Microsoft Exec Sees Autumn Release For Windows 10

Yes, I'm going to upgrade. I like the new Start menu, Cortana looks nice, Continuum will be awesome (if they can get it to work right!), and other awesome new features are making me excited! :D I'm definitely looking forward to it. The Insiders previews are great. The stuff Microsoft is showing internally looks sweet, even if it's not done. I'm not much for marketing, but the new stuff they have lined up looks like it's going to be pretty good (typical marketing feel good stuff, but looks like it will resonate with the end users).

I see Windows 10 as being the next Windows 7. They'll market the shit out of it, and it's shaping up to be a killer OS for consumers and enterprise. Deployments/updates and installs are going to be different, and much more powerful and easy to deploy.

It's just a really big release. I can see why they skipped 9 and went with 10. Still confusing, but it is a huge release.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Ugg. This weak defense? Ok... That's why people hate it... sure. I love Windows 8, but a lot of people don't like the changes with it, not because it's different, but because the changes don't offer them anything or help them be more efficient. Personal preference != fear of change.

Let's put down (l)users that don't like Micro$oft's new OS, that'll show 'em! :rolleyes:

People can give a legitimate complaint, and some people claim "oh, you just don't like change" BS.




LOL! I love it!
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There aren't legitimate complaints.... It's faster and the start menu can be tailored to your liking. This offers efficiency.

Relax with the defensiveness.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Ugg. This weak defense? Ok... That's why people hate it... sure. I love Windows 8, but a lot of people don't like the changes with it, not because it's different, but because the changes don't offer them anything or help them be more efficient. Personal preference != fear of change.
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But there are those that say that Windows 8 makes them less efficient. And to an extent I can understand that, certainly the changes between 7 and 8 have a learning curve. 8.1 and then 8.1 Update did do a lot to help with many but not all of the issues. Most notably no Start Menu. I don't buy that the Start Menu is a cornerstone of efficiency or that it really plays that much into actually using applications. But sure, it's what many people are used to and that's something that Microsoft did ignore with Windows 8 and that was a mistake.

But a person used to Windows 8 can be just as efficient on the desktop as one used to 7. 8 I do find preferable to 7 with multiple monitors and running 7 on a device like the Surface would certainly remove a great deal of its functionality.
 
JacobC1983 said:
There aren't legitimate complaints.... It's faster and the start menu can be tailored to your liking. This offers efficiency.

Relax with the defensiveness.
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I think the Start Menu vs. the Start Screen on a mouse driven device is a wash, at least with Windows 8.1 for most folks overall. The full screen nature of it does seem to really disorient some. What I do like about the Start Screen is that is a consistent way to launch apps and see notifications across different kinds of devices.

On thing that's hurt Windows 8 is situation with Store apps, at least early on. The situation is still not great but I think has improved a bit. There are a number of decent modern apps out there that while not business oriented are neat for consumers. With the modern apps I used and have setup I can instantly know what's going on with any number of things, Twitter feeds, news, stocks, FB updates, weather and so forth. When people get to understand what's there how it works, the Start Screen is much less of an issue. But if you're one that's trying to avoid modern apps at all costs or think every tile is a static monocolored then sure, the problems there are obvious.
 
JacobC1983 said:
There aren't legitimate complaints.... It's faster and the start menu can be tailored to your liking. This offers efficiency.

Relax with the defensiveness.
Click to expand...

I love Windows 8. I use it on all the machines that don't have Windows 10 preview on them. But, I have several complaints, mostly about the start screen. I am faster and more efficient with Windows 8 (without any start menu replacements) and Powershell combined. These are the UI complaints I hear and agree with -

The smart tiles aren't that great as I am rarely in the start screen. When I am, it's to launch an application. On my phone, that's the main screen, there is no desktop - it's perfect. Smart tiles are excellent and serve an excellent purpose. Same with tablets.

Tile management. It's getting better, but not there yet. Yea, I can organize things, but it takes a lot more work than the start menu.

