Microsoft Quietly Cuts Off Windows 7 Support for Older Intel Computers

[auntjemima]

For everyone saying Windows 10 is just like any other upgrade, everyone is just whining, you're either ignorant of how different 10 is from any other version of Windows, you've drank the kool aid, or are so simple you can't envision a scenario where their design change is a really, really bad idea.

I'm dreading Windows 10 for one reason: mandatory automatic updates. This means I'm not in control of my system. If MS decides to push an update that breaks software I use in the middle of a project, that's it, I'm fucked. I've already seen updates on Windows 7 break things, this isn't some hypothetical scenario. At least on 7 I can skip anything problematic. That control is gone. Unless you're using Enterprise, LTSB, or something else hacked together, you're no longer control your system. Now granted, 99% of the time that's probably not going to cause a problem. If you're unlucky enough to get hit when it does though, again, you're fucked. I rely on my computer for my job. The thought of any of my software working one day then not working the next for any reason that's not hardware failure is completely unacceptable to me, even if it's less than a 1% chance. To remove that control from the user completely is beyond asinine in my eyes. If all you do is browse the web, send emails, and use software that's actively supported, I'm sure Windows 10 is great for you. If you do anything where you lose money if your computer isn't running your software exactly the same as it was the day before, it's a nightmare to even think about.

But sure, try to falsely equivocate this with just "being afraid of change." It's obscene how willing people who should know better are to give up control of their own systems.

Tell me one thing in your life that is a 100% guarantee. "Less than 1%" is a pretty amazing chance.

^ This. So much this. I recall when it was normal to build and tweak a 'personal computer' - it was about personal choice and control.

I depend on my Win7 boxes for work - tweaked to suit particular specialty tasks. When I dived into the Win10 Early Idiot Adopter program, an update borked a machine - I lost time and money. Did M$ recoup my lost income? No, they did not. Will I give M$ another chance? No I will not.

All but one Win7 box are offline. When 2020 rolls in, the only only internet connected box in the office will be running Linux.

Do you mean you joined the early access Beta, or that you upgraded as soon as it was offered?

If it's the first, you have no foot to stand on.

 

[tetris42]

Tell me one thing in your life that is a 100% guarantee. "Less than 1%" is a pretty amazing chance.

Less than 1% doesn't mean so much when there are hundreds of updates a year. Again, the fact that I've seen updates from MS actively screw up something I use (that they never remedied) does not inspire confidence for 10. I don't get this blind trust in updates people have. Have people in this forum never had a problematic graphics card update or something?

There's a difference between not being able to guarantee something due to a freak chance of something happening v. actively doing something that leads to increased odds of something screwing up. I'm amazed I have to explain this concept to people, but here's an analogy:

Can I guarantee I won't get shot in the head? No, I could catch a stray bullet from an accident, get mugged, etc., but my odds are really low and I can control my risk as much as humanely possible. Do my odds go up if I play Russian Roulette with a friend who "swears he only uses blanks"? Yes, they go way up, even if 99% the time no one gets hurt. Even though I can't "guarantee" I won't be shot in the head in either scenario, I DO have control over determining if someone is regularly pointing a gun at my head or not.

Besides, the problem is two-fold. The first problem is having no control as to whether I get a bad update or not. The second problem is having no recourse if I do. In Windows 7, if I get a bad update, I uninstall it, restore my computer to a previous image, then just skip that update in the future. On Windows 10, I have no options, unless I never connect to the internet again I suppose. If Windows 7 pushes a bad update on me, I'm inconvenienced. If Windows 10 pushes a bad update on me, I'm fucked.

And yes, I can 100% guarantee Microsoft won't push a bad update on me in Windows 7 without me giving it permission first.

 

[trparky]

I'm dreading Windows 10 for one reason: mandatory automatic updates. This means I'm not in control of my system. If MS decides to push an update that breaks software I use in the middle of a project, that's it, I'm fucked. I've already seen updates on Windows 7 break things,

Funny, I've never had an issue at all with Windows Updates on several of my machines. Not a single one have gone wrong. And I've got a variety of hardware here all with wildly different ages as well including one HP notebook with an old Core i7 Q720, a Dell notebook with a Core i5 3337U, an HP notebook with a Core i7 2670QM, a desktop with a Core i5 3570K, and a new desktop with a Core i7 8700K. None of them have had any issues with Windows Updates over the years.

