Microsoft is Back on the Chromebook Warpath

xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
So, Microsoft is basically saying...

CLOUD BAD
Click to expand...

Pretty much. This is one things that will hopefully change when they finally escort Ballmer out of the building and get a new CEO with half a brain.

This Chromebook bashing just looks desperate and ends up as reverse advertisement, but apparently Ballmer can't see that because they're scared to death of the Android effect happening again with the last market segment they're still relevant in.

avd0M3p.jpg
 
B00nie said:
Most private persons use openoffice or libreoffice instead of Microsoft Office as they're free and the user interface is ribbon free. Photoshop practically nobody owns legally, it's way too expensive for home users :)

Gimp is a PITA but it's free.
Click to expand...

Almost no one uses open office or libreoffice. In fact, in two companies I have worked at, I have had light office users try open office as a free replacement when we they didn't have the approval to buy a copy of Office. In all cases, they opted to continue using their existing, older version of office over open office. And the users that have wanted to give Open office a try over excel (heavy excel users) didn't last a week before they switched back.

Photoshop is expensive, but plenty own it legally and those that don't own it usually own Photoshop Elements. Then a ton of people use Light Room. Often people call any of these 3 packages photoshop the way a lot of people use Coke to describe any generic cola.

All that said, Chromebooks are pretty useless. I can't think of a single compelling reason to buy one over a laptop in the same price range. There isn't a single thing you can do with a chromebook in a browser on a PC or Mac but you sure can't do anything on a chromebook outside of the browser. Why buy a device that is so limited over a device that runs the exact same applications plus windows or mac apps natively. Especially when there are plenty of low cost versions available for the same price of a chromebook?
 
LurkerLito said:
Hmm...so you can't use Google docs offline, but the same was true with Office 365 and Adobe CC, so their comparison seems to be a bit of Apples vs Oranges. How useful is Office 365 or Adobe CC on a windows notebook with no wifi available, that would be more of a accurate comparison.
Click to expand...

Not true. The Office 385 sub allows you to install office locally as well as use the web app version. And Adobe's new model doesn't use web apps. It's a subscription for the local software. You still have the full local clients installed in both cases.
 
Google Doc do have an offline mode as well, and will sync it back to the cloud as soon as your back online. You can also download your files in the formats that you need. As far as open office and Libra office, I have used them for years and have seen an increase in normal home and office users using them *source: I work in IT and computer repair. Some of them moved open office because the really do dislike the ribbon interface other the cost.
 
Chromebooks are for those folks who will not be doing any heavy lifting software wise. ie Couch surfing, social networking, and online games. You know stuff when your phone is to uncomfortably small or tablet doesn't have nice keyboard and you don't want to pay a lot. I can see a lot folks with home wifi buying one -especially non-techies, teenagers, elderly, etc. I definitely would not go near these unless desperate to check the game score at some ones house. But hey I can see the appeal for some. And Google must have found a solid itch because MS sure is scratching
 
daglesj said:
Makes me laugh when people keep criticising Chromebooks saying they are useless if you don't have an internet connection.

Seems to me a lot of people are still living in 1998! Didn't know [H] had so many third world members.

In the civilised world of the 21st Century I have a connection everywhere I choose to be. If I don't have a connection then I've chosen to be there for that specific purpose.
Click to expand...

The reason I hate ChromeOS is because the OS is a web browser. The only thing redeeming about it is the ability to install Ubuntu.

But I also hate cloud anything. I hated it before it was cool to hate it, but now everyone hates cloud for a very good reason. A three letter reason.

N
S
A

griffinhart said:
Almost no one uses open office or libreoffice. In fact, in two companies I have worked at, I have had light office users try open office as a free replacement when we they didn't have the approval to buy a copy of Office. In all cases, they opted to continue using their existing, older version of office over open office. And the users that have wanted to give Open office a try over excel (heavy excel users) didn't last a week before they switched back.
Click to expand...

Most people right now are going to continue to use older MS Office products. Libre Office is strictly for those who can't afford it, or can't take MS Office with them. Like say using Linux for example.

But Office is a dying product, and that's because Microsoft wants to move it to a subscription model. Most people don't want to deal with change, so that's why they stick with MS Office over Libre. Otherwise if push came to shove, they'd make the switch over to Libre. It took until Windows 8 to break compatibility with Office 2003, otherwise people would continue to use it.

