Microsoft Patent Would Have Windows Watch Everything You Do For Better Search Results

[Megalith]

In what is being dubbed as “Clippy on steroids,” Microsoft wants to hook into your running applications, capture relevant contextual data, and then send it to Bing for better searches. I have not read through the patent filing, but the article suggests it is smart enough to remove personally identifiable information.

Microsoft’s solution…is to have an agent or “mediator” watching what the user is doing in “active 3rd party applications” such as a word processor PDF reader, recognizing images or text from the photos they are looking at, recognizing music or sound, their location and other contextual data, removing personally identifiable information from this data, and adding it in some way to the search query to produce better ranked and more focused results. …The patent is in some ways similar to Google’s Now on Tap or Screen Search, which scrapes an application screen for text and other information and then launches a contextual Google Search. It does however sound a bit more far reaching and a lot more autonomous.

 

[EODetroit]

No business (other than Microsoft) wants this, no government agency wants this, no individuals want this. This feature, were it to be deployed, will not get installed on any computer I own, even if that means I never update past Windows 7.

 

[iNViSiGOD]

Things like this further cement the reasons that I only log into Windows when I want to game. I'll stick to Linux for my day to day operations.

 

[Tak Ne]

*blocks all access to voyeurmetrics.microsoft.com

 

[Ultima99]

So far today we have Capcom, Google, and now MS stepping up their invasion of privacy BS. Great.

 

[Nashligo]

No business (other than Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple, Sony, and most government organizations) wants this, no individuals want this. This feature, were it to be deployed, will not get installed on any computer I own, even if that means I never update past Windows 7.

Fixed.

 

[TechLarry]

Now you know why Windows 10 is free.

Windows 10 is the biggest Trojan Horse since, well, the Trojan Horse.

Favorite saying 5 years from now:

Microsoft - Fuck you and the Horse you rode in on.

 

[ChadD]

Will you have to learn a bit about how your OS works to be happy with Linux... yes.
Will you have to do some thinking to build a personal version of Linux to love... yes.
Can you control exactly everything you and your machine interacts with if you find the will power to do the previous 2 things.... yes.

No time like the present to actually learn about your computer and how it works. It doesn't require a computer science degree, and there is a superior Linux solution for almost every use case. The ever shrinking number of cases where Windows is still wanted (not needed) for things like games... a Windows 7 part is extremely easy to delete later (when you realise you don't really need it) or to format with ext4 for use as general storage space.

There are some switch pains sure... but nothing you won't get over with in a few months depending how willing you are to do some reading and thinking for yourself.

 

[Galvin]

MS is seeing how far they can go. Just hope you never get sued, cause all that collection info can then be used against you.

 

[cyclone3d]

Will you have to learn a bit about how your OS works to be happy with Linux... yes.
Will you have to do some thinking to build a personal version of Linux to love... yes.
Can you control exactly everything you and your machine interacts with if you find the will power to do the previous 2 things.... yes.

No time like the present to actually learn about your computer and how it works. It doesn't require a computer science degree, and there is a superior Linux solution for almost every use case. The ever shrinking number of cases where Windows is still wanted (not needed) for things like games... a Windows 7 part is extremely easy to delete later (when you realise you don't really need it) or to format with ext4 for use as general storage space.

There are some switch pains sure... but nothing you won't get over with in a few months depending how willing you are to do some reading and thinking for yourself.

If all my hardware had good drivers available for Linux AND I was able to play ALL my games that need Windows in Linux at the same or higher speed, then I would definitely switch.

Same goes for other software that I use that is not available for Linux.

As it is now, that is not the case and probably never will be.

 

[arentol]

No business (other than Microsoft) wants this, no government agency wants this, no individuals want this. This feature, were it to be deployed, will not get installed on any computer I own, even if that means I never update past Windows 7.

Actually, I want it and a lot of younger people want it, and in probably less than 20 years almost everyone will want it, because it will come with capabilities that will make your life so much easier that you will give up almost everything that happens in your life to get those capabilities. Some examples:

Your wife is walking through the mall when she notices a purse she really really likes, but it is $600 so she isn't going to buy it for herself. Her phone (or the equivalent that we all carry at that time), records this information. 7 months later it is your anniversary and since this is not private information (especially for you), your phone contacts her records and suggests this as a gift for her. You get it for her, and.... Well lets just say it is a VERY good anniversary.

