Microsoft Is Now More Valuable than Alphabet by about $10 Billion

[Megalith]

While Microsoft is often criticized these days, the company must be doing something right, as it has managed to rise up among the ranks to become the world’s third most valuable organization. Microsoft is now worth $749 billion, $10 billion more than what Google parent company Alphabet is worth.

Microsoft's latest rally has been sparked by growth in its cloud computing business, which is bigger than Google's though it still trails Amazon Web Services. In March, Microsoft reorganized its Windows and Devices Group and moved its engineering resources into other units, including one focusing on cloud and artificial intelligence.

 

[d8lock]

Having a monopoly must be nice.

 

[nEo717]

When we have a lot, the more we want, is a lot more than we have...
I love it when these uber wealthy companies start complaining about paying their low end workers so/too much money (seeing their huge profits indeed weights my compassion, or lack thereof for them) - of course I get though (to an extent), large companies like this do need to bank roll a ton of money.

 

[Delicieuxz]

While Microsoft is often criticized these days, the company must be doing something right

Nope.

It's because Microsoft fired many, many thousands of its workers and reformed its business around the harvesting and selling of personal user data. Google and Facebook can collect data from people's online activities, but Microsoft collects all that and also collects massive amounts of data from everything that a person does in their offline OS environment, as well as from all things people do with MS services like Microsoft Store, Edge, Bing / Cortana, One Drive, Skype, etc. Microsoft's products are a conglomerate of data-harvesting utilities.

Mining and selling personal data is the modern-day gold rush, and Microsoft is doing it more extensively and at a lower level (through core OS integration) out of all the tech giants, and so is able to harvest the most data of all and therefore make the most money from selling personal user data.

There's nothing right about it. It's invasion of people's personal property (their offline OS space) and theft of personal user data, which belongs to the people whose PC hardware, software licenses, electricity, processing capacity, system hosting capacity, time, and activity created that data.

 

[KazeoHin]

Nope.

It's because Microsoft fired many, many thousands of its workers and reformed its business around the harvesting and selling of personal user data. Google and Facebook can collect data from people's online activities, but Microsoft collects all that and also collects massive amounts of data from everything that a person does in their offline OS environment, as well as from all things people do with MS services like Microsoft Store, Edge, Bing / Cortana, One Drive, Skype, etc. Microsoft's products are a conglomerate of data-harvesting utilities.

Mining and selling personal data is the modern-day gold rush, and Microsoft is doing it more extensively and at a lower level (through core OS integration) out of all the tech giants, and so is able to harvest the most data of all and therefore make the most money from selling personal user data.

There's nothing right about it. It's invasion of people's personal property (their offline OS space) and theft of personal user data, which belongs to the people who PC hardware, software licenses, electricity, processing capacity, time, and activity created that data.

In business, the only morality that matters is the one that makes your shareholders richer.

 

[Mchart]

Nope.

It's because Microsoft fired many, many thousands of its workers and reformed its business around the harvesting and selling of personal user data. Google and Facebook can collect data from people's online activities, but Microsoft collects all that and also collects massive amounts of data from everything that a person does in their offline OS environment, as well as from all things people do with MS services like Microsoft Store, Edge, Bing / Cortana, One Drive, Skype, etc. Microsoft's products are a conglomerate of data-harvesting utilities.

Mining and selling personal data is the modern-day gold rush, and Microsoft is doing it more extensively and at a lower level (through core OS integration) out of all the tech giants, and so is able to harvest the most data of all and therefore make the most money from selling personal user data.

There's nothing right about it. It's invasion of people's personal property (their offline OS space) and theft of personal user data, which belongs to the people who PC hardware, software licenses, electricity, processing capacity, time, and activity created that data.

This is the main reason why my next hardware purchase will be Apple. As much as I hate doing it Microsoft is forcing my hand even though I hate the limitation of Apple hardware. Although I will say that I am really curious to see if Apple is able to crush Intel in regards to performance/security with the recent news of them ditching Intel for all their hardware in 2020. This would give more reason to move back to Apple for a desktop assuming Apple also updates the Mac Pro to a more friendly package then the trash can.

 

[ProfessorUtopia]

...Microsoft fired many, many thousands of its workers and reformed its business around the harvesting and selling of personal user data. Google and Facebook can collect data from people's online activities, but Microsoft collects all that and also collects massive amounts of data from everything that a person does in their offline OS environment, as well as from all things people do with MS services like Microsoft Store, Edge, Bing / Cortana, One Drive, Skype, etc. Microsoft's products are a conglomerate of data-harvesting utilities.