As soon as Office 2007 isn't compatible in Windows 9, people will dump it for Libre of other free alternatives.
 
Ashbringer said:
The reason I hate ChromeOS is because the OS is a web browser. The only thing redeeming about it is the ability to install Ubuntu.

But I also hate cloud anything. I hated it before it was cool to hate it, but now everyone hates cloud for a very good reason. A three letter reason.

N
S
A



Most people right now are going to continue to use older MS Office products. Libre Office is strictly for those who can't afford it, or can't take MS Office with them. Like say using Linux for example.

But Office is a dying product, and that's because Microsoft wants to move it to a subscription model. Most people don't want to deal with change, so that's why they stick with MS Office over Libre. Otherwise if push came to shove, they'd make the switch over to Libre. It took until Windows 8 to break compatibility with Office 2003, otherwise people would continue to use it.

As soon as Office 2007 isn't compatible in Windows 9, people will dump it for Libre of other free alternatives.
Click to expand...

Really? Since a lot of new machines are coming with Office 2013 home and Student? Where is Outlook in Libre Office?
 
Ashbringer said:
But Office is a dying product, and that's because Microsoft wants to move it to a subscription model.
Click to expand...

Isn't Google Docs also a subscription model?

Ashbringer said:
As soon as Office 2007 isn't compatible in Windows 9, people will dump it for Libre of other free alternatives.
Click to expand...

In a lot of cases though Office is free or very low cost. It comes free on a lot of these cheap tablets and hybrids and there's multiple ways to get it for next to nothing, like the $10 HUP deal. When you put together all of the ways to obtain office, all of the clients it supports, with brand new modern UI clients coming next year, the web version, the mobile OS versions, etc, it's just tough to compete with Office.
 
ManofGod said:
Really? Since a lot of new machines are coming with Office 2013 home and Student? Where is Outlook in Libre Office?
Click to expand...

What machines are coming with free Office? And exactly how much are these machines? Also an E-mail client is really your biggest issue with Libre? Mozilla Thunderbird maybe? It even multi-platform for pete's sake.
 
ManofGod said:
Really? Since a lot of new machines are coming with Office 2013 home and Student? Where is Outlook in Libre Office?
Click to expand...

Yeah, not sure where some of this stuff is coming from. Again, all of these cheap Windows 8 tablets and hybrids input 2013 Home & Student for free. As plodding as Microsoft is at times, their Office strategy seems to be pretty smart and extremely broad.
 
MajorDomo said:
What exactly Microsoft is so afraid of is the big mystery here.
Click to expand...

The future.

I think chromebooks are useless, but schools around here are switching to them. So kids will get used to living in the cloud with Google apps.

Even young relatives (into the 20's) are existing exclusively on cloud apps.

Old fogies like us will be scratching our heads as the world shits to mostly cloud based.

And, get off my lawn...
 
I bought a Samsung Chromebook for the wife so she could watch Korean content streamed at home. It is awesome for this with one exception, it would always freeze and need a kick in the ass every 30 minutes or so. She had me return it because of this flaw. It's possible that it has been fixed but I will never get her to try another because she has no faith in it now.

But I do take issue with anyone saying it's useless without an internet connection as it was designed and only intended to be an internet device. Saying that a device that is solely intended for use on the internet is useless without the internet is sort of like dissing a car for being useless without tires :D

If it weren't for that one small problem of the video freezing up I would have called it perfect.
 
lcpiper said:
I bought a Samsung Chromebook for the wife so she could watch Korean content streamed at home. It is awesome for this with one exception, it would always freeze and need a kick in the ass every 30 minutes or so. She had me return it because of this flaw. It's possible that it has been fixed but I will never get her to try another because she has no faith in it now.

But I do take issue with anyone saying it's useless without an internet connection as it was designed and only intended to be an internet device. Saying that a device that is solely intended for use on the internet is useless without the internet is sort of like dissing a car for being useless without tires :D

If it weren't for that one small problem of the video freezing up I would have called it perfect.
Click to expand...


I use my Samsung for a lot of on demand streaming and it works great. It seems to get a major update every couple of weeks (in the background you hardly notice it) so fixes are pretty fast in coming.

I wouldnt be without my Chromebook now. Hardly touch my 13" Windows 7 laptop now.
 
or most people whether gaming or doing work, there is tons to do offline.
Click to expand...