Type to launch. It's fine for when you know the program name. Otherwise, you're going to the start screen, going to all programs, and scanning the screen and scrolling for the program. It's more time consuming than the start menu. Not by much, but it is.

Charms.... No visual cue to know it's there, kind of dynamic based on application, etc.. Not a huge deal, but many have issues with it. Also, PC Settings vs. Control Panel - two places for different settings.

I can name a few more. They aren't big complaints, but they are legitimate. And they are all addressed with Windows 10. Yes, there are ways to minimize the complaints, but they are still there. I can use Windows 8 great on several different devices, and I really love it. But, it's not perfect. That's why I love Windows 10 - it builds on Windows 8 and addresses it's shortcomings. And they aren't because of the fear of change. Even with Windows 8 vs 8.1 - the lack of a visual start button was disrupting for many. A legitimate complaint because it causes confusion. Change? Yes, and once you figured it out, it was fine. Still caused confusion for many users.

Windows 8 isn't perfect, and it's not because of the fear of change. I just really don't like that as a defense for it. It's good, but it's not perfect. Yes, some people don't like it because it's different. Others have legit problems. I don't say they aren't legit because they are based on the UI or other change. I'll defend Microsoft for a lot of things. But, when there is such a huge number of people having similar problems - it's a legit issue.
 
pxc said:
So Mary Jo Foley was wrong? lol
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How? She and Thurrott have always said late spring to early summer, to make a fall release in time for back to school. It isn't like a game where going gold means it will be out for retail in a few weeks, it's going to be 2-3 months later after OEMs and 3rd parties have tested and finalized their drivers.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think the Start Menu vs. the Start Screen on a mouse driven device is a wash, at least with Windows 8.1 for most folks overall. The full screen nature of it does seem to really disorient some. What I do like about the Start Screen is that is a consistent way to launch apps and see notifications across different kinds of devices.

On thing that's hurt Windows 8 is situation with Store apps, at least early on. The situation is still not great but I think has improved a bit. There are a number of decent modern apps out there that while not business oriented are neat for consumers. With the modern apps I used and have setup I can instantly know what's going on with any number of things, Twitter feeds, news, stocks, FB updates, weather and so forth. When people get to understand what's there how it works, the Start Screen is much less of an issue. But if you're one that's trying to avoid modern apps at all costs or think every tile is a static monocolored then sure, the problems there are obvious.
Click to expand...

On a tablet or phone - start screen with live tiles is so sweet. I love it. On a desktop, I'm rarely at the start screen, so they aren't as useful. Microsoft is aware of the lack of quality apps in the store and is trying to get developers to create higher quality ones and get rid of the spammy and crap apps.
 
Ur_Mom said:
On a tablet or phone - start screen with live tiles is so sweet. I love it. On a desktop, I'm rarely at the start screen, so they aren't as useful. Microsoft is aware of the lack of quality apps in the store and is trying to get developers to create higher quality ones and get rid of the spammy and crap apps.
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Doesn't really matter to me the device I'm using, I use the Start Screen constantly because I use it for information probably more than an app launcher. Starting with 7 all of my main programs are pinned to the task bar and the others I have short cuts at the beginning of the Start Screen which again is how I have it setup on all my Windows 8.1 devices regardless of form factor. If one used the Start Menu in 7 and was constantly scrolling through it to launch apps, I can see why they wouldn't like the Start Screen. I hardly ever did that. I probably do more lurking in the Apps Screen in 8.1 because the sorting. The date installed and most used sorts are very useful, nothing like that in 7 out of the box.

There are things that I don't like about the Start Screen. One you mention is maintenance. However there's really no analog to this in 7. The Start Menu is just a static hierarchical arrangement of short cuts. The analog to this is the Apps Screen in Windows 8.1 except flat, too flat. The Start/Apps Screen could use a folder system like that on Windows Phone, hopefully that will be in the Start Screen replacement of Windows 10.
 