Mining and selling personal data is the modern-day gold rush, and Microsoft is doing it more extensively and at a lower level (through core OS integration) out of all the tech giants, and so is able to harvest the most data of all and therefore make the most money from selling personal user data...

[citation needed]

 

[Simmonz]

Money doesn't make the company or it's employees any less of a piece of shit.

 

[Delicieuxz]

[citation needed]

You didn't specify what for, so here are a bunch.

Since Satya Nadella took over as its CEO, Microsoft has fired many, many thousands of its staff (notably many from the OS testing department):

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2014...hy-did-microsoft-lay-off-programmatic-testers
http://www.businessinsider.com/huge-layoff-for-microsoft-employees-too-2014-7
http://www.businessinsider.com/about-700-microsoft-employees-to-be-laid-off-sources-say-2017-1
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/06/microsoft-will-layoff-thousands-of-employees.html
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/microsoft-makes-new-round-layoffs-across-multiple-business-units/
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-its-sure-got-a-funny-definition-of-that-word


Microsoft is harvesting (AKA stealing) excessive amounts of personal user data at even the lowest data-harvesting setting in Windows 10 Home and Pro. Precisely, there are around 3,518 individual data streams occurring at the "Basic" setting in Windows 10 Home and Pro, not counting additional data streams from connected Microsoft services such as Skype, Edge, Cortana / Bing, Microsoft Store, etc:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...n-not-pretty/?do=findComment&comment=11198231


Microsoft sells the data that they harvest from people:

Does anyone really need to be told that Microsoft is harvesting all this data for profit, and not because Microsoft has a data fetish? Microsoft openly states that they sell it: https://hardforum.com/threads/windo...mate-changelog.1957131/page-2#post-1043553854

That was the reason why "free upgrades" to Windows 10 were given away to Windows 7 and 8 owners, and for so long (including long after the official "free upgrade" period ended): To get as many people as possible plugged into Microsoft's data-harvesting farm.


All of the data that Microsoft harvests in Windows 10 is personal data and is personally-identifiable data, with none of it being anonymous. All of it is associated with the PC that it came from:

"all the telemetry data collected by Microsoft are indeed personal data, and certainly not anonymous, despite Microsoft's preferred view that the collected information count as merely technical system data" - The Dutch DPA following their year-long investigation into Microsoft's data-harvesting in Windows 10 which included monitoring every piece of data that was taken by the OS in that time along with the associated identifiers for all data sent.

 

[ProfessorUtopia]

I don’t disagree with your points of Microsoft collecting too much data and not giving users enough control over diagnostic data collection, but nothing you provided supports your claim Microsoft sells user data, and certainly not that “They say so.”

Forgive my crassness, but citing your own post from the Doofus Tech Tips forums, in which you deliberately misinterpret MS policies and single Dutch government agency’s report, doesn't quite pass muster for proof of your extraordinary claims.

It’s important to be vigilant, to question, and to hold large corporations feet to the fire on things of this nature, but making shit up doesn’t help the cause of accountability.

 

[Delicieuxz]

I don’t disagree with your points of Microsoft collecting too much data and not giving users enough control over diagnostic data collection, but nothing you provided supports your claim Microsoft sells user data, and certainly not that “They say so.”

But Microsoft do explicitly say so. And even without being spoken, the business model is clear.

"The Microsoft Data Management Service routes information to internal cloud storage, where it's compiled into business reports for analysis and research."

"However, we do share business reports with partners that include aggregated, anonymous telemetry information."

Forgive my crassness, but citing your own post from the Doofus Tech Tips forums, in which you deliberately misinterpret MS policies and single Dutch government agency’s report, doesn't quite pass muster for proof of your extraordinary claims.

I didn't misrepresent anything, let alone deliberately. The volume of Microsoft's data-harvesting in Windows 10 Home and Pro at the "Basic" settings comes directly from Microsoft. Feel free to peruse the list of data streams Microsoft harvest from at the "Basic" setting at your convenience: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/privacy/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields

The Dutch DPA's investigation is comprehensive, taking over 1 year to do, and using Microsoft's own data analysis tool to monitor which data is harvested, and with what personally-identifying labels. The Dutch DPA's report also wasn't isolated, but was conducted with correspondence between other EU DPAs.

