues hitting as many platforms as possible when they launched DX 9 was the safe road if you where the publisher betting your money. However you have a point about W7... and it is odd seeing MS make the same mistake, because of course it was a factor as well.

The thing is, when DirectX 9 came out, it ran on Windows 98 also, we had mainstream games REQUIRING DirectX 9 out about a year later. DirectX 10 tied it to Vista and XP had a long lifespan. Developers didn't want to develop for it because they would be losing a huge chunk of their market. If you really think it was all the consoles, explain this then:

-Why didn't we see PC exclusives during that time REQUIRE DirectX 10? Stuff like Crysis, Arma 2, Shogun 2, etc. I think it's obvious that it's because too many people were still on XP and developers didn't want to lose sales. Consoles shouldn't have had any bearing on these titles, these were games with new engines developed solely for PC. If you think it was consoles keeping DX9 active, then these should have been DX10 exclusives, but they weren't.

-Again, if consoles were the culprit, why did we finally start to see PC games REQUIRE DX11 in 2012? Assassin's Creed 3, Sleeping Dogs, etc. Again, I think it's because it was finally "safe" to use it because enough of the PC gaming market was using Vista or later, so they wouldn't miss out on too many sales.

I'm not saying consoles didn't hold back PC gaming in other ways, but I don't think DX9 was one of them. Tying the DirectX version to the OS is what did it. If DirectX 10 had worked on XP, I think we would have had games REQUIRING it in 2007.

So I guess what I am getting at... is sure the majority of games today are still shipping for Windows and mostly Windows only. However the code bases are more and more ready to leave. Anyone working on a game right now using the unreal, source, crytech or unity engines (or almost any of the other major ones) can easily compile for any number of systems, with some of the majors they don't even have to commit to a single Graphics API there isn't a lot of work involved in taking an Unreal project and compiling it with Vulkan or Metal or GNMX. It seems to me everyone knows this but MS... they still seem to act like its 1999 and they have 99.9% of every device on the planet.

As of June OSX is in fact close to 10% of the market now, and linux is up around 5-6%(depends on whos numbers you go by as many of them gather linux data which almost always means Ubuntu they also collect"other" data which is undoubtedly linux or unix systems) MS should honestly be concerned that they only have 2x as many people on Windows 10 as Apple on has OSx considering they are getting to the end of their "Free" upgrade.

Well granted, Steam doesn't cover everything, but it's a good metric to get an idea of how people are gaming and right now, Windows covers 95.5% of OS use for Steam gaming. Those are monopoly numbers, pure and simple.

I get what you're saying, but my point is I don't see how this path is going to evolve. Sure, I could see some principled or smaller developers supporting linux, but giants like EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc., paint me a picture where they start supporting Linux. I'm looking at this from management's perspective. The number of linux gamers is inconsequential, so it's simply not worth their time and money to port the game over to linux, no matter how easy it is. The extra support alone might offset the sales numbers for them. So they're going to keep developing for release on Windows, where the market is. This doesn't mean they'll be using DX12, since again, they'll want to be able to easily port over the games from console to PC, etc. so the more portable the code is, the better, but for PC gaming, it's still Windows. So help me out, what's the INCENTIVE for a project manager at EA to start releasing games on Linux? If it's not there yet, what will happen to make them want to?

 

[ChadD]

I'm not saying consoles didn't hold back PC gaming in other ways, but I don't think DX9 was one of them. Tying the DirectX version to the OS is what did it. If DirectX 10 had worked on XP, I think we would have had games REQUIRING it in 2007.

Well granted, Steam doesn't cover everything, but it's a good metric to get an idea of how people are gaming and right now, Windows covers 95.5% of OS use for Steam gaming. Those are monopoly numbers, pure and simple.

So help me out, what's the INCENTIVE for a project manager at EA to start releasing games on Linux? If it's not there yet, what will happen to make them want to?