 

[Meeho]

Funny, I've never had an issue at all with Windows Updates on several of my machines.

Well, if YOU never had a problem, case closed.

 

[trparky]

Well when you get decent hardware you tend to not have problems. If you get cheap stuff, expect issues. I tend to build my systems from premium hardware.

 

[tetris42]

Funny, I've never had an issue at all with Windows Updates on several of my machines. Not a single one have gone wrong. And I've got a variety of hardware here all with wildly different ages as well including one HP notebook with an old Core i7 Q720, a Dell notebook with a Core i5 3337U, an HP notebook with a Core i7 2670QM, a desktop with a Core i5 3570K, and a new desktop with a Core i7 8700K. None of them have had any issues with Windows Updates over the years.

I believe you, though I'm guessing you probably use a smaller range of software than I do, since I literally have over 100 programs or so I use when installing on a new system. Regardless, that's besides the point. The point is what would your recourse be if you DID have a problem caused by an update?

 

[SvenBent]

My only issue with Windows 10 is how redundant it is to do simple shit that takes 2-8 more steps than it did in Window 7. Like, ya know, Safe Mode. Making basic system changes in Control Panel...It's so heavy handed now.

So much this. Evne the freaking calculator now takes extra steps to do the caluclation/converting I do mostly.

 

[Todd Walter]

So much this. Evne the freaking calculator now takes extra steps to do the caluclation/converting I do mostly.

The wildly inconsistent VPN access is also annoying. Some PCs can initiate the connection from the system tray and others, like mine, make me jump into the fucking metro panel to do so. Then it's a 50/50 shot that it routes correctly.

 

[heatlesssun]

So much this. Evne the freaking calculator now takes extra steps to do the caluclation/converting I do mostly.

You can still install the old calculator: https://winaero.com/blog/get-calculator-from-windows-8-and-windows-7-in-windows-10/. Winaero is trustworthy, been using their tools and hacks for years now, I used this to install the old calculator years ago just to test it out, works fine. There are a number of calculators in the Store, some pretty good ones there with all kinds of features.

 

[heatlesssun]

I believe you, though I'm guessing you probably use a smaller range of software than I do, since I literally have over 100 programs or so I use when installing on a new system. Regardless, that's besides the point. The point is what would your recourse be if you DID have a problem caused by an update?

I have around 400 games alone installed on my sig rig, probably about another 300 non-games across classic desktop and Store apps. Of course there's no way a person can constantly use this about of software so there might very well be some applications I have installed that aren't working. But I've not yet seen an update totally break an app, worst case I've had is a reinstall. If something critical does break due to an update the normal course of action is to rollback the update and on 10 Pro and above you can pause a monthly update for up to 35 days.

I agree the process needs to be improved with better control for more average users but we also know the history of massive malware attacks when people never update. Which the cumulative update process now, it not really possible to separate out security updates from other updates, it all tested and deployed as a single unit across the different branches. I guess what would make some happy is easy access to the LTSB but those are only getting updated once every 2 years now, so you kind of end up with the big bang delivery method of old Windows.

 

[Ranulfo]

Well when you get decent hardware you tend to not have problems. If you get cheap stuff, expect issues. I tend to build my systems from premium hardware.

Indeed and yet I've had premium hardware shit itself on windows updates. The most famous one being the update bug for win7 systems (that probably still happens every so often). It was such a joy having win update take 2-6 hours at 20% cpu power to figure out it needed no updates. I've had more update failures across the board of hardware quality/decency since win8 and 10 than ever before. Anymore it is a crap shoot as to what will get screwed up and what won't. A cheap laptop running win8 recently updated rather easily (still took 45 mins or so) several months of updates while a newer/faster refurb HP laptop that originally came with win8 but has win10 took 3 hours.

M$ quality control has gone downhill since win10 and is an utter mess.

 

[heatlesssun]

M$ quality control has gone downhill since win10 and is an utter mess.

And I guess that's the question. Windows 10 alone is running on about 700 million PCs. If one were to take any current Linux distro and install it on 700 million PCs, I certain the process would be far from clean in just getting the basics straight, never mind application support.

From an engineering perspective, what exactly would represent good quality? Obviously zero issue would be the goal but that's impossible. I do wish that Microsoft would publish data on this, all that "spyware" should be giving them some good info on quality. I just don't see how one can objectively measure this issue without tons of data from across multiple OSes. Hell, is there even any data on how well the average Linux install and update process goes?