It’s important to be vigilant, to question, and to hold large corporations feet to the fire on things of this nature, but making shit up doesn’t help the cause of accountability.

I think you might be an example of a frog in boiling water that is doing their best to rationalize that the water isn't boiling because they're afraid someone is going to 'gotcha' them for falling for a conspiracy.

 

[Shmee]

You didn't specify what for, so here are a bunch.

Since Satya Nadella took over as its CEO, Microsoft has fired many, many thousands of its staff (notably many from the OS testing department):

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2014...hy-did-microsoft-lay-off-programmatic-testers
http://www.businessinsider.com/huge-layoff-for-microsoft-employees-too-2014-7
http://www.businessinsider.com/about-700-microsoft-employees-to-be-laid-off-sources-say-2017-1
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/06/microsoft-will-layoff-thousands-of-employees.html
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/microsoft-makes-new-round-layoffs-across-multiple-business-units/
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-its-sure-got-a-funny-definition-of-that-word


Microsoft is harvesting (AKA stealing) excessive amounts of personal user data at even the lowest data-harvesting setting in Windows 10 Home and Pro. Precisely, there are around 3,518 individual data streams occurring at the "Basic" setting in Windows 10 Home and Pro, not counting additional data streams from connected Microsoft services such as Skype, Edge, Cortana / Bing, Microsoft Store, etc:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...n-not-pretty/?do=findComment&comment=11198231


Microsoft sells the data that they harvest from people:

Does anyone really need to be told that Microsoft is harvesting all this data for profit, and not because Microsoft has a data fetish? Microsoft openly states that they sell it: https://hardforum.com/threads/windo...mate-changelog.1957131/page-2#post-1043553854

That was the reason why "free upgrades" to Windows 10 were given away to Windows 7 and 8 owners, and for so long (including long after the official "free upgrade" period ended): To get as many people as possible plugged into Microsoft's data-harvesting farm.


All of the data that Microsoft harvests in Windows 10 is personal data and is personally-identifiable data, with none of it being anonymous. All of it is associated with the PC that it came from:

"all the telemetry data collected by Microsoft are indeed personal data, and certainly not anonymous, despite Microsoft's preferred view that the collected information count as merely technical system data" - The Dutch DPA following their year-long investigation into Microsoft's data-harvesting in Windows 10 which included monitoring every piece of data that was taken by the OS in that time along with the associated identifiers for all data sent.

Or you could read the quarterly earnings and see that Microsoft Server, Azure, and Office 365 make up most of their profit, and that Windows 10 was shoved in an other bucket with Xbox and Surface. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/earnings/FY-2018-Q3/press-release-webcast

 

[Delicieuxz]

Or you could read the quarterly earnings and see that Microsoft Server, Azure, and Office 365 make up most of their profit, and that Windows 10 was shoved in an other bucket with Xbox and Surface. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/earnings/FY-2018-Q3/press-release-webcast

Microsoft's data-harvesting is not limited to Windows, but is integrated into all Microsoft products - including Microsoft Server, Azure, and Office 365. So, profit from data wouldn't be simply classified under Windows.

I might guess that profits from data-sharing could be classified under Intelligent Cloud revenue.

 

[Trimlock]

I don’t disagree with your points of Microsoft collecting too much data and not giving users enough control over diagnostic data collection, but nothing you provided supports your claim Microsoft sells user data, and certainly not that “They say so.”

Forgive my crassness, but citing your own post from the Doofus Tech Tips forums, in which you deliberately misinterpret MS policies and single Dutch government agency’s report, doesn't quite pass muster for proof of your extraordinary claims.

It’s important to be vigilant, to question, and to hold large corporations feet to the fire on things of this nature, but making shit up doesn’t help the cause of accountability.

Usually making shit up prevents us from seeing the bigger evils a corporation is doing.

One of my biggest pet peeves against MS right now is them removing features, even its hardly used as well as them borking my private network settings each patch. Lets fix that first than this looney escapade about user data, yell at Google/alphabet for that, at least we know they sell data.

 

[ProfessorUtopia]

I think you might be an example of a frog in boiling water that is doing their best to rationalize that the water isn't boiling because they're afraid someone is going to 'gotcha' them for falling for a conspiracy.

 

[Delicieuxz]

Usually making shit up prevents us from seeing the bigger evils a corporation is doing.