Because they tied DX versions to windows its easy to point only at that. Had they not done that 100% consoles would have still held things up. As you say the developers wanted to hit as many customers as possible and not loose out on one sale. They where hardly going to support a new version of an API that the current console base couldn't use. Behind the scenes I am sure they also had MS not wanting them to expose the issues with their consoles API vs Sonys. (Sonys API did everything DX 11 did long before DX11 got any use)

Frankly the EAs of the world are not likely ever going to support Linux. Its too open and none of the DRM loving Publishers are fans of such systems. No what MS should be watching out for is the day Google steps in and releases a "google" os that is simply a walled up version of Linux. When that happens companies like EA and all the others are all ready to leave Windows right now. The hard work in the coding is already done. Heck every game that runs on PS4 right now is running on a FreeBSD kernal never mind linux. If MS keeps doing stupid things like creating big holes in juicy markets as they have with this change they are just daring Google to release "Android" for Desktop... and I have no doubt Google right now could do to windows exactly what they did to IE. MS should be worried about that and if they aren't their internal reality distortion field must be cranked to 11.

 

[Ryun]

You won't have a choice. I thought once it came out of insiders it was released into the wild.

Meanwhile it sure has been quiet on the "shill" side.


edit
Home users get 4 months deferment if your local draft board approves it.
How to prevent Windows 10 from installing the Anniversary Update • Pureinfotech

You do have a choice with Pro. There's a group policy setting to control when windows updates are installed (don't remember the name). I have it setup to notify me of updates but I choose when to download and install.


*EDIT* It's in Computer Configuration -> Windows Components -> Windows Update -> Configure Automatic Updates

It's all or nothing with the UI but I can use that Windows Update tool to hide updates if I don't want one

If that somehow fails or I screw up I've got regular backups to restore from on my server.

 

[Ryun]

It wan't completely free. You wouldn't have needed nor given up your previous Windows license to get W10.

I may be misreading this but are you suggesting that your previous license for windows that you used to upgrade to 10 is invalidated or just that you can't run both at the same time?

Just wanted to point out to others that the former is definitely not true if that's what you meant. But apologies if I'm misinterpreting as the latter is correct.

 

[Jim Kim]

You do have a choice with Pro. There's a group policy setting to control when windows updates are installed (don't remember the name). I have it setup to notify me of updates but I choose when to download and install.

It's all or nothing with the UI but I can use that Windows Update tool to hide updates if I don't want one

If that somehow fails or I screw up I've got regular backups to restore from on my server.

This thread is about Microsoft removing features from 10 Pro that were previously in 10 Pro. Don't want the Celebratory version of W10, too bad because all previous versions of 10 will no longer get security updates. They already did that with Windows 8 but had to retract it. This is Microsoft we are dealing with, if you think you have control over your computer because you have Pro, this article just proved that you don't. They don't care how many backups, clones and images you made on your server or in the cloud. You installed 10, now they own you. Simple as that.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

I may be misreading this but are you suggesting that your previous license for windows that you used to upgrade to 10 is invalidated or just that you can't run both at the same time?

Just wanted to point out to others that the former is definitely not true if that's what you meant. But apologies if I'm misinterpreting as the latter is correct.

From a technical and somewhat moral perspective I suppose, if you did take advantage of the free upgrade to Windows 10 offer from Windows 7/8/8.1 you're not supposed to continue using the previous licensed product after 30 days. You have 30 days to roll back to the previous product (which is supposed to mean the Windows 10 license should be invalidated in that process as well but it isn't). It's an honor thing more than most anything else: if you took advantage of the free upgrade to Windows 10, you're not supposed to use the previous product anymore, period. If you do then you're breaking the licensing terms, you naughty boys/girls.