 

[tetris42]

And I guess that's the question. Windows 10 alone is running on about 700 million PCs. If one were to take any current Linux distro and install it on 700 million PCs, I certain the process would be far from clean in just getting the basics straight, never mind application support.

From an engineering perspective, what exactly would represent good quality? Obviously zero issue would be the goal but that's impossible. I do wish that Microsoft would publish data on this, all that "spyware" should be giving them some good info on quality. I just don't see how one can objectively measure this issue without tons of data from across multiple OSes. Hell, is there even any data on how well the average Linux install and update process goes?

It's true that probably only Microsoft has access to that information. I would say MS laying off their QA department isn't the rosiest of signs however. I agree that Linux would probably come out behind in that scenario, but it wouldn't force you to take anything, moreover, you would have options to undo it if they permanently broke something that affected you.

But you make a great point. With a userbase that big, it's impossible to make it work for everyone without issues. That's why forcing all of them is so audacious.

 

[Delicieuxz]

Funny, I've never had an issue at all with Windows Updates on several of my machines. Not a single one have gone wrong. And I've got a variety of hardware here all with wildly different ages as well including one HP notebook with an old Core i7 Q720, a Dell notebook with a Core i5 3337U, an HP notebook with a Core i7 2670QM, a desktop with a Core i5 3570K, and a new desktop with a Core i7 8700K. None of them have had any issues with Windows Updates over the years.

I've had issues with Windows 10's updates. Twice, they have completely bricked my system and I had to do full clean re-installations. Watching the Windows OS forum at LTT, there have been many issues with updates to major Win 10 version, and people have had their systems bricked by them in a variety of ways.

And this happened to my Windows 10 system out of the blue, despite no updates being installed recently, and no program or settings changes recently:

In addition to the missing icons in the OS, various Windows programs no longer launch from the start menu (including Services, Control Panel, Notepad, Wordpad), and right-clicking on ( C: ) in File Explorer and clicking Properties doesn't open up the properties window.


I have no idea how to fix the problems, so I just stopped using Windows 10.


There are many, many reports of Windows Update ruining people's work or interrupting their activity due to automatically restarting the system while something was working in the background.

If you are a person who works on their PC outside of a consistent time-limited schedule, then running Windows 10 without fully disabling Windows Update is like walking through a minefield.

And if you depend upon having access to your PC when you need to, and can't risk having to re-install the OS with each major update, then disabling Windows Update is a necessity.


The QA control and system / Windows owner control simply are not there with Windows 10.

 

[deton8]

My socket 939 Opteron which is doing HTPC has windows 7 on it.

And only runs Kodi.

i'm now considering putting linux on it and going to a linux version of kodi.

Heh, fair warning, my HTPC with the same hardware is borderline useable running 16.04. Granted that's with 2Gb ram.

My main box is still running Windows 7 so when they finally pull support for the 2600K I guess I'll finally be forced to upgrade, or give up the pretense of being a PC gamer forevermore.

 

[Stanley Pain]

You do realize I have degrees in astrospace engineering and computer science and am the chief engineer of a fortune 100 company? I also designed satellites for NASA. I also worked for a Nobel prize winner in Chemistry.

I use my home computer maybe < 1 hour a week, mostly for amazon and reading tech sites. I do my development on windows 7 like most corporations do. The only real tinkering I do is with Arduino on windows 10 and that ide is anchient but effective. As I'm creating an it device for a lunch and learn I wanted to start up iis and run a webAPI service on it to talk to Arduino. Then I found out what a pain in the ass it is to find and set up under 10. Completely different then what it used to be for no freaking useful reason what so ever, just like the cpl change.

Don't make assumptions.

I have 2 PhDs and work for a fortune 50 company wanna fight?

What has changed between 7 and 10 that you find difficult or different?

WIN KEY + Type = Getting to whatever control panel item I want

WIN KEY + X = Get instant access to 99.9% of the "power user" menus.

The only really egregious changes in Windows 10 are the extra clicks required to get to Network or Sound settings for a specific device.

 

[Delicieuxz]

I have 2 PhDs and work for a fortune 50 company wanna fight?

What has changed between 7 and 10 that you find difficult or different?

WIN KEY + Type = Getting to whatever control panel item I want

WIN KEY + X = Get instant access to 99.9% of the "power user" menus.