You don't have your own car, because personal cars are no longer necessary for anyone who lives in urban or suburban areas. Instead your phone has your entire schedule available to it, and does analytics to predict when you will likely need a car as a last-minute decision. This is true of everyone without their own car, and so UBER/LYFT/GOOGLE/etc. self-driving cars are intelligently routed to your house when you definitely need one, and to your neighborhood based on how many people in your neighborhood "might" need one in the near future. The end result being that you walk out the door and a car appropriate to the size of your party is there ready to go 90% of the time, and arrives within 1 minute the other 10% of the time. If you prefer ride-sharing to reduce costs, that is also predicted based on things like whether you are going on a date, have children with you, are just going to work alone, etc, and the car is automatically ordered with the appropriate option.

You will still be able to get a ride without life-sharing, but you will have to request it manually each time, and the reality is that the life-sharing way will be so simple and seamless in every aspect of your life that almost everyone will end up being more than happy to give up this information.
Also, you won't have to worry about identity theft and similar activities as much because if you share everything about your life then it will become functionally impossible for someone to pretend to be you, because they will clearly not be you to the systems that have all your information.
Passwords will be a thing of the past because only you can be you. Hacking will be very different and much harder than it is today because you will need a Super-computing AI on your side to even have the slightest chance in hell of hacking most systems, especially when it come time to pretend to be someone other than who you are.

Also, the reason MSFT want's this information is not really for searches... Well it is, but that is very much for the short-term. Long-term this information will allow them to develop AI's (non-sentient "near AI's" actually) much faster, because AI's are going to come from lots of computing power and good programming combined with lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of information. The more we give them the faster they come, the faster they come the sooner our lives get much easier, and the more information we will want to give them.

Obviously there are other concerns, especially regarding things like sex, going to the bathroom, criminal activity, etc. Turning the recording off will be controlled similar to the "incognito" function in web browsers, except that the system will almost always turn itself off for you, because it will know when you like it turned off.

I could be wrong about all this of course, it is just a prediction, and some things may work quite differently, or take much longer to happen, but I think the core of it is likely right.

 

[Deleted member 278999]

Actually, I want it and a lot of younger people want it, and in probably less than 20 years almost everyone will want it, because it will come with capabilities that will make your life so much easier that you will give up almost everything that happens in your life to get those capabilities. Some examples:

Your wife is walking through the mall when she notices a purse she really really likes, but it is $600 so she isn't going to buy it for herself. Her phone (or the equivalent that we all carry at that time), records this information. 7 months later it is your anniversary and since this is not private information (especially for you), your phone contacts her records and suggests this as a gift for her. You get it for her, and.... Well lets just say it is a VERY good anniversary.

You don't have your own car, because personal cars are no longer necessary for anyone who lives in urban or suburban areas. Instead your phone has your entire schedule available to it, and does analytics to predict when you will likely need a car as a last-minute decision. This is true of everyone without their own car, and so UBER/LYFT/GOOGLE/etc. self-driving cars are intelligently routed to your house when you definitely need one, and to your neighborhood based on how many people in your neighborhood "might" need one in the near future. The end result being that you walk out the door and a car appropriate to the size of your party is there ready to go 90% of the time, and arrives within 1 minute the other 10% of the time. If you prefer ride-sharing to reduce costs, that is also predicted based on things like whether you are going on a date, have children with you, are just going to work alone, etc, and the car is automatically ordered with the appropriate option.

You will still be able to get a ride without life-sharing, but you will have to request it manually each time, and the reality is that the life-sharing way will be so simple and seamless in every aspect of your life that almost everyone will end up being more than happy to give up this information.
Also, you won't have to worry about identity theft and similar activities as much because if you share everything about your life then it will become functionally impossible for someone to pretend to be you, because they will clearly not be you to the systems that have all your information.
Passwords will be a thing of the past because only you can be you. Hacking will be very different and much harder than it is today because you will need a Super-computing AI on your side to even have the slightest chance in hell of hacking most systems, especially when it come time to pretend to be someone other than who you are.

Also, the reason MSFT want's this information is not really for searches... Well it is, but that is very much for the short-term. Long-term this information will allow them to develop AI's (non-sentient "near AI's" actually) much faster, because AI's are going to come from lots of computing power and good programming combined with lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of information. The more we give them the faster they come, the faster they come the sooner our lives get much easier, and the more information we will want to give them.