One of my biggest pet peeves against MS right now is them removing features, even its hardly used as well as them borking my private network settings each patch. Lets fix that first than this looney escapade about user data, yell at Google/alphabet for that, at least we know they sell data.

We know that Facebook, Google, Twitter, Microsoft, and others all participate in the same business of selling data.

Issues with companies are not 'one or the other' matters - as many of them that exist, exist. So, feel free to pursue all of them.


I would guess that sold access to reports based on harvested data could be a part of Microsoft's Intelligent Cloud revenue, which accounted for $7.9 billion in Q3 FY 2018, as reports for that cloud-based data could be construed as one of Microsoft's cloud services.

 

[H2R2P2]

You didn't specify what for, so here are a bunch.

Since Satya Nadella took over as its CEO, Microsoft has fired many, many thousands of its staff (notably many from the OS testing department):

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2014...hy-did-microsoft-lay-off-programmatic-testers
http://www.businessinsider.com/huge-layoff-for-microsoft-employees-too-2014-7
http://www.businessinsider.com/about-700-microsoft-employees-to-be-laid-off-sources-say-2017-1
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/06/microsoft-will-layoff-thousands-of-employees.html
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/microsoft-makes-new-round-layoffs-across-multiple-business-units/
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-its-sure-got-a-funny-definition-of-that-word


Microsoft is harvesting (AKA stealing) excessive amounts of personal user data at even the lowest data-harvesting setting in Windows 10 Home and Pro. Precisely, there are around 3,518 individual data streams occurring at the "Basic" setting in Windows 10 Home and Pro, not counting additional data streams from connected Microsoft services such as Skype, Edge, Cortana / Bing, Microsoft Store, etc:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...n-not-pretty/?do=findComment&comment=11198231


Microsoft sells the data that they harvest from people:

Does anyone really need to be told that Microsoft is harvesting all this data for profit, and not because Microsoft has a data fetish? Microsoft openly states that they sell it: https://hardforum.com/threads/windo...mate-changelog.1957131/page-2#post-1043553854

That was the reason why "free upgrades" to Windows 10 were given away to Windows 7 and 8 owners, and for so long (including long after the official "free upgrade" period ended): To get as many people as possible plugged into Microsoft's data-harvesting farm.


All of the data that Microsoft harvests in Windows 10 is personal data and is personally-identifiable data, with none of it being anonymous. All of it is associated with the PC that it came from:

"all the telemetry data collected by Microsoft are indeed personal data, and certainly not anonymous, despite Microsoft's preferred view that the collected information count as merely technical system data" - The Dutch DPA following their year-long investigation into Microsoft's data-harvesting in Windows 10 which included monitoring every piece of data that was taken by the OS in that time along with the associated identifiers for all data sent.

I can also vouch from personal experience as to the validity of Delicieuxz said... I worked at Microsoft for 10 years and its 110% accurate.

 

[Sycraft]

Having a monopoly must be nice.

How do they have a monopoly? They only can have a monopoly if you believe that Linux systems (including Android) and Apple are not competitors. For the server and embedded markets that's obviously false, you see tons of Linux there. Linux is the king of embedded and has by far the largest part of the market. In the server space Windows is huge, but so is Linux. For the mobile space, well MS isn't even a competitor. Windows phones have just gone nowhere, that is all Google and Apple. On the desktop Windows is by far the big kid on the block, but are you really trying to claim Apple isn't a force? They have a small piece of the market to be sure, but they are a real competitor.

We can go on like this for other spaces like the cloud (Azure is second to Amazon and Google is also big in that space), gaming (The Xbox 1 is getting handed its ass by the PS4 and Switch) and so on.

When you start whining "but but Monopoly!" it just sounds dated, like you haven't updated your talking points in 20 years.

 

[d8lock]

How do they have a monopoly? They only can have a monopoly if you believe that Linux systems (including Android) and Apple are not competitors. For the server and embedded markets that's obviously false, you see tons of Linux there. Linux is the king of embedded and has by far the largest part of the market. In the server space Windows is huge, but so is Linux. For the mobile space, well MS isn't even a competitor. Windows phones have just gone nowhere, that is all Google and Apple. On the desktop Windows is by far the big kid on the block, but are you really trying to claim Apple isn't a force? They have a small piece of the market to be sure, but they are a real competitor.

