Microsoft Exec on PS4 Pro: 4.2 Teraflops Is Not Enough to Do True 4K

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The back and forth smack talking between console makers is still going strong. This time around we have Microsoft's Albert Penello taking a swipe at Sony's PS4 Pro saying that it won't have enough horsepower to do true 4K.

"I think there are a lot of caveats they're giving customers right now around 4K," he said. "They're talking about checkerboard rendering and up-scaling and things like that. There are just a lot of asterisks in their marketing around 4K, which is interesting because when we thought about what spec we wanted for Scorpio, we were very clear we wanted developers to take their Xbox One engines and render them in native, true 4K. That was why we picked the number, that's why we have the memory bandwidth we have, that's why we have the teraflops we have, because it's what we heard from game developers was required to achieve native 4K."
 
I think we've all read enough test articles on the [H] to know that 4K is really, really demanding.
 
Word is that the PS4 Pro's upscaling trick is really good though. I wonder how many people would subjectively notice a difference anyways.
 
I doubt they'll be doing it without compromise either
 
It's all about the tera flops baby!

Yeah..... First it was mhz, the ghz, then cores, now tera flops.

Just saying.
 
Alia Nexis said:
It's plenty of horsepower to do 4k, just not at the level of visual fidelity of the current AAA PS4 games. I would rather they make rock-solid 1080p games with good AA implementations.
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1080p with good AA w/ good upscaling is impressive as well.
 
Alia Nexis said:
It's plenty of horsepower to do 4k, just not at the level of visual fidelity of the current AAA PS4 games. I would rather they make rock-solid 1080p games with good AA implementations.
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The old expression "know your limitations" still holds true.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
The old expression "know your limitations" still holds true.
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Indeed. I would also much rather see games shooting for 1080p/60 FPS than sub-4K running at the same dismal framerate and image quality we get now. I honestly can't remember the last console game I tried that actually ran at 30 FPS since Forza 6's glorious 60 FPS. It seems that recently the bar has been lowered to around 25 FPS...
 
It takes something like the Pascal Titan X to get us to the 4K promise land. I don't think the consoles are going to reach that precipice in 2017.
 
Either way, competition is a good thing. Poor Nintendo.
 
The upscaling isn't really a problem because Sony isn't using a standard bilinear/bicubic like what you find in TVs. They are using a variation on checkerboard rendering which essentially runs the image using 2XMSAA and then uses the MSAA samples, along with data from the previous frame to upscale the current frame.

US20160005344A1 - Method and system for use in uprendering multimedia content - Google Patents

You can see an example of a similar technique here :
GeForce.com Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege Anti-Aliasing Interactive Comparison: AA Off vs. Temporal Filtering - Example #001

The one on the left is upscaled, the one on the right is native resolution.
 
SAR! Your product is slightly more incapable than my product of doing what it says! You are a scoundrel and I declare victory at failing to actually game at 4k!
 
It's enough, just turn down the texture/model detail, draw distance, framerate, etc...
 
Alia Nexis said:
It's plenty of horsepower to do 4k, just not at the level of visual fidelity of the current AAA PS4 games. I would rather they make rock-solid 1080p games with good AA implementations.
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Yea, the push to 4k displays has made both of these companies rush slightly improved products that still won't deliver 4K at high detail settings.
Youn said:
It's enough, just turn down the texture/model detail, draw distance, framerate, etc...
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Sure it is a give and take. You can increase the resolution if the scene is simple enough, but why.
 
viscountalpha said:
Nintendo doesn't deserve any sympathy. Not after claiming you have to have a new 3ds to run super nes games.
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It's actually quite possible that the faster CPU in the N3DS (over the 3DS) is necessary to get SNES games running PROPERLY

SNES hardware is fairly complex where emulation is concerned. They probably need every cycle they can get on those little ARM processors to do something like that. ARM and 65816 are not 1:1 not to mention the custom chips. Who knows, that may have even been one of the bigger reasons they upgraded the CPU in it.