Obviously there are other concerns, especially regarding things like sex, going to the bathroom, criminal activity, etc. Turning the recording off will be controlled similar to the "incognito" function in web browsers, except that the system will almost always turn itself off for you, because it will know when you like it turned off.

I could be wrong about all this of course, it is just a prediction, and some things may work quite differently, or take much longer to happen, but I think the core of it is likely right.

There you go giving up privacy for your convenience. Artificial intelligence cannot replace genuine intelligence. It might look like a duck and quack like a duck, but ask it a question it's not programed for and ERROR - This logic cannot be found.

All of these problems you mentioned are easily solved doing it yourself without the peeping.

I don't know where this far fetched world of science fiction you live in that does no evil is, but here on planet earth technology is driven by two things, war and pornography.

Hate to break it to you but even in Star Trek one needs to request a shuttle.

Side note, if your wife desires a $600 purse to make her happy, something is wrong. Pro tip, go read 1984 and stop abbreviating Microsoft as MSFT. It's stupid.

Go get yourself a slave, a spy and see a psychologist. All of your problems will magically go away. Or you can go the route of doing things yourself, spending more time with your wife and friends.

The problem is, and we're seeing it already, but people are going to bore themselves to death.

People get fat, lazy and stupid. That said I'm going to go tend to my backyard farm.

 

[ChadD]

If all my hardware had good drivers available for Linux AND I was able to play ALL my games that need Windows in Linux at the same or higher speed, then I would definitely switch.

Same goes for other software that I use that is not available for Linux.

As it is now, that is not the case and probably never will be.

It will only remain true so long as people make up silly arbitrary reasons to stick with MS.

Yes some games that run on linux are poorly ported, that doesn't describe the majority though. Games like borderlands and bioshock that are "ports" run faster on my personal Linux setup then they did on the same machine with W7.

I haven't run into one game I cared about that wouldn't run in Linux in around a year. I had no issues with the new Master of Orion, Xcom... about the only reason I can think of to keep a W7 part (which I don't) would be perhaps MMOs if your into those, running those with wine isn't ideal if your into MMO PvP I guess. In my case I decided awhile back that every mmo worth playing has turned into a micro transaction shit show anyway so I decided I was out... when I did that I couldn't think of a Linux no go game good enough to justify having to deal with MS.

The more people make the switch... the more games we get (like Xcom/MOO) that aren't ports, and games like DOTA that get top notch Vulkan support.

Linux works more then fine for games, I suppose if you have something against steam it makes Linux gaming a bit more of an issue. Linux + Steam however if pretty darn slick, looking at the steam top 10 this morning 6 out of 10 are good to go on linux... and imo the 4 that where windows only, every single one of them is a terrible console port, and your better off buying it for your PS4. Actual PC games, almost without exception end up on Linux, day and date these days.

 

[ChadD]

Your wife is walking through the mall when she notices a purse she really really likes, but it is $600 so she isn't going to buy it for herself. Her phone (or the equivalent that we all carry at that time), records this information. 7 months later it is your anniversary and since this is not private information (especially for you), your phone contacts her records and suggests this as a gift for her. You get it for her, and.... Well lets just say it is a VERY good anniversary.

OR....

Your wife walks buy that lovely purse in the mall. Deciding your family can't afford to drop $600 on a purse she just looks.

So for the next 2 months every second day your wife gets ads pushed to her phone... pushed to her os start bar... pushed to her browser. They really really want her to have that fantastic little purse.

Then she breaks down and buys it when they put it on sale for $500, a few weeks before your anniversary.

Perhaps though you can just pick up her phone and see which ads they're force feeding her all day long. Something else in the list might be exactly the right gift instead. With all the stories about how facebook makes you kids sad... I gotta say, constantly advertising to you things you can't afford and don't need, its not the key to happiness.

 

[Jim Kim]

Duplicitous with Windows 10.

 

[cyclone3d]

It will only remain true so long as people make up silly arbitrary reasons to stick with MS.

Yes some games that run on linux are poorly ported, that doesn't describe the majority though. Games like borderlands and bioshock that are "ports" run faster on my personal Linux setup then they did on the same machine with W7.