We can go on like this for other spaces like the cloud (Azure is second to Amazon and Google is also big in that space), gaming (The Xbox 1 is getting handed its ass by the PS4 and Switch) and so on.

When you start whining "but but Monopoly!" it just sounds dated, like you haven't updated your talking points in 20 years.

Go down to your local best buy or anywhere that sells electronics and tell me what operating system is on every single laptop and desktop.

 

[MRAB54]

Nope.

It's because Microsoft fired many, many thousands of its workers and reformed its business around the harvesting and selling of personal user data. Google and Facebook can collect data from people's online activities, but Microsoft collects all that and also collects massive amounts of data from everything that a person does in their offline OS environment, as well as from all things people do with MS services like Microsoft Store, Edge, Bing / Cortana, One Drive, Skype, etc. Microsoft's products are a conglomerate of data-harvesting utilities.

Mining and selling personal data is the modern-day gold rush, and Microsoft is doing it more extensively and at a lower level (through core OS integration) out of all the tech giants, and so is able to harvest the most data of all and therefore make the most money from selling personal user data.

There's nothing right about it. It's invasion of people's personal property (their offline OS space) and theft of personal user data, which belongs to the people whose PC hardware, software licenses, electricity, processing capacity, system hosting capacity, time, and activity created that data.

What information, specifically, is Microsoft harvesting and selling of users of Windows? Is this just supposition or fact? I'd like some hard facts to base my opinion on, seems to be lacking these days.

 

[Sycraft]

Go down to your local best buy or anywhere that sells electronics and tell me what operating system is on every single laptop and desktop.

Ummm, not Windows because the Best Buy here sells Macs. Of course most of the retail sales of Macs are in their own store because Apple is interested in having total control over their market, but they sell at other retailers too.

Are you trying to claim that Apple is not a $930 Billion dollar company with stores all over the world?

 

[Rizen]

Ummm, not Windows because the Best Buy here sells Macs. Of course most of the retail sales of Macs are in their own store because Apple is interested in having total control over their market, but they sell at other retailers too.

Are you trying to claim that Apple is not a $930 Billion dollar company with stores all over the world?

That's great and all but OS X has 5.89% market share in the OS space, so Apple is basically negligible in terms of computer usage (separate from smart phone usage, obviously).

 

[Simmonz]

That's great and all but OS X has 5.89% market share in the OS space, so Apple is basically negligible in terms of computer usage (separate from smart phone usage, obviously).

The person they responded to was wrong no matter how you want to move the goal posts after.

 

[Trimlock]

Go down to your local best buy or anywhere that sells electronics and tell me what operating system is on every single laptop and desktop.

Best Buy selling something doesn’t dictate a monopoly.

Also I don’t think you’ve been to a Best Buy recently, they have almost no desktops anymore and their pc selection for laptops is WAY smaller than the Apple section. Hell even Samsung’s mobile area is bigger.

 

[Lakados]

This is the main reason why my next hardware purchase will be Apple. As much as I hate doing it Microsoft is forcing my hand even though I hate the limitation of Apple hardware. Although I will say that I am really curious to see if Apple is able to crush Intel in regards to performance/security with the recent news of them ditching Intel for all their hardware in 2020. This would give more reason to move back to Apple for a desktop assuming Apple also updates the Mac Pro to a more friendly package then the trash can.

As somebody who runs a lot of Apple hardware I can assure that OSX transmits just as much if not more telemetry data than Win10, and iOS sends way more back than any of the Android devices we have.

 

[Mchart]

As somebody who runs a lot of Apple hardware I can assure that OSX transmits just as much if not more telemetry data than Win10, and iOS sends way more back than any of the Android devices we have.

You’re correct - But Apple is only using that info internal. They aren’t selling it.

 

[Lakados]

Microsoft's data-harvesting is not limited to Windows, but is integrated into all Microsoft products - including Microsoft Server, Azure, and Office 365. So, profit from data wouldn't be simply classified under Windows.

I might guess that profits from data-sharing could be classified under Intelligent Cloud revenue.

As somebody who runs a lot of windows server 2012r2 and 2016 installs I am yet to see any telemetry being sent back to MS outside of crash and hardware reports. Those reports contain hardware info like model numbers with revision and occasionally firmware versions when available and the driver version info and it is only sent when I tell them to check for updates, outside that I have never seen a single one of my servers phone home to give MS any data about what they do or when they do it. Same goes for the 500’ish Win10 enterprise installs. Infact the Win10 installs send back even less data as they don’t send crash reports and most of them pull their updates from other computers on the network.

