Microsoft Proves the Critics Right: We're Heading toward a Chrome-Only Web

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,004
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Chrome’s total dominance of the web is becoming more of a reality by each passing day, and Microsoft, whose Edge browser will soon be powered by Chromium, has become a clear contributor to that dark future: the company has released a new version of Skype for Web, but despite legitimate improvements such as HD video calling and recording, the service will not work on non-Chromium browsers such as Firefox and Safari. Users have managed to sidestep this by changing their user agent, which suggests laziness on Microsoft’s part, or something worse.

    There's perhaps also some irony in that the Skype app is built with a framework designed to foster cross-platform development, between devices, desktop, and the Web. For those who can use the Web app, it looks extremely similar to the desktop apps, which also look very similar to the mobile apps. That's because it's built using ReactXP, Microsoft's layer on top of Facebook's React and React Native frameworks. These let you use Web technology to build applications not just for the Web but also the desktop and smartphone platforms.
     
  2. bobdabilder

    bobdabilder Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    297
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
  3. harbingerofdoom

    harbingerofdoom Gawd

    Messages:
    773
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Armenius, Messy, Nytegard and 8 others like this.
  4. PhaseNoise

    PhaseNoise [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    What better way of directly advertising to the world that your web developers don't know what they are doing?
     
  5. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,389
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    I'm going with the latter here Mega.
     
  6. clockdogg

    clockdogg Gawd

    Messages:
    832
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2007
    If Chrome does succeed in total web domination, it's a clear sign the web as we dread it will be replaced by superior rodent technology. I vote Gopher.
     
    Armenius, jardows and R_Type like this.
  7. trparky

    trparky Gawd

    Messages:
    972
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    The part I don't get about all of the hate about the Internet going all Chrome is that Chrome is based upon Chromium which is OPEN SOURCE!!! Now I'd understand all of hate if it were like it was back in the dark old days of Internet Explorer, the big (even HUGE) difference between then and now is that Internet Explorer was closed source and Chromium is OPEN SOURCE. Open source is good! If you don't like something, contribute to the Chromium project, get your change committed, and then everyone wins. YAY! :D
     
  8. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

    Messages:
    753
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    your a naïve fool.
     
    Zuul, Armenius, Messy and 7 others like this.
  9. PhaseNoise

    PhaseNoise [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Firefox is open source too. It is not clear what point you are making with regards to the headline.
     
    Zuul, Armenius, Messy and 6 others like this.
  10. trparky

    trparky Gawd

    Messages:
    972
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    The point I'm making is that because Chromium is open source we don't have to worry about things like back in the old Internet Explorer days. Again, if you don't like the way things are going then fork Chromium and go your own way and change it to fit your project's needs. Look at Vivaldi as an example of taking Chromium and running with it, it's everything that is Google Chrome and a hell of a lot more; I'd even go so far as to say that Vivaldi is what Google Chrome should be.

    So what if we have one browser engine? I say big deal! The beauty of open source is that you don't necessarily have to follow the pack, fork the project and go your own way.
     
  11. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,810
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2002
    The point of the news article is that your proclamation of "fork it!" won't work out. Instead of coding against standards and letting browsers sort it out, MS is targeting a specific browser. Vivaldi may not be able to run Skype without the same hoop jumping the other browsers are having to do.
    It'd be one thing if MS were to find some edge case where a browser doesn't do what it's supposed to then commit a patch or report a bug, but they're moving to work only against Chrome and treating it as a platform.
     
  12. Ebernanut

    Ebernanut Gawd

    Messages:
    959
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    The real news here is that Skype is still around. Everyone I know that used to use it uses something else now.
     
    Krenum, $trapped, Armenius and 4 others like this.
  13. MV75

    MV75 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,030
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Fork all you want, the compliant libraries will all be the same with the same limitations with added telemetry and other push junk.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  14. commissioneranthony

    commissioneranthony [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,055
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    100% this.
    I had an interview with a company. They asked me to skype. I was like, wait, really? Shit, I havn't used that in over a decade...
     