I haven't run into one game I cared about that wouldn't run in Linux in around a year. I had no issues with the new Master of Orion, Xcom... about the only reason I can think of to keep a W7 part (which I don't) would be perhaps MMOs if your into those, running those with wine isn't ideal if your into MMO PvP I guess. In my case I decided awhile back that every mmo worth playing has turned into a micro transaction shit show anyway so I decided I was out... when I did that I couldn't think of a Linux no go game good enough to justify having to deal with MS.

The more people make the switch... the more games we get (like Xcom/MOO) that aren't ports, and games like DOTA that get top notch Vulkan support.

Linux works more then fine for games, I suppose if you have something against steam it makes Linux gaming a bit more of an issue. Linux + Steam however if pretty darn slick, looking at the steam top 10 this morning 6 out of 10 are good to go on linux... and imo the 4 that where windows only, every single one of them is a terrible console port, and your better off buying it for your PS4. Actual PC games, almost without exception end up on Linux, day and date these days.

The reasons I have are NOT arbitrary.

Game Maker Studio is only available for Windows.

Visual Studio is only available for Windows - yeah, there are other IDEs and compilers available in Linux, but they all pretty much suck compared to VS. I generally try some of the "better" ones every couple years and they all just suck almost as bad as they did the last time I tried them.

Driver support for GPUs, sound cards, etc also sucks for Linux.

There are good things about Linux and not so good things about Linux.

At this point it is not feasible for me to switch.

 

[Mistral]

The really scary thing about this is some of the naive comments below that article actually indicating that this farce would be beneficial.

 

[M76]

It will only remain true so long as people make up silly arbitrary reasons to stick with MS.

Yes because most applications and games only being available on windows is a silly arbitrary reason. Get a grip with reality, please.

 

[ChefJeff789]

Oh, good. This is the feature I've been waiting for!

 

[HeavensCloud]

Wouldn't one have to use Bing for this to effect them?

 

[ChadD]

Yes because most applications and games only being available on windows is a silly arbitrary reason. Get a grip with reality, please.

I have been Linux mainly for years... and Linux only for 3 or 4 months now. Reality is, Linux takes care of 100% of anything any average user needs. If you are a web or any type of developer really Linux has been the superior OS for a long time. For every small tick you can put down for windows because it has a third party software that does X or Y better, you can find another instance where the reverse is true. When it comes to "free" open source type software which windows folks use lots (things like VLC, media hosts, email/web, dosbox ect ect) they are all on Linux, where they are mostly developed and superior.

If more people said no to MS... the third party developers would start supporting Linux. Its been happening with games, and slowly with stuff like high end audio apps. (some of the commercial music production software for linux is starting to get extremely good and making people forget windows junk like Abelton)

If you talk to people that use Linux to game on, its not nearly as bad as the windows boosters claim. Of all the "windows" games that won't run on Linux.... almost every single one of them is a console port that is better played on a console anyway. That is of course an opinion... I doubt I'm the only one that thinks the same way.

 

[ManofGod]

I have been Linux mainly for years... and Linux only for 3 or 4 months now. Reality is, Linux takes care of 100% of anything any average user needs. If you are a web or any type of developer really Linux has been the superior OS for a long time. For every small tick you can put down for windows because it has a third party software that does X or Y better, you can find another instance where the reverse is true. When it comes to "free" open source type software which windows folks use lots (things like VLC, media hosts, email/web, dosbox ect ect) they are all on Linux, where they are mostly developed and superior.

If more people said no to MS... the third party developers would start supporting Linux. Its been happening with games, and slowly with stuff like high end audio apps. (some of the commercial music production software for linux is starting to get extremely good and making people forget windows junk like Abelton)

If you talk to people that use Linux to game on, its not nearly as bad as the windows boosters claim. Of all the "windows" games that won't run on Linux.... almost every single one of them is a console port that is better played on a console anyway. That is of course an opinion... I doubt I'm the only one that thinks the same way.

Which is why I knew telling you to get a grip on reality would go no where. You keep making outrageous and incorrect claims hoping that if you say it enough times, it will become true. Look, feel free to use whatever you want but that does not change the way things really are. I install Windows, drivers, then Steam, open it on the first try, install a game, any game and it just works in Windows.