 

[Lakados]

You’re correct - But Apple is only using that info internal. They aren’t selling it.

I have never heard Apple specifically say that they don’t share or sell their data with 3’rd parties. I fact due to the nature of their iTunes integration with iOS and OSX I would think they have to share that data with their vast number of entertainment partners.

My PaloAlto logs show Apple sending a lot of advertisement data at the iPads mostly from the free apps but those use Apples add API so Apple has to be sharing data with advertisers in some way.

 

[Lakados]

Excerpts from MS, Google, and Apple concerning their data collecting and sharing policies.

Apple:
At times Apple may make certain personal information available to strategic partners that work with Apple to provide products and services, or that help Apple market to customers.

Google’s:
We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google when we have your consent to do so. We require opt-in consent for the sharing of any sensitive personal information.

Microsoft’s:
We share your personal data with your consent or as necessary to complete any transaction or provide any service you have requested or authorized. We also share data with Microsoft-controlled affiliates and subsidiaries; with vendors working on our behalf; when required by law or to respond to legal process; to protect our customers; to protect lives; to maintain the security of our services; and to protect the rights or property of Microsoft

 

[Delicieuxz]

What information, specifically, is Microsoft harvesting and selling of users of Windows? Is this just supposition or fact? I'd like some hard facts to base my opinion on, seems to be lacking these days.

The data that Microsoft collects in Windows 10 at the Basic and Full settings is documented by Microsoft.

Here is Microsoft's documentation for what Windows 10 collects at the "Basic" data-collection setting, which is the lowest setting that is available in Home and Pro editions: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/privacy/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields

Each item with a dot next to it is a unique data field that is collected, and there are over 3,500 individual points of data listed on that page. That page doesn't include documentation any of the telemetry that Microsoft gathers from its services, such as Edge, Cortana / Bing, Skype, etc.

You can jump through the page to see the type of data that is being gathered at the Basic setting. The data harvested at the Basic setting contains meticulous information on system hardware, system usage, license information, program installation and usage information, account information, update information, some integrated services information, camera information, battery information, DRM information, network information, settings information, system reboot information, errors, and a lot more. Altogether, it creates a comprehensive picture of your activities on your system and in your offline Windows environment.


And this looks like an abstract of the data that Windows 10 collects at the "Full" setting: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/privacy/windows-diagnostic-data


The specific presentation of that data in the business reports that Microsoft says it provides to its business partners would be known by those who receive those reports. I haven't become aware of one being made public.

As somebody who runs a lot of windows server 2012r2 and 2016 installs I am yet to see any telemetry being sent back to MS outside of crash and hardware reports. Those reports contain hardware info like model numbers with revision and occasionally firmware versions when available and the driver version info and it is only sent when I tell them to check for updates, outside that I have never seen a single one of my servers phone home to give MS any data about what they do or when they do it. Same goes for the 500’ish Win10 enterprise installs. Infact the Win10 installs send back even less data as they don’t send crash reports and most of them pull their updates from other computers on the network.

The telemetry setting for those systems would have been set to Security (as in security-only, and no general usage data), which is a level lower than Basic. Home and Pro editions of Windows 10 do not have access to the Security data-collection setting, and the lowest setting for Home and Pro is "Basic", which still collects a lot of data.

There are also some other things that can be done to mitigate data transmission to Microsoft:

https://encrypt-the-planet.com/windows-10-anti-spy-host-file/

https://encrypt-the-planet.com/completely-disable-windows-10-telemetry/

I have never heard Apple specifically say that they don’t share or sell their data with 3’rd parties. I fact due to the nature of their iTunes integration with iOS and OSX I would think they have to share that data with their vast number of entertainment partners.

My PaloAlto logs show Apple sending a lot of advertisement data at the iPads mostly from the free apps but those use Apples add API so Apple has to be sharing data with advertisers in some way.