The only really egregious changes in Windows 10 are the extra clicks required to get to Network or Sound settings for a specific device.

There are lots of egregious changes with Windows 10:

Constant spying (at the minimum data-harvesting setting Microsoft is leeching personal user data from over 3,510 data points, creating a meticulous and comprehensive picture of everything you do in the OS - and then selling that info for Microsoft's profit), in-OS ads, a lack of system / Windows owner control, automatic updates, obnoxious full-screen messages telling the Windows owner to update if they disable WU via GPE, settings and file-associations resetting, a lack of stability and reliability compared to Windows 7, tons of bloatware and interfering stuff like "Game Mode" which ironically reduces gaming performance, and other things.

Most of what's different in Windows 10 compared to Windows 7 is different for the worse.

 

[clockdogg]

I've played around with Windows 8, and it had multiple performance and functionality improvements. Guess what everyone remembers about Windows 8? The TETRIS menu interface (laughably called "Modern").



Lets see here.... you are still willing to use nVidia 2xx cards (released 2008-2009) and the AMD/ATi Radeon 5xxx HD caards (released 2009)? You do realize that nVidia discontinued driver support in April, 2016, right? Are you still rocking that 1600×1200 CRT monitor?

And, when you talk about "old world craftsmanship", are you including the fact that it took longer to build and assemble, and was intended to last decades? In comparison, I place the usable life of a computer of around 5-7 years now, and a car that I use everyday to run errands and commute to work at 10-15 years. Sure, you can restore a classic old automobile, but do you want to deal with the reduced safety.

I can see your argument about desktop computers being "tools", and I can see that aspect. Too often, I see form over function in both cars and computers. Guess what? You can modify it to fit your needs! I hate-hate-hate the Windows 10 Calculator, so guess what? There is a Windows 7 Calculator replacement. Hate the standard Notepad? I use Notepad++. Anyone recall when web development stalled because Internet Exploder had 98% of the browser market? Firefox broke the logjam, and nowadays, at least 60% of the Internet population uses Chrome.

I still cannot believe this whole Win7 vs Win10 religious war started because Microsoft elected not to fix an issue on a processor family that was discontinued in the early 2000s. What does all of this petty bickering really get you? Not much, and quite frankly....
View attachment 84022

Religious war? LOL! I'm fighting a usability and stability war. There is not a single improvement in the OS for my needs. Not one. I can get all the drivers for recent gear for Win7 - so far. I stopped supporting nVidia before they stopped supporting me. AMD GPUs work great for my OpenCL needs.

When you can verify that all the M$ spyware telemetry is disabled and will continue to be non-functional after the next update, without spending the stupid money on LTSB, then you might have a case that Win10 is a useful OS, not just an OS for mining. Data-mining.

It's my freaking hardware, not theirs. I'll decide when I want to update a functional driver with a flaky one. I paid for a bunch of licenses - I did not agree to telemetric spyware and forced updates. I don't need the pathetic apps at the M$ fake walled-garden store.

Oh, and I'd prefer to die in a fiery crash in an old analog car than drive a nanny-state touch-screen plastic box of crap.

 

[Makaveli@BETA]

Heh, fair warning, my HTPC with the same hardware is borderline useable running 16.04. Granted that's with 2Gb ram.

My main box is still running Windows 7 so when they finally pull support for the 2600K I guess I'll finally be forced to upgrade, or give up the pretense of being a PC gamer forevermore.

Thanks for the update.

That box has 4GB of DDR500 memory in it.

I may throw a small SSD in it and she how she goes.

 

[M76]

Well when you get decent hardware you tend to not have problems. If you get cheap stuff, expect issues. I tend to build my systems from premium hardware.

Yeah, because forced updates are caused by "cheap" hardware.

 

[tetris42]

And if you depend upon having access to your PC when you need to, and can't risk having to re-install the OS with each major update, then disabling Windows Update is a necessity.

Is that still all it takes though? I heard in the past that would stop all updates, but more recent versions can cause it to re-activate on its own.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

I have 2 PhDs and work for a fortune 50 company wanna fight?

Do you also only bang 10's?
And do you drive your Huracan only when your Chiron is having it's scheduled maintenance?

 

[Delicieuxz]

Is that still all it takes though? I heard in the past that would stop all updates, but more recent versions can cause it to re-activate on its own.

I've heard that, too.

I haven't tried Windows 10 1709 and 1803 to see if that's the case. I'm updating my borked Win 10 1703 installation right now, and might find out.