However, I install Ubuntu or Mint Linux, install NVidia or AMD drivers, install Steam, open it, it updates and then never runs. No, I am not doing anything wrong and the driver that is being used should never determine whether Steam will open and run or not. Heck, that is just Steam and not other programs that also have issues. Also, wine is a Windows base layer which means you still need Windows even if you have not installed it. Fact is, Microsoft could come down on the Wine type stuff and have it removed since it infringes upon their own software and patents. Clearly, they do not see the point and in fact, probably figure it is just easier to leave it be since they can sell their own software if someone wants to use it on Wine as well.

Although I have not researched it, I would not be surprised to find Crossover Office has licensing agreements with Microsoft.

 

[ChadD]

Which is why I knew telling you to get a grip on reality would go no where. You keep making outrageous and incorrect claims hoping that if you say it enough times, it will become true. Look, feel free to use whatever you want but that does not change the way things really are. I install Windows, drivers, then Steam, open it on the first try, install a game, any game and it just works in Windows.

However, I install Ubuntu or Mint Linux, install NVidia or AMD drivers, install Steam, open it, it updates and then never runs. No, I am not doing anything wrong and the driver that is being used should never determine whether Steam will open and run or not. Heck, that is just Steam and not other programs that also have issues. Also, wine is a Windows base layer which means you still need Windows even if you have not installed it. Fact is, Microsoft could come down on the Wine type stuff and have it removed since it infringes upon their own software and patents. Clearly, they do not see the point and in fact, probably figure it is just easier to leave it be since they can sell their own software if someone wants to use it on Wine as well.

Although I have not researched it, I would not be surprised to find Crossover Office has licensing agreements with Microsoft.

No idea what your doing wrong friend. I install mint (use the "use-non free" driver option) install steam... and go. No idea why you are having issues.

Wine isn't a windows based layer... Wine is an Emulator and 100% legal. It doesn't use any MS code. Period. There is no way MS could sue even if they wanted to. Emulators only become illegal if they use any copyrighted code. Which wine does not.

Having said that yes wine is a stop gap... and not something you want to rely on. If you really need wine for more then the odd OLD game or piece of tax software or something... you should likely keep a dual boot. Think of Wine as a Newer version of Dosbox... and you have the right idea. Consider Windows applications are legacy software and you have the right idea.

Every Linux user looks forward to the day when Crossover goes away, and the wine project gets one or two updates a year just like dosbox. I use wine almost never anymore... and I'm not the only one. Wine just isn't that important, everything I need is native. I have a piece of free Tax software I use every year that I use wine to run... I don't really need anything else, I play a few old games. (games that if they run in W10 run like ass anyway... they run better under wine)

 

[CommanderFrank]

So, Microsoft wants to patent something that they are probably already doing anyway......smooth.

 

[Ur_Mom]

stop abbreviating Microsoft as MSFT. It's stupid.

It's their stock symbol and a common way to reference Microsoft -- msft - Bing

My biggest concern is that it's not optional. I know some people see the benefits of this and would go for it in a heartbeat. Others put more value on their privacy. Some just don't trust Microsoft with their private data, even with no PII.

The biggest complaints I've had with Microsoft for a while now have all been due to lack of consumer choice. Start Screen? Forced with Windows 8. Windows 10, you have to hack it to turn off data sharing telemetry. Give the customer options, and more people will go for it with a lot less complaints. And when something is OFF make sure it's really off, not just on the checkbox and visual stuff...

 

[TechLarry]

Will you have to learn a bit about how your OS works to be happy with Linux... yes.
Will you have to do some thinking to build a personal version of Linux to love... yes.
Can you control exactly everything you and your machine interacts with if you find the will power to do the previous 2 things.... yes.

No time like the present to actually learn about your computer and how it works. It doesn't require a computer science degree, and there is a superior Linux solution for almost every use case. The ever shrinking number of cases where Windows is still wanted (not needed) for things like games... a Windows 7 part is extremely easy to delete later (when you realise you don't really need it) or to format with ext4 for use as general storage space.

There are some switch pains sure... but nothing you won't get over with in a few months depending how willing you are to do some reading and thinking for yourself.

Do the majority of people have time for this shit? No.

 

[Derangel]

I have been Linux mainly for years... and Linux only for 3 or 4 months now. Reality is, Linux takes care of 100% of anything any average user needs. If you are a web or any type of developer really Linux has been the superior OS for a long time. For every small tick you can put down for windows because it has a third party software that does X or Y better, you can find another instance where the reverse is true. When it comes to "free" open source type software which windows folks use lots (things like VLC, media hosts, email/web, dosbox ect ect) they are all on Linux, where they are mostly developed and superior.