Actually I don't completely agree here. Years ago yes but today, not so much. The internet and online content is integrated into almost anything worth using or doing.

What's more, disconnect for a week, just one complete uninterrupted week. Plug in your machine and connect and watch the fun as everything starts updating, downloading, scanning, checking, transmitting, rebooting, etc.
 
I use my Samsung for a lot of on demand streaming and it works great. It seems to get a major update every couple of weeks
Click to expand...

How long ago did they fix the freezing in streaming content cause It was a problem for us only about 2 months ago.
 
All that said, Chromebooks are pretty useless. I can't think of a single compelling reason to buy one over a laptop in the same price range.
Click to expand...

I can. If it hadn't been for the freezing in streaming it was perfect for the job. A $250 box that supported streaming content with full browser support, and OS that wasn't going to cost MS prices to keep up, and HDMI with decent resolutions for connection to larger displays. It was everything my wife uses and needed.

My wife never does any document work, she never games on anything other then her phone, she does no social networking online, in fact, all she does online is watch streamed content from Korea. My wife is no different then many hundreds of thousands of older people, particularly from other countries, who have very limited internet needs. These people are more of a factor then people like us realize. They are legion.
 
lcpiper said:
My wife is no different then many hundreds of thousands of older people, particularly from other countries, who have very limited internet needs. These people are more of a factor then people like us realize. They are legion.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why Microsoft would do an ad like this. These negative ads always draw a lot of criticism and in particular the Scroogled campaign, not sure why Microsoft continues to do them. However one thing Microsoft seems to be very concerned about is pricing of devices at the low end. I think a better way to have done this ad would have been to stress more the hybrid nature of the T100 and how it serves both as a mini-laptop and tablet for about the same price as the Chromebook. Indeed they should have compared it to a touch Chromebook, those are starting to come out now and Windows 8 does work a lot better with touch than ChromeOS.
 
Touching the screen is weird on anything bigger than a phone...at least to me. I don't think that touch is even a factor when I think about what I want to do with a computer. Writing a novel using an on screen keyboard is just not something that interests me so I can safely factor out touch in comparing ChromeOS and Windows 8 and lots of people who genuinely enter data with their computers probably feel the same way.
 
Actually most don't need touch at all. Touch is great for handheld devices, but a device that sits plugged into your TV on the other side of the room needs a Bluetooth Mouse and maybe a Keyboard, not touch screens.
 
Interesting how they say the ChromeBook is worthless but never mention the worthless Apple iStuff.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Touching the screen is weird on anything bigger than a phone...at least to me. I don't think that touch is even a factor when I think about what I want to do with a computer. Writing a novel using an on screen keyboard is just not something that interests me so I can safely factor out touch in comparing ChromeOS and Windows 8 and lots of people who genuinely enter data with their computers probably feel the same way.
Click to expand...

There are now Windows tablets not much bigger than a phone in the form of these new 8" tablets that seem to be pretty popular because of their capabilities and price. They wouldn't be very light and or portable without touch screens.

lcpiper said:
Actually most don't need touch at all. Touch is great for handheld devices, but a device that sits plugged into your TV on the other side of the room needs a Bluetooth Mouse and maybe a Keyboard, not touch screens.
Click to expand...

One of the beauties of Windows tablet or hybrid is that, assuming the particular device has HDMI out like the T100, you can connect it to a TV with a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard running something like Windows Media Center and then pick it up and use it like a mobile OS tablet.
 
heatlesssun said:
There are now Windows tablets not much bigger than a phone in the form of these new 8" tablets that seem to be pretty popular because of their capabilities and price. They wouldn't be very light and or portable without touch screens.
Click to expand...

Dell's Venue comes to mind right away as an 8 inch Windows 8.1 tablet with reasonable (specifications wise anyhow) battery life and capabilities. Don't get me wrong, they're interesting and I'm sure that poking at the screen with a finger is totally awesome for some people. That kinda thing just doesn't fit into my world though. I don't want to poke the screen. I'f I'm using a computer, I'm typing something into it most of the time (with occasional watching of videos or playing of a game) so I really want and need a keyboard the majority of the time. Because of that, touch is a non-factor. If it's there, great, but I won't miss it if it's not. However, if there's no keyboard, I'm going to notice that it's gone right away and do things to get one so I can make a device useful to me.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Dell's Venue comes to mind right away as an 8 inch Windows 8.1 tablet with reasonable (specifications wise anyhow) battery life and capabilities. Don't get me wrong, they're interesting and I'm sure that poking at the screen with a finger is totally awesome for some people. That kinda thing just doesn't fit into my world though. I don't want to poke the screen. I'f I'm using a computer, I'm typing something into it most of the time (with occasional watching of videos or playing of a game) so I really want and need a keyboard the majority of the time. Because of that, touch is a non-factor. If it's there, great, but I won't miss it if it's not. However, if there's no keyboard, I'm going to notice that it's gone right away and do things to get one so I can make a device useful to me.
Click to expand...