It is the Windows Update service that has been reported to restart itself when it's disabled. If that's the case, then the restarting of the WU service might be able to be stopped by opening the properties for the Windows Update service, then clicking on the Recovery tab, then setting the "First failure" box to "Take No Action", and making sure that the Second and Subsequent failure boxes are set to the same.

I haven't tried this, but my expectation is that this should stop the WU service from restarting itself.


If that doesn't work, then Microsoft is extremely evil but automatic Windows Update service can still be disabled in GPE. However, the GPE method is less optimal than disabling the WU service, as the GPE route will present full-screen messages lying to the Windows owner that they need to install updates after WU hasn't been run for about 2 months.

 

[chithanh]

Ugh, this thread is a dumpster fire.

The problem here that people bought Windows 7 to run on their old systems, believing in Microsoft's promise that they would receive security updates until January 2020. Microsoft has broken the promise.
If they could upgrade to Windows 8 or 10, surely many would. But SSE2 was already mandatory for those.

So the option would be:

1. Throw out their perfectly working and adequate hardware, and buy something newer - but not too new, or Windows 7 will not support that either
2. Throw out both their hardware and Windows 7. Then get a new PC with Windows 10, rewarding Microsoft in the process
   
3. Continue using Windows 7, without security updates
   
4. Install Linux to get security updates and support for their old hardware

I can totally understand that people who are upset at Microsoft's broken promise will balk at 1+2. For PCs that are networked/online, 3 is a bad idea. So 4 would be the sensible option for anyone whose use cases are covered by Linux.

 

[auntjemima]

I've heard that, too.

I haven't tried Windows 10 1709 and 1803 to see if that's the case. I'm updating my borked Win 10 1703 installation right now, and might find out.

It is the Windows Update service that has been reported to restart itself when it's disabled. If that's the case, then the restarting of the WU service might be able to be stopped by opening the properties for the Windows Update service, then clicking on the Recovery tab, then setting the "First failure" box to "Take No Action", and making sure that the Second and Subsequent failure boxes are set to the same.

I haven't tried this, but my expectation is that this should stop the WU service from restarting itself.


If that doesn't work, then Microsoft is extremely evil but automatic Windows Update service can still be disabled in GPE. However, the GPE method is less optimal than disabling the WU service, as the GPE route will present full-screen messages lying to the Windows owner that they need to install updates after WU hasn't been run for about 2 months.

I came across this issue a while ago when my 1709 update would fail every time at 69% with no reasoning and no explanation. Just fail and revert.

I tried the suggestion you have above, under the recovery tab on the service and that does not work. It will reenable itself and try the update again.

IIRC there was a folder that the update had downloaded that I needed to delete as well. Apparently that folder had a program that would run, reenabling the WU service and trying the update again.

Deleted that and disabled the service and I haven't had an issue.

 

[odditory]

I've heard that, too.

I haven't tried Windows 10 1709 and 1803 to see if that's the case. I'm updating my borked Win 10 1703 installation right now, and might find out.

It is the Windows Update service that has been reported to restart itself when it's disabled. If that's the case, then the restarting of the WU service might be able to be stopped by opening the properties for the Windows Update service, then clicking on the Recovery tab, then setting the "First failure" box to "Take No Action", and making sure that the Second and Subsequent failure boxes are set to the same.

I haven't tried this, but my expectation is that this should stop the WU service from restarting itself.


If that doesn't work, then Microsoft is extremely evil but automatic Windows Update service can still be disabled in GPE. However, the GPE method is less optimal than disabling the WU service, as the GPE route will present full-screen messages lying to the Windows owner that they need to install updates after WU hasn't been run for about 2 months.

In fact there is a windows update backchannel that Microsoft hardcoded, seemingly to deal with all the people disabling windows update through various means. I know it existed in 1709 but may have existed in previous builds. My experience with W10 Pro 1709:

I had Windows Update service disabled.
I had "Delay feature updates 365 days" set in GPEDIT
I had the Windows Update scheduled tasks disabled. These are lesser known, but they will re-enable windows update if you disable the service. Also little known: If you delete these scheduled tasks, windows will just recreate them.
I had Metered Connection enabled

And despite all that, I came home after a weekend to find "Welcome to your April update!" fullscreen on a PC that had been running a process all weekend, and was interrupted by the forced conversion to 1803, and I incurred lost revenue as a result. All the bloatware that I had removed from the ISO originally was back - Edge, Store, Cortana, mobile games , Xbox game bullshit etc. Since the multi-GB, seasonal updates are really just full installs, the lean install of 1709 I'd created with MSMG Toolkit - and was running perfectly fine - was re-bloated with 1803.