Microsoft isn't going to put that much time and effort into policing such activities but from a purely technical standpoint it can be done:

Every time someone accesses Windows Update their activation hash is provided which is course directly tied to the original Product Key of the given activated installation of whatever OS is attempting to get updates. It's not like it would be hard to add some code that says:

- if the activation data shows a legit non-surrendered license in use, allow access to the updates
- if the activation data shows a legit but surrendered license is still in use > 30 days after it was surrendered then deactivate the license (silently) and disallow Windows Updates (may provide a reason or not to the end user)
- if the activation data shows a legit digital entitlement license in use > 30 days and if no updates have been attempted on a legit but surrendered license tied to the same hardware, allow access to the updates

That pretty much covers the licensing issues with just those three steps: the first one covers basic non-surrendered aka upgraded licenses, the second one covers licenses that have been surrendered for the purpose of getting Windows 10 for free, and the third covers Windows 10 licenses that are used in a regular sense and the license used to get the free upgrade hasn't been used to attempt to get Windows Updates.

Technically if you a) used Windows 7/8/8.1 to upgrade to 10 and b) you continue to use that product even after you got Windows 10 at no charge but at a later time you did choose to start using Windows 10 at the same time on the same hardware like in a dual boot situation, Microsoft is within their rights to deactivate both licenses but I doubt they'll ever go anywhere this - I'm just saying they technically can and are legally OK to do so since you'd be breaking not one but two licenses: you're using a product you surrendered that license for (the 7/8/8.1 license to get Windows 10 for free) and you've decided to continue using whatever license in addition to using Windows 10 (if you go past that 30 day period for either).

Of course, doing this would create a massive PR shitstorm for Microsoft but technically and legally based on the product licensing they are entirely within their rights to do this if they want and end users can't really say Jack Shit about it.

 

[westrock2000]

So does Bill Gates.

He also invests in privatized prisons, but that doesn't necessarily make it right.

 

[ZenDragon]

I would usually be one of the first to defend the move to 10. As an IT professional and programmer on the MS platform for 16+ years, I feel windows 10 it was the first major improvement to the ecosystem as a whole since windows 2000 more or less replaced windows 98. Granted this doesn't much affect my work as we mainly use enterprise versions, all of my personal machines run Pro. I have found the pre-installed app/link situation overall to be quite annoying but as there was a work around not a huge deal breaker for me. Basically what this seems to be as others have mentioned a forced shill, companies paying for placement in the start menu. If they indeed want to follow through with this they will be making a lot of enemies of the friends they only recently made.

 

[Jim Kim]

He also invests in privatized prisons, but that doesn't necessarily make it right.

That would make it America's fault for having the highest incarceration rate in the world. But the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation more than makes up for his use of a mac.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

Uninstalled and rolled back to 7 after this. I was fine with Win 10 so long as I had control over things. I defended against the onslaught of morons who constantly railed against things that at that time, weren't true. However that tolerance of Win 10 just instantly went out the window the second they tried to take away my ability to turn the shit off I don't want. I don't mind home edition being restricted, home edition isn't the version anyone who knows what they are doing use. However I like many others own Pro for very obvious reasons.

So Fuck off Ms, I'll keep Win 7 Ultimate on my machine thanks.

 

[Jim Kim]

Uninstalled and rolled back to 7 after this. I was fine with Win 10 so long as I had control over things. I defended against the onslaught of morons who constantly railed against things that at that time, weren't true. However that tolerance of Win 10 just instantly went out the window the second they tried to take away my ability to turn the shit off I don't want. I don't mind home edition being restricted, home edition isn't the version anyone who knows what they are doing use. However I like many others own Pro for very obvious reasons.

So Fuck off Ms, I'll keep Win 7 Ultimate on my machine thanks.

We don't seem so wrong now
It's ok, you can say, "Morons FTW"

 

[RazorWind]

Please. No one but the nerd rage nerds (me included) that visit forums like this give a fuck.

I'm so fucking pissed about this...especially after the fucktards in the OS forum jumped my nuts for not bending over and taking this shit.

Is this a feature you actually use? I can understand being upset about it in principle, but in reality, I don't see it affecting me, and I typed this post on a Win10 Pro machine.

If you read the original post, it talks about how this applies to only the "Pro" version, whereas "Enterprise" and "Education" versions are left alone. That being the case, it seems to me they probably figure that the majority of "Pro" users don't ever customize the group policy anyway, and those that do would be better served with the "Enterprise" version.