Aside from that, if Nintendo is using a Pascal based Tegra in the NX, it might be pretty close in raw performance TFLOP-wise to the PS4 Pro. Same ballpark anyway assuming Pascal.
 
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What will these console makers do when 8K comes out? Pretend 4K is the future?
 
Ugh, FLOPS does not equal performance, ffs.
The GTX980Ti is around ~5.5TFLOPS and the GTX1080 is a little over 10TFLOPS, but this doesn't mean that the GTX1080 is nearly twice as fast as the GTX980TI.

This is some serious marketing bullshit with computational metrics which have next to nothing to do with gaming or resolutions supported.
 
They need too add freesync to them and tvs need to start having it will make sub 60 fps games feel s lot better.
 
They are basically going to be doing 1440P upscaled at 30FPS. Not a huge deal.
 
Neither of these systems will be capable of 4K gaming realistically as we see it. The last generation of systems humped the 720p standard well past their expected life times, but they did have some of the best up converted images that I had seen. XBOX One at launch didn't match that, I'm not sure if they have corrected it since I haven't used my XBOX One in well over a year.w
 
Someone call me when either of the consoles can play real ganes at real 1080p at 60fps. I don't see either of these new consoles breaking some new records on 4K when a 1080 or Titan X struggles with it.
 
J3RK said:
It's actually quite possible that the faster CPU in the N3DS (over the 3DS) is necessary to get SNES games running PROPERLY

SNES hardware is fairly complex where emulation is concerned. They probably need every cycle they can get on those little ARM processors to do something like that. ARM and 65816 are not 1:1 not to mention the custom chips. Who knows, that may have even been one of the bigger reasons they upgraded the CPU in it.

Aside from that, if Nintendo is using a Pascal based Tegra in the NX, it might be pretty close in raw performance TFLOP-wise to the PS4 Pro. Same ballpark anyway assuming Pascal.
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The ds-lite could run it just fine. I don't accept that excuse at all.
 
Red Falcon said:
Ugh, FLOPS does not equal performance, ffs.
The GTX980Ti is around ~5.5TFLOPS and the GTX1080 is a little over 10TFLOPS, but this doesn't mean that the GTX1080 is nearly twice as fast as the GTX980TI.

This is some serious marketing bullshit with computational metrics which have next to nothing to do with gaming or resolutions supported.
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Heck the Fury X is what, like 9.5 Tflops? It isn't any faster than a 980Ti, they trade blows with one winning in some games and the other in other games. If this is based on AMD's architecture(which it most likely is), then it's even less likely to mean anything. Microsoft doesn't even have a product for another year, they can talk all they want but nobody cares right now. And before anyone says anything, I don't think the PS4 Pro is all that interesting.
 
Well, that's a pretty serious understatement. The current-gen consoles can barely hit 1080p, and sometimes not even that. Doubling the GPU horsepower isn't going to suddenly allow them to push 4 times the number of pixels. We probably won't see a real 4K console for 2 more generations, that is if they keep making consoles.
 
-Strelok- said:
Heck the Fury X is what, like 9.5 Tflops? It isn't any faster than a 980Ti, they trade blows with one winning in some games and the other in other games. If this is based on AMD's architecture(which it most likely is), then it's even less likely to mean anything. Microsoft doesn't even have a product for another year, they can talk all they want but nobody cares right now. And before anyone says anything, I don't think the PS4 Pro is all that interesting.
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I agree, FLOPS is a near-pointless measurement in gaming performance.
 
SighTurtle said:
Tbh, its the only thing that has been released regarding their specs. Its all we have to even talk about.
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Would be nice if we actually could use that computational processing power for something real, other than games.
Just kind of a silly metric to use for games.
 
To be fair in scenarios where AMD architecture can be more fully utilised, the Fury-X punches well above its weight for a 4gb card.
 
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