TwiceOver said:
I don't really have any problems with 8. The benefits outweigh the drawbacks. I've gotten used to it.
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There are no "benefits" to be gained if you replaced a perfectly good W7 build with any iteration of W8 OS. Getting "used to it" is just another way of saying I'm stuck with it so I might as well "like" it?
 
Way too early to even think about this right now. Nine months is still a ways away. Until then I'll happily chug along with my Win 7 x64 and then think about it again then.
 
I can say that at work in the laboratory, we will be years before updating to W10. Matter of fact, much of our equipment is still on XP because the manufacturers have not made upgrades to their control software and we can't throw out a piece of equipment we bought 5 years ago that cost $250k just so we can upgrade to W7 and spend another $250k to do it.

For people who only use their computers to browse the web and check email and FB updates I can see to the latest and greatest if you have cash just lying around. Also hard core gamers I can see keeping up to date. But in production facilities, the cost involved in constantly updating operating systems and wasting time and money trying to make it work with your equipment (if it is even possible) just does not make financial sense at all. We just got rid of our last W95 computer last year, and the last W3.11 computer about three years ago because the equipment that was controlled by those finally reached a point it cost more to upkeep than to replace. I really sucks sometimes that really useful and expensive equipment outlasts operating systems and software by ten years or more. It is sort of like tearing your house down and completely rebuilding it every few years because you want to change the color of one wall.
 
jedijeb said:
For people who only use their computers to browse the web and check email and FB updates I can see to the latest and greatest if you have cash just lying around. Also hard core gamers I can see keeping up to date. But in production facilities, the cost involved in constantly updating operating systems and wasting time and money trying to make it work with your equipment (if it is even possible) just does not make financial sense at all. We just got rid of our last W95 computer last year, and the last W3.11 computer about three years ago because the equipment that was controlled by those finally reached a point it cost more to upkeep than to replace. I really sucks sometimes that really useful and expensive equipment outlasts operating systems and software by ten years or more. It is sort of like tearing your house down and completely rebuilding it every few years because you want to change the color of one wall.
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It's a lot more complicated than this. While you are dealing in an environment where the hardware is very static, consumer level hardware is constantly changing. Windows is now running effectively on PCs with less hardware than higher end phones at prices next to nothing. Most people who buy Windows consumer devices never buy a copy of Windows or an upgrade.
 
Simmonz said:
Classic Start is free and a good option as well.
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I think that he is a developer of the other one. So he wants your money. Unless I am mistaking the tell us what you think about it to actually mean us the forum members and not us the company that makes this product.

Ur_Mom said:
On a tablet or phone - start screen with live tiles is so sweet. I love it. On a desktop, I'm rarely at the start screen, so they aren't as useful. Microsoft is aware of the lack of quality apps in the store and is trying to get developers to create higher quality ones and get rid of the spammy and crap apps.
Click to expand...

I don't care so much about the live tiles as much as a extremely stripped down version of the start menu with only the items I want. Last few windows versions I only ever used the pin to start. anything that I couldn't pin to start due to size limits was either a desktop icon then or pin to task bar. no way I was going to go dig through the all programs to find anything. start screen gives a nice, clean, quick way to group things that I want to quickly access and still only see the shortcuts that I want. Once I install it, I don't care about the stuff for java, or adobe reader or the driver software for my sound card or that type of stuff. Back in the day of windows 98 I used to organize my start menu to be in the format of GAMES, then put all game folders in there, AUDIO and put anything audio related in there, PROGRAMMING and then put all programming related stuff in there. Which then would mess up some stuff when doing upgrades as it expected the items to be in a different location. With the start screen I can do that now with out breaking anything. I can also get rid of all shortcuts I don't care about. Instead I have a very streamlined screen with only the programs that I care about. If something has 20 addition pieces that have shortcuts I don't have to see them all now when going to launch a program.