The thing that would really bother me, if I worked in an IT role that was responsible for this, is if they changed what all the different group policy features do, so I had to go back and look at all of them to make sure they didn't screw something up. That would annoy me intensely.

 

[cdr_74_premium]

I don't care about any of those yet I don't see why taking things away would be OK for any reason, especially in a bait & switch scenario.

 

[pothb]

Uninstalled and rolled back to 7 after this. I was fine with Win 10 so long as I had control over things. I defended against the onslaught of morons who constantly railed against things that at that time, weren't true. However that tolerance of Win 10 just instantly went out the window the second they tried to take away my ability to turn the shit off I don't want. I don't mind home edition being restricted, home edition isn't the version anyone who knows what they are doing use. However I like many others own Pro for very obvious reasons.

So Fuck off Ms, I'll keep Win 7 Ultimate on my machine thanks.

That's a weird way of judging.... I mean, who would say no to a copy of a window's license, that comes with a computer?

 

[DrLobotomy]

MS wants Pro out of the enterprise.

 

[westrock2000]

The cortana thing does chap my ass though, the search bar is so powerful in Windows. Cluttering it up is annoying. Especially with simple stuff like "calculator", it's like ok which of these do I NOT click?

 

[Dekoth-E-]

That's a weird way of judging.... I mean, who would say no to a copy of a window's license, that comes with a computer?

The point was that if you know what you are doing and require certain features as a result, you are going to pay to upgrade to Pro. Me referring to home edition as moron edition doesn't mean everyone on home is a moron. I have home edition on my laptop as I don't need it to do anything special. I simply refer to home edition as moron edition as that is the version that will be the default for the average user and the average user is a moron.

Too many years doing It service and support.

Anyhow this news is a real shame. I tried to give MS the benefit of the doubt and as long as I didn't have to have features forced on me I was willing to tolerate the small nuisances in Win 10. Overall it wasn't a bad experience, it ran well and I have few complaints about it during the window I used it. Apparently the idiot brigade at MS broke out of their cells and somehow got in charge again. It is a pity really, Win 10 had the chance of becoming a really nice OS had it not been handicapped with stupid decisions.

 

[Frobozz]

<snip>

If you read the original post, it talks about how this applies to only the "Pro" version, whereas "Enterprise" and "Education" versions are left alone. That being the case, it seems to me they probably figure that the majority of "Pro" users don't ever customize the group policy anyway, and those that do would be better served with the "Enterprise" version.
</snip>

I think that's what the push is. I think it's common in the small business segment to just get a machine preinstalled with Pro, join it to the domain, and get to work. Now those machines will not be able to comply with corporate policy.. soo.. they can now bring them back into compliance by buying a $7/mo/seat subscription to Enterprise.
whatcha think?

 

[ManofGod]

This thread is about Microsoft removing features from 10 Pro that were previously in 10 Pro. Don't want the Celebratory version of W10, too bad because all previous versions of 10 will no longer get security updates. They already did that with Windows 8 but had to retract it. This is Microsoft we are dealing with, if you think you have control over your computer because you have Pro, this article just proved that you don't. They don't care how many backups, clones and images you made on your server or in the cloud. You installed 10, now they own you. Simple as that.

The guy specifically responded to a point you had attempted to make. Moving the goal posts around does not make what he said any less relevant. In fact, I appreciate that I now know something I did not before, thanks Ryun.

 

[Jim Kim]

The guy specifically responded to a point you had attempted to make. Moving the goal posts around does not make what he said any less relevant. In fact, I appreciate that I now know something I did not before, thanks Ryun.

Agreed, that is good information to know. But it's Microsoft who is not only moving the goal posts but changing the game in the process.

 

[PontiacGTX]

if anniversary edition doesnt bring any improvement to the system performance. then just disable updates.
also some changes from GPedit can be done in windows registry, and I think in windows 10 there was a 3rd party Gpedit installer