    Armenius likes this.
  15. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    16,996
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Business telecommunications. That's been the big earner for Skype for years and why it is still around.
     
    Armenius and DedEmbryonicCe11 like this.
  16. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,832
    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Skype for Business is still extremely prominent, and many still use the classic version of Skype for interviews since it is quick and free.
    Fax machines are still used as well. :p
     
  17. GSDragoon

    GSDragoon [H]Lite

    Messages:
    103
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Chrome, IE 6 2.0.
     
    Armenius and 1_rick like this.
  18. Ebernanut

    Ebernanut Gawd

    Messages:
    959
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    That makes sense, it takes them a decade to start using new tech like that so it makes sense that it would take a decade longer to stop using it. Not to mention it's mostly facetime and the facebook one that I hear about people using these days and those are likely a privacy disaster for corporate environments.
     
  19. emphy

    emphy Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    204
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    That's all fine and dandy until you discover your fork doesn't work well with most websites, due to aforementioned engine (as implemented by microsoft and google) exclusivity.
     
    Armenius, clockdogg and tetris42 like this.
  20. Cyraxx

    Cyraxx 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    4,083
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Chromes dominance will magically vanish the moment they fuck with shit like adblockers and other useful extensions.
     
    Armenius and R_Type like this.
  21. the wafflator

    the wafflator n00b

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Microsoft will never make internet pundits happy. When they made the original EdgeHTML Edge everyone made fun of it and said it sucked (even though it was decent). Now they basically said "ok fine we get it" and made it chromium based, and everyone hates that too. Tell me, internet, what could Microsoft do with their browser that people would actually like? They already provided a perfectly viable alternative to Chrome (old Edge) and nobody used it.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  22. trparky

    trparky Gawd

    Messages:
    972
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Nothing. A lot of the Internet likes to hate Microsoft just because it's cool to hate Microsoft. Even if the Son of God Himself came down from on high and blessed Edge people would still hate it because it's Microsoft.
     
    GoldenTiger and 1_rick like this.
  23. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,345
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Microsoft was every bit as evil of an empire as they are portrayed to be. I wouldn't be too charitable to them now.
     
    KarsusTG, Armenius and R_Type like this.
  24. Fasda

    Fasda n00b

    Messages:
    10
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    MS fluffing up a few small open source projects are good PR to the uninitiated, until you realize they're not supporting open source where it matters.
     
    Armenius and clockdogg like this.
  25. clockdogg

    clockdogg Gawd

    Messages:
    832
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2007
    Microsoft could get out of the browser business. In 1999. And google could get out of the browser business. In 2019. But it's hard to leave the data-mines and get a real job.
     
  26. TheOne&OnlyZeke

    TheOne&OnlyZeke 100% Irish

    Messages:
    10,163
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2000
    Eh. Hate Chrome, hate Skype... So... I'm good?
     
    Armenius and Messy like this.
  27. 1_rick

    1_rick Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    395
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    The problem is, there's no guarantee they won't stop doing that. Don't believe me? Get out your Android phone and fire up Browser or any of the other open source apps Google replaced with closed-source apps and stopped developing.

    You can say "Oh, they'd never do that", but they literally already have.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  28. PantherBlitz

    PantherBlitz Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    422
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    We just send a link to a Zoom meeting.
     
    Red Falcon likes this.
  29. Kajun614

    Kajun614 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Hate skype so I guess im good?
     
  30. pillagenburn

    pillagenburn Gawd

    Messages:
    833
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    I won't ever use a chromium browser again because it's all from Google... I'm actually trying to move my desktop/laptop to Linux also.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  31. dvsman

    dvsman 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,503
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Okay so the code is based on something from Google. Can someone explain to me what is the issue with that? Does Google maintain some backdoor to tracking you or sniffing your data through the browser that way?

    AFAIK it's the fact that we use Google search and the tracking cookies that come with that, that actually harvests our data. It doesn't matter if you use IE or Chrome or Firefox or Safari if you keep using Google as your search engine and let it drop cookies in all of your business.