ICOM said:
There are no "benefits" to be gained if you replaced a perfectly good W7 build with any iteration of W8 OS. Getting "used to it" is just another way of saying I'm stuck with it so I might as well "like" it?
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I fully disagree, however everyone's experience will be different. I find the start screen (on none touch screens) to be a better way to manage shortcuts than a menu. There are other things that were new to windows 8 that I found to be a pain not having when in windows 7. I can't recall now what all they were as I have been using windows 8 for so long I forget what I couldn't do in previous versions. I know for example in vista if you drag a program to the side of your screen it does nothing. Windows 8 however would make that take up that half of the screen. Windows key + left or windows key + right does the same thing. I use that all the time. At this point I don't recall if windows 7 could do all that or now. I just recall that after having used the windows 8 tech preview for a few weeks as my machine OS there was something I started using all the time in windows 8 that I couldn't do in windows 7 and I kept catching myself trying to do. However that is special to how I use my computer, you and other are going to use it differently.
 
Exavior said:
I know for example in vista if you drag a program to the side of your screen it does nothing. Windows 8 however would make that take up that half of the screen. Windows key + left or windows key + right does the same thing. I use that all the time. At this point I don't recall if windows 7 could do all that or now. I just recall that after having used the windows 8 tech preview for a few weeks as my machine OS there was something I started using all the time in windows 8 that I couldn't do in windows 7 and I kept catching myself trying to do. However that is special to how I use my computer, you and other are going to use it differently.
Click to expand...

This is Aero Snap it first came to Windows in 7.
 
heatlesssun said:
A long way to go, lots of technical and logistical details yet to be revealed publically but this looks like a Windows release that's going to get fast adoption. While the pricing details are critical as to whether or not Windows 10 is an adoption hit, there's almost certainty that there will be free OEM versions of it for cheap devices like Windows 8.1 today which all but guarantees better initial adoption than Windows 8.

The other critical part of pricing will be upgrade price for existing supported versions of Windows. Free upgrades from Vista on up probably guarantees the fastest adoption rate for a version of Windows ever. Then there's the rumors dealing with subscription based monitization of at least parts the OS that would probably kill that momentum. I think the best path would be to do what's being done with Windows 8.1 now and free consumer upgrades for existing users with the idea of getting more revenue from the store and other services. I don't think any other way is going to work without headache and complaints, except perhaps a very low upgrade cost.
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I don't know why they'd bother offering it to Vista users for free. It's marketshare is small and extended support ends sometime in 2017. If you're still using vista, the next time you change your OS will be the next time you buy a computer.

Now 7 might make a difference with consumers, but I'm unconvinced that businesses will change their OS unless they absolutely have to. The only time I've had a new OS at work is when 7 came out and XP support was clearly coming to an end. Even then, i think it was more than a year after 7 was released. At earlier jobs, we were moving to 2000 after XP came out.

If htey offer a subscription model and a retail model, then it's a win win. There are are probably a lot of people who would consider renting Windows for 2 or 3 bucks/month rather than paying $100 for it.

Look at Adobe's CS. There are a lot of people who hate the CS model, but if you are a new user, 10 bucks/month for Lightroom and Photoshop is far more reasonable than 700 + 200 for an upgrade ever 2 or 3 years (more if you buy every upgrade).

For me, I'll upgrade if there's a compelling reason to, but the truth is I bought 2 copies of 8 for about $20.00 each and I haven't used the licenses yet (though maybe in Q1 of 2015).
 
Ur_Mom said:
Ugg. This weak defense? Ok... That's why people hate it... sure. I love Windows 8, but a lot of people don't like the changes with it, not because it's different, but because the changes don't offer them anything or help them be more efficient. Personal preference != fear of change.

Let's put down (l)users that don't like Micro$oft's new OS, that'll show 'em! :rolleyes:

People can give a legitimate complaint, and some people claim "oh, you just don't like change" BS.


LOL! I love it!
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I remember very similar complaints about Windows 7. They complain there's no start menu now. Back then they complained that it didn't have the Classic Start menu (as in the one from fracking Windows 95). I remember being shocked that people wanted a 15 year old menu that was either an unwieldy mess of programs or a ton of nested folders (my preferred method back in the day).