If more people said no to MS... the third party developers would start supporting Linux. Its been happening with games, and slowly with stuff like high end audio apps. (some of the commercial music production software for linux is starting to get extremely good and making people forget windows junk like Abelton)

If you talk to people that use Linux to game on, its not nearly as bad as the windows boosters claim. Of all the "windows" games that won't run on Linux.... almost every single one of them is a console port that is better played on a console anyway. That is of course an opinion... I doubt I'm the only one that thinks the same way.

The vast majority of people on this forum are NOT average users. And no Linux isn't great for average users because almost all of them use prebuilt desktops or laptops. Installing Linux would mean they get no support from the builder, which is what a lot of them rely on. And most average users don't want to learn a new OS. They just want something that works and they don't have to fight with. For all the advances Linux has made it's still not a general consumer OS. It likely never will be. For people that want to look for alternatives to software they can easily find on Windows and want to deal with the potential issues that will come up desktop Linix is great. For old, shitty, hardware something like Linux Mint is really nice as long as the user wants to learn Linux and knows how to search for solutions to their problems.

As for games, that's your opinion. Unless it's a shoddy port I'd rather play games on my PC instead of a console. The only time the console version of a game is better is if the port is bad. Beyond that the PC version is always superior.

No idea what your doing wrong friend. I install mint (use the "use-non free" driver option) install steam... and go. No idea why you are having issues.

Wine isn't a windows based layer... Wine is an Emulator and 100% legal. It doesn't use any MS code. Period. There is no way MS could sue even if they wanted to. Emulators only become illegal if they use any copyrighted code. Which wine does not.

Having said that yes wine is a stop gap... and not something you want to rely on. If you really need wine for more then the odd OLD game or piece of tax software or something... you should likely keep a dual boot. Think of Wine as a Newer version of Dosbox... and you have the right idea. Consider Windows applications are legacy software and you have the right idea.

Every Linux user looks forward to the day when Crossover goes away, and the wine project gets one or two updates a year just like dosbox. I use wine almost never anymore... and I'm not the only one. Wine just isn't that important, everything I need is native. I have a piece of free Tax software I use every year that I use wine to run... I don't really need anything else, I play a few old games. (games that if they run in W10 run like ass anyway... they run better under wine)

Installing Mint on my laptop went as so:

Launch from the USB stick. Install Mint.

Wait until it finishes.

Check to make sure all my hardware works. Thankfully it does.

Download and install Steam.

Launch Steam.

Wait....Wait....Wait.

Steam isn't launching.

Restart laptop.

Try again. Nothing.

Uninstall and reinstall Steam.

Still nothing.

Look online and find a set of Terminal commands needed to make Steam run.

Use the Terminal and the commands. Hey, Steam launches now.

Bookmark the page in case that happens again.

Using the Terminal didn't bother me, I learned DOS almost entirely on my own when I was 8, but I found it amusing that something like Steam still required using it to make it work and that it was not an uncommon problem.

 

[kac77]

The vast majority of people on this forum are NOT average users. And no Linux isn't great for average users because almost all of them use prebuilt desktops or laptops. Installing Linux would mean they get no support from the builder, which is what a lot of them rely on. And most average users don't want to learn a new OS. They just want something that works and they don't have to fight with. For all the advances Linux has made it's still not a general consumer OS. It likely never will be. For people that want to look for alternatives to software they can easily find on Windows and want to deal with the potential issues that will come up desktop Linix is great. For old, shitty, hardware something like Linux Mint is really nice as long as the user wants to learn Linux and knows how to search for solutions to their problems.

As for games, that's your opinion. Unless it's a shoddy port I'd rather play games on my PC instead of a console. The only time the console version of a game is better is if the port is bad. Beyond that the PC version is always superior.



Installing Mint on my laptop went as so:

Launch from the USB stick. Install Mint.

Wait until it finishes.

Check to make sure all my hardware works. Thankfully it does.

Download and install Steam.

Launch Steam.

Wait....Wait....Wait.

Steam isn't launching.

Restart laptop.

Try again. Nothing.

Uninstall and reinstall Steam.

Still nothing.

Look online and find a set of Terminal commands needed to make Steam run.

Use the Terminal and the commands. Hey, Steam launches now.

Bookmark the page in case that happens again.