Tim Cook has has made statements, including recently, that Apple isn't monetizing customer data:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...stomers-are-not-its-products-unlike-facebook/

"We’ve never believed that these detailed profiles of people that have incredibly deep personal information that is patched together from several sources should exist"

"The truth is, we could make a ton of money if we monetized our customer—if our customer was our product. We’ve elected not to do that."


http://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-privacy-page-tim-cook/

Our business model is very straightforward: We sell great products. We don’t build a profile based on your email content or web browsing habits to sell to advertisers. We don’t “monetize” the information you store on your iPhone or in iCloud. And we don’t read your email or your messages to get information to market to you. Our software and services are designed to make our devices better. Plain and simple.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ok-calls-for-more-regulations-on-data-privacy

“The ability of anyone to know what you’ve been browsing about for years, who your contacts are, who their contacts are, things you like and dislike and every intimate detail of your life -- from my own point of view it shouldn’t exist.”


https://finance.yahoo.com/video/apple-ceo-tim-cook-collect-144639399.html

“We reject the excuse that getting the most out of technology means trading away your right to privacy. So we choose a different path: Collecting as little of your data as possible. Being thoughtful and respectful when it’s in our care. Because we know it belongs to you. In every way, at every turn, the question we ask ourselves is not ‘what can we do’ but ‘what should we do’.”


I hope that Tim Cook will advocate for strict regulation of data collection.

 

[rudy]

This is the main reason why my next hardware purchase will be Apple. As much as I hate doing it Microsoft is forcing my hand even though I hate the limitation of Apple hardware. Although I will say that I am really curious to see if Apple is able to crush Intel in regards to performance/security with the recent news of them ditching Intel for all their hardware in 2020. This would give more reason to move back to Apple for a desktop assuming Apple also updates the Mac Pro to a more friendly package then the trash can.

Apple either is or will do it soon. I had a friend have her siri auto complete a search for something very personal that was only talked about between humans meaning the iPhone was listening. I have heard of many anecdotes like this.

 

[katanaD]

one thing i have never been able to figure out is WHY there is no real competitor to MS outlook. Yes, there is openoffice/libre office, and they are good for the word/excel type stuff, but NO effective alternative exists for email

 

[Mchart]

Apple either is or will do it soon. I had a friend have her siri auto complete a search for something very personal that was only talked about between humans meaning the iPhone was listening. I have heard of many anecdotes like this.

I don’t see this as them doing it soon.

This is just Apple investing more in their own walled garden of cloud services.

It’s why Apple generally has the worst AI/cloud stuff by a generation. They have to keep all data/services internal unlike Google who can farm all the data out.

 

[rudy]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...-ad-business-reversing-creepy-stance-wsj.html

If you think anything Tim cook says is anything more than lip service I got a bridge to sell you. BTW apple made a billion in ad revenue in 2017.

 

[d8lock]

Ummm, not Windows because the Best Buy here sells Macs. Of course most of the retail sales of Macs are in their own store because Apple is interested in having total control over their market, but they sell at other retailers too.

Are you trying to claim that Apple is not a $930 Billion dollar company with stores all over the world?

No, I'm saying that Microsoft basically has a monopoly of the desktop OS market. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[ZergSolo]

No Thanks to Satya, all he did was lay off thousands of hard working Americans and bring in as many H1-B Visa's as he could.

 

[Sycraft]

No, I'm saying that Microsoft basically has a monopoly of the desktop OS market. Don't put words in my mouth.

And I'm asking how that is the case, given that Apple is a competitor in that space, and not at all a small one. They are the #4 desktop hardware provider in the world (HP, Lenovo, and Dell being the top 3). They do not run Windows.

 

[d8lock]

And I'm asking how that is the case, given that Apple is a competitor in that space, and not at all a small one. They are the #4 desktop hardware provider in the world (HP, Lenovo, and Dell being the top 3). They do not run Windows.

I've never heard of the HP, Lenovo or Dell operating systems that compete with windows.

 

[cdr_74_premium]

That was the reason why "free upgrades" to Windows 10 were given away to Windows 7 and 8 owners, and for so long (including long after the official "free upgrade" period ended): To get as many people as possible plugged into Microsoft's data-harvesting farm.

You can still do it without any hacks. Just run Media Creation Tool on any 7 machine and ask for an upgrade. The result Win10 install will be activated.

 

[Sycraft]

I've never heard of the HP, Lenovo or Dell operating systems that compete with windows.

Oh give it a rest, your attempt to move the goal posts and deflect because you know you are wrong is silly. You get my point: Apple is the number 4 desktop computer retailer in the world, and they are 100% non-Windows. Ergo, MS is NOT a Monopoly, they have a competitor, and not an insignificant one.