Some of the complaints about 8 (like searching) are probably identical to how i use Windows 7 (and possibly how I used vista....been 5 years since I used that one).

I don't use 8 (just never got around to installing it), but the new UI doesn't seem that bad once you go to the desktop.
 
I can't help picturing certain members in their Microsoft Cheerleading outfits while typing their responses to these threads, pom poms in hand. :D
 
Mackintire said:
Install a trial of Startisback for 30 days....then tell us what you think of Windows 8.
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Classic Shell is free and does the same thing.

I get used to Win 8. I find the start screen more useful than the old start menu.

For me, if they decide to go back to the start menu, they better do like Xubuntu and sort things out on categories instead of making one folder for each program. Keeps everything nice and clean.
 
heatlesssun said:
A long way to go, lots of technical and logistical details yet to be revealed publically but this looks like a Windows release that's going to get fast adoption. While the pricing details are critical as to whether or not Windows 10 is an adoption hit, there's almost certainty that there will be free OEM versions of it for cheap devices like Windows 8.1 today which all but guarantees better initial adoption than Windows 8.

The other critical part of pricing will be upgrade price for existing supported versions of Windows. Free upgrades from Vista on up probably guarantees the fastest adoption rate for a version of Windows ever. Then there's the rumors dealing with subscription based monitization of at least parts the OS that would probably kill that momentum. I think the best path would be to do what's being done with Windows 8.1 now and free consumer upgrades for existing users with the idea of getting more revenue from the store and other services. I don't think any other way is going to work without headache and complaints, except perhaps a very low upgrade cost.
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As Kyle stated below Windows 8.1 is not something you really want. That will make Windows 10 (or as it should be named Windows 8.3) an easy choice because Windows 7 will be phased out, how ever you want to see this it will be "better" then Windows 8.1

But the reality is that an operating system has to be practical and not marketing fluff combined with awkward User Interface. MS has failed to prove the point with Windows 8.1 and there trying it again under Windows 10 where the differences will most likely be the same but less awkward.

MS stopped producing anything worthwhile ages ago monopoly made them lazy and the designers stupid (see windows 8.1) all of a sudden we are here to believe that Windows 10 would be worthwhile? Sadly the only worthwhile action I can see is when MS produces such upgrades for Windows 7 because that is one of the few Operating System they produced that is not awkward and still runs great for a MS OS.

As a consumer I really don't give a flying fuck about MS attempts to "corner" the tablet market and that they are failing at it badly is something I don't mind but don't shove half assed attempts at an Operating System at the desktop market because "we" have done MS no wrong.

The cheapest way MS will force this upon desktop users is because DX12 will be "needed" for gaming on Windows 10 which is something sad and stupid but in true fashion the Microsoft way of screwing us badly.
 
timta2 said:
I can't help picturing certain members in their Microsoft Cheerleading outfits while typing their responses to these threads, pom poms in hand. :D
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I cannot help but picture troll baiting when I see it. :rolleyes:
 
ManofGod said:
I cannot help but picture troll baiting when I see it. :rolleyes:
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Yeah, this. I bet you'd look perfectly okay with pom-poms anyhow so who would even get upset about that? I mean, personally I wouldn't wanna be one of the people on the ground holding your feet or anything because of the skirt and the risk of having like a ManofGod space bar sighting (x.x) but whatever works.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
As a consumer I really don't give a flying fuck about MS attempts to "corner" the tablet market and that they are failing at it badly is something I don't mind but don't shove half assed attempts at an Operating System at the desktop market because "we" have done MS no wrong.
Click to expand...