Check out the Lenovo Miix 2. Same spec as the Venue, but double the storage at the cost of the 32gb Venue. I'd go the Lenovo route before Dell's any day.

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/ideatab/miix-series/miix-2/
 
Azhar said:
Check out the Lenovo Miix 2. Same spec as the Venue, but double the storage at the cost of the 32gb Venue. I'd go the Lenovo route before Dell's any day.

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/ideatab/miix-series/miix-2/
Click to expand...

No HDMI/DP on the Miix either? I wonder if this is a Microsoft enforced limitation to get lower license prices on sub 10" devices.

Because HDMI makes these kinds of devices a lot more versatile. Plug in a real KB/Mouse/Monitor and you would have a low powered, but fully usable desktop.

But stuck with a 8" screen only, it is just kind of awkward when you want to do serious desktop duty.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Dell's Venue comes to mind right away as an 8 inch Windows 8.1 tablet with reasonable (specifications wise anyhow) battery life and capabilities. Don't get me wrong, they're interesting and I'm sure that poking at the screen with a finger is totally awesome for some people. That kinda thing just doesn't fit into my world though. I don't want to poke the screen. I'f I'm using a computer, I'm typing something into it most of the time (with occasional watching of videos or playing of a game) so I really want and need a keyboard the majority of the time. Because of that, touch is a non-factor. If it's there, great, but I won't miss it if it's not. However, if there's no keyboard, I'm going to notice that it's gone right away and do things to get one so I can make a device useful to me.
Click to expand...

The V8P weighs 13 ounces, the point of it is to be as portable as possible and it also supports an active stylus for input that's not easy to do with only a keyboard and mouse.
 
Snowdog said:
No HDMI/DP on the Miix either? I wonder if this is a Microsoft enforced limitation to get lower license prices on sub 10" devices.

Because HDMI makes these kinds of devices a lot more versatile. Plug in a real KB/Mouse/Monitor and you would have a low powered, but fully usable desktop.

But stuck with a 8" screen only, it is just kind of awkward when you want to do serious desktop duty.
Click to expand...

I have a Surface Pro and I've never used the HDMI port. That doesn't bother me. The important thing for me is expansion slots more than anything. My iPad Mini lacks it, but my Surface Pro and this Miix 2 has it, so that makes it desirable for me.

The other important thing for me is pen support. Until now, only tablets with digitizer screens makes my list. Now anything goes, thanks to Adonit Jot Script. I preordered a Jot Script 3 months ago and it finally came last week. I took it to the Microsoft Store in Chicago and it works exactly like a digitzer pen would on all tablets. No disk, no rubber tip, but plastic glide tip just like a digitizer pen. So with this, it opened a whole world of Windows 8 tablets for me and my company without needing to spend $1000 for the Surface Pro or $800 for a Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2. Now $299 tablets plus $74 Jot Scripts are within our reach.

Those who need to use bigger screens in my company use normal laptops connected to their monitor via HDMI or VGA. Next batch of laptops I will purchase for our company will be the Yoga Pro 2.
 
Snowdog said:
No HDMI/DP on the Miix either? I wonder if this is a Microsoft enforced limitation to get lower license prices on sub 10" devices.

Because HDMI makes these kinds of devices a lot more versatile. Plug in a real KB/Mouse/Monitor and you would have a low powered, but fully usable desktop.

But stuck with a 8" screen only, it is just kind of awkward when you want to do serious desktop duty.
Click to expand...

The Toshiba Encore has HDMI out, it's up to the OEMs what they want to support and what price they want to hit. Dell put an active pen on the V8P which has appeal to a certain crowd and was a more important feature to me than HDMI out. There is the option to use Miracast, not HDMI but it does offer at least some large screen options.
 
heatlesssun said:
The V8P weighs 13 ounces, the point of it is to be as portable as possible and it also supports an active stylus for input that's not easy to do with only a keyboard and mouse.
Click to expand...