I REALLY tried to give the OS the benefit of the doubt, I hung in there with 10 and tolerated all the headaches along the way, but that was the last straw. My PCs all now run Windows 8.1 with ClassicShell, all the spyware related KB updates removed, windows update blocked, and security updates are installed weekly with WSUS Offline. I still keep the latest Windows 10 build in a VM with no network adapters enabled just for trivial testing, but 10 will not touch any bare metal again.

 

[ZLoth]

You can try using Shutdown Guard to prevent reboots without permission, but it isn't 100% effective.

 

[odditory]

Which the cumulative update process now, it not really possible to separate out security updates from other updates, it all tested and deployed as a single unit across the different branches. I guess what would make some happy is easy access to the LTSB but those are only getting updated once every 2 years now, so you kind of end up with the big bang delivery method of old Windows.

This is nonsense. Windows 7 and 8.1. receive the same security updates as 10 if you actually pay attention to and compare the lists. This isn't surprising since they're the same underlying OS and 10 really isn't meaningfully different. The earliest Windows 10 builds were actually stamped Windows 8.2. So there's no reason Microsoft can't just allow users to receive security updates while actually honoring the settings Microsoft provided - to DEFER the bloated, seasonal full-reinstalls. It's the latter that's creating many of the problems people are experiencing with bricked PCs or the rollback function failing for some people. It's not the security updates that are culprit.

 

[Meeho]

Which the cumulative update process now, it not really possible to separate out security updates from other updates, it all tested and deployed...

Aaaahahahahahahahaha!

 

[tetris42]

In fact there is a windows update backchannel that Microsoft hardcoded, seemingly to deal with all the people disabling windows update through various means. I know it existed in 1709 but may have existed in previous builds. My experience with W10 Pro 1709:

I had Windows Update service disabled.
I had "Delay feature updates 365 days" set in GPEDIT
I had the Windows Update scheduled tasks disabled. These are lesser known, but they will re-enable windows update if you disable the service. Also little known: If you delete these scheduled tasks, windows will just recreate them.
I had Metered Connection enabled

And despite all that, I came home after a weekend to find "Welcome to your April update!" fullscreen on a PC that had been running a process all weekend, and was interrupted by the forced conversion to 1803, and I incurred lost revenue as a result. All the bloatware that I had removed from the ISO originally was back - Edge, Store, Cortana, mobile games , Xbox game bullshit etc. Since the multi-GB, seasonal updates are really just full installs, the lean install of 1709 I'd created with MSMG Toolkit - and was running perfectly fine - was re-bloated with 1803.

I REALLY tried to give the OS the benefit of the doubt, I hung in there with 10 and tolerated all the headaches along the way, but that was the last straw. My PCs all now run Windows 8.1 with ClassicShell, all the spyware related KB updates removed, windows update blocked, and security updates are installed weekly with WSUS Offline. I still keep the latest Windows 10 build in a VM with no network adapters enabled just for trivial testing, but 10 will not touch any bare metal again.

To the "you're just afraid of change" people, THIS is the change we don't like.

 

[Stanley Pain]

Do you also only bang 10's?
And do you drive your Huracan only when your Chiron is having it's scheduled maintenance?

I pay someone to post.

 

[Delicieuxz]

I've had issues with Windows 10's updates. Twice, they have completely bricked my system and I had to do full clean re-installations. Watching the Windows OS forum at LTT, there have been many issues with updates to major Win 10 version, and people have had their systems bricked by them in a variety of ways.

And this happened to my Windows 10 system out of the blue, despite no updates being installed recently, and no program or settings changes recently:

[image]

In addition to the missing icons in the OS, various Windows programs no longer launch from the start menu (including Services, Control Panel, Notepad, Wordpad), and right-clicking on ( C: ) in File Explorer and clicking Properties doesn't open up the properties window.


I have no idea how to fix the problems, so I just stopped using Windows 10.

I've heard that, too.

I haven't tried Windows 10 1709 and 1803 to see if that's the case. I'm updating my borked Win 10 1703 installation right now, and might find out.