I think most reasonable people from the beginning have understood that Microsoft made mistakes with Windows 8, particularly around the UI and its suitability for traditional desktop/laptop keyboard and mouse users. But we're kind of past that. Windows hardware is a lot different today than two years ago. Tablets, hybrids/convertibles and touch have now been pretty widely deployed. Sure its still a much smaller number of users than traditional Windows desktop users but with the current pricing on some of these devices, the number of touch and tablet Windows users is going to increase. How much remains to be seen.

It's no longer enough for desktop Windows to work well only on desktops with only keyboards and mice. Again the number of tablet and touch users may be small but just think of the blow back if Windows 10 has a significantly degraded touch experience on a Surface Pro device. Sure, a very tiny number of Windows users, but ones that will be VERY vocal if they think the desktop took all precedence on a device that's meant to be used not only as a desktop but a tablet.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think most reasonable people from the beginning have understood that Microsoft made mistakes with Windows 8...
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The way I remember it, I thought you didn't really agree that there were mistakes until after Windows 8 was out of previews and stuff.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
The way I remember it, I thought you didn't really agree that there were mistakes until after Windows 8 was out of previews and stuff.
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I did take the time to learn about new UI when it came out and one thing I knew would be problematic for many were full screen elements and issues with multiple monitor support. Windows 8 RTM only allowed modern apps to run on one screen, including the Start Screen. So if one were running the Netflix app on one screen of a multiple monitor setup and then opened the Start Screen on another, the Netflix app would suspend on that screen and the Start Screen open on the other.

That clearly was messy and needed to fixed and it was in 8.1.
 
pcjunkie said:
Sorry but I usually don't read your dribble...that one just sounded funny as in a pot kettle black thing.
Click to expand...

That's ok, good advice is dribble to you, no problem. I have you on ignore anyways but sometimes, I just cannot help myself. :D On the other hand, Windows 10 TP seems to work well in Virtual Box off the SSD that I have the VHD installed on. :)
 
timta2 said:
I can't help picturing certain members in their Microsoft Cheerleading outfits while typing their responses to these threads, pom poms in hand. :D
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There is a difference between cheerleading and talking about experiences and pointing out factual errors and I think that's why some many discussions about Windows 8 get so ridiculous. I've never said to anyone that was happy with Windows 7 on a desktop that they should just upgrade because. But the reverse is true also. If 8 is working for someone then saying Windows 7 is just so much better rings a bit of resisting change. Not saying it is, there's plenty of reasons not to like Windows 8. But I, lost most, wouldn't install Windows 7 as the host OS on my Surface Pro 3.
 
Getting tired of this fast paced upgrade schedule especially with the current Windows 8 update hassles. I understand not everyone has update problems but the ones I have are the "pain in the ass" kind. I'm seriously thinking of sticking with Windows 7 and buying a game console for entertainment stuff. Unless things get drastically better with Windows 10 that is the path I'm headed down.
 
I'll probably upgrade to 10 when it comes out as I need to be conversant in all Windows operating systems. For thinking Win 8 is worthless, try doing a drive encryption on a modern laptop with a SSD that has eDrive support on Windows 8 and 7. I agree the pushy Metro UI is a pain, but a quick third party Start button and programs to replace metro apps from running makes Win 8 look a lot like Win 7.
 
DPI said:
Can we get a mod to ban this hater please. He's obviously a hater than just hates anything Microsoft tries to do.

/s. :rolleyes:
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The difference is, he did not get personal. I find it works fantastic but then, I probably have not run into the problems he has.
 
pcjunkie said:
Getting tired of this fast paced upgrade schedule especially with the current Windows 8 update hassles. I understand not everyone has update problems but the ones I have are the "pain in the ass" kind. I'm seriously thinking of sticking with Windows 7 and buying a game console for entertainment stuff. Unless things get drastically better with Windows 10 that is the path I'm headed down.
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Fast paced? Aside from XP, MS has typically released a new OS no less than once every 2 or 3 years. You can follow Windows 1 to present and major releases were always 1-3 years apart. With that said, if you like 7 or whatever your current OS is, then use that. I generally only upgrade when I buy new H/W (or if I have a spare machine to play with).
 
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