Using the Terminal didn't bother me, I learned DOS almost entirely on my own when I was 8, but I found it amusing that something like Steam still required using it to make it work and that it was not an uncommon problem.

If these were the steps you took then your problem is that you didn't install the GPU drivers. Windows would do the same without them.

 

[Deleted member 278999]

Duplicitous with Windows 10.

Was about to say, I believe the spying is already a "feature"!

It's their stock symbol and a common way to reference Microsoft -- msft - Bing

My biggest concern is that it's not optional. I know some people see the benefits of this and would go for it in a heartbeat. Others put more value on their privacy. Some just don't trust Microsoft with their private data, even with no PII.

The biggest complaints I've had with Microsoft for a while now have all been due to lack of consumer choice. Start Screen? Forced with Windows 8. Windows 10, you have to hack it to turn off data sharing telemetry. Give the customer options, and more people will go for it with a lot less complaints. And when something is OFF make sure it's really off, not just on the checkbox and visual stuff...

I was thinking that. Didn't bother to look and should have. I was thinking that it was more m$oft / microshaft crap. I'm sorry arentol.

You're right on privacy options. Google for instance now notifies you within the application store what an application has access to in layman's terms which is great but they completely breeze by the fact that they have that data to begin with.

By default people should have a choice in what they share with public and private entities, and while you could say that they do by not using the software that's just not much of an option.

I'd be perfectly happy with DOS and extensions.

In a lot of ways I feel like software is being dumbed down a lot. It's troubling because these things contain features below the surface which you don't have access to until it's too late. They've got your information and have built a profile before you get to grasp what they're doing with it. It's not like a snake that gives a warning or a person that you can get to know over time. I suppose it gets down to treating software like other people things with suspicion and better caution.

Information has become something very precious and personal. Not because of what people might find out, but because of what can be done with it.

 

[Derangel]

If these were the steps you took then your problem is that you didn't install the GPU drivers. Windows would do the same without them.

It's a mobility 4250, considering it's age I figured whatever default drivers Mint has would be fine. The solution I found didn't include installing drivers either. It involved putting this into Terminal:

find ~/.steam/root/ \( -name "libgcc_s.so*" -o -name "libstdc++.so*" -o -name "libxcb.so*" \) -print -delete

That worked perfectly well.

 

[ChadD]

And most average users don't want to learn a new OS.

No doubt, but hasn't MS proven they are going to force them to do just that every 3 years or so. Seems to be how its went so far. They change the start bars, they move things around, they change the management tools, they destroy drivers (so best ensure what ever you buy is going to get updated drivers for new versions of windows).

Seems to me MS is forcing people to relearn all the time anyway.

I won't disagree with everything else you typed... I admit my gaming opinions are just that. I know most people don't view Linux as a great gaming platform at this point, I just have to argue that it isn't nearly as bad as some MS boosters contend.

Someone else said it... doesn't sound like you installed with third party GPU drivers from the start.

Mint is a fav new user distro because off the "Install using non-free driver" option that most distros don't have. You can install the manufacture GPU drivers after the fact of course... as it seems you had to do. With Mint if you install it with non free you shouldn't ever have to worry about it, mint will just download the newest version of the NV/AMD/INTEL drivers whenever you update. I sort of wish Mint would just make that the default option... but ya Linux people, most don't like to be forced to use closed source stuff.

 

[ChadD]

It's a mobility 4250, considering it's age I figured whatever default drivers Mint has would be fine. The solution I found didn't include installing drivers either. It involved putting this into Terminal: That worked perfectly well.

ok that's a strange error for Mint... glad you found a solution. Issues with libs doesn't often hit mint, Steam is part of the base distro if I remember correctly so they should have the 32bit libs covered. (I am still assuming a GPU driver change didn't install 32bit stuff or something odd) In general most of the issues you find with libs and steam are going to be for distros like arch which are bare bones from the start.

 

[Derangel]

No doubt, but hasn't MS proven they are going to force them to do just that every 3 years or so. Seems to be how its went so far. They change the start bars, they move things around, they change the management tools, they destroy drivers (so best ensure what ever you buy is going to get updated drivers for new versions of windows).

Seems to me MS is forcing people to relearn all the time anyway.

I won't disagree with everything else you typed... I admit my gaming opinions are just that. I know most people don't view Linux as a great gaming platform at this point, I just have to argue that it isn't nearly as bad as some MS boosters contend.