It is the Windows Update service that has been reported to restart itself when it's disabled. If that's the case, then the restarting of the WU service might be able to be stopped by opening the properties for the Windows Update service, then clicking on the Recovery tab, then setting the "First failure" box to "Take No Action", and making sure that the Second and Subsequent failure boxes are set to the same.

I haven't tried this, but my expectation is that this should stop the WU service from restarting itself.


If that doesn't work, then Microsoft is extremely evil but automatic Windows Update service can still be disabled in GPE. However, the GPE method is less optimal than disabling the WU service, as the GPE route will present full-screen messages lying to the Windows owner that they need to install updates after WU hasn't been run for about 2 months.

I've finished updating my Win 10 1703 OS to 1803. It seems to have fixed the issues that randomly appeared with my 1703 installation with the missing desktop, task bar, and system icons, and various default Windows programs not launching, and the properties panel for disk drives not opening. So, that's good news.

I've gone through the Services and Task Scheduler items for Windows Update and disabled them, and unchecked anything in their configuration that has to do with them restarting. I guess I'll see over the course of time whether the Windows Update service will remain shut off.

I've also installed Startisback to get rid of Windows 10's awful default start menu:

 

[Ranulfo]

And I guess that's the question. Windows 10 alone is running on about 700 million PCs. If one were to take any current Linux distro and install it on 700 million PCs, I certain the process would be far from clean in just getting the basics straight, never mind application support.

From an engineering perspective, what exactly would represent good quality? Obviously zero issue would be the goal but that's impossible. I do wish that Microsoft would publish data on this, all that "spyware" should be giving them some good info on quality. I just don't see how one can objectively measure this issue without tons of data from across multiple OSes. Hell, is there even any data on how well the average Linux install and update process goes?

I don't expect perfection but why are we seeing more problems with 10 than 7 or 8? I know of more and more people who have issues with forced reboots/updates at bad times. 3 hours to effectively reinstall the OS with the fall creators update is sane? Why am I, even with win7 machines more and more paranoid about making clones/images/windows restore points before patches?

 

[Ranulfo]

I love Windows 98. Still using it on my retropc. Right where it belongs, not on newer hardware 20 years later as people here feel Windows 7 should be able to do.

Win7 is not that old compared to 8/10 engine wise. Two, MS has been touting guarantees that win10 will last the life of a system and be supported till that machine dies (hah hah hah). Three, no one sane expects 7 should be running 20 years later on new hardware but an updated OS that isn't some insane hybrid mobile/desktop OS mess that keeps taking away control of your own computer is what most desire. Why fix what isn't broken? Why spy on your users to such insane degrees when you're the controlling monopoly? Because, hey they can and they want more money via infomation dealing. That and they are lazy and following the latest trends from the mobile sphere. Because they are idiots who believe in distributed/cloud computing above all.

 

[Red Falcon]

Thanks for the update.

That box has 4GB of DDR500 memory in it.

I may throw a small SSD in it and she how she goes.

Yeah, as long as you have 4GB of RAM and are running 64-bit version of the OS, it should be able to handle it just fine.
2GB is barely enough for any modern Debian-variant of Linux with a GUI running, let alone any programs on top of that, so 4GB should be sufficient - a SSD would definitely load times as well, and if anything ends up hitting SWAP space.

 

[Red Falcon]

Ugh, this thread is a dumpster fire.

The problem here that people bought Windows 7 to run on their old systems, believing in Microsoft's promise that they would receive security updates until January 2020. Microsoft has broken the promise.
If they could upgrade to Windows 8 or 10, surely many would. But SSE2 was already mandatory for those.

So the option would be:

1. Throw out their perfectly working and adequate hardware, and buy something newer - but not too new, or Windows 7 will not support that either
2. Throw out both their hardware and Windows 7. Then get a new PC with Windows 10, rewarding Microsoft in the process
   
3. Continue using Windows 7, without security updates
   
4. Install Linux to get security updates and support for their old hardware

I can totally understand that people who are upset at Microsoft's broken promise will balk at 1+2. For PCs that are networked/online, 3 is a bad idea. So 4 would be the sensible option for anyone whose use cases are covered by Linux.

An Athlon XP or Pentium III based system is not adequate hardware for Windows 7 - period.
Those are considered retro systems at this point, and while I commend anyone for running Windows 7 for this long on such a system, they are very unsecure at this point since those systems could not be patched for Meltdown, though Microsoft did release a 32-bit OS patch for Spectre not too long ago, so props to them for that.