Once my computer weighs less than about 5 lbs, I pretty much stop worrying about weight as a factor. It isn't that important to me if it's 5 ounces or 2 kilograms. Writing doesn't become of better quality as the weight decreases, but a lot hinges on having a set of buttons that suit the individual tastes of the person using them. For me that's some sort of physical keyboard.
 
Azhar said:
I have a Surface Pro and I've never used the HDMI port. That doesn't bother me. The important thing for me is expansion slots more than anything. My iPad Mini lacks it, but my Surface Pro and this Miix 2 has it, so that makes it desirable for me.

The other important thing for me is pen support. Until now, only tablets with digitizer screens makes my list. Now anything goes, thanks to Adonit Jot Script. I preordered a Jot Script 3 months ago and it finally came last week. I took it to the Microsoft Store in Chicago and it works exactly like a digitzer pen would on all tablets. No disk, no rubber tip, but plastic glide tip just like a digitizer pen. So with this, it opened a whole world of Windows 8 tablets for me and my company without needing to spend $1000 for the Surface Pro or $800 for a Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2. Now $299 tablets plus $74 Jot Scripts are within our reach.

Those who need to use bigger screens in my company use normal laptops connected to their monitor via HDMI or VGA. Next batch of laptops I will purchase for our company will be the Yoga Pro 2.
Click to expand...

I thought the Adonit Jot Script was currently only for iOS devices?
 
heatlesssun said:
I thought the Adonit Jot Script was currently only for iOS devices?
Click to expand...

That's what the website says. I took the risk and got one anyways. I figured if it didn't work on a Windows 8 tablet, I would use it on my iPad Mini. Works perfectly fine on all Windows 8 touchscreens. You can write in the writing keyboard mode, you can write in OneNote, Word, you can manipulate buttons and do anything an active pen can do. Worth every penny.
 
Azhar said:
That's what the website says. I took the risk and got one anyways. I figured if it didn't work on a Windows 8 tablet, I would use it on my iPad Mini. Works perfectly fine on all Windows 8 touchscreens. You can write in the writing keyboard mode, you can write in OneNote, Word, you can manipulate buttons and do anything an active pen can do. Worth every penny.
Click to expand...

Thanks, so just pair it and it works? I'll have to try that out if it works as well as you say.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Once my computer weighs less than about 5 lbs, I pretty much stop worrying about weight as a factor. It isn't that important to me if it's 5 ounces or 2 kilograms. Writing doesn't become of better quality as the weight decreases, but a lot hinges on having a set of buttons that suit the individual tastes of the person using them. For me that's some sort of physical keyboard.
Click to expand...

A five pound laptop simply can't be used the way a 13 ounce V8P can. And the wrist and size have a dramatic effect on the usability writing. I'm comfortably holding the V8P in one hand while writing this post, that's just not something easily done with a five pound device.
 
The Microsoft Automated Response Bot™ is posting so much its going to blow a gasket.

Maybe take a five minute break and give some other people a chance to post.
 
heatlesssun said:
Thanks, so just pair it and it works? I'll have to try that out if it works as well as you say.
Click to expand...

I didn't try Bluetooth pairing. I simply used it as I would an active pen on digitizer screens. The Jot Script works on all Windows 8 tablets that doesn't have digitizer screens. To borrow Apple's motto, it just works.
 
ianken said:
Chrome books ARE useless.

Now pit a Nexus 10 against a Surface RT and see how that goes.

I'll never buy a fucking ARM based Windows tablet. I have a Surface RT. It's a doorstop. The app store is a wasteland of scam and shovel ware. Just search for "VLC" or "MKV" and see the fuckload of bogus apps from the same handful of scammers.

Now, the x86 tablets? Those are sweet. The Venu 8 Pro is awesome. I love it. Microsoft and Intel should focus on making x86 tablets continue to be awesome and get them down in price so they can go up against the budget ARM devices.
Click to expand...

My buddy jailbroke his RT and uses it for all sorts of shit...
 
DPI said:
The Microsoft Automated Response Bot™ is posting so much its going to blow a gasket.

Maybe take a five minute break and give some other people a chance to post.
Click to expand...

Just what I was thinking... MS must be getting desperate!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top