Someone else said it... doesn't sound like you installed with third party GPU drivers from the start.

Mint is a fav new user distro because off the "Install using non-free driver" option that most distros don't have. You can install the manufacture GPU drivers after the fact of course... as it seems you had to do. With Mint if you install it with non free you shouldn't ever have to worry about it, mint will just download the newest version of the NV/AMD/INTEL drivers whenever you update.

MS' changes are why Stardock is able to make so much money selling things like Start8 or whatever the Win10 version is called. People hear about that and buy it to make their new OS look like the old OS.

I grabbed the Xfce (either that or KDE) version of Mint 18 since it was supposed to be the one that is easiest on old hardware like my laptop. It's weak enough that Win10 was chugging so I wanted something super light on hardware.

 

[Derangel]

ok that's a strange error for Mint... glad you found a solution. Issues with libs doesn't often hit mint, Steam is part of the base distro if I remember correctly so they should have the 32bit libs covered. (I am still assuming a GPU driver change didn't install 32bit stuff or something odd) In general most of the issues you find with libs and steam are going to be for distros like arch which are bare bones from the start.

Yeah, Steam was the only issue I ran across. Only other time I've had to mess with the Terminal was by choice and that was grabbing command line based temp monitor since that seemed to be the best solution that I found with a quick Google search.

 

[sadsteve]

Do the majority of people have time for this shit? No.

Yeah, they'll miss Dancing with the Stars!!

 

[tetris42]

I won't disagree with everything else you typed... I admit my gaming opinions are just that. I know most people don't view Linux as a great gaming platform at this point, I just have to argue that it isn't nearly as bad as some MS boosters contend.

Since you keep bringing up gaming, I have a question:

On basically any pre-DX9 games, and many, MANY DX9 ones, you can force antialiasing and anisotropic filtering through the videocard drivers, whether the game natively supports it or not. In DX5 - DX8, you turn it on and it's done. In DX9, you often have to activate special AA flags, but you can have it working more times than not. Is there any way to force antialiasing in WINE, or are you pretty much at the mercy of whatever the game developer decided to include?

 

[sadsteve]

Windows 10 and stuff like this put me over the threshold for using Linux. I'd been playing with it for years but never did anything serious with it. A few months after testing Windows 10 on my laptop (and finding out about the tracking and such) I wiped the drive and installed Mint Linux (Cinnamon flavor). Been almost a year now and I'm very happy with Mint. All my normal computing needs are met. Just last Thursday, I setup my main machine to dual boot Windows 8.1 and Mint. Mint will handle all my normal computing needs (browsing, email, docs, programming, etc), Windows 8.1 will handle games and Photoshop. Next weekend I'll be putting Mint on the wifey's laptop. She basicallly just uses Firefox, Thunderbird and Libre Office so the conversion to Linux shouldn't be a problem.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Apple forces user to buy new hardware every few years for no reason other than to make money, and yet people line up for days and hours to do so, that should already prove to us that people are "mindless" and thus why MS know they can push this and get away with it. People want convenience over privacy.

 

[ChadD]

Since you keep bringing up gaming, I have a question:

On basically any pre-DX9 games, and many, MANY DX9 ones, you can force antialiasing and anisotropic filtering through the videocard drivers, whether the game natively supports it or not. In DX5 - DX8, you turn it on and it's done. In DX9, you often have to activate special AA flags, but you can have it working more times than not. Is there any way to force antialiasing in WINE, or are you pretty much at the mercy of whatever the game developer decided to include?

I can only really speak to Nvidia as its what I have been running the last few cycles. The nvidia drivers install a Nvidia X server settings, it looks just like the windows version. You can force all the opengl stuff through that like AA, filtering, vsyncs ect. I can't say it will work 100% with every single older DX title in wine. It has worked for a few of the games I have run. (also points to 2 facts about wine... wine calls opengl which makes it both legal and slightly slower.... if your using it to run old DX9 and older games the small speed drop isn't the end of the world)

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Looks like I'm done with Microsoft when 7 hits end of life.

Its a weird feeling, I've always been a Microsoft fan. I even stood up for Vista with performance benchmarks and tried to explain the importance of privilege escalation/UAC to the ignorant masses. Things have just gotten ridiculously stupid with 8 and 10 though. I'm done waiting for a 7 successor, it's not going to happen.