    My present setup is as follows: For my Google ecosystem things, I use chrome and google search, otherwise I use firefox and duckduckgo ... and wipe all cookies on shutdown. No issues.
     
  32. raz-0

    raz-0 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,491
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2003
    It's all about the timing. If they had gone chromium when EdgeHTML was new, they would have been lauded. The problem is at this point with google and chromium, people realize the elephant's foot is in the door, the rest of it is pushing in, and the elephant is here to fuck your house up. And microsoft is now helping push the elephant all the way into your livingroom. MS doesn't care about your struggle with the elephant, they just want to move to the most deployed engine for testing against to streamline the testing of their various web-centric cloud products.
     
    clockdogg likes this.
  33. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

    Messages:
    16,520
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Because Google is trying to dictate web design. They're like the Monsanto of the internet.
     
    pendragon1 and clockdogg like this.
  34. 1_rick

    1_rick Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    395
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    If you want to not-support Google by not using their search engine, why would you support them by using their browser? Consider your answer in the light of sketchy moves like the secret binary blob that was downloaded even if you used Chromium instead of Chrome (never mind, for the moment, that it didn't actually spy on you--it could have), or the time not so long ago they tried to force you to sign into Chrome if you signed into Gmail, thus potentially doing things like merging your home and work history if you checked your home email at the office), or even the time they broke behavior going right back to the very first browsers by removing the functionality that Esc stops background sounds and animated images just because stupid young web developers didn't know about that functionality and complained that they wanted Esc to do something else.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  35. 1_rick

    1_rick Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    395
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    And that would've been the wrong response from the audience. If enabling a monopoly now is bad, so would have been doing it three years ago.
     
  36. Staples

    Staples [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,714
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    I still use Firefox. But the masses have spoken.

    I have had to download Chrome to use a website or two this year since they won't work with MS browsers or Firefox. This is yet another.

    Sad.
     
  37. dvsman

    dvsman 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,503
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    1_rick I don't think people know about the technical flaws of Chrome / Chromium / Chrome based browser tech. I certainly didn't until you brought it up. Of course if it is a "they could do something / what if" scenario, I'm not too worried about it since I'm sure any and every browser can be hacked if someone really wanted to.

    - As for the Gmail forcing a Chrome sign in - sure - that's why I use IE or Edge or something else for work (or alternatively bring in your own computer or laptop and use that for personal things). I do a combination of those things as needed (which isn't often). Is it a hassle? Sure, but if you are a paranoid security nut, that's what it takes. You can't have easy and security all at once.

    - Google dictating web standards? I don't think the majority of people / sheeple give a crap. Personally, I'm not a web developer attached to a certain way of doing something. Whether it's a standard defined by a central standards defining body or by Google / Microsoft or whoever ... makes no never mind to me / most people.

    Bottom line, as [H] always says "If something is free (Chrome / Firefox / whatever) you are the commodity." By now everyone knows what they're getting since they know what they're paying (FREE!).
     
  38. 1_rick

    1_rick Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    395
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Yes, but this was Google putting it in the browser themselves.

    My larger point here is when Microsoft approached a monopoly on the browser people rightly had a screaming fit about it; whereas when Google does the exact same thing--including, like I forgot to mention earlier, following Microsoft's old Embrace, Extend, Extinguish policy by proposing new HTML or whatever features and then just starting to use them in Chrome--it's met with utter silence by probably the very same people.

    Edge has a lot of warts. No doubt. But other than the fact it's slower than Chrome, it was shaping up into a decent browser, and we'll probably be sorry when we're down to Chrome and Firefox.
     
    GoldenTiger and Armenius like this.
  39. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

    Messages:
    16,520
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    My experience has been the opposite. I've never run into a website that doesn't work in Waterfox, yet I've had several issues with websites in Chrome, especially in the past 6 months.
     
  40. Kajun614

    Kajun614 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    I bounce between Firefox, Chrome and Opera