An Athlon original/XP/MP or Pentium III system is far inferior to even a bottom-of-the-barrel low-end dual-core Atom-based system made in the last few years.
Those processors are between 16-19 years old... great for what they were, but even coming from a retrocomputing enthusiast, I have to say that those systems have no place running a modern (still older) OS with mainstream usage.

They lack SSE2, which as stated earlier in this thread, was released with the Pentium 4 in 2000 - 18 years ago.
For a retro build running Windows XP or lower, they are great, and even for running GNU/Linux with a GUI, those systems would be painful.

I feel like this old UNIX admin:

 

[Deleted member 126051]

I pay someone to post.

Ah so.

This is me TOLD!

 

[Deleted member 126051]

In fact there is a windows update backchannel that Microsoft hardcoded, seemingly to deal with all the people disabling windows update through various means. I know it existed in 1709 but may have existed in previous builds. My experience with W10 Pro 1709:

I had Windows Update service disabled.
I had "Delay feature updates 365 days" set in GPEDIT
I had the Windows Update scheduled tasks disabled. These are lesser known, but they will re-enable windows update if you disable the service. Also little known: If you delete these scheduled tasks, windows will just recreate them.
I had Metered Connection enabled

And despite all that, I came home after a weekend to find "Welcome to your April update!" fullscreen on a PC that had been running a process all weekend, and was interrupted by the forced conversion to 1803, and I incurred lost revenue as a result. All the bloatware that I had removed from the ISO originally was back - Edge, Store, Cortana, mobile games , Xbox game bullshit etc. Since the multi-GB, seasonal updates are really just full installs, the lean install of 1709 I'd created with MSMG Toolkit - and was running perfectly fine - was re-bloated with 1803.

I REALLY tried to give the OS the benefit of the doubt, I hung in there with 10 and tolerated all the headaches along the way, but that was the last straw. My PCs all now run Windows 8.1 with ClassicShell, all the spyware related KB updates removed, windows update blocked, and security updates are installed weekly with WSUS Offline. I still keep the latest Windows 10 build in a VM with no network adapters enabled just for trivial testing, but 10 will not touch any bare metal again.

Honestly, if avoiding that shit is your goal, spend out for the licenses for Enterprise LTSB or buy an Action Pack Subscription.

Then, the only way you get ANYTHING other than security updates is via MANUAL reinstall of the OS from a new ISO.

I'm still on LTSB 2015 at the moment. Mostly because it was the first ISO I had access to and I was in a hurry.
But to upgrade to 2016 LTSB, I'd have to reinstall my system from scratch. Not QUITE ready to do that.

The next LTSB is 2019 IIRC. So I'll probably wait for that.

 

[Trimlock]

I don't expect perfection but why are we seeing more problems with 10 than 7 or 8? I know of more and more people who have issues with forced reboots/updates at bad times. 3 hours to effectively reinstall the OS with the fall creators update is sane? Why am I, even with win7 machines more and more paranoid about making clones/images/windows restore points before patches?

I had more issues (a whopping two btw) with win 7 updates that broke stuff than win 10. My biggest gripe is the random network setting changes caused by win 10 updates. The win 7 updates completely borked my system, I believe both were a result of Realtek drivers, but nothing official.

 

[chaos4u]

All i know is that you people who claim to have "no problems at all " with windows 10 are either lying or fit into a tested demographic at the microsoft Q&A dept.
because with every creators update my phone rings with

Printers no longer working.

programs no longer allowed through the firewall.

backups no longer occuring .

and in a few cases machines no longer booting.

and my favorite some how locked out of their machine .


so no windows 10 is not perfect and im tired of the bull shit claims that that win 10 updates with no problems at all . i have seen enough cases to know that people are lying and or configured in such a generic way that win10 updates will not fail for them .

so stop trivializing other peoples issues, they are freaking real. peoples machines are being broke by win 10, it costs time and money to fix these issues and it should not be tolerated .


but you apologist just keep on giving every damn thing away to microsoft and the other companies out there encroaching on your ownership of your property.

just so you can have whatever worthless whizbang feature that does absolutely nothing for you . because somehow you feel that blind adoption is the path forward.

bedamned what it costs the rest of us who have a reasonable expectation of privacy, usability, and ownership of the things we purchase with our own damn money.